DSE subframe

[XcYZ]

I'm changing my subframe, going with DSE. It's at Autokraft getting painted. I hope to pick it up Friday afternoon, schedule permitting.

I'll post more pics of my garage subframe swap as I move forward. :thumbsup:



So.... out with the old...

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_out_08.jpg

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_out_09.jpg

[96z28ss]

Wow, didn't think the front sheet metal would stay in place when the subframe was pulled.

[fesler]

cars are never done are they? you have a nice set up already why the change

[XcYZ]

Wow, didn't think the front sheet metal would stay in place when the subframe was pulled.

Yep, not a problem. :cheers:

[XcYZ]

cars are never done are they? you have a nice set up already why the change

lol, no, never done.

Why the change? Well, I was either going to sell my car and start a new project, or just update what I had into what I would have just build from scratch. :thumbsup:

[n2protour]

nice car, even the garage is nice :yes:

[67ragtp]

Scott - is that the height the car was at when the sub rolled out the bottom with the engine or did you pull the engine from the top first? Looks awesome, good luck with the new sub :thumbsup:

Rich

[XcYZ]

Scott - is that the height the car was at when the sub rolled out the bottom with the engine or did you pull the engine from the top first? Looks awesome, good luck with the new sub :thumbsup:

Rich

That's the height I needed to have the car to roll the complete subframe, motor, and trans out from underneath. I had some low profile casters for snowmobiles that worked perfect. With the casters, I only needed to have 30" from the ground to where the chin spoiler mounts to roll it out.

[boonedog]

was it just a stock subframe before?

[jy211]

wanna come over and help my garage look like yours? :D :thumbsup: :bow:

[HRBS]

That first pic is a screen savor now !
Scott... did you wear white gloves when working in there :lol:
Looks great..... cant wait to see the other "updates". :thumbsup:

[camcojb]

was it just a stock subframe before?
that is a 1 of 3 (I believe) that Wayne Due made to accept the DSE or other aftermarket parts. #2 is in my shop going in a friends Camaro. Neat idea and allows a big front wheel/tire combo and gives you a rack/coilovers/etc. but not as good as the DSE subframe.

Jody

[Rybar]

What would you build if you sold the car Scott?

Any reason for the frame change? Going to a wider front wheel/tire?

I think most of us on this site have a sickness (including myself) that we can't leave anything alone. :lol:

BTW, your garage looks killer :thumbsup:

[fleetus macmullitz]

It will be cool to read your feedback Scott, on the difference in ride and handling the DSE subframe adds to an already well executed completed build.

[tones2SS]

Very nice Scott. Making a really nice car even nicer and more nimble at that.
Nice pics, by the way!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Reckley]

Very cool scott. Good call going with the DSE frame.

Will you have any issues with the placement of the engine and how the headers and trans crossmember fit?

Mike

[Vince@Meanstreets]

good luck with the change Scott, I still remember talking with Wayne about that frame at the SEMA dinner. Wow, its been a while.

Are you going to sell it or find another car to put it under? You know you want to. LOL

If you weren't so far I'd offer to buy it.

What valve covers are you running?

Vince

[lil427z]

scott what # is your new ft clip.
rick k:thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

You won't regret that change, but why in the Summer!?

[nvr2fst]

You won't regret that change, but why in the Summer!?

Todd maybe Scott still have snow so its a winter project LOL
Or maybe he needed to put a little dirt on the new floor.

Nice move Scott, hope you have it done for the Dells show. See you there.

[Samhatco]

Ummm.... nurse, forceps please. That the cleanest garage I've ever seen. This is going to be fun to watch. It already has been with the previous version(s).

Sam

[Scorpner]

That's the cleanest swap I think I have ever seen. I look forward to seeing the new subframe.

[Vegas69]

It's already in the 80's here, I guess it's not Summer yet. :_paranoid :lol:

[XcYZ]

wanna come over and help my garage look like yours? :D :thumbsup: :bow:

Man, that was A LOT of work. I don't know that I want to do it again. :lol:



It will be cool to read your feedback Scott, on the difference in ride and handling the DSE subframe adds to an already well executed completed build.

