Auxillary Injection ONLY ::: NO INTERCOOLER

[stylEmon]

I thought ya'll might like to see the results of my latest data log.
Specs are Garret T04E .60 compressor, 1.24 turbine
Tubular manifold, tail 38mm wastegate, 9 lbs spring.

Devil's Own 150 psi pump
50/50 distilled water/methanol
M2 nozzle pre-compressor
M7 nozzle post compressor


I especially like how the AIT keeps going down as the boost and RPM go up. :wow:

[camcojb]

yep, I use water injection on every forced induction build I do, cheap insurance.

Jody

[stylEmon]

I am using only AI for intercooling. I may eventually run an intercooler as well, that way it will truly be insurance.

Do you use devil's own or aquamist?

[camcojb]

I am using only AI for intercooling. I may eventually run an intercooler as well, that way it will truly be insurance.

Do you use devil's own or aquamist?

by insurance I meant it really helps prevent detonation, allows more timing and boost on pump gas also. I've used most every brand out there, currently running Snow Performance.

Jody

[stylEmon]

i see what you mean by insurance. Most people I've run into use AI in addition to physical intercoolers.

I would run pure methanol for the cooling. But I run at least 25% water for detonation deterrent. Since it's cold, I've gone up to 50/50.

[camcojb]

i see what you mean by insurance. Most people I've run into use AI in addition to physical intercoolers.

I would run pure methanol for the cooling. But I run at least 25% water for detonation deterrent. Since it's cold, I've gone up to 50/50.

water is a much better heat absorber than methanol. The methanol does give a slight octane boost, and adds additional fueling since it burns (which may or may not be an advantage), but for pure heat absorption go straight water.

I had a procharged 540 without an intercooler and straight water injection, made over 800 rwhp with our crappy 91 octane. The stuff definitely works with or without an intercooler.

Jody

[stylEmon]

I've heard MANY people say water has better cooling properties, but in all the logs I've seen from my own car, the more methanol, the colder in the intake charge. Maybe alcohol has less cooling than water, but methanol...?

[camcojb]

I've heard MANY people say water has better cooling properties, but in all the logs I've seen from my own car, the more methanol, the colder in the intake charge. Maybe alcohol has less cooling than water, but methanol...?

Water is a much better heat absorber than alcohol/methanol. I think the big benefit happens in the combustion chamber, not air temp drops. But if it works for you.................. :thumbsup:


a quick Google found this:

Is water injection a proven technology for improving engine performance?

Similar to the benefits of using hydrous ethanol blends, many water injection systems for high performance engines use a mixture of water and alcohol (approximately 50/50). The water provides the primary cooling effect for air and fuel injection mixtures due to its great density and high heat absorption properties. Water instantly reduces air intake charge temperatures by 50-200 plus °F. This provides a substantially cooler and denser air charge for greater expansion of power within the combustion chamber. It is becoming quite common to find engine builders using 91-93 octane gasoline combined with water/alcohol injection to support engines well over 1000+ horsepower. One top engine builder in the industry has already made upwards of 1700+ horsepower with a ProCharger supercharger carbureted big block Chevrolet on 93 octane regular unleaded gas using 100% water injection.

Jody

[stylEmon]

Are they talking about the car you built? :D

[6D9]

I plan on running water injection on my new Procharger set up without a intercooler. I hope it will allow 6-8 psi on 91 with my sorta high 9.8 to 1 comp.

[camcojb]

I plan on running water injection on my new Procharger set up without a intercooler. I hope it will allow 6-8 psi on 91 with my sorta high 9.8 to 1 comp.

yes it will.

Jody

[6D9]

yes it will.

Jody


I cant wait!!! I will have to drive it down with Troy when its all done so you can give your 2 cents on tuning it. I hope its enough boost to get me into the 10's....:unibrow:

[stylEmon]

I think the big benefit happens in the combustion chamber, not air temp drops.

now i see why you are saying water has better cooling properties... in the combustion chamber.

I was originally talking about AIT... that was what I pointed out in the log. My Air temps are much colder when using methanol, but if i were to log my EGTs, then I would see the improvement with using water.

You kinda took my point in a different direction...

I agree that water gives you a bigger benefit in the combustion chamber, but I cannot dilute the importance of a true cold air charge... Especially in AZ ;)

[camcojb]

now i see why you are saying water has better cooling properties... in the combustion chamber.

I was originally talking about AIT... that was what I pointed out in the log. My Air temps are much colder when using methanol, but if i were to log my EGTs, then I would see the improvement with using water.

You kinda took my point in a different direction...

I agree that water gives you a bigger benefit in the combustion chamber, but I cannot dilute the importance of a true cold air charge... Especially in AZ ;)


water is a better heat absorber anywhere. I do not know why your air temps are lower with meth added, they shouldn't be, but I do not argue with your results. My point about "in the combustion chamber" meant the main benefit is there, not in lowered air temps. In other words, low air temps are not as important to me as the better excess heat absorption in the chamber. 6 of one, half a dozen of another, whatever works.

Jody

[stylEmon]

If I spray water only into my intake tubing, and touch the tube, it's a little cooler than ambient.

If I spray methanol only, and touch the tube, it's instantly freezing cold.

The air is going to be much colder with methanol than with water. I am not saying methanol is a better heat absorber, but it lowers intake temps more than water.

low air temps are not as important to me as the better excess heat absorption in the chamber

I agree there as far as 'insurance' for the motor, and being able to keep egt's low. BUT: A cold air charge adds lots of power... Just think about the difference between summer and winter driving with Forced Induction.

The power gains with colder air are important in my opinion, but not as important as safety for the motor. That's why I like 50/50.

[camcojb]

If I spray water only into my intake tubing, and touch the tube, it's a little cooler than ambient.

If I spray methanol only, and touch the tube, it's instantly freezing cold.

The air is going to be much colder with methanol than with water. I am not saying methanol is a better heat absorber, but it lowers intake temps more than water.



I agree there as far as 'insurance' for the motor, and being able to keep egt's low. BUT: A cold air charge adds lots of power... Just think about the difference between summer and winter driving with Forced Induction.

The power gains with colder air are important in my opinion, but not as important as safety for the motor. That's why I like 50/50.

alrighty then..................... :D

[deuce_454]

both water and meth has advantages, water keeps temps down and prevents detonation, so does meth.. both cools the charge, one more than the other... and one adds octane.. but the important thing is that the effects are additive, and used together the effect is better than running just one....

the MW50 mix was first used and perfected by the masters of engineering and supercharging... the germans in ww2 :thumbsup: . and that is good enough for me to accept it as the supperior solution...

[stylEmon]

I believe it's pronounced "Zee Germanzzzz" :rofl: