1000hp Sbc Vs 1000 Hp Bbc, Which One Would You Go With?

[hannes_slanec]

1000HP SBC VS 1000 HP BBC, WHICH WOULD YOU GO WITH?


Hello, currently I am about to build a 540cid standart deck BBC that soon is planed to run twin turbos.

My goal was around 3,5sec for 0-60 on the street with street radials and I was thinking 1000HP will be my need for that accerlation.

About the car

68 Impala SS427 clone

ca 1800kg

All heavy things are rear mounted at the backest possible point like bat, radiator (I saw that by the rally cars), soundsystem and so on

Car get a narrowd 9" for wider tires like 315 or even 345 and of course a posi differenzial.

I run Dart aluminum heads and want to go with a alu-engine too to lose some more weight on the front wheels
I also plan to go some inches back with the engine as far as possible.

4-link will be optimized


Now, I saw that Tom Nelson cranks 800HP out of a 427 SBC!!! and before I thought of course that guy know about hard valve springs, hottest cams and will go with race fuel to avoid detonation if he boosts the hell out of the block, but in one of the latest videos he stated that he got now a 427 SBC cranking out 1100HP Shocked
totally streetable on 91Okt on only 6 ****ing PSI which is the lowest performance on that engine :wow:

:willy:

Seems like some more PSI and that engine is makeing 1500HP easily I think.

Of course I start wondering why the hell do I build a BBC for twice the money if a SBC is as strong as a BBC as well.


What is your members opinion about that competition, ok some of you will say the answer is, after the SBC is making 1100 now the stroker BBC will push out 1800-2000 but I think I will not get that much power on the streets, dont forget it is a street car and where I live we cannot drive Hoosier or M/T drag tires on the street.

Is there any speed/ or RPM range where it is a difference between 1000HP or 1500 or 1800HP when using the car on the street or will the HP always go out in nothing else than tire smoke?

Is there any benefit in the comparism between 1000HP SBC and 1000HP BBC, maybe the better low end torque would help by a car that is a bit heavier like my 1800kg Impala.

I have to say in that 69 Camaro 427 twin turbo video I realized that Tom always goes up to 4000RPM before he makes the kick down, maybe that would be different with a BBC

A crazy detai is that since new more and more mebers boost Big Blocks, I read every day things like 454TT, 502TT, 509 TT, 540 TT so a lot of people want to go that way now but maybe the most of them are drag racers and do not use ther cars on the street (maybe) but like that some fellas do the same now.

Tell me what you think, maybe I change to an SBC although I am proud of my stroker BBC :unibrow:


:lateral: Thanks Hannes :lateral:

[TwinSting]

I vote small block. it is lighter and if it is one of Toms motors you cant go wrong. My 434SBC from Nelson made over 1500hp!! with about 1300lbs/trq

[fesler]

I would go twin turbo small block but if you want tourque BB is the way to go, the small block will never do the same as the BB we have the built 572 in our Camaro and its a killer in tourque. The SB is quick the big block just kicks you in

[hannes_slanec]

I vote small block. it is lighter and if it is one of Toms motors you cant go wrong. My 434SBC from Nelson made over 1500hp!! with about 1300lbs/trq

Thanks for your opinion

Let´s go a bit deeper into it:


What static compression:question:

How much boost:question:

1500HP on what kind of fuel:question:

How wild was the cam, valve springs and so on:question:


Would you see a problem using that engine on the street for years:question:


Thanks Hannes

[hannes_slanec]

I would go twin turbo small block but if you want tourque BB is the way to go, the small block will never do the same as the BB we have the built 572 in our Camaro and its a killer in tourque. The SB is quick the big block just kicks you in

Thanks for your answer too,:yes:

so a car that is a bit heavier would benefit from the BBC with Turbos, right?

With a big block it may be unnessery to wait for 4.000 rpm to kick down the gas padel.

That means 1000HP and 1000HP is not automatically the same performance?