Thanks Skip. I'm looking forward to getting it on the road. I put 7,300 miles on the other subframe, so I have a good feel on how its mannerisms. I'll definitely post up some feedback.


Very cool scott. Good call going with the DSE frame.

Will you have any issues with the placement of the engine and how the headers and trans crossmember fit?

Mike

Headers are going to be the big question mark. I believe everything else will fit just fine.


good luck with the change Scott, I still remember talking with Wayne about that frame at the SEMA dinner. Wow, its been a while.

Are you going to sell it or find another car to put it under? You know you want to. LOL

If you weren't so far I'd offer to buy it.

What valve covers are you running?

Vince

Thanks Vince. I think it was a good concept, it filled a void in the aftermarket subframe offerings. Not sure what I'm going to do with it just yet.

The valve covers are carbon fiber, from Carbon Fiber Valve Covers.com of all places. :D

[XcYZ]

scott what # is your new ft clip.
rick k:thumbsup:

I'll have to get back to you, it's at Autokraft getting painted.


You won't regret that change, but why in the Summer!?

Well, they've been on back order for quite a while. I was hoping to have it ready for the Faceoff at RA, but it just didn't work out.


Todd maybe Scott still have snow so its a winter project LOL
Or maybe he needed to put a little dirt on the new floor.

Nice move Scott, hope you have it done for the Dells show. See you there.

Thanks Dave. What do you mean snow? I live tropical SOUTHERN Minnesota. :rofl:

See you in a few weeks. :cheers:

[Stuart Adams]

Going to be cool good buddy.

[jy211]

Man, that was A LOT of work. I don't know that I want to do it again. :lol:

I'll ask again come mid-December...:rofl:

[g356gear]

What did you coat your floor with...looks great! Beautiful car btw.

[XcYZ]

Going to be cool good buddy.

You know it! :cheers:



I'll ask again come mid-December...:rofl:

lol Well, that's true, not much to do around here that time of year.



What did you coat your floor with...looks great! Beautiful car btw.

It's 100% solids based epoxy from Wolverine Coatings. More info here:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=22182

[g356gear]

It's 100% solids based epoxy from Wolverine Coatings. More info here:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=22182

Do you find it holding up? I used PPG Epoxy and I have hot lifting from the tires on my wifes sport utility. Cant seem to handle a jack without scratching either.

I saw your subframe and rotors sitting right on the floor and had to ask.

[XcYZ]

The rotors aren't on the ground, there's a set of low profile casters under the lower control arms and also under the legs of the subframe. You can see an extra set of caster sitting on top of the left frame leg in the 2nd pic. They're just hard to see under the control arms in the pics. :cheers:

It's holding up great, zero issues. I'm very happy with it.




scott what # is your new ft clip.
rick k:thumbsup:

#437

[fleetus macmullitz]

Very nice Scott. Making a really nice car even nicer and more nimble at that.
Nice pics, by the way!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

Scott, you may not know this, but Tony is the New England DSE rep. (no official announcement yet though).

Part of his service is to autograph all sub-frames.

Expect a visit.


:D

[tones2SS]

Scott, you may not know this, but Tony is the New England DSE rep. (no official announcement yet though).

Part of his service is to autograph all sub-frames.

Expect a visit.


:D

lolllllllll.......:rofl: :willy:
Will be following the build Scott. Car is really nice. Your garage looks nice and clean!:thumbsup:

[lil427z]

dse , they have sold a lot of ft clips. the one that i bought is #14.
rick k:thumbsup:

[brans72]

I bet $ you could sell your old sub frame on here, looks to be a nice piece.

[XcYZ]

dse , they have sold a lot of ft clips. the one that i bought is #14.
rick k:thumbsup:

That's a lot of frames. Hmmm, I wonder where #69 is. :D



Kurt worked well into the evening tonight getting the frame and associated parts painted. Kurt, you are the man! :bow:

Heading to Autokraft first thing Friday morning to pick it up.


http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_painted.JPG

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_painted_2.JPG

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_painted_3.JPG

[Stuart Adams]

#69 :unibrow: :unibrow:

Looking great Scott.

