Muttstang

[57hemicuda]

I've been posting my Mustang project over at Pro Touring,but I kinda feel like my Cuda was featured here so:For those who haven't seen it.I found a total peice of crap Mustang Fastback in a junkyard for $400 and thought I would challenge myself to build as exotic a Pro Touring car as I could for $5000.Built the chassis from scratch,with C5 corvette front suspension,and Nascar truck arm stuck I got off of Ebay,tried the Ford Mod Motor route,but found it to be too expensive,so I sold it and went the LS1 route.Rear is a Dana 60 with 410's and a powerlock out of an old Mopar powered bread truck.Sheetmetal is dirt cheap for mustangs so most of the panels have been replaced.The width of the C5 vette stuff forced me to go the Imsa Monza wide body route.I truthfully have already blown the budget,with the last pile of sheetmetal I purchased,the budget is floating around $6,240. http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/gallery/6357389_pKQdb#408514066_RN8P8
http://troyboy468.smugmug.com/Other/Rons-Mustang/IMG2107/250955866_MTBWF-L.jpg
http://troyboy468.smugmug.com/Other/Rons-Mustang/IMG2133/250964273_aQYNP-L.jpg
http://troyboy468.smugmug.com/Other/Rons-Mustang/IMG2145/250968659_3Le7f-L.jpg
http://troyboy468.smugmug.com/Other/Rons-Mustang/IMG4259/365235105_vtHNU-L.jpg

[lhkustoms]

:ttiwop: I've been posting my Mustang project over at Pro Touring,but I kinda feel like my Cuda was featured here so:For those who haven't seen it.I found a total peice of crap Mustang Fastback in a junkyard for $400 and thought I would challenge myself to build as exotic a Pro Touring car as I could for $5000.Built the chassis from scratch,with C5 corvette front suspension,and Nascar truck arm stuck I got off of Ebay,tried the Ford Mod Motor route,but found it to be too expensive,so I sold it and went the LS1 route.Rear is a Dana 60 with 410's and a powerlock out of an old Mopar powered bread truck.Sheetmetal is dirt cheap for mustangs so most of the panels have been replaced.The width of the C5 vette stuff forced me to go the Imsa Monza wide body route.I truthfully have already blown the budget,with the last pile of sheetmetal I purchased,the budget is floating around $6,240. http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/gallery/6357389_pKQdb#408514066_RN8P8
:ttiwwop:

[linkstar69]

:ttiwop:
:ttiwwop:

click on the link.......

[byndbad914]

pretty cool - I like these sorta projects! And the LS engine for all intents and purposes is really just GM taking the small block Ford and perfecting it, which Ford should have done v. that mod motor mess IMO :thumbsup: so it is more appropriate in many aspects than the mod motor would have been.

Keep the pix coming as progress is made. Immediately reminded me of Libby's car - I suspect you are aware of it but if not pix are on this site - he did some cool stuff with older Fords as well (his Fairlane was in PHR mag and also on this site)

http://www.lateral-g.net/members/libbymustang

[aussiebj]

This build was the inspiration for my build up.Keep up the great work.
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=16956

[Technosurfer]

Thanks for sharing the link with us, it will help me a lot.

[57hemicuda]

Finished the quarters,still not sure if I'm going to put some sort of trim ring on the side vent.Made most of the wheelwells out of an old Ford van side.She's looking really pretty fat{I don't mean phat}What a pile.Can't wait to get started on the front fenders. http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/

[silver63c10]

Looks wicked, man, that is going to be killer when you get it done. Glad to see someone else going the truck arm route, makes me feel a little less crazy :lol:

[camcojb]

I love the low-buck route; makes me wish I was better at it.

Jody

[XcYZ]

Wow, awesome pics. What a cool project.

[lhkustoms]

looking awsome you done an incredible job :cheers:

[57hemicuda]

Constructing belly pan in the back,Ive got to come up with some weight savings ideas,too much metal in this car.Ron

[57hemicuda]

Got the tail panel fitted looks kind of like a Mustang again.Love this angle of picture for some reason.Ron

[57hemicuda]

Check out the big american bulges,it turned out to be just about a foot wider then a factory Mustang.Kind of looks funny.Ron

[57hemicuda]

Got the fenders fabbed and most of the hood hinges done.Ron

[speedfreak68]

Thats really cool I'm lovin the wide fender look. And your work is looking pretty amazing. :hail:

[ironworks]

That is super cool

[radrambler]

thanks for the update
its gonna look great with that widebody all slicked out.
keep the pics coming

tom

[andrewmp6]

Look great to me the flares look better then the fiberglass ones they sell for it.Any thoughts on Shelby side windows or filling them in.Or running a r model rear window?

[57hemicuda]

I've made some covers for the side windows,but I kind of like the vents also.The rear window will have to be the factory one that I have,a high dollar R model one isn't in the budget.The paint is going to be a solid color{haven't desided yet} with flat black on the tops of the hood and fenders.Ron

[Novette_71]

:thumbsup: really cool pics and project , nice rims too ....

love it !!!

[57hemicuda]

Got a few of the down bar bent and welded.Ron

[57hemicuda]

Got the coil and radiator mounts made,hoping to be making smoke very soon.The cool part about the way the chassis is made,is that I can terrorize the neighborhood with no front clip on the car.Can't wait.Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/gallery/6357389_pKQdb

[57hemicuda]

Got the brakes up,getting ready to fire it up,love the way the fenders come off so easy and the hood flips that far forward.Ron

[57hemicuda]

Here are some pics of the cars first blast down the street,still cleaning the bugs out of my teeth. Ron http://troyboy468.smugmug.com/gallery/4282927_HN3dp#P-6-15

[Payton King]

thread. This car is so much more than Muttstang. One of my favorite builds in quite some time.

Mustang/ Corvette hybrid would even give a better description.

So have you hammered on it yet? Enough power?

[DOOM]

:thumbsup: :cool:

[57hemicuda]

Yeah Payton,it just blows the tires off.Roads up in the country where I live aren't exactly perfect.I really have to start the beautification process though,until the car has some glass in it I won't get a true sense of how it feels.{Everything feels fast when the wind is in your face}.Ron

[Jr]

Ron,
Thanks for posting your pictures.

Your car looks tough...I like picture #79. :thumbsup:

[57hemicuda]

How do you guys like the strap and chain dragging behind the car in the pics?There is no back shocks installed,I put the car on the lift,and to limit axle droop,I had to strap the rear up.The truck arm suspension will completely unload,to 90 degrees to the frame,tearing the brake lines off.In my haste to do burnouts,I forgot to unhook them{lucky I din't runover them}Ron

[nvr2fst]

This is going to be one heck of a car.

[57hemicuda]

Started roughing in the front fenders,pretty happy with how it turned out.The hard part is trying to keep both sides exactly the same.

[57hemicuda]

Got the one side roughed in this weekend,its hard to beleive this car is going to be painted and in Georgia May 14th.Check out the waistline of the widebody.Ron

[acohoon]

That is so awesome. I like it more than any mustang I have ever seen already.

[Payton King]

Down in Ga. When are you driving down? Are you going to do it in one shot?

[57hemicuda]

I should be down thursday evening Payton,I'm so worn out and tired from thrashing on this thing,I hope I don't fall asleep at the wheel on my ride down.Man I'm beat,must be age.Ron

[SteveMcqueenRules]

pretty cool - I like these sorta projects! And the LS engine for all intents and purposes is really just GM taking the small block Ford and perfecting it, which Ford should have done v. that mod motor mess IMO :thumbsup: so it is more appropriate in many aspects than the mod motor would have been.

Keep the pix coming as progress is made. Immediately reminded me of Libby's car - I suspect you are aware of it but if not pix are on this site - he did some cool stuff with older Fords as well (his Fairlane was in PHR mag and also on this site)

http://www.lateral-g.net/members/libbymustang

What? So GM just took the Ford Small block and perfected it? You base this on what?
Anways
Very cool mustang. It definitely looks heavily modified but manages to keep its Mustang charm. Can't wait to see this one done.

[CptKlutz]

Love the exterior, not that many are done properly like this with the bulging fenders. And a Chevy motor in a Stang? Kinda like tits on a man, but hey whatever gets it going! :lol:

[Payton King]

You have to pass through Charlotte on your way to Ga. From my house it will be another 3 to 3.5 hours to Canton. We can get up and drive down together Friday morning.

I will treat you to beer and a big fat steak.

[57hemicuda]

Got some color on it fiinally!!Metal to color in 2 weeks,amazes me.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/529102872_dQXoA-XL.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/529102794_L9sWi-L.jpg

[byndbad914]

What? So GM just took the Ford Small block and perfected it? You base this on what?
Have you ever had an LS apart? Take the LS engine apart, take a 289/302/351W apart and lay them side by side and you will see incredible similarities, especially if you tear apart a 350 and lay it down as well. The LS is far more a next iteration of the 90deg Ford platform than the SBC platform.

The head gaskets on the LS are damn near exactly the same as a SBF - to the point of uncanny. I was astonished the first time I saw an LS head gasket having built a ton of both GM and Ford engines and immediately thought it was a SBF gasket that was somehow mixed in by accident.

It is just too bad that GM didn't use the taller 9.5" deck height v. the more Cleveland-like deck - you could get a better stroker out of them. My blood ran Ford blue until the the mod motor started changing my taste and LS engine series and 6th gen Vettes have virtually nailed the coffin shut.

Back on topic, the color looks great! Is that Grabber blue? And man, that girl's got some hips! :D

[Bryce]

i like the color great choice, But what is with the paint on the axle housing and brakes? were those just mock up items?

