Advantage and Disadvantage of 8 individual Throttlebodies.

[hannes_slanec]

I am just about to design an intake for my 540 twin turbo and through the fact that I have a unusual design it would be nice to go with single TB´s.
I dont want to go to deep into it, I just want to know if it is a good solution since I saw it by other cars with inline 6ers.

I can come out of the intercooler with 4 pipes per side (dont try to compare it with usual intakes, it looks totally different), then I would need to go together for the TB just to go apart to 4 again.
That is why I ask.

I want to go with the Electromotive EFI and wonder if it can handle the 8 TB´s.

Thanks Hannes

[Pantera EFI]

I believe that we are one of the best, largest, sellers of
Individual Throttle Bodies.

Pantera EFI, Redline EFI, TWM Induction, Dynatek Racing, 034Motorsports are some of the resellers.

What you will gain:
Throttle responce
Ram effect of the air into the cylinder
A "large cammed" engine will run smooth at Idle and low speeds
Even air flow when properly synchronized
The turbo pressure will "sit" on the top of the butterfly, close to the port with
ALL of the inlet track "filled" with high pressure air

Our LS-1/2 "stack", ITB's when dyno tested on a stock
LS-2, out performed the Corvette intake in the ranges that we could "pull" 2400-6500 RPM with a 55 HP at peak RPM increase.

The EMS system you chose SHOULD have a seperate fuel injector channel for each port TIMED to provide fuel at low duty cycle events to synchronize with the airflow demand created by an open valve.

Lance

[Bowtieracing]

But do your home work before baying any. Ask around of low speed throttle response and ease of tune.

Look factor is best - thats for sure:cool:

[camcojb]

Lance,

how large of a throttle body do you offer for the LS engines, and what cfm do they flow?

Advantages, all of the above, plus looks are killer. Disadvantages can be not flowing enough air on a high cfm naturally aspirated combo, having to plumb map, IAC, etc. lines to each port and then to a ,common plenum of some sort, and cost. Of course none of these is that big of a deal as I loved my IR setup.

I only ask about the airflow as that happened with my Hilborn setup. They use 2 1/16 throttle blades which sound large, but they flow under 300 cfm even at that size. With an IR setup you don't have a common plenum to "borrow" from, each runner is individual with it's own throttle blade, and so whatever that can flow is it. Now you have a set of AFR or ET Performance CNC heads that flow 340-350 cfm out of the box and you can see that too small of an IR setup will cost power on a n/a setup. Forced induction not so critical as the air is compressed.

Bottom line, it's a very cool way to go, just make sure the airflow suits your needs.

Jody

[Pantera EFI]

As for "Bowtie", I would add that the ITB's that I manufacture ALL include a LARGE PASSAGE WAY to interconnect to ALL ports under the air doors.
With this method the air pressure is EQUAL at Idle/Low speed to all of the ports AND the signal required by the MAP sensor is STRONG.

As for "airflow" I agree, the size is very important.

My LS-1/2 "stacks' feature a 2.5" (63.5mm) size and are
"aligned" to increase the swirl into the cylinder.

Flow ? do the math !

When connected to any of the heads sold, they will increase the flow of air into the port.

BOOST, sure, no not with the turbo.

The MAP and BARO sensors are board mounted with my ECU's (2 seperate 100% real time)

The result "data logged" shows that on a 101 KPA day,
the MAP sensor will record a pressure of 108-110 KPA in the runner at peak torque.

Thats Boost, without a supercharger !

Lance

[hannes_slanec]

Here is the plan of my new outlaying design.

I wanted to crate a intake solution for especially for twin turbo street engines.


I wanted to have a very compact system with very short ways that fits in every car.
It may look big but notice that there is no intake, oilpan or anything else on the block, that makes the block looking small.

Since I drive a quite high static compression for a turbo car (I want to have a good efficiency off boost) I design it twin liquid to air intercooled.

To keep the air further as cool as possible I dont go with usual lifter valley intake so no head can be transfered to the intake.

I hope that I can keep the pipe from the turbo to the intercooler under 10-12" to have the lessest pressure drop possible.
On the intercooler outlet usually the air will be collected to get forced through the throttle body just to get apart for its way to each single intake port.

At this point I thought I convert the intercooler the way that it got 4 outlets per cooler and straight in the heads, the TB is anywere between (in the case of that plan mounted on the intercooler to have looong runners).

The injectors are placed well so that they spray directly in the intake ports of the heads.

The fine thing of that concept is that it is easy to mount if it is produced and can be assembled outside the car. One can dyno it and hang it in the car just after it.


The plan got still some mistakes, for example the headers are to big, so the intercooler seems to sit behind instead of above but remember, I made it all from pics that I found in the web. It is not that easy since the perspective must be identical.

OK, tell me your opinion.

What runner lenght would I need for a 540 that should start spooling at 3500-4000rpm and have its power peak rather in the mid range?


Thanks


The attachment management did not work so follow the link to see the plan.


http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/hannes_slanec/BilletBrackets.jpg


.

[Pantera EFI]

What you ask for is IMPOSSIBLE !

You could do a Helmholtz resonator intake ?

Lance

[hannes_slanec]

What you ask for is IMPOSSIBLE !

You could do a Helmholtz resonator intake ?

Lance

No idea what that is:question:


What exactly is impossible, I can mount the TB´s (also only a pair)
in any spot of the intake runner to adjust the right length, dont know what you mean.

Thanks

[Pantera EFI]

OK, if you want the ITB's, you would require a "runner" length of 32", now a
cross ram ?

Lance, BTW, try Google for the HELMHOLTZ intake.

[hannes_slanec]

OK, if you want the ITB's, you would require a "runner" length of 32", now a
cross ram ?

Lance, BTW, try Google for the HELMHOLTZ intake.

I did it, thanks for the advise, I found a very interesting site with the formulas to calculate that.

But they recommend rather short runners for peaks around 4000rpm.
But that Heimholtz maths seems to be very interesting.

I dont need the ITBs by all means but with my intake I can at least tube the runners.


Thanks Hannes

[ironworks]

Don't forget Kinsler, One of the few companies that designs their unit for racing. It is not a Flashy street unit. My 402 LS2 made 600hp and over 500 ft lbs of torque from 3500 on up. It peaked at about 600 at 4500.

Only disadvantage is cost.

Rodger

[deuce_454]

i have an enderle stack unit converted to efi i am willing to part with

[hannes_slanec]

i have an enderle stack unit converted to efi i am willing to part with

Pictures?

Thanks Hannes

[deuce_454]

here is the only one i have on this PC... will take some more and post soon
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s295/deuce_454/Me/252219se1Jakob_Regeur_cd_01.jpg
the fuelrails are stainless and sits between the runners, i have both stacks and K&N filters for it, TPS is included, butterflies are 2-5/8 inches 66.7mm and can be mashined to 3 inches if you so desire,