Racing Schools

[Vegas69]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a private full day session out at Spring Mountain raceway in Pahrump. Before I commit, I'd like to hear any reccomendations from those of you that have attended a school in the Southwest. What was involved, cost, track length, etc.

[GregWeld]

Todd --

I've done Bondurant and Spring Mountain... I learned about 400% more at Bondurant - but it also cost more... Spring Mountain was more "seat time" but a whole lot less about teaching you total car handling.

I'd return to Bondurant in a heartbeat -- and frankly -- wouldn't bother with SM unless I just wanted to run laps...

Just my .02 worth. SM was still lots of fun!

[mfain]

Todd,

I agree with the previous post. I moved to Pahrump and did the engineering and supervised the construction of the orignal 2.2 mile circuit of Spring Mountain for Rupert Bragg-Smith, the original owner/designer. It is a very technical track and a blast to drive. In the past few years the new owners have added more track and a lot of features. It is a great facility with several driving schools (Corvette, ZR-1, Lotus, Radical) with quality folks running the place. The schools are generally more geared toward car control and high performance driving than actual road racing, but they do have advanced courses. I now spend a lot of time at Firebird (Phoenix) and the track isn't as "upscale", but it is hard to beat Bondurant's school for instruction. However, if you are looking for a challenging course and would like to get a jump on future track days, I think a session at Spring Mountain will not disappoint you.

Pappy (56 Corvette Road Racer)

[Vegas69]

I'm looking at a one on one deal where I can pick the instructor. I'd rather have a full day of attention than 3 with other people. I'll look into Bondurant. If I'm going to spend the bread, it better be well spent.:cheers:

[Vegas69]

Todd,

I agree with the previous post. I moved to Pahrump and did the engineering and supervised the construction of the orignal 2.2 mile circuit of Spring Mountain for Rupert Bragg-Smith, the original owner/designer. It is a very technical track and a blast to drive. In the past few years the new owners have added more track and a lot of features. It is a great facility with several driving schools (Corvette, ZR-1, Lotus, Radical) with quality folks running the place. The schools are generally more geared toward car control and high performance driving than actual road racing, but they do have advanced courses. I now spend a lot of time at Firebird (Phoenix) and the track isn't as "upscale", but it is hard to beat Bondurant's school for instruction. However, if you are looking for a challenging course and would like to get a jump on future track days, I think a session at Spring Mountain will not disappoint you.

Pappy (56 Corvette Road Racer)

Thanks Pappy......I'm brand new to the road course scene so more of a beginner class is just fine. That is where I'll be spending a majority of my seat time so I thought I'd check there first. I'll check on Bondurant and see if they do one on one courses as well.

[XcYZ]

I moved to Pahrump and did the engineering and supervised the construction of the orignal 2.2 mile circuit of Spring Mountain for Rupert Bragg-Smith, the original owner/designer.

Pappy (56 Corvette Road Racer)

Wow, awesome. Not to hijack Todd's thread, but since you played a major role in SM, what features of the track do you like best and what do you like least? Is there a certain corner or progression of corners that really stand out? I'll be going there in a few months and I'm curious about it from your side of the fence. :thumbsup:

[GregWeld]

Todd ---

When I did BB - I did the "ZO6 EXPERIENCE"... they did class time - about apex - turn in - tire contact - braking - under and over steer etc - then we jumped in the CTS's they had set up with outriggers... the instructor can raise or lower either end or both -- and you go out and turn some figure 8's - while this butthead tries to mess you up bigtime! It's so much fun it's ridiculous! Then you get in the ZO6's and do some wet stops etc - then we did slalom - and they taught you about that - which is all about "balance"... Their school is all about building blocks - and they have that all figured out. There was only 4 of us in this class -- and we had all the instruction you could use - or needed.

The Spring Mountain romp - was more - some classroom time -- very basic instructions - lots of "if you crash it you pay the bill" - and then follow the leader... LOTS AND LOTS of laps -- which I was more than happy to do... but the LEARNING / TEACHING was not even close to what they're offering at Bondurant.

I also agree that the track was more fun at SM! But I needed the instruction from BB to be able to enjoy the seat time I got at SM -- if that makes any sense to you.

By the way -- you want to have a blast and really poo your little panties?? Do a 6 speed shifter cart class while you're at Bondurants!! 0 - 100 - 0 in about 6 seconds or less -- can't remember the actual number - but it's scary fast!