[SteveMcqueenRules]

Have you ever had an LS apart? Take the LS engine apart, take a 289/302/351W apart and lay them side by side and you will see incredible similarities, especially if you tear apart a 350 and lay it down as well. The LS is far more a next iteration of the 90deg Ford platform than the SBC platform.
:D

So GM took a 30 year old motor from Ford A motor that is inferior to an SBC and just updated it?:rolleyes:

[57hemicuda]

Really love this part of the project,when it starts turning into a car.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/530074858_gnkHM-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/530074888_5W5db-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/530074800_FSLtw-L.jpg

[Ventoso]

So GM took a 30 year old motor from Ford A motor that is inferior to an SBC and just updated it?:rolleyes:

Big words.

Both the early SBC and SBF motors have flaws, but one of the dumbest things Chevy ever did was drive the oil pump and distributor at the end of the motor opposite the timing chain. At high RPM's you can get some seriously funky-ass torsional twist on anything shy of a billet core cam, and even then, a good custom cam grinder will actually compensate with a "twist" ground into the cam to alleviate shifting valve events at high RPM.



Sorry for the hi-jack, car looks awesome. :thumbsup:

[SVPJason]

i like the color great choice, But what is with the paint on the axle housing and brakes? were those just mock up items?

that's just what I was thinking!!!

[byndbad914]

57 - you probably missed my question and I have no desire to educate others on engine design anyway.... what color is that? Grabber blue?

Also, I really like what you did around the window areas - looks really smooth and blended.

[57hemicuda]

Its 2010 Mustang Grabber Blue,I don't know if its the same as the old Grabber Blue or not.Sun has been hiding in these parts for weeks,finally came out yesterday,and I took acoupe pics.Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/530816276_zyJ9F-L.jpg


http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/530816210_segJX-L.jpg

[57hemicuda]

Getting more of the sheetmetal sprayed and installed.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/534247312_Pwr5x-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/534247289_DonRJ-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/534247347_XpqjV-L.jpg

[joe440]

lookin good:thumbsup:

[Payton King]

Can't wait to see it

[city_ofthe_south]

Great color choice. Any stripes? Or numbers maybe?

[57hemicuda]

Here is the car going sideways through the AutoX in Georgia

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/540908276_Cofmh-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/540662589_unvgn-L.jpg

[Bryce]

awesome, how was it to drive?

[Rybar]

Here is the car going through the sideways through the AutoX in Georgia

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/540908276_Cofmh-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/540662589_unvgn-L.jpg

Those are sweet pics Ron, that is killer you got it done and running :thumbsup:

[dodge]

Car looks great :thumbsup: ...Can you be any more casual while driving:P :lol:

[57hemicuda]

The car was very stable and predictable.I felt like I could eat a sandwich while going through the turns.LOL.Seriously,if the car had someone who knew what they were doing driving it,it would have done pretty well.I had so much fun though,it would be hard to pry the keys from my hand.Ron

[radrambler]

very cool

it looks great ...been watching the build and enjoyed your transformation of a ....left for no good junkyard fastback into a street machine

so how close to the original build budget did you keep it...?
whats the weight of the car?
it looks fun ....
can you post more pics of what it looks like under the hood ,finished or not ..

congrats :thumbsup:

tom

[byndbad914]

that turned out looking great! Seeing it on an AX reminds me a bit of this one too ;) but much nicer fit/finish

[57hemicuda]

Make some upgrades to big Baer brakes,needed to upgrade wheels to fit the 15" rotors.CCW wheels just came in 18x11 front 18x 13 rear.They are taking a little time to grow on me,but they are works of art. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257278_bNfKc-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257383_FD37g-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257707_VU9q2-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257310_T5ZU4-L.jpg

[nvr2fst]

The CCWs are great looking wheels, dont see to many on stangs no matter what the year.Talk about filling in the gap with the 15" rotors. Car looks killer, nice stance.

[dmc69]

Wheels, hood, brakes, and stance.....it all looks good.

[radrambler]

HOLY BIG ASS BRAKE UPGRADES BATMAN !!


:brix:

LOVE THIS BUILD, AMAZING WHAT YOUVE DONE WITH THIS FORMER JUNK YARD STANG...RECYCLING AT ITS FINEST
HAVE YOU HAD THE CAR ON SCALES? WEIGHT?

TOM

[Norm Peterson]

Make some upgrades to big Baer brakes,needed to upgrade wheels to fit the 15" rotors.CCW wheels just came in 18x11 front 18x 13 rear.They are taking a little to grow on me,but they are works of art. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257383_FD37g-L.jpg
Just what size tires are those, Ron? I can't seem to find that info anywhere.


Your car is precisely the sort of build that I'd like to do the whole of instead of mostly just chipping around the edges of.


Norm

[HWY Nova]

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257707_VU9q2-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257310_T5ZU4-L.jpg

With the addition of the rims and brakes, where are you budget-wise?


--Eric

[57hemicuda]

I got the 15" Baer front brakes new off the Corvette forum for $1400,the rear 14" Baer's aren't in yet $1600.The wheels 18x11 & 18x13 CCW's $2900. The car was floating around $9000, so I'm at about $15,000 minus what ever I sell my old wheels and brakes for.Only have the front brakes installed ,but it is a MAJOR improvement in stopping. Ron

[57hemicuda]

Just what size tires are those, Ron? I can't seem to find that info anywhere.


Your car is precisely the sort of build that I'd like to do the whole of instead of mostly just chipping around the edges of.


Norm

The tire are 275-18 and 335-18 bfg's,and the car weighed 2750 before paint and fuel,I would imagine its about 2900 now,or 3100 with me in the car.

[57hemicuda]

Don't know if anyone saw this or not but,the LS1 in my Mustang let go at RTTH(rod came out the side of the block). Grant, the owner of Temptress got this video of the carnage, check out the guy at the left of the screen kick my rod across the parking lot. Ron

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRWaitc8oWU

[MoparCar]

I saw the carnage over on pt.com. Wow. Sorry about the motor, but this build and car is one of my favorites. You nailed the style and substance. Great video for us to watch.....probably painful for you.

Thanks, Wes

[tazzz2_ca]

Hey Ron it was a pleasure meeting you at the RTTH's...... As I said there, I think your car is so cool buddy. I was happy to see it when down there as I had admired it from the photos of the Motor State Challenge... You know I think it's my favorite Mustang to date period....

I wish we hadn't slept through the auto X (heck us Canadian's never had great sense of time anyways LOL) as I would have love to see how the car handles first hand.... Anyways, we'll see you at the Motor State in the spring (maybe sooner else where) I hope bud.

Albert
(from Toronto with Green Formula)

[57hemicuda]

Thanks Albert,loved your car as well. Slept thru the Auto X?? You Canadians drinking some beer the night before (Ah).LOL Real good meeting you. Ron

[tazzz2_ca]

LOL what can I say Ron,,, that Canadian beer can pack a punch when consumed in copious amounts after a long day of "Flatbed touring of the Hills" ROFLMAO... Next year I'll be sure to eliminate the "IDE" error (idiot driver error) and put a full tank of gas in the Formula.....

On a serious note, we were up till 4am consuming multiple beers and walking main street.... I don't think Bill (or any of the other participants) would have appreciated a,,, shall we say challenged driver or at the very least a seriously hungover one LOL...

[city_ofthe_south]

bet if any of trans am drivers could see this thing today they'd be begging to go racing

[70rs]

The car turned out just AWESOME! I love it!! Sorry about loosing the motor. But now you have a valid excuse to build a stronger one right? Nothing wrong with more power...:D

[57hemicuda]

Started the assembly of my replacement LS7. Check out the bore differnce between The ls7 and LS1. Putting some good rod bolts in it in the hopes I won't have a relapse.Should have assembled this weekend

Going to try to put the car on a little diet, in the hopes I can get as much weight out of the car as the dry sump crap weighs. Tank and 3 gallons of oil is heavier then you think. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-008/796400021_gwrhc-L.jpg

http://troyboy468.smugmug.com/Other/Run-Through-The-Hills-09-2/IMG1365/659213551_UVVMD-L.jpg

[radrambler]

Ron

Glad to see your getting it going again..A TRUE HOME GARAGE BUILT MACHINE THATS KICK A$$. :thumbsup:

Tom

[Payton King]

You really need to re-name this thread. "Muttstang" does not even come close to do this thing justice. I cannot come up with what you would call it, but if you relisted it...Ron's junk out in the open, would probably get you more hits and maybe a date. LOL

[Vegas69]

Coming from the proud owner of Dead Cat. :rofl:

[tazzz2_ca]

Started the assembly of my replacement LS7. Check out the bore differnce between The ls7 and LS1. Putting some good rod bolts in it in the hopes I won't have a relapse.Should have assembled this weekend

Going to try to put the car on a little diet, in the hopes I can get as much weight out of the car as the dry sump crap weighs. Tank and 3 gallons of oil is heavier then you think. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-008/796400021_gwrhc-L.jpg

http://troyboy468.smugmug.com/Other/Run-Through-The-Hills-09-2/IMG1365/659213551_UVVMD-L.jpg


Man I love this car,,,,,, Ron you did a killer job buddy and I can't wait to have you out with the pack again bud....

