FAST EZ EFI/Multiport [Archive]

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GregWeld

05-18-2010, 09:19 AM

Many of you know that I started to freshen up my 427 small block (Dart Little M block)... mostly because of metal in the oil (looked like metalic paint! LOL). I decided to change up a few things while I was at it. #1 was to de-stroke it to a 406. I did this to get more piston compression height... get the pin out of the ring pack... and be able to use a normal base circle cam. It's a street HOT ROD motor.. no racing.. no tracking. I like to drive it long distance and wanted to get control of the oil etc.

I also run 8 stack EFI - Imagine Injection - Accel Gen 7 controller and dual sync distributor. I have never liked the dual sync distributor and have had two failures. So I wanted to "test" the new FAST EZ EFI Multiport system.

Yesterday we did the engine dyno. I wanted to see if the EZ EFI would really work as promised before yarding out the Accel from the car. Easier to run this on the dyno - than do all the work in the car and not be happy with it!

I can't tell you how amazed I am at how easy this system was to use... and how well it worked! The system uses NO CAM SIGNAL... so a normal distributor is all that is required. A real plus in my book! The kit comes with a hand held controller/programmer (no computer required! - another plus) and you simply answer some questions - it toggles you through and they are super easy simple questions. Once you answer those - you fire off the motor. In my case - all that was required was to sync up the 8 stacks using the manometer (a vacuum gauge that sits on each stack to measure flow). And dial in the timing. DONE.

Within minutes (5) you could watch the A/F ratios come into line. As they did and we ran the motor at various rpms and loads - they came in faster and closer to the targets. I used the default A/Fs in the ECM and never touched them. There was no need to. Only changes we made was to bump the fuel pressure and the timing. In my case - 33* total made better power than going to 36*.

One thing I did which I think was a MAJOR improvement - was to use INGLESE'S 8 stack intake. I swapped over my billet throttle bodies from Imagine Injection to their (Inglese) new intake. This intake has a large, built in, plenum. It uses vacuum from each intake runner to create a nice place
for getting your vacuum signal. My cam is only making 12 inches... but the signal is steady eddy... and the large volume of this common plenum allows me to run a PCV valve. Something that is much needed on a street motor! Can't tell you how nice this intake is! Casting quality is perfect. No parting lines - no pits - it really is a quality piece.

So back to the EZ EFI....

This system - the MULTIPORT (can be used for up to 1000 HP and 85# injectors) - is batch fired (thus the elimination of the cam sync) and DOES NOT control spark timing. I was worried a little about that... but not anymore! It does require a CLEAN signal from a tach source - the tach output on a MSD is the perfect source for that.

In the end - within 45 minutes - and the A/F's dialed in (as it self taught it's VE's - we did NOTHING)... I pulled multiple runs (6 or 7) and each pull added one or two Tq numbers and HP numbers but the graphs were overlaid so closely that the only way to see the difference was that the screen blinked the latest pull! Amazing - totally duplicated pulls... not a single waver - just linear power.

This motor is using a Crane roller cam --

230*/236* (292*/298* advertised) - .365 lift at cam - .548 with 1.5 rocker (I'm running 1.6's - so it's .584)

Crane part # 11HR00195 -- Grind # HR-230/365-2S1-12IG (part number not found using search on their website - custom grind)
With cast iron distributor drive gear.
Cam is a custom grind - with 112* LSA (better vacuum)
Spring pressure is 125 closed - 350 open
Cam rated at 2800 RPM to 6100 with 6700 RPM valve float
Advertised duration is 292*/298*

4.155 bore
3.750 forged 4340 fordged crank with Honda rod journals
Mahle Pistons .005 in the hole - Giving a 10.8 static compression
Dart Pro 1 - 180 cc aluminum heads (small heads make for great throttle response and bottom end torque)

The dyno was a break in (not really needed) and a "test and tune" to make sure the EZ EFI / Intake combo delivered. We did not make enough pulls to really max the HP and TQ numbers... that wasn't the point of the dyno so the numbers can, and should, get slightly better - or move up or down the RPM scale when the ECU reaches it's peak potential. The TQ number was made with a fairly LEAN 13.24 A/F (this should improve to a 12.8ish number as it learns).