[syborg tt]

yahoo !!!!

[rwhite692]

Looks sweet. I see you cleaned up the pool of anti-freeze, LOL~!

[lil427z]

dse ft clip is / looks first class.
rick k:lateral: :cheers: :woot:

[Van B]

If you are thinking of selling the Wayne Due, let me know. It would be an upgrade to my stock one with DSE coil over conversion and I am close enough to come and pick it up.

[tones2SS]

Looks awesome Scott. Keep us posted please!:thumbsup:

[Chicken Louie]

Scott

What was the product that Kurt used to spray your subframe?

[Jay Hilliard]

Looks good Scott! Why paint over powedercoating? Just curious.

[Autokraft]

Scott

What was the product that Kurt used to spray your subframe?

DBC basecoat with 2060 Flex "n" flat clear:thumbsup:

[Autokraft]

Looks good Scott! Why paint over powedercoating? Just curious.

Jay, our local powder coater does not have the clear finish we usually use on chassis parts. Its more of an eggshell finish, it has a nice sheen to it.:D

[DFRESH]

Looks great Scott---you stuff always has though. Really looking forward to hearing the feedback once you get it going. Kurt sure does amazing work--you are fortunate to be so close to someone as gifted as his shop is. Please keep the photos coming--

Doug

[Cris@JCG]

Scott- Don't know what I should be drooling over the 69 or your garage! LOL
Can't wait to see the upgrades on the 69.. Have parts ready to ship to you on Monday.. :thumbsup:

[CrossRamRich]

Wow! thats a nice piece. I dont understand the need for change. Did it fall short somewhere?

[kwhizz]

Scott...................I'll come up and help you put the car back together "And" get that garage whipped into real garage shape...........LOL:thumbsup: Great Job!!

Ken

[Autokraft]

DCU 2060 is a great product. I use it on all my restoration projects and anything I want to have that OEM satin look. Looks great Kurt. :thumbsup:

Ya thanks Jay. I sure wouldn't mind hanging out in your garage sometime, love all the work you have done on your car so far.:thumbsup:

[XcYZ]

Some random pics of it going together...


I think I need a bigger shop. lol

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_100.jpg

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_101.jpg

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_102.jpg

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_103.jpg

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_104.jpg

[Ricochet]

Looks great Scott!! :thumbsup: As always - nice paint work Kurt!

[Steve1968LS2]

Might need to re-run you in f-body garage..

[Autokraft]

Hey Scott you need a new seal on the bottom of your garage door. Give Travis a call. LOL...:D

[XcYZ]

Might need to re-run you in f-body garage..

Sweet. :cheers:



Hey Scott you need a new seal on the bottom of your garage door. Give Travis a call. LOL...:D

I know. lol That happened this winter, had some refreeze at the threshold and part of the seal was froze to the ground when I opened the door.

[Rick D]

Man Scott that looks soo NICE wish I was at that point. :bow:

[itsals1]

Scott, lets get a new door in and I'll bring Kurt, some :cheers: and we'll break in the car, garage,door, and that carbon fiber pole you mentioned?:lol:

Travis

[89 RS]

That all looks awesome Scott. The parts -including the paint, the Camaro (of course), the garage, and the camera shots. Look forward to seeing more when you get done.

[awr68]

Nice work guys!
Scott, what mods will need done to connect the new DSE frame to the SFC's? Is that the same color as the WD frame?

[waynieZ]

The frame looks awesome. Your making some nice progress.

[Rybar]

I think the pictures you take look unreal. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Scott --

Are you going to go crazy when / if the car drives exactly the same?

I wouldn't be able to sleep -- wondering if I was doing all of this and I wouldn't be able to tell...
:woot:

[XcYZ]

Thanks guys. It's coming along. :cheers:



Nice work guys!
Scott, what mods will need done to connect the new DSE frame to the SFC's? Is that the same color as the WD frame?