[57hemicuda]

You really need to re-name this thread. "Muttstang" does not even come close to do this thing justice. I cannot come up with what you would call it, but if you relisted it...Ron's junk out in the open, would probably get you more hits and maybe a date. LOL

Ron's junk out in the open? Thats the title of the thread I have on the OTHER web site I frequent. Only gotten like 2 hits,and alot of bad feedback. LOL

Lets see we could call it, a whole bunch of mismatched sh*t on one chassis, or maybe, ZO6 Mustang. I'll have to think about it awhile, I really wouldn't know how to change it anyway. Ron

[ironworks]

How about, "The Mustang that was supposed to cost 5 grand."

Bitchin car Ron. I have Lurked for a while watching it come togther. I love the color.

[6spdcamaro]

Make some upgrades to big Baer brakes,needed to upgrade wheels to fit the 15" rotors.CCW wheels just came in 18x11 front 18x 13 rear.They are taking a little to grow on me,but they are works of art. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257278_bNfKc-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257383_FD37g-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257707_VU9q2-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/photos/606257310_T5ZU4-L.jpg

Those wheels look awesome. I'm surprised that they clear the brakes. I thought 18's were only good for 14" rotors. Brakes look awesome :)

[57hemicuda]

How about, "The Mustang that was supposed to cost 5 grand."

Bitchin car Ron. I have Lurked for a while watching it come togther. I love the color.

Amen brother.
I think the initial build ended up at 9K, but the upgrades have now exceeded that by quite a bit. It's floating aroung 21k(over 4 times the initial budget). Maybe the name should be Congressional Budget Mustang, probably fits better. Ron

[Payton King]

so Todd is dogging me now with a call sign of "Vegas 69"? LOL...don't even get me started.

Those wheels and brakes are all business, to me they fit the car perfectly. I have owned cars with rims smaller than your rotors

[WILWAXU]

How about, "The Mustang that was supposed to cost 5 grand."

Bitchin car Ron. I have Lurked for a while watching it come togther. I love the color.

It's now project 5K in brakes :D

I agree, killer car! :thumbsup:

[CMCResto.com]

Pretty cool man!

[57hemicuda]

Got my LS7 built last night, had to change the reluctor wheel to 24x, because I couldn't find a translator. Figured I'd put bearings in it while it was apart. Engine only had 2900 miles, but I could tell they were hard miles.

Picked up a carbon fiber Nascar air cleaner, can't deside if I'm going to go orange with Chevrolet valve covers or blue with Ford valve covers, either way it should be in by the weekend. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-017/816959459_dJghb-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-019/816959494_ia9uH-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-023/816959546_ue4qR-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-024/816959584_WYmk5-L.jpg

[Payton King]

I think the orange would clash with red fuel rails. I like the Chevy valve covers the way they are. If you need to paint them, I would go the same color blue that you used on the car.

Do you think I could get my own show on "HGTV?"

The air cleaner...well that is pretty bad ass right there.

[tazzz2_ca]

Dam Ron you just keep stepping things up a notch...... Congratulations on the new motor and I can't wait to see this car rock this year!!!!

I'd leave the valve covers raw and likely have the tops machined and then Laser etched with "Muttstang".... Most sign shops can do the etching for cheap money and it's just a nice touch especially on a polished piece....

[57hemicuda]

Thanks Albert,that is too cool. I would have no idea how to photoshop that, or what ever you did.

I've tried to keep this thing as old Trans-Am looking as I could. I always hated the way the LS1 looked in the car, but it was all about the budget so it was what it was. The budget is now blown, so I'm doing what I want. That is why I went with the 4 bbl type intake and I'm pretty sure I'm going to run the Yates type 351 valve covers, who knows I might eventually run a Yates motor.

Thanks again, Ron

[GrabberGT]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to run the Yates type 351 valve covers, who knows I might eventually run a Yates motor.

Thanks again, Ron

Awesome. Its going to look cool.

[jr421]

Ron-

All I can say is that out of all the builds I have looked at online your car is just incredible!

I had a 65 fastback when I was 15 (about the mid 80's) and put new partial quarters and other sheet metal on it in my parents garage. I remember how hard it was getting everything to line up right and make it an ok street car. I can't imagine grafting all of thos panels together, you did a great job! :thumbsup:

[GrabberGT]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to run the Yates type 351 valve covers, who knows I might eventually run a Yates motor.

Thanks again, Ron

Awesome. Its going to look cool.

[tazzz2_ca]

Cool well getter done good buddy cause that is certainly the coolest Muttstang on the planet,,,, and I'm looking forward to running with another great winger in the Rat-Pack on the way to SEMA Next year bud.



Thanks Albert,that is too cool. I would have no idea how to photoshop that, or what ever you did.

I've tried to keep this thing as old Trans-Am looking as I could. I always hated the way the LS1 looked in the car, but it was all about the budget so it was what it was. The budget is now blown, so I'm doing what I want. That is why I went with the 4 bbl type intake and I'm pretty sure I'm going to run the Yates type 351 valve covers, who knows I might eventually run a Yates motor.

Thanks again, Ron

[57hemicuda]

Oh where, oh where, do you shoe horn this humungus oil tank. Wow there is really no space for this big trash can under this hood. I see why the Nascar cars put it behind the drivers seat. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-031/820171473_v2MXU-L.jpg

[57hemicuda]

Really have no place for the oil tank,thought of every possible location, just not enough room. So I'm thinking of building a custom tank.

My radiator sets at a 45 degree angle,so there is a lot of room behind there. The fans are pushers and they kind of push toward the ground because of the angle of the radiator.

I was wondering if anyone could think of any reason why this would be a bad idea, I would put a baffle between the radiator and the tank to divert the hot air around the tank.

I mocked up a tank out of cardboard. The tank will require alot of baffling, and bungs, but the nice part is you can put them where you want them. It would be a clean set up, and kind of fits the car. What do you think? Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-033/820299335_NcsYJ-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-032/820299322_ts7jm-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-034/820299343_5fxJV-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-035/820299353_qemp3-L.jpg

[68protouring454]

ron looks great
the problem with the square dry sump tank is it doesnt create a vortex inside,which naturally forces the oil to the outlet on the bottom, there are plenty of square dry sump tanks out there, but its a compromise for sure.

can you cut into the cowl and make a box? who needs passenger foot room?lol

[57hemicuda]

This dry sump setup is all new to me, that is good info Jake thanks. Kind of sorry I didn't just stay with the wet sump, but I'll get it figured out. Figured I'd post up, 10,000 heads are better then one. Ron

[tazzz2_ca]

If it helps Ron,,, I saw what looked like a sump tank in the trunk of the Cobra at Optima last year. I know it's a long run with lines,,,, but it would put the tank in an out of the way place bud.... just make sure the lines are shielded and the connects are bullet proof Pal ;-).

[57hemicuda]

Desided to stick with the tank I have, and make it fit. I have to change all the down bars to recess it into my firewall.

I'm going to fab all the new stuff out of chromoly, route the bars, so I can eliminate the core support all together, Should drop about 100 lbs. I figure the tank, lines and oil, are about 60lbs., so I'm still about 40 lbs. ahead.

Here are a couple pics of the hackery.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-037/821677040_3S6o2-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-042/821677168_65xaW-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-044/821677196_ehzW8-L.jpg

[57hemicuda]

Got the tank jacket built and installed, hoping to have the firewall painted by the weekend.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-046/823018026_ozALw-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-048/823018080_ui5Ks-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-049/823018097_QifRn-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-051/823018126_twfMW-L.jpg

[57hemicuda]

Got the engine set in, dry sump was a tough fit. all worked out in the end. Still have to finish tigging the front structure, and make some kind of new hinges. Hoping to fire it up this weekend. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-054/838907490_QF8f3-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-056/838907511_XQcN2-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-053/838907482_WihW8-L.jpg


http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-055/838907498_N3ncL-L.jpg

[acohoon]

You are the man. Enough said.

[WILWAXU]

Looking good! :thumbsup:

[G-Body]

WOW a man with a huge vision and even bigger talent congrats! Killlllller :thumbsup:

[Payton King]

I see you decided to shoot a little color on the firewall. Very nice. Like the way your recessed the tank.

[waynieZ]

Nice work it looks great.

[57hemicuda]

Got the new chromoly bars bent and tigged, lost about 60 lbs using chromoly instead of mild steel. Should offset the weight of the tank lines etc. Had to loop the bars around the oil tank, turned out pretty good though.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-059/842120787_EPdrv-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-060/842120916_xyiFA-L.jpg

[57hemicuda]

Chromoly front structure built, and removed for powder coating. Even with all the bars, its 51 lbs. less then the mild steel, and I added toe hooks on the front. Kinda cool the fenders, and hood hook right to the structure. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-070/853320116_FgywU-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-070/853320116_FgywU-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-072/853320361_GTwJz-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

Sweet!

[syborg tt]

Ron the car looks great

Quick Question - what size is the tire & Wheel combo

[57hemicuda]

It has 275-35/18's on 18x10.5 on the front, and 335-30/18's on 18x13 on the rear.

[syborg tt]

It has 275-35/18's on 18x10.5 on the front, and 335-30/18's on 18x13 on the rear.

Thank you - man do they look perfect

[RECOVERY ROOM]

That's nice:thumbsup:

[57hemicuda]

Got the down bars back from the coaters, color matches pretty well. Should get to fire up tomorrow, hopefully. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-075/861348334_JYB94-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-077/861348395_XwRke-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-078/861348408_T84rY-L.jpg

[d touring]

Very cool i know your chomping at the bit:yes:

[waynieZ]

Nice work it looks great.

[57hemicuda]

Finally fired it up,sounds good. All I have to do is bleed the brakes, and I can go terrorize my nieborhood, its fun running that thing around with no front clip.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-081/867858947_etGs8-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/mustang-080/867858923_LhnbU-L.jpg

[57hemicuda]

Car got dynoed on Friday. It made 573 RWHP @ 6150 RPM and 520 ft-lbs @ 5450 RPM. Car is feeling pretty snappy, actually its an unruley bitch. Ron

[olds87]

That cool Ron. Do you have any video?

[6D9]

That is the sickest mustang....EVER! You nailed it man...:hail:

[57hemicuda]

That cool Ron. Do you have any video?

It was such a frantic day getting the car ready for tuning and the dyno, that I forgot my camera. It was a couple hours from my house, so all I got was a couple crappy cell phone pics. Ron

[57hemicuda]

Over the winter desided to upgrade a few things. Changed the Tremec to a Tex101a clutchless 4 speed. Also upgraded the bellhousing to a Quicktime blowproof, and used a Tilton hydraulic throwout bearing. To get a stock type LS7 clutch to work with this thing(getting the clearances correct) I was forced to fabricate a .125 block spacer, to fit between the block and the bell. Kind of a pain, but I can't wait to see how it shifts. Ron

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/bell/1192446802_a5xEf-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/DSC00234/1189794435_76VC4-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/DSC00236/1189794467_pTMba-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/0219111233/1192446787_MaJXs-L.jpg

[frankv11]

just got to see this, love the color and all the fab work, that other project of your is going to be one sick mofo

[dug]

I can't believe I never saw this one before. It is one bad mustang thats for sure. Nice work:thumbsup:

[Flash68]

Ron -- just saw that you are taking this bad boy to Optima this year. Congrats on the invite and well deserved! :thumbsup:

[Jgpclone]

man that mustang is sick man:hail:

[mrgm]

i want to emulate. now to find a junked fastback for 400 bucks.... :thumbsup:

[67XR7]

i want to emulate. now to find a junked fastback for 400 bucks.... :thumbsup:

If you find Twins I'll take the other for $500. gotta give you a little extra for your time!

[57hemicuda]

Ron -- just saw that you are taking this bad boy to Optima this year. Congrats on the invite and well deserved! :thumbsup:

Thanks, I was totally blown away when I got the invite, there was so many REALLY nice cars there at Motorstate. My 3.18 rear gear experiment was a total fail. The car was so unhappy with the rear swap it performed terribly, either I was lugging the engine in 3rd, or blowing the tires off in 2nd.

I've got some work to do before Vegas, but I can't wait. I've been wanting to do SEMA since I was 16, and beleive it or not I've never been to Vegas. It should be a hoot.

[Cris@JCG]

Ron- Congrats on the Optima invite!... It was great meeting you @ Motorstate & getting to see your car in person.. See ya @ SEMA!

[Bucketlist2012]

Incredible..:thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Ron, I've been checking in on your car over on PT.com for the last couple years. It definitely inspired me to start hacking up my '65. If you ever look at mine one day and think that they look similar it's because I "borrowed" some ideas.

Congrats on the Optima invite!

Matt

[DTM Racing]

Thanks, I was totally blown away when I got the invite, there was so many REALLY nice cars there at Motorstate. My 3.18 rear gear experiment was a total fail. The car was so unhappy with the rear swap it performed terribly, either I was lugging the engine in 3rd, or blowing the tires off in 2nd.

I've got some work to do before Vegas, but I can't wait. I've been wanting to do SEMA since I was 16, and beleive it or not I've never been to Vegas. It should be a hoot.

You will have an absolute blast. Congrats and good luck!

[nvr2fst]

Congrats Ron on the invite. The Muttstang is one of my favorite builds on Lat G.
Youve taken that car to extreme levels in style and performance!

[57hemicuda]

Don't know if anyone else that is running a full floating rear is experiencing the same issues I am. It seems the inner axle seals just won't stop leaking. These rears are unique in the fact that you pack the outer wheel bearings with grease, and seal the gear oil in the center section. They don't want the gear oil getting to the wheel bearings and cleaning the grease out of them. I have replaced the grease seals 3 times, and they just let the oil leak into the wheel bearings constantly.

It was so bad that on my AMX rear I machined the inside of the axle tubes to except Dana 44 front inner axle seals. Figured that is what the OEM did and it should work, but that didn't fix my Mustang.

On the Mustang I vented the center section, and each individual axle tube thinking they were building pressure blowing past the seals, didn't help. Glued the aluminum seal housing in place thought maybe it was leaking past the O rings, didn't help.

Several calls, and a bunch of investigation later this is what I found. Due to the cambered axles, Nascar uses these funky seals that have the ability to seal even when there is a fair amount of misalignment. It is a dual seal, in which you pack between the two seals with axle grease, installed them today, they seem really nice, will let you know how it goes.

http://www.sealsit.com/specs/axlehub.pdf

[GregWeld]

Did you put them deep into the axle tube as shown in the diagram - or leave them out at the end of the housing?

[57hemicuda]

The aluminum seal housing has a shoulder on it, so the seal housing goes in until it hits the shoulder then won't go in anymore. Its pretty idiot proof, even for me.

[GregWeld]

I love products like that!!


LOL

[CURVES]

Thanks for sharing, nice to know before I install mine.

[dontlifttoshift]

will let you know how it goes.



Please do.

Can anyone expand on why it is so bad to hae axle grease in the wheel bearings? It's good enough for the carrier bearings and pinion bearings. Carrier bearings are bigger so they spin faster and the pinion is spinning 3 to 4 times the rpm that the wheel bearings are so what am I missing.

[Norm Peterson]

At a guess, impact loads from hitting bumps, cornering loads that are trying to bend the axle shafts, and the car's static weight loading.


Norm

[57hemicuda]

The more I thought about it Donny, the more I think it really isn't a lubrication issue. Once the oil runs down the tube and into the hub its trapped, can't get back up in the tube and back to the center. Nothing lubes like an oil bath, all 3/4 and one ton trucks lube that way, so do tractor trailers. They have way more load then anything we do. Hell the snout that I'm running on this Mustang and the AMX is the exact same snout used on the rear of a late 60's early 70's 3/4 ton dodge truck.

I think the reason they don't want gear oil out at the wheel is more of a seal failure issue, slinging gear oil all over everything, brakes, tires, the track. Could be a bit hairy if you didn't know it was happening. Just my thought.

[57hemicuda]

Did you put them deep into the axle tube as shown in the diagram - or leave them out at the end of the housing?

Just in case you didn't understand Greg, the seals install from the center. You have to remove the third member to get to the seal, that is what makes it such a pain in the butt. At first I thought it was just because the Moser axle wasn't polished at the seal surface area. Had a machine shop put the axle on a crank polisher and make it shiny. Got what the O.D. was supposed to be from Speedway before polishing, to be sure I didn't make them too small.

There is not enough inside diameter on the IMSA snout to fit a seal out at the wheel. The 2.5" Grand national snout does also have a outside seal. I just didn't like how close the wheel bearings are together on the GN style. The extra seal is a definitely an advantage though. Wouldn't stop the center leak but should keep the oil out of the wheel bearings.

Hoping this new style seal fixes the problem. Had the car out yesterday, did a Pro Mod burnout across the Conowingo Dam, car is so fun to drive.

[GregWeld]

The more I thought about it Donny, the more I think it really isn't a lubrication issue. Once the oil runs down the tube and into the hub its trapped, can't get back up in the tube and back to the center. Nothing lubes like an oil bath, all 3/4 and one ton trucks lube that way, so do tractor trailers. They have way more load then anything we do. Hell the snout that I'm running on this Mustang and the AMX is the exact same snout used on the rear of a late 60's early 70's 3/4 ton dodge truck.

I think the issue is more of a seal failure out at the wheel, slinging gear oil all over everything, brakes, tires, the track. Could be a bit hairy if you didn't know it was happening. Just my thought.




I would agree with that line of thinking.... that it's more of a seal issue... and that the bearing GREASE doesn't liquify at high temps the way the gear lube does.... so keeping it "in check" isn't as much of an issue.


All the hubs on my semi truck and trailer are oil bath.... and I run down the road at 58,000 lbs laden.






Just in case you didn't understand Greg, the seals install from the center. You have to remove the third member to get to the seal, that is what makes it such a pain in the butt. At first I thought it was just because the Moser axle wasn't polished at the seal surface area. Had a machine shop put the axle on a crank polisher and make it shiny. Got what the O.D. was supposed to be from Speedway before polishing, to be sure I didn't make them too small.

There is not enough inside diameter on the IMSA snout to fit a seal out at the wheel. The 2.5" Grand national snout does also have a outside seal. I just didn't like how close the wheel bearings are together on the GN style. The extra seal is a definitely an advantage though. Wouldn't stop the center leak but should keep the oil out of the wheel bearings.

Hoping this new style seal fixes the problem. Had the car out yesterday, did a Pro Mod burnout across the Conowingo Dam, car is so fun to drive.




I could see that the diagram made it APPEAR that the seal was nearer the carrier.... and that was why I asked -- because it didn't appear to be installed from the hub end... and I thought --- MAN! Ya gotta drop the pumpkin to install that and maybe it just looks that way in the drawing.

[SSLance]

Don't know if anyone else that is running a full floating rear is experiencing the same issues I am. It seems the inner axle seals just won't stop leaking. These rears are unique in the fact that you pack the outer wheel bearings with grease, and seal the gear oil in the center section. They don't want the gear oil getting to the wheel bearings and cleaning the grease out of them. I have replaced the grease seals 3 times, and they just let the oil leak into the wheel bearings constantly.