550.0 TQ @ 4600 RPMS
525.4 HP @ 5600 RPMS

AVERAGE TQ from 3900 to 6000 - 515.75
" HP " " " - 483.51

Not a bad little hot rod motor.... :cheers: :woot:

ccracin

05-18-2010, 09:34 AM

That is outstanding in my book Greg. I am really happy to hear that as we will be using the EZ-EFI on our project. Can't wait to hear your feedback when you get to drive it. Keep us posted. :thumbsup:

I must be tired, not one off color comment in this whole post!

youthpastor

05-18-2010, 10:15 AM

WOW! that is some good numbers that will make for a fun street car. Glad to hear the EZ EFI worked out- Chris

GregWeld

05-18-2010, 11:00 AM

Thanks Chris! I'm thrilled -- really!

Here's a couple of pic of it on the dyno:

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/406%20on%20the%20dyno/IMG_1714.jpg

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/406%20on%20the%20dyno/IMG_1712.jpg

zcrz

05-18-2010, 03:16 PM

looks sweet, glad the EZ EFI was so EZ, I am SO ready to pull the trigger on the regular kit....good luck

GregWeld

05-18-2010, 04:52 PM

zc --

All my doubts have been erased... never in my wildest imagination did I really believe it was going to run this fine that quick...

I've spent THOUSANDS of dollars on EFI stuff and TUNERS.... NEVER AGAIN... The ECM / harness set me back a lousy $900.... bingo -- done.:woot:

waynieZ

05-18-2010, 08:47 PM

I'm glad to hear it works so well for you Greg. When I fired up the computer I was wondering how you were making out with your motor. I'm glad it is good news.

GregWeld

05-18-2010, 08:53 PM

I'm glad to hear it works so well for you Greg. When I fired up the computer I was wondering how you were making out with your motor. I'm glad it is good news.

I couldn't be happier Wayne! Never did any motor that was as easy as this - with spectacular results. I've owned a lot of hot rods and lots of motors (hell - still do! LOL) but I've never had a motor that was this CRISP and with this kind of throttle response. Just amazing... and it took like an hour -- not a whole day and multiple "do overs and cold starts tunes" etc.

Impressive stuff - really impressive.
:thumbsup:

67ragtp

05-19-2010, 04:17 AM

Greg,
The stacks look awesome!, glad to hear it was a success. It amazes me that it can be done with a simple msd distributor and only a tach signal. Great job!
Curious what fuel pressure you ended up at? 44psi? vacuum referenced?

Rich

GregWeld

05-19-2010, 07:06 AM

Rich --

We started with 43 #'s which is what all (I should say the "standard") injectors are "rated" at. We couldn't get past a lean spot in the middle of the RPM band so dialed it up to 45#'s and that "fixed" it.

YES - the fuel pressure regulator is vacuum referenced. SO we set the FP without the engine running (or you just disconnect the vac line) and then we didn't have to deal with a vacuum leak - even momentary - during the ECU's learning curve.

I'm using 36 # injectors...

One thing Tom Nelson and I discussed during my visit to his shop (way fun) was how LEAN the 8 stacks tend to go when you crack them open. Makes sense to me - given the area of the butterfly - and it's direct runner to the cylinder. It's what gives these systems their instantaneous throttle response.

Tom has a video posted of his 406 - 8 stack efi motor on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT6Wa5A68bQ

Unfortunately (for me) I planned to video my dyno time with my new little GoPro HD camera - but due to operator error... (and poor planning) I got lots of video of setting up the motor - and all the banter etc - and not one single second of the motor running! DOH! But I can tell you - that with this EZ EFI - my motor is batch fired (bank to bank) and sounds every bit as crisp and with every bit as quick of throttle response as his motor sounds. I'm running smaller heads so don't have the top HP numbers (it runs out of air flow at 6000 RPMS and the numbers clearly show that). But my motor made more 30#'s more TQ and only missed his 530 HP number by 4.6 HP.... :rofl:

Pantera EFI

05-19-2010, 10:13 AM

Hi Greg, this is what I do for Bob Ream, I fire the fuel injector ONCE per cycle.

NOT TRUE "need to batch fire without a CAS".

What I do with my EMS is to set it to fire the injector ONLY ONCE per cycle.
I also set the #1 cylinder's firing time to 450 degrees.

This can be quite simple for the "EZ's" eight channels of fuel, just wire the # 1 cylinder channel to #5, then go through the firing order.

What you will observe is a SMOOTH idle, much better throttle response, and a GREAT increase in millage.

Lance

GregWeld

05-19-2010, 10:16 AM

SO.... could I send the ECM to you to have this done??

If so... PM me please.

GregWeld

05-19-2010, 10:17 AM

Lance --

Is the brain box called an ECU - an ECM or an EMS.... or can it be called anything you want to?

