Anybody else sick of these Prius stories on the news?!

[9deuce9rr]

I swear, there’s a minimum of 2 each week. It’s all the same problem, by the same car, I don’t think we need to keep hearing about it.

And I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m taking a bit of a different angle than what’s been said about it all: each one of these people need to have their licenses taken away for lack of common sense!
I DO believe a company should be held responsible for the problem, and their cars should be manufactured in the most failproof way (which is why I still think electronic throttle [fly by wire] is a horrible idea, and should always be mechanical).
But really?! Come on… Earlier this week, a man near Bakersfield drove over half an hour with his car at 90+ mph and had to call 911 to figure out how to slow it down. Police response: Step On Your Brakes!
Let’s say your gas pedal sticks and/or your car begins accelerating on it’s own, what happens next?!

1) you let off the gas and the pedal doesn’t come up b/c it’s stuck against the assembly used to increase pedal friction, or it is stuck behind the floor mat…….. take your foot OFF the pedal, stick your toes behind the pedal, and pull towards you. Crazy concept, but pretty sure it works out in your favor?

Or if it’s not stuck, but the electronics fail and it accelerates on its own?

2) I’m pretty sure neutral is still functional, perhaps you should try shifting into it?
3) Then you’re in neutral and your car starts revving real high? Maybe try shutting your car off? Sure your power brakes/steering go out, but I’m pretttty sure the majority of us don’t have power steering and we get around just fine. No power brakes could be a problem, but that e-brake handle works just fine to slow down your COASTING car if you use common sense and apply it gently.

If you cant figure out any of these… or you have to call 911 to have them tell you to step on your brake pedal after half an hour at almost 100mph, you should probably invest in a bike and/or a bus pass and get off the road! Sure it’s a scary experience, but take a second to gather your thoughts and put common sense to use

[/venting]

[Roger M]

I swear, there’s a minimum of 2 each week. It’s all the same problem, by the same car, I don’t think we need to keep hearing about it.

And I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m taking a bit of a different angle than what’s been said about it all: each one of these people need to have their licenses taken away for lack of common sense!
I DO believe a company should be held responsible for the problem, and their cars should be manufactured in the most failproof way (which is why I still think electronic throttle [fly by wire] is a horrible idea, and should always be mechanical).
But really?! Come on… Earlier this week, a man near Bakersfield drove over half an hour with his car at 90+ mph and had to call 911 to figure out how to slow it down. Police response: Step On Your Brakes!
Let’s say your gas pedal sticks and/or your car begins accelerating on it’s own, what happens next?!

1) you let off the gas and the pedal doesn’t come up b/c it’s stuck against the assembly used to increase pedal friction, or it is stuck behind the floor mat…….. take your foot OFF the pedal, stick your toes behind the pedal, and pull towards you. Crazy concept, but pretty sure it works out in your favor?

Or if it’s not stuck, but the electronics fail and it accelerates on its own?

2) I’m pretty sure neutral is still functional, perhaps you should try shifting into it?
3) Then you’re in neutral and your car starts revving real high? Maybe try shutting your car off? Sure your power brakes/steering go out, but I’m pretttty sure the majority of us don’t have power steering and we get around just fine. No power brakes could be a problem, but that e-brake handle works just fine to slow down your COASTING car if you use common sense and apply it gently.

If you cant figure out any of these… or you have to call 911 to have them tell you to step on your brake pedal after half an hour at almost 100mph, you should probably invest in a bike and/or a bus pass and get off the road! Sure it’s a scary experience, but take a second to gather your thoughts and put common sense to use

[/venting]

Co-signed

[chr2002ca]

Yep, I totally agree. People who are able to somehow call 911 and report that their car is accelerating out of control and yet for some reason can't put the car in Neutral are a bit puzzling to me also. Who knows if the foot behind the pedal would work, but Neutral should. Maybe they just enter a total state of panic and loss of reasoning abilities, or they just have a severe lack of knowledge of common car functions. Some people just lose it under pressure. I think stuff like that should be covered in the driver's manuals that people have to study to get their driver's license. Call it the 'Toyota' addendum.

[9deuce9rr]

People who are able to somehow call 911 and report that their car is accelerating out of control and yet for some reason can't put the car in Neutral are a bit puzzling to me also.

wonder if they got a d*ck cop on the scene and got a ticket for talking and driving :_paranoid

Call it the 'Toyota' addendum.

:rofl:

[Warpath Pontiac]

I agree with you 100%.