It was so bad that on my AMX rear I machined the inside of the axle tubes to except Dana 44 front inner axle seals. Figured that is what the OEM did and it should work, but that didn't fix my Mustang.

On the Mustang I vented the center section, and each individual axle tube thinking they were building pressure blowing past the seals, didn't help. Glued the aluminum seal housing in place thought maybe it was leaking past the O rings, didn't help.

Several calls, and a bunch of investigation later this is what I found. Due to the cambered axles, Nascar uses these funky seals that have the ability to seal even when there is a fair amount of misalignment. It is a dual seal, in which you pack between the two seals with axle grease, installed them today, they seem really nice, will let you know how it goes.

http://www.sealsit.com/specs/axlehub.pdf


A friend of mine on the Monte board saw these displayed at Carlisle this weekend and sent me the link because he was aware of the troubles I've had sealing my 9" up.

I'm trying to figure out how deep\close to the diff you put the cheaper versions on the axle. Looks like a good idea though for sure.

[SSLance]

Just in case you didn't understand Greg, the seals install from the center. You have to remove the third member to get to the seal, that is what makes it such a pain in the butt. At first I thought it was just because the Moser axle wasn't polished at the seal surface area. Had a machine shop put the axle on a crank polisher and make it shiny. Got what the O.D. was supposed to be from Speedway before polishing, to be sure I didn't make them too small.

There is not enough inside diameter on the IMSA snout to fit a seal out at the wheel. The 2.5" Grand national snout does also have a outside seal. I just didn't like how close the wheel bearings are together on the GN style. The extra seal is a definitely an advantage though. Wouldn't stop the center leak but should keep the oil out of the wheel bearings.

Hoping this new style seal fixes the problem. Had the car out yesterday, did a Pro Mod burnout across the Conowingo Dam, car is so fun to drive.



So this seal that goes on the diff end of the axle, is that the high dollar version or the $29.99 version of their seal?

[57hemicuda]

These are the expensive ones, I think they were like $70 a piece.

[Ron in SoCal]

These are the expensive ones, I think they were like $70 a piece.

I have those Ron, plus Cleveland seals at the hub end. So far no leaks :goggles:

[DBasher]

How did/are you venting the differential?

Dan

[57hemicuda]

Knowing on a full floater that the center is one sealed off section, and each tube is also its own sealed off section.I welded a bung on the center section, and drilled and tapped each tube. Installed the little brass vent breathers in the tubes. The center section has a hose hooked to it which goes through the trunk floor, loops up into the C pillar, and back down through the same hole in the trunk floor.

Used to have a short vent tube with a breather, it puked oil constantly when the car was really pushed.Car originally had a semi floating Dana 60, it also puked out the breather when leaned on hard, and that vent came off of one of the tubes.

Ideally I think a breather tank with two ports,one high, and one low, and have the center with 2 bungs. One port to breath, the other to drain the oil back down into the housing.Along with the tube vents. That way one should always be open, allowing optimum windage. That is how my AMX is setup.

Still don't truly understand how the oil expands and pushes out those vents, I just know that it does. More or less had the same problem with the venting of the engine, now have multiple tanks breathing and sending the oil back into the dry sump tank. Man I've learned a lot the last couple years doing this crap, unfortunately learned it all the hard way. Don't know that these are the best fixes available, just know they worked for me.

[DBasher]

I don't understand a lot about anything! I've already ordered the less expensive inner axle seals that you posted and now I'm looking at better breathers.
Thanks for the input.

It's all fun!
Dan

[57hemicuda]

With all the working on the other car this poor car has been abandoned. Baer sent me a new brake set up before I went to Optima, I never had a chance to adjust anything before it left for Vegas. Car slid all over the track, front tires locked up at every turn. Adjusted the rear bias as much as possible, but still not a lot of rear brake.

While getting ready for Motorstate I decided to check the front to rear brake pressures. The first check, pushing as hard as I could, showed 2100psi front/ 400psi rear. Don't know what they are supposed to be, but I know that's not right.

Decided to ditch the tandem master cylinder with the rear bias adjuster, in favor of a dual master set up. Drilling the holes in the firewall was a real pain, but I did get it done. Made an aluminum cover for that mess, powder coated it, and will assemble it tomorrow.

The original set up definitely never worked considering I've cracked 3 front rotors, and the rears look pristine. This definitely a case of too many irons in the fire, this should have been checked/corrected years ago, just had too much going on. Building the car is easy, sorting it is the hard part.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Other/Mustang/i-7dVkh9Z/0/L/DSC01144-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

Sutton was doing my bias adjusting via infrared temp gun -- might be something to discuss with him. Like you - I have no idea what the pressures should be... but I'd think 2100 front should be seeing 800ish in the rears.

[Ns RS]

It certainly looked and sounded the part at Motorstate last year. Check out Chris getting ready for yet another LS in a Dodge??? question LOL

[Flash68]

Ron, you should have Mr Sutton work up one of these charts for you:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/DavesBrakeSystem_zps21e4b48c.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/DavesBrakeSystem_zps21e4b48c.jpg.html)

[57hemicuda]

Its funny Dave, I always was of the mind set that the rear had a fair amount less pressure then the front. If you think about it, if you run 3/4" masters front and rear, no matter what, the pressures should be the same front to back if the bias adjuster is in the middle. Clamping force may be different due to piston size, etc., but pressures should be the same.

If you look at Ron's chart, pressures are the same front to rear. I think getting it sized close then doing the temp check is really the best way.

No matter what it should be, my 2100F/400R is wrong. The rear bias adjuster is full open, my 7/8" master should have been in the ball park.
It was probably just bad from the start, and I just didn't know enough as a driver to feel it was wrong. Hell I got used to it, and took top 5 or 6 at quite a few events. Finch drove the car, spun it a couple times, and couldn't get close to my times, finally threw me the keys and said that thing is undrivable. I just laughed, probably should have thrown a big red flag, but the event was over, and it was beer drinking time.

Hoping this is a good change, and I don't turn it into a spin out machine. I'm pretty used to the car the way it is, and fear it'll be a handful. We'll find out on the 22nd, can't wait!!!

[GregWeld]

For what it's worth -- my Mustang had TOO MUCH rear brake -- and coming down the straight and getting into the brakes at speed started the rear hopping and skipping -- which then made it loose and nasty.

Ron (Sutton) started dialing out bias and it got SO MUCH BETTER... but we still had too much rear brake -- so now we've mixed up the compounds to see how that's going to work.

I hope it doesn't send me into the wall at 3.... LOL

[57hemicuda]

That is what I mean Greg, you get used to wrong, so when you make it right, that seems wrong. I still have a bunch of crap to do on this car before Michigan, so it will be a thrash to get it done. I seriously can't wait to try it out.

[Flash68]

Anxious to see what you do in that thing once it's drivable Ron. Keep at it.

I am still kickin myself for not forcing you to give me a country side ride in that thing when we were there. :twak:

[GregWeld]

That is what I mean Greg, you get used to wrong, so when you make it right, that seems wrong. I still have a bunch of crap to do on this car before Michigan, so it will be a thrash to get it done. I seriously can't wait to try it out.




That's where SUTTON is worth his weight in gold -- and he's not svelte! LOL



He talks to me before I go out - and reminds me to sneak up on things - and that helps! Just having someone there to calm you down - talk some of the adrenalin off... The car gets better because he knows what to do when I tell him it's doing "X" --- and he makes my driving better because he keeps me back from the ledge. HAHAHAHAHA It's true though!

[57hemicuda]

Got the masters in place, will make up the lines tomorrow. This is getting stupid working on two cars at once, and posting crap.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-8CbrdG2/0/L/DSC01150-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-j2b6KP3/0/L/DSC01154-L.jpg

[Krazed]

Hang in there Ron! :snapout:

You're an inspiration to all of us! I for one know that your build is inspiring my next one entirely!

[Track Junky]

Looking good. Curious to see the difference in brake pressures.

[65_LS1_T56]

Got the masters in place, will make up the lines tomorrow. This is getting stupid working on two cars at once, and posting crap.


You need to hire a cute marketing/social media girl so you can stay focused...on the "working on cars part" :lol:

[Payton King]

Very Racy! You might be fast with brakes on both the front and the rear. LOL

[dontlifttoshift]

Ron, which inner seals were you running before? What is the surface finish on your axles?

There are not awesome billet seals for 35 spline so I just put these in Rich's car. Allstar number 72098

http://allstarperformance.com/product.htm?prod=747

We weren't having a problem, It just really upped the maintenance routine knowing the gear lube washed the grease off the bearings. The more I thought about it, gear lube is plenty good for the bearings but the unknown was how much lube are we getting there. USCA in St Louis and the Motorstate....we'll see how it goes.

[57hemicuda]

I was running the billet style aluminum housing with a single style seal that Moser provides. Moser doesn't do much on the finish of those axles, so I called Speedway got the O.D. that the axle should be at the seal surface. Took it to a machine shop and polished it on a crank polisher to that O.D.

[57hemicuda]

Looks like the new setup works pretty well, at least pressure wise, haven't driven it yet. I seem to be able to adjust the pressures between 1200psi front and 800psi rear, and then opposite that, by adjusting the balance bar. I bought a 7/8 master just in case for the front, I may install it after driving it, but at least I'm close. Can't wait to see if it feels different.

