Malitude's boost issues solved

[camcojb]

well, figured out what was causing me to struggle to make boost on the Chevelle. It was not the intercooler, although it's on the small side for this engine/turbo config. I was seeing 5-6 psi drop from the turbos (17 psi) to the intake (11-12 psi after the intercooler). So when Gerhard at Bell Intercoolers said my core was much too small and even guessed the pressure drop without me telling him, it all made sense.

You guys who said to drop the exhaust and see what happeens were on the right track. The car has a custom built 3" mandrel bent system to the rear of the car, with a pair of Stainless Works 3" turbo mufflers. I've noticed that the car is very quiet, so I pulled the exhaust apart at the muffler inlet and found that instead of the straight-through style I thought they were these were the chambered muffler. So I bought a pair of Magnaflow straight through 3" mufflers, same size as the SW units I had on the car, and swapped them out yesterday. I did it for more tone, and had a local car show today to try them out.

I drove out this morning, liking the new tone (not loud, pretty mellow), and never put my foot in it. On the way home I had to pass some slow moving traffic and rolled into the throttle.................. holy crap, the car is totally pissed off now. :wow: I immediately glanced at the boost gauge in time to see it fly past 20 psi and pulled my foot out of it. I experimented just rolling into the throttle and the boost comes up lightning-fast, way too much though for this combo.

I'll pull the extra springs out of the wastegates, and dial the boost controller back now. Evidently there must have been massive back pressure in that exhaust with those mufflers, because with that single change the car is completely different. Reminds me of the yellow car as far as power, but much smoother in it's delivery.

The only bummer was the car caught on fire about a block from my house......... :faint: I couldn't stop on the street, ditches on both sides, nowhere to pull over, no water to put the fire out. Turns out there were two fires going on; my fuse block was on fire, put it out with a water bottle after cutting the voltage at the battery. Also, the ps pump had spit some fluid out and it hit the downpipe, so small flames there. Let me say, I should have listened to Steve Rupp when he made a post recently about fire extinguishers. The car will not be driven without one from now on.

No damage to the paint or underhood, but the fuse block will have to be replaced. No car show next weekend like I planned, but at least the car makes boost now........... :thumbsup:

Jody

[zbugger]

Good to hear. And I've learned to never run chambered mufflers on a turbo application. I guess you've shown why. That sucks about the fires though. Hopefully they didn't do too much damage. If you need any info on the good extinguishers, let me know. There are a couple good ways you could go. Either way, look at getting Halon.

[camcojb]

Good to hear. And I've learned to never run chambered mufflers on a turbo application. I guess you've shown why. That sucks about the fires though. Hopefully they didn't do too much damage. If you need any info on the good extinguishers, let me know. There are a couple good ways you could go. Either way, look at getting Halon.

I would have never picked chambered mufflers for anything, especially not forced induction. This was the exhaust that was on the car when I bought it.

Jody

[Vegas69]

Jody....you would have been the last guy I would have thought would drive with no extinguisher. I am glad to hear you got lucky.:yes: For the rest of you guys.....don't drive your damn car without one unless you want a total loss. Listen now of pay alot later.

[monza]

Wow what a post ... Killer fixed the problem!! Then oh I had a couple of fires....:wow:

Glad you have boost and some thing still left for boost.

[lil427z]

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
rick k

[clill]

I guess he no longer needs to re-engineer the intercooler.

[camcojb]

I guess he no longer needs to re-engineer the intercooler.

makes me wonder what the old combo would have dynoed with decent mufflers................... ;)

Jody

[camcojb]

Jody....you would have been the last guy I would have thought would drive with no extinguisher. I am glad to hear you got lucky.:yes: For the rest of you guys.....don't drive your damn car without one unless you want a total loss. Listen now of pay alot later.


I carried water, does that count??????????!!!!!!! :D Yeah, actually have three regular extinguishers in my shop, but wanted something not messy like halon for the car, and hadn't picked one up. Could have been ugly for sure.