Then you’re in neutral and your car starts revving real high? Maybe try shutting your car off? Sure your power brakes/steering go out, but I’m pretttty sure the majority of us don’t have power steering and we get around just fine. No power brakes could be a problem, but that e-brake handle works just fine to slow down your COASTING car if you use common sense and apply it gently.

I can picture the "typical" person in this situation turning the car off and locking the steering wheel and hitting a pole/tree/car/etc. I still think it needs to be much harder to get a drivers license.

[tgvettes]

I say just don't buy Toyotas

Tonny

[ElkyZO6]

I say just don't buy Toyotas

Tonny


I like your thinking.:yes:

[BRIAN]

I agree the stories are all over but I also think it is easy to be a judge when it isn't happening to you. Remember not everyone is a car person and it really hasn't anything to do with driving skills. Just like people who judge Cops who have to make life changing decisions in seconds under crazy pressure. Easy to critique while sitting comfortable writing on a computer.

Car is going 90mph with him standing on brakes as per report on news. I think most are scared to turn off the key as there is the fear on locking the column. The car stopped with him standing on the brake pulling the emergency brake and hitting the cop car in front of him. Sounds like pretty crazy situation to me? I usually drive with 2 kids in the back of my car and do not want that situation happening behind me I do not care who is behind the wheel.

Then again I would probably thank that so called d$%k cop for saving my life.

[Swain]

The guy was also wearing a Corvette Club Jacket hahah

[JamesJ]

Its also because its "Toyota the Great' My 2002 F-250 and our Excursion both have recalls for the cam sensor or something, the vehicle just shuts off while driving...... Happened with the excursion on the freeway and just shut off and my truck just started "bucking" so i went straight to the dealer...... Did you ever hear much about that ? ? ?

[JamesJ]

I still think it needs to be much harder to get a drivers license.

Ill vote for that... :yes:

[Bow Tie 67]

Ill vote for that... :yes:


I'll add that it is a privilege not a right.

[9deuce9rr]

Did you ever hear much about that ? ? ?

nope... because all that kind of stuff is expected from a Ford :P

[96z28ss]

Not All toyota drivers are idiots.
Toyota screwed up the electronics in the hybrid cars. You can't power them off at highway speeds.

i got this on another car forum i'm on.

I just went over and talked to one of my employees that owns a Prius and he says that if the car is at highway speed you can move the gear shift but it will not go into neutral. Every selection is locked out. Also if the car is at highway speed you cannot shut off the car using the start/off button. Just doesn't do anything. Likewise for the Park button. The car has to be stopped or at very low speed to change gears or turn the car off. Basically if at highway speed you cannot do anything to slow the car except stand on the brakes.

So not the drivers panic that keeps them from thinking, its the unfortunate design of the car.

[9deuce9rr]

wow... horrible design by toyota

yet more justification for my saying that certain things should not "evolve" to being strictly electronic.

kind of scary to think that a lot of newer motorcycles use fly-by-wire :-O


I still don’t believe it needs to be on the news every other day though. The recall has been made, owners know about it, from the news, word of mouth, letters from Toyota, etc. Each of these stated that the cars should NOT be driven unless going to the dealership to have them repaired. Those who ignored this information and continued to drive the car have no reason to make a big deal out of it, it’s their fault. We don’t flood the news with people dying from lung cancer each day as a result of ignoring the surgeon general’s warning… so stop flooding the news with people who ignore safety recalls..... again... just my .02

[MarkM66]

The guy was also wearing a Corvette Club Jacket hahah

Makes sense. They're usually non car smart too.

[71RS/SS396]

wow... horrible design by toyota

yet more justification for my saying that certain things should not "evolve" to being strictly electronic.

kind of scary to think that a lot of newer motorcycles use fly-by-wire :-O


I still don’t believe it needs to be on the news every other day though. The recall has been made, owners know about it, from the news, word of mouth, letters from Toyota, etc. Each of these stated that the cars should NOT be driven unless going to the dealership to have them repaired. Those who ignored this information and continued to drive the car have no reason to make a big deal out of it, it’s their fault. We don’t flood the news with people dying from lung cancer each day as a result of ignoring the surgeon general’s warning… so stop flooding the news with people who ignore safety recalls..... again... just my .02

According to the news report the guy in California did take it to the dealer and was turned away because they said it was not part of the gas pedal recall.