I just call it -- Smarter than a Carburetor... :rofl:

waynieZ

05-19-2010, 10:18 AM

Greg any time table for installing the engine and the first drive or are you doing more to the car?

GregWeld

05-19-2010, 11:14 AM

I have to first UNinstall the Accel Gen 7 stuff... and I also have a new AutoRad core support and radiator/condenser... other than that... it's a simple install.

I tore all the sheetmetal off the front end - so it will be a pretty easy install and wire job (has to be hidden).

Unfortunately - I also am moving my daughter to Scottsdale to start at ASU... and I'm driving her down (taking her Mustang down in the trailer)... so there goes a week.... But I hope to have it all wrapped up by June 15th or so. Gwen is headed for Europe for a couple of weeks - Adrienne will be "gone" and I'll be home all alone...... :_paranoid :rolleyes: Should be able to get some serious work done then... ya think?

waynieZ

05-19-2010, 01:28 PM

Sounds like a plan! As long as you don't end up like that kid from the movie. lol

GregWeld

05-19-2010, 01:38 PM

Too late! Been there - done that!

Home Alone 2 this time around!

LOL

GregWeld

05-19-2010, 05:01 PM

Here's the dyno sheet from one pull...

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/406%20on%20the%20dyno/406dyno.jpg

Pantera EFI

05-22-2010, 09:32 AM

Hi Greg, I would be able to help when your are ready.

I could ask Brian Macy to send you a calibration file ?

Lance

Josh69

05-25-2010, 11:22 AM

Awesome! I wish I hadn't spent so much on other stuff I sorta needed...I'm looking forward to EFI eventually!

g356gear

05-25-2010, 03:37 PM

Greg,
Did you get yours from Prodigy and the group buy?

GregWeld

05-25-2010, 04:02 PM

I tried to do that - and put an order in with Frank - but it was going slowly (for me) and I needed to get one ASAP -- so had to get it from my local parts supplier... I just couldn't wait.

g356gear

05-28-2010, 07:08 AM

I tried to do that - and put an order in with Frank - but it was going slowly (for me) and I needed to get one ASAP -- so had to get it from my local parts supplier... I just couldn't wait.

Pretty sure that GB is dead anyhow. It's been 3 months.

supremeefi

06-02-2010, 06:30 PM

Glad to hear about the EZ EFI but in all honesty you're not really comparing apples to apples, you changed the manifold in between.

I'm an Accel dealer and tuner, I did their How To DVD. I've done a bunch of eight stacks and believe me they differ.

Remember these "learning" systems don't have a floor or ceiling meaning they'll keep adding fuel if they detect a lean condition due to an exhaust leak or other. It'll be interesting to see how it actually drives as well.

waynieZ

06-21-2010, 12:01 PM

Hi Greg any updates?

GregWeld

06-21-2010, 01:59 PM

Wayne ---

Running the new EZ EFI on the dyno --- with the new motor - was the best dyno time I've ever had.... WHY?? Because it was so EZ.... which made it F U N !!

Motor and trans are back in the Nomad -- but I've also changed out all the engine wiring - due to the computer change.... and I also have a new radiator and core support from AutoRad. SO there's some work and some changes that are being made other than the EFI.

I just this last week mocked up the core support/radiator... so I can mount P/S reservoir and overflow tanks - check all the fan wiring runs and modify them etc...

waynieZ

06-21-2010, 04:54 PM

Progress is a good thing!!

Revved

06-29-2010, 05:18 PM

We just did our first EZ EFI install here a few weeks back on a 410ci -351W stroker with a DC&O manifold- waiting on finishing up some suspension work on it before putting through major driving but I was amazed how quickly it picked up on self tuning in the limited driving I did. Within about 50 miles it had worked out low to mid throttle accels on 1-4th up to about 65-70 mph and WOT sounded dead crisp the two times I floored it from a stop just to see how it behaved. On first startup it cleaned up the idle within about 2-3 min and starts up every single time with a turn of the key. I'm pretty impressed so far.

We've been using the XFI for the last couple years on a lot of cars but for street driven N/A stuff its overkill. I'm really excited about the EZ EFI for my street driver clients.

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/RevvedAC/Rockstar/Fuellines3.jpg

GregWeld

06-29-2010, 06:04 PM

Hi Greg any updates?

Not going to bother with the HASSLE of loading this on Photobucket --- but here's the new 406 (old 427) hanging and ready to slip in... This was a couple of weeks ago but thought I'd post it up anyway.

waynieZ

07-27-2010, 07:42 PM

GregWeld

07-27-2010, 08:08 PM

How's it going Greg? It looks sweet sitting in there.I wish I was closer so I could go see you car in person. I like that sling you have for the engine. I have a load leveler to try on mine when I get it back. Keep us posted on your progress.

I have a couple (like half a dozen) different engine lift accessories... the old static bolt in place of the carb on an intake... and one that has a big azz screw for raising or lowering the tail... and another real handy version that does that but again - bolts onto the intake... BUT -- always a big butt -- this sling is perfect for a application like mine where I want to stick it in with the intake installed -- or my brother in laws blower motor etc.

I wish you were closer so you could come over and help me when I need it! :rofl:

The motor combo -- is better than fantastic... and we all know it's all about the combo! This combo is big bore (4.155) - stroke - 3.750.... and small heads that flow well (Dart Pro 1 180's) and a cam that has real decent lift with a spread out LSA (114*'s if I remember the number)... for good idle and vacuum signal.

The EZ EFI is the best thing I've done to the car - and for me PERSONALLY - in the (to use AL's kind of statements) history of mankind! The car starts instantly - hot or cold - idles rock solid - as in - the tach does not move... (18* initial timing @ 900 rpms). It has INSANE throttle response... huge torque that is right off idle... and pulls like a freight train to redline (6200ish is my shift point in the 700r4 so set redline at 7000 in the ecu just for protection of the engine - it never hits that).

I left the A/F ratios at the factory defaults - 13.5 idle - 14. cruise - 12.8 WOT. This is running 36lb injectors and 45 PSI on a vacuum referenced regulator. Today I set the idle A/F at 13.8 and it responded with a slightly crisper note and a little higher rpm. Trust me when I say this thing is a window rattler... yet drives so docile. I'll have to post up a video using the Go Pro...

After all of this -- when I go out for a drive... I don't want to stop. It runs so damn well - and the drivability is just flawless. In 10 years of EFI - I've never had a motor run so well. Period. The key is good solid vacuum signal for the MAP sensor - a good CLEAN tach signal from an MSD type output - and the ECU MUST BE wired directly to the battery with the proper gauge wiring... plug the rest in and go!

EEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:

Vegas69

07-27-2010, 08:24 PM

So, you're happy?

GregWeld

07-27-2010, 08:32 PM

To steal Al Morenos style of statements...

Happy... is not a big enough word to describe how I feel about this new set up.

It's the best damn thing in the whole wide universe and maybe even the galaxy!!

BBC71Nova

07-27-2010, 08:37 PM

Vegas69

07-27-2010, 08:37 PM

I was kidding!:unibrow:

GregWeld

07-27-2010, 08:38 PM

I was kidding!:unibrow:

I wasn't...:D

GregWeld

07-27-2010, 08:46 PM

Even better than twin pops and sliced bread?

I've been digging that FAST EZ Efi setup for the FFR as well. Heard a lot of good things about it and it seems reasonably affordable as far as EFI goes.

John

John ---

I only used the ECU and the wiring harness they sell for "multiport" systems. I didn't use any of their fuel pumps or their throttle body etc - since I have a combo of "parts" for my 8 stack.

I'm now using an intake from INGLESE - which is based on Webber IDA's - but they've cast in a large common plenum in the valley. I'm using Imagine Injection billet throttle bodies... and then the FAST EZ EFI as I said.

For me -- it was like going from a Windows based computer to the Apple. You buy an Apple - you open it up - turn it on and use it. You never care about the settings etc because you never have to know about them. Now -- WINDOWS on the other hand - you have to know all the little secret boxes to check (or uncheck) and where all those little windows are - and you have to know or understand all manor of computerese.... SO the Accel Gen 7 is like the window crap -- you need an expert and a dyno - and you better know what you're doing... and it's going to take multiple days/trips to get it right. The FAST EZ EFI -- is a 20 minute wonder - you plug it in - answer the questions - start it up and go for a nice drive. When you get home you're all done and have a smile from ear to ear. Simple. Done. Happy.

waynieZ

07-28-2010, 08:43 AM

Come on Greg don't hold back let us know how you really feel ! lol I'm glad you are having good luck with it . Its always nice when something works as advertised.

66 II

08-26-2010, 06:47 PM

camcojb

08-26-2010, 07:32 PM

GregWeld

08-26-2010, 08:01 PM

GregWeld,

I am looking for information on how the eight stack works without an IAC valve (new to fuel injection). How is idle quality and how does the engine react when the AC is switched on?

