Holley's new EFI SEMA/PRI Brochure

[64duece]

For those that didn't get a chance to visit the SEMA show last week or unable to make the upcoming PRI show in early December. Here's the brochure offered up to those able to visit the display. If you get a chance to make it to the PRI show, feel free to stop in and introduce yourself.

http://www.holley.com/HolleyEFIBrochure/

Products will begin shipping in the first quarter of 2010. Post if anyone has any additional or specific questions, I'll be happy to answer.

[z4me69]

price??????

[64duece]

The Dominator system with ECU, harness and WBO2 will retail in the same area as FAST system ~ $2200. This is the full monty and will support most EFI applications including LS1/2/3 etc and 4L60/80E trans. There is plenty of I/O left over for full data acquisition, boost/nitrous control. drive by wire etc.

The HP system which deletes the trans control, drive by wire, single WBO2 and some of the input/output will ballpark $1500. This is tailored towards base EFI systems, LSX applications with cable operated throttle. There's enough I/O to support boost, nitrous or water/meth.

The DIS and related peripherals have yet to have the pricing nailed down. Pricing should be released to respective dealers in December.

[parsonsj]

Mike Norris and I spent some time with Doug Flynn (Chief Engineer on the project at Holley) at SEMA. It's very impressive if the unit is as good as Doug thinks it will be. Drive by wire, trans control, spark control, dual wideband, 32 x 32 main fuel table (I think... could be wrong about that), cranking spark advance, direct input for fuel pressure and oil pressure, native support for LSX crank and cam sensors, etc., etc. All in a single box. The software package looks like a winner too.

AFAIK, it has more features than anything else on the market today. This could put Holley back on the map.

jp

[wiedemab]

Interesting. I will have to keep an eye on this.

[96z28ss]

Mike Norris and I spent some time with Doug Flynn (Chief Engineer on the project at Holley) at SEMA. It's very impressive if the unit is as good as Doug thinks it will be. Drive by wire, trans control, spark control, dual wideband, 32 x 32 main fuel table (I think... could be wrong about that), cranking spark advance, direct input for fuel pressure and oil pressure, native support for LSX crank and cam sensors, etc., etc. All in a single box. The software package looks like a winner too.

AFAIK, it has more features than anything else on the market today. This could put Holley back on the map.

jp

Doesn't Bigstuff3 have all this, and they have been around for a few years now. I think its around the same price also.

[parsonsj]

BigStuff? All of the things I listed? (DBW, direct trans control, dual wideband, native LSx support, oil and fuel pressure inputs, 32x32 fuel table, really?)

I've not dealt directly with BigStuff3, so I suppose so. I'd be surprised though.

jp

[parsonsj]

From the BS3 website:

• Wide-band methanol control down to 2.9:1 A/F ratio.
• Engine Torque Management (ETM) to manage traction with 32 different levels of aggressiveness.
• CAN interface with Racepak Ultra-dash, VNET, & EGT modules!
• E10 – E85 ethanol systems (spring of 2009).
• Sequential fuel control for up to 24 injectors low impedance injectors in a staged
configuration.
• 2 & 3-step starting line control for distributor and coil-on-plug systems.
• Dual (low and high) fan control
• Fan shut-off at Wide Open Throttle
• Transmission “Auto-Shift” control with shift light

In its base form, the GEN3 SEFI system includes WBO2 control, individual cylinder fuel and spark compensation, along with the following additional standard features:

• Configurable Load & RPM axis’ to enable optimization in desired operating range.
• Data Logging Internal (DAI) - 52 channels at 50 times/sec. All the parameters, required by the ECU to control fuel and spark are able to be logged without a PC in the Car!
• Capable of driving smart Coil-on-Plug (COP) ignitions with the stock sensors.
• Injector phasing, at the start of the fuel injection event.
• Programmable “peak-&-hold” injector drivers with current chopping capability. Software configurable ignition options for GM HEI, Ford TFI, LT1, V6_DIS, and IPU.
• Individual cylinder fuel & spark compensation. Turbocharged starting line timing curve.
• Integrated dual 2-Step for Coil-On-Plug (COP) ignitions.
• Low side (primary) and high side (secondary) fuel pump and engine cooling fan functionality.
• 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 BAR MAP sensor compatible.
• Programmable injector opening vs. battery voltage.
• Improved transient fueling algorithms.
• Seamless decel fuel cut-off.


I see no mention of any of the features from my list. I remain skeptical.

jp

ps. Oh, and Doug said their new system has enough on-board memory to datalog for days. Literally.

[64duece]

Doesn't Bigstuff3 have all this, and they have been around for a few years now. I think its around the same price also.

The BS3 and FAST have many features available. These features are considered "upgrades" and those costs range from $100 to near $2000 when you want it all. The Holley unit comes standard "fully loaded" with nothing extra to buy.