I'm going to bolt it to the DSE subframe connectors. Before I started assembling the subframe, I installed it bare in the car to see how everything, including the SFC's were going to work. It's a lighter shade of grey than before. Light grey or dark silver.



I think the pictures you take look unreal. :thumbsup:

Thanks Ryan. The wide angle lens makes for interesting shots I think.



Scott --

Are you going to go crazy when / if the car drives exactly the same?

I wouldn't be able to sleep -- wondering if I was doing all of this and I wouldn't be able to tell...
:woot:

I have no doubt that it's going to be a serious improvement. :cheers:

[tones2SS]

WOW!!!
Looks great Scott. Nice shop as well. Neat and clean.:thumbsup: :cheers:

[XcYZ]

Made good progress over the weekend. Got the motor and trans swapped over to the DSE subframe and got the PS and hydroboost lines dialed in. The left header fit perfect, the right header needed to be massaged. The weld where the #8 primary attached to the collector stuck out about .250" too far, so I used a press to persuade that area.

I decided to just leave the motor and trans in the subframe and lift it back into the car. Those snowmobile dollies work awesome for rolling it back under the car. I had a neighbor help me guide it into place and square it up.

The steering shaft is in, the driveshaft is in, all electrical connections are done... all I have left is to make the subframe/SFC plates, make a bracket for the lower mount for the dry sump, and flare and connect the brake line from the MC to the frame... add some fluids, bleed the brakes, and off to get an alignment.


http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_106.jpg

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_107.jpg

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_108.jpg



And it's a car again. I should have it back on all for wheels tomorrow night.

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_109.jpg

[camcojb]

congrats Scott. :thumbsup:

Jody

[XcYZ]

congrats Scott. :thumbsup:

Jody

Thanks Jody. It was a thrash, but it was fun.

[GregWeld]

Seriously! That's a bunch of work you got done right there! WOW!

Hey -- If I'd have done this on a floor like that... it would have been gouged... corroded... discolored...

I'm impressed!

[Vegas69]

Not sure what to applaud you on, the car or the photography. :rofl:

[XcYZ]

Seriously! That's a bunch of work you got done right there! WOW!

Hey -- If I'd have done this on a floor like that... it would have been gouged... corroded... discolored...

I'm impressed!

Thanks Greg! It was a pretty big job, but I got as far as I had hope by the end of the weekend. :cheers:




Not sure what to applaud you on, the car or the photography. :rofl:

Lol, thanks Todd. The wide angle lens make everything look cool. :D I just push the button. :lol:

[Payton King]

Took me a couple of hours just to measure my rear and you are swapping in a subframe.

Looks good

[syborg tt]

LOL - You are one crazy Mo-Fo

Kudo's to you for doing a subframe swap in such a short period of time.

Okay so how many hours total in the swap ???

[Ron in SoCal]

Snowmobile Dollies? There's an advantage to living in Minnesota right there...:yes:

[tones2SS]

Kudo's to you for doing a subframe swap in such a short period of time.

Okay so how many hours total in the swap ???

That's what I was thinking as well Marty. That was quick!!
Good job Scott.:thumbsup:

[68/Camaro]

Scott,
Awesome job in a short time! :thumbsup: BTW your garage is way to clean its like a living room!

[Ricochet]

Looks killer Scott!! No doubt you worked your butt off this past weekend. I agree - your photography ain't bad either! :rofl: (And yes - I'm still jealous of your garage!)

[Rybar]

Im jealous of Scott's garage, car, subframe, motor, camera, photograhy skills and like Greg said cleanliness while working :lol:

Looks Killer Scott, nice job :thumbsup:

[Vegas69]

I only see one thing out of place. I'd adjust that garage door chain. :unibrow:

[BillyBobL71]

Scott,

I'm curious, where the recessed area is in the subframe for the front oil drain plug, do you have enough room to remove/install?

Thanks,
Bill

[awr68]

Looks great! :thumbsup:

[65 347]

I think it was all stagged, I don't see any tools on the floor or mess anywhere.

Looks great! Good job getting done so quick.

[XcYZ]

All that's left is an alignment (and set ride height). Got it running tonight and drove it around the block.