Jody

[Vegas69]

Don't mean to beat on you but you know how it is. Once people see your car and my car caught on fire maybe we can talk em into a little safety. Glad to hear you figured out your boost problem and you can enjoy it!!!! :cheers: And any extinguisher is better than nothing.

[blowngasr]

bet that heart rate went WAY-UP..................are your shoes smokin from movin so fast..........:rofl: ...................................only makin fun cause everythings ok......................the wizzzzz

[camcojb]

bet that heart rate went WAY-UP..................are your shoes smokin from movin so fast..........:rofl: ...................................only makin fun cause everythings ok......................the wizzzzz

yeah, fortunately you don't have to bail me out on this one........................ :lol: I do have to buy a new pair of shoes, black melted plastic all over my favorite ones........... :mad:

Jody

[Bowtieracing]

makes me wonder what the old combo would have dynoed with decent mufflers................... ;)

Jody

That is the otherside of the coin when builders hands are tight on sponsors products...:rolleyes:

What a horror story with the fires:( .It could be much worse.

[Flash68]

Good to hear Jody.

And good lesson on the fire ext. I know I am going to put one in - I didn't plan on it or even put any thought into it before.

[Blown353]

Great news... the mufflers anyways. The small fires are another matter entirely. :willy:

I'm kicking myself in the ass now for not asking you about the mufflers earlier. I remember when we were standing under the car on your lift and I saw those Stainless Works mufflers I meant to ask if they were "turbo" style mufflers (S-path) or the straight through variety-- stainless works makes both!

http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=e9a99257307919ef2e423d9fe6e6ad54

Obviously you had the "turbo"-style with the S-bend flowpath. Yuck!

If you had stuck a pressure gauge in one of the WB02 taps that would have told the story immediately...

A 5psi drop across the intercooler is still working the turbos harder than they need to be but if you're happy with the power and the IAT is reasonable I'd live with it rather than having to redesign and refab the entire nose of the car.

Next question... I believe a certain Silver twin turbo 69 Camaro in our area also has a stainless works exhaust... he might want to verify what mufflers he has, although based on how the car runs I'm pretty sure he has the straight through style.

[gearheads78]

Glad to hear you got it figured out and very glad this post did not include pics of a crispy Chevelle on the side of the road.

-Richard

[camcojb]

Great news... the mufflers anyways. The small fires are another matter entirely. :willy:

I'm kicking myself in the ass now for not asking you about the mufflers earlier. I remember when we were standing under the car on your lift and I saw those Stainless Works mufflers I meant to ask if they were "turbo" style mufflers (S-path) or the straight through variety-- stainless works makes both!

http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=e9a99257307919ef2e423d9fe6e6ad54

Obviously you had the "turbo"-style with the S-bend flowpath. Yuck!

If you had stuck a pressure gauge in one of the WB02 taps that would have told the story immediately...

A 5psi drop across the intercooler is still working the turbos harder than they need to be but if you're happy with the power and the IAT is reasonable I'd live with it rather than having to redesign and refab the entire nose of the car.

Next question... I believe a certain Silver twin turbo 69 Camaro in our area also has a stainless works exhaust... he might want to verify what mufflers he has, although based on how the car runs I'm pretty sure he has the straight through style.

I wonder if I even have a 5 psi drop now. Since the wastegates are sprung for 19 psi and I had the manual boost controller up all the way, it should be making 24-25 psi. The way the boost flew past 20 psi (gauge only goes to 20 psi) it may not be as bad as I thought.

Yes, the owner of the silver Camaro may have the same mufflers, as his car is every bit as quiet as mine was. You can tell the sound difference between the two easily, even with turbos. He is aware of it, and will be checking them soon.