In the cars you brake BEFORE the corner -- in the carts - you drop gear and accelerate through the corner.... man, I'm tellin' ya - this is a blast not to be missed.

[GregWeld]

Wow, awesome. Not to hijack Todd's thread, but since you played a major role in SM, what features of the track do you like best and what do you like least? Is there a certain corner or progression of corners that really stand out? I'll be going there in a few months and I'm curious about it from your side of the fence. :thumbsup:

Scott --- 8 and 9 then 10 (I think those are the numbers) 10 being the last turn onto the straight -- are the turns I liked best... if you hit them right - you could haul some mail -- and if you came in too fast - you're bungholio was puckering as you tried to gather it up! Coming out of 10 - if you carried your speed through 8 and 9 -- you could drift to the wall as you grabbed another gear going up the hill... WAY FUN!

The top of the straight - is a fast right hander --- but it's blind going in (almost) and I was hauling up there and some dufus had spun and was sittin' sideways in the middle of the turn.... THAT is where your koolness comes in -- and you could slam the binders and t-bone him - or you could just drive around him and hammer the loud pedal.... EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA

I drove around him -- then cleaned up afterwards. LOL

Shoulda seen the look on his face!!

[Vegas69]

Damn you make it sound fun Greg! So you did the one day Z06 experience at Bondurant only? That looks like it could be a good first course for me and I have a buddy in Scottsdale anyway. Which class did you take at Spring Mountain?

[GregWeld]

Here's the SM track -- the school I took only used the lower part... you can see the sweeping 8 into 9 and out on 10 I was talking about in my earlier post...
http://www.springmountainmotorsports.com/images/smtracklayout2.jpg

[GregWeld]

I just checked the Bondurant school line up - they still offer the ZO6 exerience - but it's now 1 or 2 days - your choice. I did 3 days - and had my (at the time) 17 year old enrolled in the 3 day Teenage drivers school... he's 22 now and still talking about the fun he had and what he learned.

[Vegas69]

It looks like bondurant is offering some nice specials. hmmmm http://www.bondurant.com/high_performance_driving_school/specials.php

[GregWeld]

Damn you make it sound fun Greg! So you did the one day Z06 experience at Bondurant only? That looks like it could be a good first course for me and I have a buddy in Scottsdale anyway. Which class did you take at Spring Mountain?

I will tell you Todd that doing this (either one) was the most fun I've ever had doing anything... totally serious here! The best 3 days a guy can have!

I did the Ron Fellows school while at SM...

In fact -- while at SM -- they had the C5 ZO6's and the new C6 "regular" Vettes... the guys I was with (we took the whole class up so we could "own" the track) loved the older ZO6's... while the newer and lighter (and more nimble) C6's were my pick. I'm short at 5'5" and the new Vette just fits me better. It reminded me of "back in da day" when I had a 66 and my best buddy (now brother in law) had a 68 BB Vette... I just couldn't drive that 68 with it's laid back seat position... and the big fenders -- I couldn't see a damn thing!

LOL:woot:

[GregWeld]

Yeah --- this is the only thing that holds most guys back from doing the ultimate thrill --- it's not cheap... but it's worth EVERY DOLLAR and then some!

Okay -- the shifter karts -- a must do thrill ride -- do 0 to 100 mph in 6 seconds... they're about an inch off the ground - making the feeling of doing 80 feel like mach 10.... and shifting them is a blast!!:woot:

[Vegas69]

Dude, I spend 3k on parts without blinking....it's not holding me back!:cheers: I have to put it in perspective for myself. :rofl: It's a done deal, I just have to figure out what I'm doing. Not sure I have time to make the bondurant special. The thought of learning on my home track has it's advantages as well. You must of done the spring mountain school 3 years ago. I wonder if it's progressed. John Parsons just got done with it, I'll have to talk to him more about his experience as well.

[mfain]

To answer Scott's question, I guess the most important thing to remember is that exit speed (off a corner) is more important than entry speed. If you blast around turn one, a 300 ft. radius/180 right turn and exit way to the left, then you are in the wrong position to hit the apex on turn 2 (a 180 degree left hander). This will cost you a lot of speed and time. The same applies at turn 9 that Greg mentions -- if you are too fast entering turn 9, you will exit way right and will not be able to enter turn 10 with any chance of having a good line from which to accelerate out of the turn onto the front straight. Greg also mentions blind turns. The car goes where you look, and if you don't know the course and don't look where the asphalt goes (whether you can see it or not), then you may not hold a good line. Like I said earlier, it is a pretty technical course and a blast to drive.