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_110.jpg

[GregWeld]

Can you fix that glare off the floor??

:rofl:

[XcYZ]

LOL - You are one crazy Mo-Fo

Kudo's to you for doing a subframe swap in such a short period of time.

Okay so how many hours total in the swap ???

I'm guessing I have a solid 45 hours in it total since Friday afternoon. Quite a few of the little things took a lot longer than I expected, but isn't that typical. lol



Snowmobile Dollies? There's an advantage to living in Minnesota right there...:yes:

That and free air conditioning in January. :lol:



Im jealous of Scott's garage...

Yeah, but do you remember what a crap hole it was when I was building my car? lol It was truly a man cave. lol



I only see one thing out of place. I'd adjust that garage door chain. :unibrow:

That and the ceiling outlet and cover needs to be switched to grey. The car was on jackstands pretty close to it and I just didn't feel like using a screwdriver over my head anywhere near the car. :D



Scott,

I'm curious, where the recessed area is in the subframe for the front oil drain plug, do you have enough room to remove/install?

Thanks,
Bill

No, you cannot use the front drain plug, it's noted in the DSE documentation. There's a provision in the frame for clearance though. You just use the side drain plug.



I think it was all stagged, I don't see any tools on the floor or mess anywhere.

Looks great! Good job getting done so quick.

The countertop was FULL of tools and crap. All 30 feet of it. :D

[XcYZ]

Can you fix that glare off the floor??

:rofl:

:lol: The floor held up awesome. I did some grinding, welding, steel wheels, dollies, floor jacks, jackstands... and there's only a few scuffs. I'm happy. :cheers:

[coolwelder62]

Scott did I see a run in the paint on the sub frame, or was it just the glair off the floor.Looks great . Did you do all this work in your garage in were the shot's taken in your kitchen.Scott:thumbsup: :lol:

[XcYZ]

Compare/contrast... Kinda cool I thought...

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_out_09.jpg

http://lateral-g.org/temp/frame_swap_111.jpg

[waynieZ]

You could tell me you were putting either one in and I would be impressed with the up grade over stock. Very nice.

[wrighton]

So Scott, first off very nice. what to start with first. Car?Garage?Subframe?Job well done?

I vote for all of the above.

I also am curious, anybody in line to purchase the other subframe?

Thanks for posting up the pictures.

Brian

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I think he's gonna donate it to the US pro-touring national museum to be displayed in the milestone wing.


vince

[tones2SS]

That looks awesome Scott.:thumbsup:
Thanks for the before/after shots of the sub frame. Big difference. ENJOY!!!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Stuart Adams]

Got er lined up and ready to go yet?

[Spiffav8]

Got er lined up and ready to go yet?

I was just wondering the same thing.

[67ragtp]

Scott,

Im curious, if you used DSE body bushings with the new sub, did your core support bushings fit in with out having to machine them down(height) a bit? Some have trouble when the four rear bushings sit flush the fronts really sit high jacking up the core support tweaking the fenders.

Rich

[XcYZ]

I'm going to get it aligned this weekend. My friend and I couldn't get our schedules to work during the week, too many kids' activities. lol



Scott,

Im curious, if you used DSE body bushings with the new sub, did your core support bushings fit in with out having to machine them down(height) a bit? Some have trouble when the four rear bushings sit flush the fronts really sit high jacking up the core support tweaking the fenders.

Rich

I did a test fit with the bare frame before I started assemblying it and it fit fine.

[Scorpner]

That was quick. :wow:

Good job on the swap! :thumbsup:

[XcYZ]

Thanks Terry. I busted ass on the swap. :cheers:

[Steve1968LS2]

Look great!!

Hey, those hoses look familiar.. are those the ones I found eons ago for my LS install?

Fit great don't they?


Car really looks great Scott and you did that swap in record setting time.

[BillyBobL71]

Scott,

Is it necessary to have a valve cover oil fill on your dry sump? Couldn't you fill through the reservoir?

Nice Garage Mahal by the way!

Bill

[XcYZ]

Look great!!

Hey, those hoses look familiar.. are those the ones I found eons ago for my LS install?