[Fluid Power]

This was bound to happen. Turns out one guy was bankrupt and might have faked his problem.

http://jalopnik.com/5491101/did-bankrupt-runaway-prius-driver-fake-unintended-acceleration?skyline=true&s=i

Darren

[chr2002ca]

Not All toyota drivers are idiots.
Toyota screwed up the electronics in the hybrid cars. You can't power them off at highway speeds.

i got this on another car forum i'm on:

I just went over and talked to one of my employees that owns a Prius and he says that if the car is at highway speed you can move the gear shift but it will not go into neutral. Every selection is locked out. Also if the car is at highway speed you cannot shut off the car using the start/off button. Just doesn't do anything. Likewise for the Park button. The car has to be stopped or at very low speed to change gears or turn the car off. Basically if at highway speed you cannot do anything to slow the car except stand on the brakes.

So not the drivers panic that keeps them from thinking, its the unfortunate design of the car.



So the throttle goes to full and sticks, you can't shift out of gear into Neutral, and you can't turn off the engine either? Do the windows roll up and the doors lock also? I guess there's not much a driver can do if that's truly the case. Leave it to those Japanese to design something like that. They probably installed the same thing in their WWII airplanes those poor Kamikaze Japanese pilots used over the Pacific. Maybe they weren't "heroic" at all, just unwilling participants! "Sir, we've got a new plane to fight those damn Americans, it's the Toyota Zero. Just tell the pilots to make a direct strafing run on the enemy battleships and the plane will do the rest."

[DFRESH]

So the throttle goes to full and sticks, you can't shift out of gear into Neutral, and you can't turn off the engine either? Do the windows roll up and the doors lock also? I guess there's not much a driver can do if that's truly the case. Leave it to those Japanese to design something like that. They probably installed the same thing in their WWII airplanes those poor Kamikaze Japanese pilots used over the Pacific. Maybe they weren't "heroic" at all, just unwilling participants! "Sir, we've got a new plane to fight those damn Americans, it's the Toyota Zero. Just tell the pilots to make a direct strafing run on the enemy battleships and the plane will do the rest."


LOL--dude, that was funny--the Toyota Zero--the plane will do the rest :lolhit: :rofl:

[Rod P]

So the throttle goes to full and sticks, you can't shift out of gear into Neutral, and you can't turn off the engine either? Do the windows roll up and the doors lock also? I guess there's not much a driver can do if that's truly the case. Leave it to those Japanese to design something like that. They probably installed the same thing in their WWII airplanes those poor Kamikaze Japanese pilots used over the Pacific. Maybe they weren't "heroic" at all, just unwilling participants! "Sir, we've got a new plane to fight those damn Americans, it's the Toyota Zero. Just tell the pilots to make a direct strafing run on the enemy battleships and the plane will do the rest."

:fire: :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :willy: :willy: :willy: MY GOD THAT WAS FUNNY!!! true............. But still Damn FUNNY!!!

[nowukno]

I say just don't buy Toyotas

Tonny
X's 2

[byndbad914]

drive by wire is not your enemy - diesels have been using DxW tech for quite awhile and if it was the tech that was a problem, then you would have been reading about run away diesels long ago. Don't hear about Ford, Dodge or GM trucks taking off like crazy for example.

The short answer is just bad design by Toyota.

my rant - maybe it is a bit of karma for being and idiot and buying the Prius in the first place - that car is for sheep and other followers, not those that choose to educate themselves. The battery in that car is an absolute "nickel nightmare" as I call it and just buying that car has done more damage to the environment than buying a turbo diesel car that is twice the size and comfortable. I am getting on my box now so I will slow my roll and leave with this; I am really interested in all of this type of tech and can say that battery is horrible, but don't believe all the hype including that BS Hummer "study" as it is rather full of crap and bias just like a Prius owner will bias his own opinion, but reality is nickel battery production is NASTY. So maybe just a bit of what comes around goes around :D

[Vegas69]

I don't doubt a few throttles are sticking and brakes are acting up. I just think it's got the typical American leach syndrom written all over it. It's no different than a pro athlete or a celebrity taking the wrong step. Every dirt bag lazy pile of crap American calls the dirt bag attorney on the radio and sues. Comes with the territory with big business. Sure would be nice if there was an actual pre approval process on law suits. I've been lucky enough to stay out of the court room in my life but that's by a stroke of extreme luck.

[Fluid Power]

I don't doubt a few throttles are sticking and brakes are acting up. I just think it's got the typical American leach syndrom written all over it. It's no different than a pro athlete or a celebrity taking the wrong step. Every dirt bag lazy pile of crap American calls the dirt bag attorney on the radio and sues. Comes with the territory with big business. Sure would be nice if there was an actual pre approval process on law suits. I've been lucky enough to stay out of the court room in my life but that's by a stroke of extreme luck.


Pre-approval? You fix it using the British system of law. Loser pays other parties legal fees. Period.