[parsonsj]

I know FAST doesn't have these features, even in upgrades. I doubt BS3 has them either.

I'm sure both companies are re-doubling their efforts to bring some or all of these features to market, but for the time being, Holley has a winner. (assuming it all works :) ).

[ohcbird]

All I can say is it's about time!

This looks alot like the Accel Gen 8, but with more I/O channels (PWM + MVC). That's a really good thing when you want to use VVT and the like. I might have to switch & try this. Does anyone know if they have one beyond the test bench? Are their fuel & spark maps scalable? Who did the beta work for them? Going after the LS crowd should pay off big- BS3, DFI both took too long to bring a REASONABLE kit to market, leaving the EFILIVE & HPTUNER guys to eat up the street-tuner market. Oh well- let's hope this thing delivers (in the first quarter of 2010, of course).

JP- You are absolutely right; I really hopes this pulls Holley back into the fray. That said, I hope they haven't sourced them out to China. Most of the current manufacturers have paid a hefty price due to the lack of board quality. All that investment just to have trash delivered to your door. Ptoooey!

GOOD LUCK HOLLEY

[64duece]

They've had units installed in vehicles for nearly a year. I have the Dominator ECU running my 565" BBC w/ twin turbos, water/meth, dis and 4L80e. I've used many systems on this car including Cmdr950, FAST XFI and now the Holley Dominator.

Systems have been installed and tested in everything from stock LS1's, street and race turbo and nitrous applications. I've rode in the LS1 Camaro for quite awhile. I couldn't tell there was an aftermarket ECU controlling the powertrain. The startup, idle and driveability was that good!

Yes, the 31x31 fuel and spark maps are scalable. There is a specific scaling and warnings tab in the System Setup that allows you to configure the scale and enable caution and/or warning outputs.

[Pantera EFI]

ALL of these features are important, what about the "engine"

A great number of years have passed for those with "features" that if implemented would SLOW DOWN their EMS to
a "snails pace".

So, I always "do the math" first.

Can the chosen processor support their claims ?

ASK, "What processor is fitted" ?
Then ask Speed, MIPS, Timer/Counters, A/D bits, Degree Based, etc.

Lance

[NOVA]

This sounds pretty cool, wonder how much difference this would make on ZZ4 with aluminum heads,Hedders and MSD ignition, anything real noticeable?

What about older motors, like a 283?

[andrewb70]

This sounds pretty cool, wonder how much difference this would make on ZZ4 with aluminum heads,Hedders and MSD ignition, anything real noticeable?

What about older motors, like a 283?

The real advantage of EFI is cold start up, drivability, and better fuel economy. WOT power is rarely different between a properly tuned carb and a peoperly tuned EFI system.

Andrew

[96z28ss]

BigStuff? All of the things I listed? (DBW, direct trans control, dual wideband, native LSx support, oil and fuel pressure inputs, 32x32 fuel table, really?)

I've not dealt directly with BigStuff3, so I suppose so. I'd be surprised though.

jp



Not sure how big the fuel table is. not possitive on oil input and not sure on the drive by wire but it does everything else.

[Mike Norris]

If you do want to want to run a DBW system, it is either this or a factory ECU setup. I do also like the idea of having dual oxygen sensors as this would help the sequential setups to be more accurate with theor calculations.

If going with a cable drive TB, there are several choices for sure.

Mike Norris

[93Polo]

If you do want to want to run a DBW system, it is either this or a factory ECU setup. I do also like the idea of having dual oxygen sensors as this would help the sequential setups to be more accurate with theor calculations.

If going with a cable drive TB, there are several choices for sure.

Mike Norris

Why would you want a DBW system? The only reason I see would be to hide one more cable in a show car.

After owning a C5, one of the things I want in a LS swap is a traditional throttle cable. The throttle response even with heads, cam and light weight flywheel always seemed to lag just a bit on the C5.

I do applaud Holley for stepping up with an efi system with new options. Always good to see more powerful and user friendly efi systems on the market. Also this was not a shot at Mike, he has been very well respected on many LT1/LS1 forums I've been on for the past decade.

[parsonsj]

Why would you want a DBW system? The only reason I see would be to hide one more cable in a show car.Well... that's one reason. Not a very good one, I would say. Some better reasons might include:

1. Custom throttle pedal to butterfly opening ratios. There are few things more annoying to drive than cars with binary throttle blades. Those ratios can then also differ depending on throttle position sensor.
2. More control of function typically foisted on the IAC, like idle speed control for A/C, coolant warmup enhancement, or throttle follower programming.
3. It can be added to traction control programming.
4. It can be programmed to help support cruise control.

In short, putting the throttle body under computer control gives the ECU a whole new device that can be integrated into many engine-related functions.

jp