Fit great don't they?

Car really looks great Scott and you did that swap in record setting time.

Thanks Steve. Yep, the hoses fit great!



Scott,

Is it necessary to have a valve cover oil fill on your dry sump? Couldn't you fill through the reservoir?

Nice Garage Mahal by the way!

Bill

No, I don't need a oil fill on the valve cover, but that's how they came.

Thanks!

[fleetus macmullitz]

How's the project coming Scott?

[XcYZ]

I've been waiting to get some seat time in the car before commenting on the upgrade. I put about 400 miles on over the last week and I couldn't be happier. I went with DSE's suggested alignment specs of .5* camber and 5.0* caster. They recommend 0* toe, but we put .1* toe in it.

Using DSE's double adjustable shocks and their baseline compression and rebound settings, I felt the front was disproportionately stiffer than the rear. I went 4 clicks out on both the compression and rebound and now the car feels very well balanced for street and highway driving. Of course, some of that may be due to the fact the the rear has 7300 miles on it and the front is brand new. Time will tell, but it makes me consider upgrading the rear shocks to double adjustables as well.

I'll come right out and say that it's a HUGE improvement over the WD subframe... but how do I quantify it? It's hard to explain seat of the pants feel, turn-in, precision, predictability, and confidence. The old subframe drove nice and was fun to drive - I don't regret going that direction at the time. The new setup, however, is definitely on a different level. Obviously I haven't had a chance to drive it competitively yet, but I've taken liberty of some 'spirited' driving at low speeds as well as high speeds. It's so predictable, it's amazing how much more confidence I have in the car now. I've never driven a car that feels that connected to the road.

There are no quirks, there aren't any personality characteristics, it's simply all business and dialed in.

[GregWeld]

Great post Scott!

I would never have thought that a change like this would be so 'noticeable'. I would, if you were going from stock to a good sub frame - but from one aftermarket sub to another I wouldn't have thought it was such a big change.

That makes it all worthwhile, 'cause this is not that simple of a swap on a "done" build.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA! :cheers:

[XcYZ]

Thanks Greg. I wouldn't call it revolutionary, but more evolutionary. It was nice with the WD, but the DSE takes it up several notches in every aspect and it's evident in how it drives and rides. I'm VERY happy, it really did surpass my expectations.

Again, it's hard to quantify from behind a keyboard. Stop over to MN and I'll give you a ride. Hell, you can drive it. :cheers:

[GregWeld]

My flight arrives at 3:30 this afternoon. Can you pick me up at the airport? :rofl:

[fleetus macmullitz]

I'm VERY happy, it really did surpass my expectations.

That's all good Scott, but how bout the important stuff...

Did your wife and kids give it the thumbs up?


:D

[jvike]

Love this thread Scott. Very nice work and I love the fact that the car evolve. :lateral:

[tones2SS]

Good deal Scott. Glad you like it.
It is DSE after all!! ENJOY!:thumbsup: :cheers:

[Stuart Adams]

That's awesome big guy.

[JamesJ]

I went with DSE's suggested alignment specs of .5* camber and 5.0* caster. They recommend 0* toe, but we put .1* toe in it.

Using DSE's double adjustable shocks and their baseline compression and rebound settings, I felt the front was disproportionately stiffer than the rear. I went 4 clicks out on both the compression and rebound and now the car feels very well balanced for street and highway driving..

Do you remember what the factory shock setting was?

[69pro-touring]

Didn't get my new subframe powdercoated, looking at different options for painting it. Wondering how your ppg has held up on yours?

[NAPA 68]

That is some killer work!:hail:

[XcYZ]

Do you remember what the factory shock setting was?

Not off hand, but the documentation supplied with the subframe gives you a starting point.


Didn't get my new subframe powdercoated, looking at different options for painting it. Wondering how your ppg has held up on yours?

It's holding up great. No issues at all. :thumbsup:


That is some killer work!:hail:

Thanks. :cheers:

[68KMARO]

what are you doing with the old subframe? is it for sale ? will it fit a 68 camaro?

rich