I saw your post on FAST where you described a problem you were experiencing recently and you mentioned not having an IAC. The FAST tech seemed confused (I assume these are the same folks giving tech support for the Inglese system with the FAST controller...)

Thanks!
Todd

Todd,

I don't have an IAC - don't need it. Motor was built with EFI in mind - to wit - we did a custom Crane cam with a wide LSA (114* I think) to get some vacuum and smooth the idle a bit. Another thing with 8 stacks that people don't understand is that you have ZERO "reversion" (pulses inside a normal open/common plenum manifold)... so an 8 stack will "eat" a bigger cam and tame it a bit.

The problem I was experiencing was I couldn't get it to idle down.... and this was AFTER I had it running super! But it - as most of these things seem to be - was OPERATOR ERROR.... I had gotten the stacks out of sync! From side to side they were off.... IT was completely my fault. I had disconnected the side to side linkage - and adjusted the idle in the meantime - and then failed to reconnect the side to side linkage = and then the more I messed with it the worse it got! UNTIL -- in the middle of the night -- I had an AH HA moment! Re-sync'd the TB's --- with the manometer -- and all was smooth as glass once again.

NOW for your other questions RE: A/C -- This isn't much of a load on a motor that is making a bunch of TQ and idles at 950 rpms.... I also have a "loose" TQ converter... 2800 stall -- so when I drop in gear - there is no discernible RPM loss. This motor made an AVERAGE of 478 foot pounds of TQ from 3200 rpms to 6000... so I think that's why the load of the A/C compressor just isn't a factor. I also run electric fans so there's no load there either. I get a bigger rpm "reaction" when I turn the stereo on! I'm serious! That puts a momentary load on the high output alternator. I use a SPAL PWM fan controller - and that is designed to not turn the fans on when you switch the A/C on... it waits about 20 seconds or until the trinary switch reaches a preset head pressure. I think this also takes that A/C load off the motor... as most hammer the alternator with the fan load (radiator and the cooling speed fan).

I drove to Portland on Wednesday just because it was supposed to be 90+ degrees.... this EZ EFI works so dang well -- it's just amazing. This morning when I got up (down there) I decided to change the cruising A/F ratio from the 14:7 I was trying out -- trying to see how it'd run a bit "lean"... and simply plugged the little hand held in -- changed the cruise number and drove off.... The motor seems to "like" a bit fatter A/F and the torque seemed a bit flat with the 14:7 I tried on the way down. The beauty of this is that there are only 3 numbers -- Idle -- Cruise -- WOT. Just pick one -- and the rest is all done for you. No tables to mess with... nothing. GAWD -- the thing is so simple and it just works!

BTW -- My idle doesn't vary 25 rpms.... watching the dash tach -- it doesn't move. Watching the hand held programmer -- it varies 50 at most.

GregWeld

08-26-2010, 08:14 PM

Forgot to add some other detail info:

My intake manifold is the new INGLESE version that has a huge built in common plenum... The intake runners are individual - but they have a (approx) 1/2" hole leading to the common plenum (they would have little if any reversion thru these). The EZ EFI is also BATCH FIRED. It doesn't require the dual sync distributor (a HUGE PLUS IN MY BOOK)... it just runs a normal distributor... so once you set your timing - just like you would with a carb - you're done. That is assuming you know what you're doing -- and have the advance curve - initial timing - and total timing dialed in. We did this on the engine dyno before I stuck the motor in. Every motor is different -- but this one took 32* total to make best power.... normally I'd have been up at 36* and trying to go more... but the new heads etc just liked 32!

I really like this new manifold because it gives you a good vacuum source for PCV - or power brakes - and for the vac referenced regulator that is REQUIRED. 8 stacks are NOT good sources of vacuum.... since they normally lack the common plenum. If you don't have a common plenum you have to fab one up with some plumbing etc to get a signal from the individual stacks to a common source. That's usually "ugly" and just another source of leaks down the road etc. I really like this new intake! Super simple "fix" for a common (pun intended) problem. :woot:

66 II

08-27-2010, 05:30 AM

Thanks a ton for this info! I am saving this as a reference!

I really like the eight stack unit and since I am new to the FI world, wanted to start with the EZ kit. The car is still in progress but has electric fans as well with plans for PS, Hydroboost, and AC. The cam I am considering for the 406 is a Comp XFI grind with 113* LSA.

The fan controller makes sense to lessen the "shock" of the engine when the AC is powered. I will look into that as well.

Thanks again for the detailed reply!
Todd