Thanks so far guys :captain:

[sacarguy]

i just don't know where to begin.

first your NOT going to put a honest 1000 horsepower down on radials on the street maybee from a 50 mph roll but not 0-60

and yes i can speak from experiance since my race car ran mid sevens on radials.

yes nelson can do it easy if you want to spend a metric ton of money but there are plenty of others out there who can do the same thing for far less imo.

my radial cars motor put out 2600 horsepower and 2000 torque from a 434 cube small block ford with street style heads .. no yates heads or anything crazy and a single turbo. < 114 mm >

any engine shop can build you a 430 + cube motor with good heads and proper cam and then do a custom turbo kit with a 88 mm large frame turbo or a pair of t-67's and at 8-12 psi on pump gas you will easily hit 1k horsepower its not rocket science realy .. i build em all day like this.

[hannes_slanec]

1st,

your NOT going to put a honest 1000 horsepower down on radials on the street maybee from a 50 mph roll but not 0-60


Means, the high horses will be to feel when it comes from 60-120mph or something like that?

Thanks

[camcojb]

Means, the high horses will be to feel when it comes from 60-120mph or something like that?

Thanks

means you cannot hook 1000 hp with street radials, so the 3.6 second 0-60 will be extremely tough to do. However, from a roll 1000 hp is like a freight train, and very little can match the acceleration.

Jody

[californiacuda]

The 4 link, if its a parallel, won't make a difference on the street and the ride would be way too uncomfortable and harsh. Torque is what makes the car accelerate quickly. If you used some kind of positive displacent supercharger like a, roots, Kenne bell, Whipple, Magnuson that develop max torque at 2500 rpm, your max hp figure would probably not neeed to be more than 500-600 hp before your tires would blow off(depending on gearing, transmission, tire height, etc) up to 80=90 mph. My 2 cents.

[hannes_slanec]

The 4 link, if its a parallel, won't make a difference on the street and the ride would be way too uncomfortable and harsh. Torque is what makes the car accelerate quickly. If you used some kind of positive displacent supercharger like a, roots, Kenne bell, Whipple, Magnuson that develop max torque at 2500 rpm, your max hp figure would probably not neeed to be more than 500-600 hp before your tires would blow off(depending on gearing, transmission, tire height, etc) up to 80=90 mph. My 2 cents.

I dont need any more low end punch since traction is a problem anyway, that is why I want to go with boost from the midrange when I have grip again.
500-600HP would make my 540 as N/A.

The 4-link will make a big difference, the angle of the trailing arms to the street and to one another is everything, I have a lot of literature about that issue and will keep the advises:yes:

But lets come back to the topic, what benefits if I use a BBC over a SBC with the same performance?


:lateral: Thanks Hannes:lateral:


.

[CraigMorrison]

If your goal is sub 4 sec 0-60, build an engine that makes around 600hp and the money you save on a TT SBC/BBC will need to go into a traction control or launch control system.

[Flash68]

If your goal is sub 4 sec 0-60, build an engine that makes around 600hp and the money you save on a TT SBC/BBC will need to go into a traction control or launch control system.

That, or spend the extra money on relocating the motor to the rear over the axle so you can get traction! :D

[rich-allen]

You got your answer from people that know from first hand experience yet you still have an opinion on weather their right or wrong.

Nelson motors run $35k - $65k..

[hannes_slanec]

That, or spend the extra money on relocating the motor to the rear over the axle so you can get traction! :D

. :D :D :D


You got your answer from people that know from first hand experience yet you still have an opinion on weather their right or wrong.

Nelson motors run $35k - $65k..

. ???????


That, or spend the extra money on relocating the motor to the rear over the axle so you can get traction! :D

I such a system that expensive?

Thanks Hannes

[countryboy]

well as a true turbo guy (aka;nut), i have learned a thing or two about them.
First the main difference between a bbc and a sbc is displacement. which is everything with a turbo motor on the street. A bigger cid motor will replace the lost torque that is caused by turbo lag. Lag is the tendency to be doggy at rpms where you have little or no boost. now that doesn't mean you shouldn't run a small block, it means you should consider the cubes first. a larger engine (cid) will be easier to drive on the street and will be quicker off the line when not building boost first. Turbos can be very fun on the street and build power that hard to beat. Its possible to build very large small blocks these days. but building them isn't all that cheap when compared to a bbc of the same size.
Just some things to think on, hope this helps.