Darren

[XcYZ]

Every manufacturer has had problems, they've all had recalls. But what really pisses me off is how Toyota bought off the NHTSA by hiring one of the investigators to be the Toyota lobbyist TO the NHTSA, how they boasted in an internal memo about about saving $100+ million by dragging their feet on recalls including claiming it was just the floor mats, how Rockefeller, the lead congressional "investigator" on Toyota had also bragged how closely he worked with Toyota to get them to build a manufacturing plant in his state, and on and on...

IMO, this isn't about idiot drivers or how someone can't find nuetral, it's about collusion, greed, and Toyota's corporate ethics (or lack there of).

/rant

[DOOM]

Every manufacturer has had problems, they've all had recalls. But what really pisses me off is how Toyota bought off the NHTSA by hiring one of the investigators to be the Toyota lobbyist TO the NHTSA, how they boasted in an internal memo about about saving $100+ million by dragging their feet on recalls including claiming it was just the floor mats, how Rockefeller, the lead congressional "investigator" on Toyota had also bragged how closely he worked with Toyota to get them to build a manufacturing plant in his state, and on and on...

IMO, this isn't about idiot drivers or how someone can't find nuetral, it's about collusion, greed, and Toyota's corporate ethics (or lack there of).

/rant

X2:yes:

[Vegas69]

Pre-approval? You fix it using the British system of law. Loser pays other parties legal fees. Period.

Darren

I like that Darren. :thumbsup:

[DRJDVM's '69]

The point about not being able to shift into neutral or turn the Prius off at highway speeds is interesting....that must be a fail safe for idiot drivers too?

But havent the vast majority of cars that have had "issues", not been Prius cars? So what stopped those people from dropping it in neutral?

I also read an article about the "mental" aspect of all this type of hype/publicity. With the general public as soon as they hear about this type of stuff, ALOT of people manufacture in their minds that their car is doing the same thing, when it really wasnt. They flash back to the time they accidently had their foot slip and hit the gas and the car lurched forward....all of a sudden it wasnt them, it was the car...... "my car did that too!!!". The mind changes their memory to fit what they are seeing and hearing about now....and not what really happened.

[zcrz]

We just had in the news a lady yesterday crash her Lexus, said it wouldnt go into neutral. She crashed into a pole and broke her leg. It was just "fixed" three weeks ago.

I read that there have been 50 or more deaths related to this!

[96z28ss]

The point about not being able to shift into neutral or turn the Prius off at highway speeds is interesting....that must be a fail safe for idiot drivers too?

But havent the vast majority of cars that have had "issues", not been Prius cars? So what stopped those people from dropping it in neutral?



I think its a problem with the hybrids computer and the no key in the ignition just a push button start not letting the driver shut the car down while its at highway speeds. The Prius, Camry, Highlander and Lexus LS, GS, HS, RX are all availiable in hybrid form. The only models that im aware of that doesn't have the keyless ignition is the Toyota Trucks.
What bothers me is that they tried to blame the floormats. I think they have major issues with the electronics in the car.
Does anyone here have a Toyota? I'd like to here if you really can't get the car into neutral buy selecting it with the shift lever while at speed.

[Blown353]

Concerning the failures (or users who don't know how to cope with a problem): I'm not jumping to conclusions until thorough failure mode testing by an independent entity is performed-- but I have pretty strong suspicions that somewhere in the software of the myriad of electrical systems involved (keyless ignition, regenerative braking on the hybrids, manual/automatic shift quadrants, throttle position/transmission interlocks to help prevent transmission damage from neutral drops and the like) there are certain operating modes or conflicting sensor inputs that can result in odd malfunctions. Worse yet it seems that some very key "panic mode" safety overrides and shutdown modes may have been missed by the software guys (who perhaps never envisioned these kinds of failures) or worse yet were purposefully omitted for cost savings.

What's disconcerting is that in many cases there is no longer a direct MECHANICAL way to decouple the engine from the wheels in the event of a failure-- you are relying on software to do it for you. Many shift quadrants are now fully electronic and there is no longer a direct mechanical/hydraulic connection between the shifter and the valve body in automatic cars. You might be asking for neutral, but unless certain software parameters are met the computer might not put the transmission into neutral. Same goes for keyless ignitions, most will not shut off unless certain operating parameters are satisfied. If the software isn't programmed to let you shut things off in the event of a panic situation you better start looking for "plan B."

The internal memo aspect and possibility of covering up a known issue is very interesting as well.

Should be interesting when the dust clears.