[Ron in SoCal]

Looks like the new setup works pretty well, at least pressure wise, haven't driven it yet. I seem to be able to adjust the pressures between 1200psi front and 800psi rear, and then opposite that, by adjusting the balance bar. I bought a 7/8 master just in case for the front, I may install it after driving it, but at least I'm close. Can't wait to see if it feels different.

Ron are you running 6Ps? If so, what size masters? I'll have to check, but I think Baer spec'd 3/4" front and 15/16" rear (14" rotors).

[57hemicuda]

After checking the pressures with the balance bar in the middle. 3/4F-3/4R Masters. The pressures were 1050 rear / 950 front. Adjusting the bar I could get it 1200 F/ 800R and then reverse it 1200R/ 800F with just a turn of the knob. It did seem to favor the rear pressure wise, so I may change the rear to 7/8.


My system has 6s front with 15" rotors. 6p rear with 14" rotors, and 3/4" masters front and rear.

[Flash68]

Is there a front/rear psi target or ballpark you are aiming for?

[57hemicuda]

I'm going to start in the middle, 950ish front and back, dial in the rear brake till I get them to lock up on the street, then back it off (then recheck the pressures). The rest will be done with a temp gun at the track.

I'm so used to this car the way it was, really want to see if rear brake will make any difference.

[GregWeld]

Is there a front/rear psi target or ballpark you are aiming for?




Oh...... Just Stop it!





LOL

[GregWeld]

I read thru this -- didn't really find any particular nugget of info to hang a hat on... such as 60/40 or whatever....

What I did find --- was a mindset.... which is --- Race cars with race tires are to be thought of differently than street cars with street tires. Important only because a lot of the things we hear and base info off of may be "street" info rather than "race" info. The math used alone is almost DOUBLE using the sticky race tire with a coefficient of 1.5 versus the street tire of .08 makes a huge difference in what the tires can handle and their stopping distances.

Weight bias - front to rear - and more importantly weight TRANSFER under braking... I know my Mustang doesn't nose dive like my street cars do... etc.


http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/white-paper---brake-bias-and-performance-why-brake-balance-matters

[Payton King]

I bet it is spot on with the 3/4 and 3/4. I know you are getting a little more pressure in the rear, but I bet you have a touch of air in the line up front. Even if you do not your weight bias, if I remember correctly, is 49 front and 51 rear. Think you will be fine with the bias already built into the caliper piston size and rotor size compared to the front.

Drive that bitch and lets find out.

[Norm Peterson]

Weight bias - front to rear - and more importantly weight TRANSFER under braking... I know my Mustang doesn't nose dive like my street cars do... etc.
Nose dive, per se, has very little to do with the amount of load transferred forward under braking. Only by whatever amounts the actual nose dive in the front lowers the sprung mass CG and the tail lifting in the rear raises it combine to make an overall change in the CG height will there be any change in the load transfer. Unless your Mustang has undergone a fairly serious CG lowering exercise, it will very likely transfer more % forward during a max-effort stop than your street cars do.


Minor nit to pick - the only weight that moves forward under braking is fluids in partially filled containers/reservoirs (gas, oil, coolant, W/S washer. brake fluid, etc.) and unrestrained cargo/passengers.


Norm

[bdahlg68]

What Greg was saying was not that the CG is moving, but that due to the moment exhibited about the CG during breaking, there is a substantial load increase at the front tires and reduction at the rear tires. How the car reacts to this transfer involves more than the position of the CG - which is what I think you are alluding to in that his Mustang doesn't dive like a street car.

[Flash68]

Oh...... Just Stop it!





LOL

Hope you're taking notes so you can get that parts runner truck of yours DIALED.

[Norm Peterson]

What Greg was saying was not that the CG is moving, but that due to the moment exhibited about the CG during breaking, there is a substantial load increase at the front tires and reduction at the rear tires. How the car reacts to this transfer involves more than the position of the CG - which is what I think you are alluding to in that his Mustang doesn't dive like a street car.
Well . . . sort of.

The point that I'm really trying to get across is that "nose dive" neither causes forward load transfer nor is it even a particularly good representation of how much forward LT is happening.

Only that "some is" (along with some general implications regarding values of the applicable geometric anti effects).


Norm

[57hemicuda]

I read thru this -- didn't really find any particular nugget of info to hang a hat on... such as 60/40 or whatever....

What I did find --- was a mindset.... which is --- Race cars with race tires are to be thought of differently than street cars with street tires. Important only because a lot of the things we hear and base info off of may be "street" info rather than "race" info. The math used alone is almost DOUBLE using the sticky race tire with a coefficient of 1.5 versus the street tire of .08 makes a huge difference in what the tires can handle and their stopping distances.

Weight bias - front to rear - and more importantly weight TRANSFER under braking... I know my Mustang doesn't nose dive like my street cars do... etc.


http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/white-paper---brake-bias-and-performance-why-brake-balance-matters

Funny Greg, that nugget your looking for is to truly not take anything for granted. Don't assume anything, just because parts are new, no guarantees that they will work properly. I still say the setup I was running should have been at least been in the ball park, the new master was just defective.

Instead of taking the extra day or two to check everything, my A.D.D. once again got the better of me. Too many projects not enough focus. Payton sent me his pressure gauges 2 years ago, but they didn't fit my calipers so I never checked.

I am definitely not an analysis to paralysis guy, I put things together and beat the sh*t out of it to find the week links. Now that I'm focused on the brakes, I'll screw with them until they work. There are so many variables with this crap, I feel the charts only get you in the ball park, the rest is all on you.

My car is the only one I've driven on a road course, so honestly I didn't know what "RIGHT" was. I can sure clue you in to what wrong is though.LOL

[GregWeld]

Well . . . sort of.

The point that I'm really trying to get across is that "nose dive" neither causes forward load transfer nor is it even a particularly good representation of how much forward LT is happening.

Only that "some is" (along with some general implications regarding values of the applicable geometric anti effects).


Norm




Here --- Let me explain it to you....


When I go hard into a corner at speed and I stomp on the brakes while turning in -- the weight transfers to the front - and the rear loses grip -- which makes the ass end of the car swap with the front end of the car.

I don't really care about the technical details or terminology.... I have a real good understanding of what to do, and what not to do, to get around the track. Ron Sutton explained it all to me -- "be nice to the tires". Good enough.

[Norm Peterson]

Here --- Let me explain it to you....


When I go hard into a corner at speed and I stomp on the brakes while turning in -- the weight transfers to the front - and the rear loses grip -- which makes the ass end of the car swap with the front end of the car.

I don't really care about the technical details or terminology.... I have a real good understanding of what to do, and what not to do, to get around the track. Ron Sutton explained it all to me -- "be nice to the tires". Good enough.
Well, I hope this edit ↓↓↓ reads better for you. I really don't like having to use poor terminology to get the main point across, but I guess I have to make exceptions from time to time.


The point that I'm really trying to get across is that nose dive does not cause weight transfer. Nose dive isn't even very good at indicating how much weight transfer is happening. Only that some is.


Sorry, Ron.


Norm

[Payton King]

Well I disagree with the last statement. It either transfers weight or force to the front tires or it it does not. We all know that it does. Works exactly the same way on the other end with acceleration. So you are stating no weight is transfered to the rear wheels when a drag car leaves the line with the front tires in the air?

[bdahlg68]

No - what he is saying is a bit clearer now but the cause and effect is backwards.

He is saying nose dive doesn't cause weight transfer - which is correct because nose dive is an effect of weight transfer not a cause.

He is also saying that nose dive doesn't tell you how much weight is transferring which is also true due to the number of factors involved. Nose dive is simply an indication that weight is being transferred.

[GregWeld]

Greg <<<<<<< rattling around in his bag... AH! Here it is.... Beginning to transfer fluid....


Norm - Semantics and engineering gibberish aside. Anyone that has ever driven a car understands what "the point" is.

When the brakes are applied hard - especially during road racing or auto crossing etc - the front brakes need more braking power and the rear will need somewhat less - due to the coefficient of the tire / pavement / loading on the front vs the rear.

The amounts are all variable due to speed attained prior to the need to brake... and somehow the brain and the leg discuss this phenomena and come up with a plan. What the leg and the brain NEVER DO... is take the time to figure out if it's fluid transfer - nose dive - motion of the ocean - mass of the ass.... etc. The leg then carries out the "plan" and applies pressure on a flat pad attached to a lever - which then transfers that pressure to fluid - and that pressure is applied to more flat pads which press against rotating discs of steel.... and when the brain says -- I need more pressure - the leg applies more pressure and the previous technical analysis is multiplied -- or decreased if the brain said it wants less pressure - until the brain says - that's enough. Then the leg is told to switch positions and press on another flat pad attached to a different lever. This lever can now be electronic or mechanical but it's basic function is to transfer a different fluid - which, when mixed with the proper amount of air - and compressed - and lit - explodes in a controlled fashion and creates more pressure which pushes down on a different flat pad attached to a lever. Well... you get the point.


I think I have a better understanding of how this all works now. It's all about flat pads and levers and pressures and fluids of various viscosity. Funny when I think about it - this whole thing has another commonality. All these pads and fluids etc create heat. I'll have to do some reading about that.

[Sieg]

Thankfully I drive by feel and learn from images more than theories and equations.

http://www.pbase.com/996sps/image/148998747/original.jpg

I've learned from images like this that sometimes rear brakes just aren't that important. :D

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Thankfully I drive by feel and learn from images more than theories and equations.


I've learned from images like this that sometimes rear brakes just aren't that important. :D

but theories and equations help you further understand and make improvments.