Jody

[projectile]

Glad to hear that you solved your boost problem!
It sucks that it caught fire. Could've been worse! I see you lost a pair of shoes, did your shorts survive?:lol:

[camcojb]

Glad to hear that you solved your boost problem!
It sucks that it caught fire. Could've been worse! I see you lost a pair of shoes, did your shorts survive?:lol:

yeah, but it could have gone either way.............................. :D Damage is very minimal after looking some more today. Just the outside plastic piece of the fuse block that holds the fuses was damaged, all wires behind and on the firewall plug are perfect. Hopefully AAW can sell me just this piece.

I'm ordering a Safecraft extinguisher like Scott has tomorrow.

http://www.lateral-g.net/g69/project/interior/safecraft_0004.jpg

Jody

[DRJDVM's '69]

Wow....glad to hear theres wasnt much damage..

Any idea on why the electrical fire ??

[camcojb]

Wow....glad to hear theres wasnt much damage..

Any idea on why the electrical fire ??

not yet. I need to know why the fuse is melting the plastic rather than blowing. Seems like a loose connection/terminal in the fuse block. I'll have to see if AAW has any thoughts.

Jody

[Vegas69]

Really strange...when mine caught on fire it was in two spots. Collector fire was understandable but air cleaner fire I'm not sure about. Timing was right on. Oh well we both got damn lucky. I did have a fire extinguisher but not a clean agent. It was always in the plans.

[Stuart Adams]

Glad everything is ok. If you think its fast, that is saying something, WOW.

[XcYZ]

Based on what you're describing, I'd put money on a bad crimp on the conductor to the fuse receptacle.

[camcojb]

Based on what you're describing, I'd put money on a bad crimp on the conductor to the fuse receptacle.

I'm also wondering about an insufficient fan ground. I think that loads the power wires. I moved the ground directly to the engine block.

Jody

[camcojb]

Glad everything is ok. If you think its fast, that is saying something, WOW.

I think it's going to be pretty strong.................... :morepower

[BBC69Camaro]

Glad you figured out the boost problem. Sorry to hear about the fires, glad you were able to get them put out in time.

You have me worried about an extinguisher, gotta find a good one that I can mount in the trunk.

[Vegas69]

Oh no... in the cock pit is the place for the extinguisher.

[camcojb]

mine's going on the roll bar, right behind my seat. The extra time to get one out of the trunk could be the difference in putting it a fire out or not, I'd recommend inside the car in an easily accessible place.

Jody

[awr68]

Damn what a day! Fix 'the problem', and then almost loose the car!

Glad to hear all is well and that the car finally makes the power you hoped it would!! :thumbsup:

[jimhamptons]

Glad to hear you are ok and the car is running great.

[camcojb]

well, called AAW, talked to Donny, and got my problem figured out. When I wired the car I wanted the relays inside under the dash. The AAW kit comes with an orange relay trigger wire from the fusebox, through the firewall, and to the front of the car for the fans. I used this for the #30 power terminal of the relay, instead of the #86 12 volt trigger terminal it should have been used for. This caused all the fan load at the relay to be run through the 30 amp fuse in the fuse box, basically eliminating the advantage of the relay completely. This is a good lesson as to the dangers for those of you who run electric fans without relays............... ;)

Stupid mistake that could have caused major damage, so I was lucky. I want to thank Donny at AAW for the excellent support. I may have to send the fusebox back as it's apparently pretty difficult to remove these double barbed terminals. I'm going to see if I can remove them, otherwise I have to remove the harness from the car :( and either have it repaired or replaced.

Jody

[7TSS]

Sorry to hear about the fire mishap. Just glad you figured out all your boost and electrical issues. Now you get to really wring her out. Still waiting for some vids hehehe. :yes:

[Nutsy]

So I bought a pair of Magnaflow straight through 3" mufflers, same size as the SW units I had on the car, and swapped them out yesterday.

Jody,

what part number are these mufflers? I ask only because i am running magnaflow mufflers in my car and i want to make sure they are not the chambered ones.