A buddy of mine who is a Honda tech just had a tough diagnosis on a Civic that came in for service which refused to shift in/out of park unless you used the manual bypass button on the shifter and then once in gear refused to go out of gear or back into reverse or park unless the same bypass was used. Didn't matter if you stepped on the brakes, the shifter interlock just refused to release the shifter. After some diagnosis and time on the phone with Honda's engineers it was determined that the throttle body (throttle by wire) and throttle position sensor had drifted just enough out of the normal operating range that the ECU was engaging the shifter interlock because it saw that the TPS sensor position was open past the "normal" operating range and it believed that shifting into or out of gear might cause transmission damage. A new throttle body and ECU reset cleared up the problem. It just goes to show that systems that seemingly should not be interacting (at least to the end user) such as throttle body and shifter interlock can under certain situations induce a malfunction that most people would never expect.

All the modern features and convieniences on new cars are great when they're working... but when they're not the level of interconnectedness of all the systems can lead to many new (and potentially exciting!) failure modes.

Personally, I'm sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for someone with a manual transmission Corolla to have a runaway and make the national news. That will be the true "idiot on parade" story. :rofl:

[DRJDVM's '69]

This isnt just hybrids...is it?

[GregWeld]

Is Toyota using WINDOWS by any chance..... :rofl:

CTRL ALT - DELETE

[98ssnova]

Is Toyota using WINDOWS by any chance..... :rofl:

CTRL ALT - DELETE

if this were true there wold bet at least 40 command prompts to make sure you wanted to shut the car down :willy:

[COYBILT]

this stuff is annoying to hear about but makes me happy to see IDIOTS eat their words about the big three.

[98ssnova]

this stuff is annoying to hear about but makes me happy to see IDIOTS eat their words about the big three.

HELLS YEAH I will only buy GM fo life

[70rs]

Is Toyota using WINDOWS by any chance..... :rofl:

CTRL ALT - DELETE

Is there a problem with Toyotas?:_paranoid






They are running VISTA. :D

[89 RS]

That guy from California was on Fox News this morning again, he said he does not drive his Toyota faster than 70 mph because he's afraid he will not be able to slow down. My question is why would you drive that vehicle knowing that problem exist? Not exactly a rocket scientist. I think I would get a new or different vehicle...and not a Toyota.

[cluxford]

I'm in Australia, my wife has a series 2 Prius, purchased new in 2006

It hasn't been recalled (yet).

She's out right now so I can't go check. Have driven it a few times not many.

From memory (and I will go and check to be sure), there is no Neutral as we normally think of it.

You have:
- Key (which is a plastic square, not a key) slots in before car will start
- Push button start
- then you select Drive or Reverse (only 2 selections)
- There is a "Park" button also
- Foot brake emergency brake

I've not worried too much about my wife's car as she had it serviced recently and asked about recall (at a Toyota dealer mind you).

I might take it for a spin this weekend and try:
1. Pushing start / stop button while driving
2. Pushing park button while driving
3. trying to change gear (selecting drive or reverse while driving - might be bad but I suspect they have an electronic shut out to stop that happening anyway)
4. pull the key out, see if that does anything while driving

Curious to see what the above might show, as said I've probably driven it under 10 times in 3 years

What I have told my wife is if anything ever does happen, just stand on the foot brake and the normal brake. These Prius's brakes rock, first time I tapped em I thought I was going to go through the windscreen, they are very effective brakes, so even if accelerator is stuck on, I gotta believe if you stand on both the emergency brake and the normal brake it will absolutely slow you down, the emergency brake is still mechanical as I understand it, it would have to slow it enough to make some decisions or at least prevent a major fatality..

Anyway will see if I can take it for a run this weekend and do some experiments !!

[TreySmith]

Can't you just throw the key out the window? Wont the computer shut off if the key is so far away?

And I love how they are recklessly flying down the highway at 95mph since that is usually what I cruise at on the highway in the T/A...

If this happened to me I would pull up next to the wall and grind along the wall to slow me down. Yeah you might total your car but you will come out unscathed.

[gearheads78]

Can't you just throw the key out the window? Wont the computer shut off if the key is so far away?



No it just won't restart if you try to start again stating "key not found"

The California Prius guy is a balloon boy hoax under water 700K looking fro a payday.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toyota-autos-hoax-media-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.html?boxes=financechannelforbes

[MarkM66]

No it just won't restart if you try to start again stating "key not found"

The California Prius guy is a balloon boy hoax under water 700K looking fro a payday.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toyota-autos-hoax-media-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.html?boxes=financechannelforbes

What a scum bag!

[steemin]

Karma for buying rice:_paranoid

Scott