Reminds me of a story of a novice body man watching a 300 year old veteran work metal.
The novice " I see you are using the off dolly technique"
The veteran "What? I have no idea what you are ******* saying. I just hit the metal and it does what ever I ***** want it to do".


Now back to more pictures.

[Norm Peterson]

No - what he is saying is a bit clearer now but the cause and effect is backwards.

He is saying nose dive doesn't cause weight transfer - which is correct because nose dive is an effect of weight transfer not a cause.

He is also saying that nose dive doesn't tell you how much weight is transferring which is also true due to the number of factors involved. Nose dive is simply an indication that weight is being transferred.
Thank you.

When cause and effect get mixed up, you can end up making wrong conclusions. Using the relative amount of nose dive between a race Mustang and somebody's DD (what started this tangent off) to suggest that the DD transfers more weight forward is a classic example.


Sieg - I also drive by feel, and I don't have to be on a track to be consciously aware that I am. On the track, I'm also driving with some awareness of the sounds of cornering. The engineer is on break during such times ands deals with things later.


Norm

[Payton King]

It was never stated that a daily driver transfers more weight/force...just that a street car normally has more front dive. We all understand that the amount of front dive a car has under braking has to do with the spring rate, shock dampening, anti-dive built into the front suspesion, rate of deceleration, etc.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread "As the Car Stops" starring Good Ron as a middle aged car builder/boy racer with no rear brakes. When we last left off, Good Ron had discovered that his Mustang never had rear brakes due to a bad master...that is where the journey started as he replaced the faulty master with 2 new racy masters and a balance bar system. Tune in next week when you will hear Good Ron say, "My fricken car stops awesome! Why did I wait 2 years to fix this crap?"

My guess to the answer to that question is: It was easier to build an AMX than it was to take 10 minutes to diagnose the problem.

[57hemicuda]

Bite me hard!!!!

[Krazed]

:lmao: You guys kill me. I LOVE IT!

My guess is... kinda like having to do something you know you should have.. and the longer it goes without being done, the harder it is to swallow your pride and just do it.

That or he was just lazy. Yeah..Probably lazy. :D

[Sieg]

Tune in next week when you will hear Good Ron say, "My fricken car stops awesome! Why did I wait 2 years to fix this crap?"

My guess to the answer to that question is: It was easier to build an AMX than it was to take 10 minutes to diagnose the problem.

Bite me hard!!!!

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[GregWeld]

Thank you.

When cause and effect get mixed up, you can end up making wrong conclusions. Using the relative amount of nose dive between a race Mustang and somebody's DD (what started this tangent off) to suggest that the DD transfers more weight forward is a classic example.


Sieg - I also drive by feel, and I don't have to be on a track to be consciously aware that I am. On the track, I'm also driving with some awareness of the sounds of cornering. The engineer is on break during such times ands deals with things later.


Norm



Norm --- It's all good and we all had some fun with it.



My favorite non-engineering statement... "Punch it! I know the road!"

[Vegas69]

Let me simplify this for Greg and Norm. Has anybody every used a teeter totter? :lol:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Norm --- It's all good and we all had some fun with it.



My favorite non-engineering statement... "Punch it! I know the road!"

:_paranoid

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Let me simplify this for Greg and Norm. Has anybody every used a teeter totter? :lol:

with those two involved try a trebuchet LOL

[57hemicuda]

Got the gas pedal made, and the bias adjuster mount done. Made the go pedal twice as big as the brake. Still haven't driven it, will flog it tomorrow.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-cspFL6h/0/L/DSC01158-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-HXhX23W/0/L/DSC01170-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-hGGFzkL/0/L/DSC01160-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-vjm95fq/0/L/DSC01165-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-5HrjWDJ/0/L/DSC01163-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

Dude! All of that AND the TEXT TRAIN TOO!


What a multitasker!!!


All I did today was drive 4 hours round trip to buy a pallet jack... LOL

[57hemicuda]

Got the car out and flogged it pretty hard with the new masters. 120 to 0 stops were pretty good, the dialing in process was a little hairy. It is easy to dial in enough rear brake to make the rear pass the front in a panic stop, if you don't pay attention.

[Flash68]

So are we talking night and day better than prior here?

[65_LS1_T56]

Muttstang sitting in MI

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb476/65_LS1_T56/Miscellaneous/20140724_095314_zpspxur2rsz.jpg (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/65_LS1_T56/media/Miscellaneous/20140724_095314_zpspxur2rsz.jpg.html)

[wiedemab]

I'm more than a little sad that I'm not there........ adding to the sadness is that my car is a long way from done.........

[57hemicuda]

After the mad thrash getting the brakes working properly, and running a day of practice before Motorstate. The brakes work better then they ever have. Had throttle return spring break second session, and stick wide open. In my third, while at 125ish slowing for the last turn, I down shifted the transmission let go, sounded horrible.

Pulled the trans, it doesn't look too bad. Hoping to get it to G force for some TLC. I'll call them tomorrow to see what a freshen up cost.

[Flash68]

Great news on the brakes Ron.... obvious bummer on the trans deal. Hopefully it ain't too bad and you can get back up and out there.

[droptop73]

Sory to hear about the trans. It was good to meet you at the Motorstate cruise.

[GregWeld]

After the mad thrash getting the brakes working properly, and running a day of practice before Motorstate. The brakes work better then they ever have. Had throttle return spring break second session, and stick wide open. In my third, while at 125ish slowing for the last turn, I down shifted the transmission let go, sounded horrible.

Pulled the trans, it doesn't look too bad. Hoping to get it to G force for some TLC. I'll call them tomorrow to see what a freshen up cost.




Did you measure pressures AFTER the changes made?? Just curious.

Sorry about the trans - but that's racin'.

[57hemicuda]

After multiple changes between masters,i settled on 7/8 f/ 3/4r which yeilded roughly 1000psi front and rear when really standing on it, and the bias bar on the middle setting.

[Flash68]

she looks bad azz at speed.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/E8D8B832-8AA6-4E23-BBF7-74B737506D2D_zpssmfslbw1.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/E8D8B832-8AA6-4E23-BBF7-74B737506D2D_zpssmfslbw1.jpg.html)

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/2346C87E-79F5-43E4-BA89-33F171A7BB73_zpsxttloab0.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/2346C87E-79F5-43E4-BA89-33F171A7BB73_zpsxttloab0.jpg.html)

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/95EF96F0-8241-4BD3-B362-FC8A28457BD7_zpsj95rkuho.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/95EF96F0-8241-4BD3-B362-FC8A28457BD7_zpsj95rkuho.jpg.html)

[65_LS1_T56]

she IS bad azz at speed.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff245/flash68/95EF96F0-8241-4BD3-B362-FC8A28457BD7_zpsj95rkuho.jpg (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/flash68/media/95EF96F0-8241-4BD3-B362-FC8A28457BD7_zpsj95rkuho.jpg.html)

Dave, I fixed it :lol:

Ron was cool enough to give me a ride in our open track session Wednesday night at Gingerman...holy shnikeys, that was fun.

:thankyou: Ron!

[57hemicuda]

Right back at you Aaron, I'm still in awe of how well the Chevelle does, C5 brakes work amazing on that car. Your sure not afraid to lean on that thing!!! Still think I liked your line better.

[65_LS1_T56]

Right back at you Aaron, I'm still in awe of how well the Chevelle does, C5 brakes work amazing on that car. Your sure not afraid to lean on that thing!!! Still think I liked your line better.

Appreciate that Ron. I'm just a mid-pack guy at best, having an absolute blast trying though. After all the laps at Gingerman, both open session and on Friday, I've determined I'm in need of ...:morepower

No matter what line I took, I maxed at 118mph each session. So I'm sure I'm givin' her all she had. I haven't looked, but my toe boards are probably bulged out from pressing the go pedal so hard. My time kept dropping, but I was making it up everywhere but the straights.

[1coolC2]

I'm sooo bummed I was not able to attend with the Nova this year :-( , but that's life!! I have time now over the fall/winter to finish the build at something less than a neck breaking speed and do things at a pace that will allow me to change my mind on some aspects if desired. Glad you guys had a great time, hope to see you in Vegas!!

R/
Jeff

[57hemicuda]

Having the weirdest time with this car. G Force called yesterday and said they didn't see anything wrong with this trans. When it broke, one of the other racers pitted next to me helped push it on the trailer. I asked if he would look under and see if the drive shaft was turning when I let out the clutch and the horrible grinding noise occurred, he said it wasn't. Has to be the transmission right? Since then I've pulled the clutch(perfect), pulled the rear just in case the other racer was wrong, disassemble the Waveloc(perfect), and checked the drive plates(perfect). I even thought maybe the yoke stripped, but it was perfect.

Either someone at G Force is blind, or I am, kind of baffled at this point. Hoping to go up and look at the trans my self later to day. Weird!!

[GregWeld]

How about the input shaft bushing/bearing in the crankshaft.... Or the Throwout bearing...

[57hemicuda]

Got car back together with minutes to spare for the Ohio Muscle Car Challenge, squeaked out a 2nd place on the road course. Amazing what rear brakes and some decent tires will do for a mediocre driver.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Other/Mustang/i-Gjn6qdG/0/L/pitts-L.jpg

[GregWeld]

Got car back together with minutes to spare for the Ohio Muscle Car Challenge, squeaked out a 2nd place on the road course. Amazing what rear brakes and some decent tires will do for a mediocre driver.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Other/Mustang/i-Gjn6qdG/0/L/pitts-L.jpg



Oh boo hoo.... just ask Charley -- your brakes were "FINE".