Pappy

[GregWeld]

To answer Scott's question, I guess the most important thing to remember is that exit speed (off a corner) is more important than entry speed. If you blast around turn one, a 300 ft. radius/180 right turn and exit way to the left, then you are in the wrong position to hit the apex on turn 2 (a 180 degree left hander). This will cost you a lot of speed and time. The same applies at turn 9 that Greg mentions -- if you are too fast entering turn 9, you will exit way right and will not be able to enter turn 10 with any chance of having a good line from which to accelerate out of the turn onto the front straight. Greg also mentions blind turns. The car goes where you look, and if you don't know the course and don't look where the asphalt goes (whether you can see it or not), then you may not hold a good line. Like I said earlier, it is a pretty technical course and a blast to drive.

Pappy

Pappy --- If I learned nothing else in these schools -- I learned one of the most important things about driving - track or street - LOOK UP AND LOOK AHEAD LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO... they beat that into my silly little head - and they are SO RIGHT!

The reason I came up the hill from 10 and was able to see the spinout ahead of me around the corner? I was looking around the corner! That made me a believer!

[ironworks]

I have not taken any formal training, And I'm sure that would be an advantage. But I have done track days and raced different things for years. At PRI last year I came across this online simulator that is Flat out awesome. It is called Iracing.com. You pay 13 bucks a month and can race with other guys online any time. I hate video games because they are not even close to real. But this was developed for drivers to get track time at different tracks. They have Laguna Seca, Daytona road course, Road America, Sebring, VIR, Barber Motorsports park, Lime Rock, Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen, and a few more road courses, They have a ton of Oval tracks. There are tons of cars and tons of tracks. You can practice by your self, or in a group, you can time trial, you can qualify and then race.

What I have found is Training is great, But practice is just great also. This teaches you, your apexes and car control for braking, getting off the gas and back on for different cars. I have really learned alot in the 8 months I have been racing. The base model steering wheel is about 250 bucks and it comes with pedals and shifter. It is called the Logictec G25.

I know James Shipka has a subscription , Tyler B has raced on it at my house. John Lim, Novanutcase has raced on it, Brian Mc has raced on there also, It is not a video game in any way shape of form. It is amazing how nervous you can get lining up with 50 other guys to race online in your living room. I race 3-4 times a week, it is a blast.

You might check that out also. If you have more questions, let me know. If you sign up let me know, and enter my email so I get some credit. [email protected]

Rodger

[GregWeld]

@ Rodger

I'd think - with all the big bucks you're making on the fabulous cars you're building - that you'd have a REAL steering wheel and cockpit too!! Like this one!!! :lol:

OOPS --- I tried to cut and paste the "image address" -- it no workie!

So just search for FANATEC.COM --- and check out the RENN SPORT COCKPIT!! WAY KOOL!!


Oh yeah... I can see this now... he's got the drawing board out and building a better one as we speak! Lots of "lightening holes" - cage - SS flowmasters... with speakers that shake your brains...
:cheers: :woot:

[ironworks]

Thanks Greg, But believe me a tube chassis cockpit has been thought though a few times. My Steering wheel is attached to a $20 card table and has speakers laid where ever with a 32" flat screen set very close to the wheel. It sits more like a Peterbuilt then a race car, but it sure is fun. Just no time and or Extra funds. I have a very expensive Hobby, I mean addiction.....

CST make some bitchen pedals and those would be a great improvemnt over the stock Logitech pedals. But it is good enough for now.

[Vegas69]

That looks like a blast and cheap too, Rodger. I'll have to look into some more when I have some time.

[ironworks]

There are races every hour or so and you can practice anytime 24 hours a day. They give you a a handful of track and cars to start with and you have to buy each othe rone you want. Everyone on there is serious about there driving and scoring so there are no bang up crash up idiots. There are idiots that wreck you but not on purpose. I have raced with Dale JR, Joey Lagano, Marcus Ambrose, and a few others on there. They usually have a pro license, But they also race in the free for all races once in a while.

Totally fun.