[tyoneal]

Say, "LSx Turbo".

[deuce_454]

im with countryboy on this... since its a streetcar id consider the offboost performance, (even nelson builds large smallblocks, 427 and 454 cui) where a v6 could deliver the same power at higher boost and rpm.. a larger dispacement engine is just much more driveable and pleasant on the street...

id go with the big block, especially if you have one allready.. and never mind the people going "you cant hook this or that" if you build a big block thats capable of 1500 hp, there is no law that states you cant leave the line at a reasonable rpm.. or limit boost in first gear...

[CraigMorrison]

. :D :D :D




. ???????




I such a system that expensive?

Thanks Hannes


There are UK systems that offer launch and traction control for turbo engines that can be had for around $2500. Add in the wheel sensors and other misc electronics and you can probably have a complete system for about $3000-$3500.

[deuce_454]

if you are installing efi ect. anyway, id install an autronic.. it has all the above fearures, and i think dalhems is the sweedish dealer...

[hannes_slanec]

well as a true turbo guy (aka;nut), i have learned a thing or two about them.
First the main difference between a bbc and a sbc is displacement. which is everything with a turbo motor on the street. A bigger cid motor will replace the lost torque that is caused by turbo lag. Lag is the tendency to be doggy at rpms where you have little or no boost. now that doesn't mean you shouldn't run a small block, it means you should consider the cubes first. a larger engine (cid) will be easier to drive on the street and will be quicker off the line when not building boost first. Turbos can be very fun on the street and build power that hard to beat. Its possible to build very large small blocks these days. but building them isn't all that cheap when compared to a bbc of the same size.
Just some things to think on, hope this helps.

and

im with countryboy on this... since its a streetcar id consider the offboost performance, (even nelson builds large smallblocks, 427 and 454 cui) where a v6 could deliver the same power at higher boost and rpm.. a larger dispacement engine is just much more driveable and pleasant on the street...

id go with the big block, especially if you have one allready.. and never mind the people going "you cant hook this or that" if you build a big block thats capable of 1500 hp, there is no law that states you cant leave the line at a reasonable rpm.. or limit boost in first gear...


That is what I thought too, my plan was actually to go with around 9-9,5:1 and set the wastegate at low 6-9PSI only.

That way I have a efficient stop and go traffic behavior and a good off boost performance.

Aside of that I have been told that it is a fairytail that flow isn´t important for turbocharged engines, if so the BBC with my Dart 320 heads will flow much better than any SBC.

I further plan to run CNG (Natural Compressed Gas), it is enviroment friendly and got higher octane numbers.

Thanks so far for the comments


As for the hook, I really plan to do anything like well adjusted 4-link, everything heavy in the trunk like sound-system, battery, and even the radiator will come in the rear, under the trunk to transfer the weight.

As soon as I have money, I change to an alu block, I will first then buy the turbo setup.

[hannes_slanec]

im with countryboy on this... since its a streetcar id consider the offboost performance, (even nelson builds large smallblocks, 427 and 454 cui) where a v6 could deliver the same power at higher boost and rpm.. a larger dispacement engine is just much more driveable and pleasant on the street...

id go with the big block, especially if you have one allready.. and never mind the people going "you cant hook this or that" if you build a big block thats capable of 1500 hp, there is no law that states you cant leave the line at a reasonable rpm.. or limit boost in first gear...

Seems like I never spent enought attention to your posting.

I see it the same, I can leave sensitive but can use the power later lets say from 80 to 150 or something.

1000hp seems to be more than enought but meanwhile I had a lot of toughts towares better traction like:

going with an all aluminum block
relocating the block back as far as possible
using a fiberglass hood
rear mount radiator and battery and everything else that adds weight will be mounted in the farest place back in the trunk
using a Jakes Rod Shop subframe with shockwaves. That frames allows me to get any tire-width I want to go in the rear.

in sum that should improve my traction a bit.

I people mean by hooking that I leave from a dead stop with no wheelspinn under full throttel than it wont hook but all the things I will do will have an effect I think....