Good to hear it worked out for ya.

[Track Junky]

Odd to see green grass at a race track in August.
Nice goin' Ron. :thumbsup:

[slenning]

Congrats on the second place Ron Well Done!!!
Was the trans the problem?

[57hemicuda]

Weirdest thing, no it ended up being the clutch. The clutch looks brand new, like it just came out of the box, but something failed. I think the metal tore behind the friction material where I can't see it.

[GregWeld]

Weirdest thing, no it ended up being the clutch. The clutch looks brand new, like it just came out of the box, but something failed. I think the metal tore behind the friction material where I can't see it.




Can I use this vague excuse with Gwen?

[57hemicuda]

Buying a set of pics from the track photographer in Pittsburg. When I was looking at the prints I noticed the camber issue on my passenger side front tire.

Don't really know if this is normal or not. Contact patch is kind of pitiful. Driver side is awesome, but makes me kind of wonder if a full 2 degrees is too much for a tire that wide. If you look at the Mustang I'm passing his skinnies are flat on the road.

Pictures depict well the high camber, and low grip on the inside tire. I have to admit I was late passing the other car, so I was probably a little hot in the corner. It just doesn't seem to be optimum for what it is, thinking of making some changes up front.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-dMGcrC2/0/L/DSC_0378-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-tkwCXpc/0/L/DSC_0379-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-hnmGFBw/0/L/DSC_0385-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-fhVt9R2/0/L/DSC_0393-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-QspFxnG/0/L/DSC_0402-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-Wc32xQc/0/L/DSC_0442-L.jpg

[Track Junky]

First off Ron the turn in the pic cambers to the inside so that will magnify the air space at the outside of the inside tire. The only way to really know if your alignment is good is to check tire temps.
On the same note.....when I went from 275's to 295's I never changed my alignment settings and was dragging the inside of the inside tire. The steering felt heavy and I was scrubbing a lot of speed off in the corners. In addition the tires temps were hotter on the inside than they were on the outside.
I went from 1.7 to 1.3 for the next track day and it was like night and day. The split in temps between out side and inside of tire was only 2* with the outside being hotter.
Blew me away on how only .4 degrees in camber made such a huge difference.

[57hemicuda]

Thanks G, I really do believe 2 degrees is way too much for my setup. Center of gravity is so low, and the car just runs so flat through the turns, I think I'll cut it back to 1.5 and see how it does. Funny how seeing pictures while really leaning on the car can help to confirm something though.

I really need to take this more seriously, stop running every lap I can, including the cool down. Come in early hit the tire temps quick, and stop just using track time as my personal stress therapy.

[Flash68]

and stop just using track time as my personal stress therapy.

Sounds to me like you've got it figured out Ron.

[Track Junky]

No prob. It took me 3-4 years (probably a total of 12 track days at most) to finally get my car where I want it. I would do 3-4 laps a session then come in and make adjustments. In addition to changing parts (in between track days) at the track I was having to have to pull the jack out, lift the car, put it on jack stands and make shock, rear roll center, tire air pressure adjustments, etc, etc. What a pain. I think I learned a lot doing it though and(knock on wood)I finally got the car dialed in.(For me anyways)

Funny though, I always studied my on track pictures. This isn't a hobby, its a disease :lol:

[Norm Peterson]

Thanks G, I really do believe 2 degrees is way too much for my setup. Center of gravity is so low, and the car just runs so flat through the turns, I think I'll cut it back to 1.5 and see how it does. Funny how seeing pictures while really leaning on the car can help to confirm something though.
It's at least worth a try, though I suspect you'll sacrifice more outside tire grip than you'll gain on the inside tire. Even as low as your car is, the inside front is still going to be pretty lightly loaded and can't gain all that much.


FWIW, that Mustang doesn't look like he's running nearly enough negative camber for that car, particularly with what I assume is still a strut suspension - I'm seeing camber that's slightly positive on his outside tire, and radial tires tend to actually grip best at a slightly negative camber Maybe he's running a mildly aggressive performance street setting. Terry Fair at Vorshlag has done lots of testing on the S197 chassis and has ended up using a serious amount of negative camber (somewhere well out past -3°, IIRC).


Norm

[57hemicuda]

Those newer strut Mustangs do seem to work pretty well Norm. Funny how you figure it all on paper, cycle the suspension, try everything you can think of to get it right, but until you see the parts real world in action, your never sure what its going to do.

Killing time before I leave for OK, so I thought I'd post some pics from OMCC

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-z3vR64S/0/L/DSC_0790e%2012x18-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-7nq5pDp/0/L/DSC_0789e%2012x18-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-TqTJ3Qb/0/L/DSC_0770-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-8MxR5s6/0/L/DSC_0606-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-MqJT9BS/0/L/DSC_0093-L.jpg

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang/i-xCkcGJV/0/L/DSC_0632-L.jpg

[Rick D]

Such a cool car Ron!! Have fun on Drag Week!!:trophy-1302:

[Payton King]

That blue does photograph well. The guy driving has the perfect face for radio.

[slenning]

That blue does photograph well. The guy driving has the perfect face for radio.

Funny!! My exact thoughts Payton. :D

[1coolC2]

That blue does photograph well. The guy driving has the perfect face for radio.

Or a milk carton :D

LOL

[GregWeld]

That blue does photograph well. The guy driving has the perfect face for radio.

It's the damnedest things you see when you don't have a gun!

[57hemicuda]

Apparently there are those on the board that don't own mirrors, but for everyone else your welcome.LOL

[Vegas69]

Don't feel bad Ron, this group is about the ugliest mob of people under the sun. :D

[57hemicuda]

Someone just sent me this from the Speed Hunters web site. Article was on Ken Blocks 4x4 Mustang drift car. If you scroll down the article and get to the design inspiration board that they put together.There is a couple pics of this Mustang on there, one of the chassis, and one complete. Kinda cool

http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/12/the-hoonicorn-rtr-build-story/

[Flash68]

Not kinda cool... VERY COOL! :Tomcat:

[wiedemab]

Do you think they started with a $5,000 budget too? :stirthepot:

[glassman]

That is waaaay cool. One of the greatest videos in our time (IMO) and your car was "looked at" for some kind of inspiration. That is just awesome on so many levels. I love this sport.

And did you read further down in the comments about all the haters "you hacked up an old mustang, wah wah wah" , give it a rest. This build was done to the "nines", and if you don't like it, ya gotta respect it (kinda like barbara streisand lol, i dont like her voice or style, but shes very good)

[57hemicuda]

Do you think they started with a $5,000 budget too? :stirthepot:



I love that thing, really digging what they did. Did some research on the fully sequential transmission/transfer case in that car. Looks like it is about 50k. So far out of the realm of thought for any normal builds. Sure is cool though.

[wiedemab]

I love that thing, really digging what they did. Did some research on the fully sequential transmission/transfer case in that car. Looks like it is about 50k. So far out of the realm of thought for any normal builds. Sure is cool though.

Oh yeah - I was just teasing. That car is pretty awesome. Although probably not as much as most projects, I'm sure there was a fair amount of scope creep even on that car.

Your next project going to be AWD?

[WSSix]

Thanks for posting the link, Ron. What a great car.

[65_LS1_T56]

Built Ford tuff with Chevy stuff! No wonder they liked it. That's pretty cool Ron.

Wait til they see the AMX :relax:

[57hemicuda]

Your next project going to be AWD?

Actually started measuring on the AMX, which would be doable. 335's all wheel drive= bad a$$. All until I started looking at transmission/transfer case. Wow, stupid money.

I think Rob Dickey put it best: Would you rather have a fast 2 wheel drive race car or a novelty all wheel drive one? I do think the all wheel drive car would be cool, just too expensive.

http://57hemicuda.smugmug.com/Cars/AMX/i-CR32vR7/0/L/DSC00298-L.jpg

[65_LS1_T56]

Not sure everyone will be able to see this since Dave Dean posted it on FB.

good shot of the Muttstang last weekend!

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13244118_473811792821299_2257209219978058933_o.jpg

[SSLance]

That's a great shot. Was cool to finally get to see this car in person. It was one of the first cars in the hotel parking lot and everyone that came in after commented on how cool it looked.

[GregWeld]

Looks like PK is having fun telling RS where to go! LOL


Love this car - the owner and his buddy aren't so bad either.


XOXO
Me

[57hemicuda]

Somebody needs to wash that thing, what a super fun and dirty weekend. It was great blowing the cob webs out, and hanging with the guys that built the hobby, (and Payton). lol

[65_LS1_T56]

Looks like PK is having fun telling RS where to go! LOL


Love this car - the owner and his buddy aren't so bad either.


XOXO
Me

X2 Greg. I had a great time hanging out Ron and Payton too. The Muttstang is freakin awesome on the big track...RS took me out for a session. That G-force trans is crazy, like a grenade going off at each shift..watch your foot and legs on the tunnel though. Mine's a nice medium-well now :lol:

Somebody needs to wash that thing, what a super fun and dirty weekend. It was great blowing the cob webs out, and hanging with the guys that built the hobby, (and Payton). lol

My pig is still dirty, but I drove it to work anyway! Thanks for the ride along again Ron. Next time, I'm wearing ear plugs and asbestos lined shoes :lmao:

[57hemicuda]

Don't know why, but I really dig this picture. Must be the bumper sticker. LOL


https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Mustang-1/i-x5qJVnr/0/L/20160520-256A8586MMC-ZF-9592-70455-1-001-029-L.jpg