Trev

[camcojb]

Jody,

what part number are these mufflers? I ask only because i am running magnaflow mufflers in my car and i want to make sure they are not the chambered ones.

Trev

these are # 14329 though they make several others that are straight through also, depending on size, inlet pipe size, config, etc. It was Stainless Works that had the chambered ones, not sure if Magnaflow does that or not.

Jody

[Blown353]

The only mufflers Magnaflow makes that aren't straight-through core are their "Turbo XL" mufflers, which use the same S-bend style of flowpath that all "turbo" style mufflers do.

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/universalsatinxl.asp

Personally, I never use a muffler that I can't hold up and see daylight through the other end. :)

[camcojb]

The only mufflers Magnaflow makes that aren't straight-through core are their "Turbo XL" mufflers, which use the same S-bend style of flowpath that all "turbo" style mufflers do.

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/universalsatinxl.asp

Personally, I never use a muffler that I can't hold up and see daylight through the other end. :)

good advice Troy. I can't begin to describe the difference on a forced induction build.

Jody

[clill]

Stielow kinda remembers that we had two sets of mufflers for the Mule. The quieter ones apparently ended up on Malitude.

[camcojb]

Stielow kinda remembers that we had two sets of mufflers for the Mule. The quieter ones apparently ended up on Malitude.

that is totally my luck................... :yes: I just wish I would have looked closer at them, never even thought they'd be on a turbo car. Good thing, this thing should haul now. When I get the wiring fixed it's off to finishing the tune and hit the dyno.

I would still take a peak at the Mule mufflers, cause it's a lot quieter than these new straight through mufflers.

Jody

[clill]

It's on my to do list but not real high on it.

[awr68]

I would still take a peak at the Mule mufflers, cause it's a lot quieter than these new straight through mufflers.

Jody


Could be free hp Charley!! :yes:

[clill]

I'm sure it needs it sitting in the barn.

[camcojb]

I'm sure it needs it sitting in the barn.

yeah, must be rough to have so many cars that a car as cool as the Mule just sits................... :D

Jody

[awr68]

I'm sure it needs it sitting in the barn.

Just give me the nod and I'll take her for a spin! Hate to see it just sitting there thinking you like the red car better!! ;)

[61Bubbletop]

Holy smokes Jody!...Glad to see the power issue is resolved, and happier to know you and the car are OK after the fire....I bet that was a "pucker factor" of 10!!:lol:
:lateral:

[Blown353]

I meant to offer this earlier Jody, but I'm near Detroit all this week. While I'm here do you want me to go smack Mark around a bit for putting these mufflers on in the first place?

I won't leave a horse head on his bed or anything, but he will get the message. Maybe half of a muffler or something on his doorstep. :lol:

[camcojb]

I meant to offer this earlier Jody, but I'm near Detroit all this week. While I'm here do you want me to go smack Mark around a bit for putting these mufflers on in the first place?

I won't leave a horse head on his bed or anything, but he will get the message. Maybe half of a muffler or something on his doorstep. :lol:

I don't think he picked them out, or even knew they were on the car; he thought they were straight through like I did.

He has a good sense of humor, but not sure how far that can be pushed............. :rofl:

Jody

[Blown353]

I don't think he picked them out, or even knew they were on the car; he thought they were straight through like I did.

He has a good sense of humor, but not sure how far that can be pushed............. :rofl:

Jody

I think any kind of junk muffler left on his doorstep that says "Love, Jody" would be appropriate. :D

[Nvrenuf]

Holy crap Jody. Solving boost then starting fires.... I just talked to you like 1 week ago. You trying to get your own reality TV show, or what? Don't want to hijack, but remember I'm BRAND new to the boost thing. When I hooked mine up to laptop, why would software show 17 lbs boost, but my dash gauge only show about 6? Where does the dash gauge read off of?
P.S. Ordering an extinguisher today:wow: Thanks for the lesson