Brakes not working well

[rsk68]

Well i'm still working out the bugs and brakes are one of them, I have Willwood 6 piston fronts and 4 piston rears with a Wilwood 1" master cylinder, the pedal is rather hard and feels like it just isnt stopping the car, like theres just not enough pressure, i vacumm bled the brakes and cant remember if i bled the MC, any suggestions on what i should try or look for, i also have there praportioning valve but its screwed all the way in for an open circuit. I guess the first thing i should do is bleed the master due to i cant remember if i ever have.

[camcojb]

are these manual brakes? Have you bed the pads yet?

Jody

[rsk68]

Hey Jody,
yes brakes are manual, and ignorance steps in, what do you mean bed them? are you talking about a stop and go type procedure to brake them in, if so no i havnt done anything other then try to stop and its a little scary.

[skatinjay27]

Hey Jody,
yes brakes are manual, and ignorance steps in, what do you mean bed them? are you talking about a stop and go type procedure to brake them in, if so no i havnt done anything other then try to stop and its a little scary.yes thats bedding them in... and if you dont recall bench bleeding the master then just do it to be safe... maybe check with wilwood on the proper bedding procedures ie:speeds/wait times for the pads you have i would bed them first before you attempt to bench bleed the MC cause either way the pads need to be beded and if thats the problem it saves you from haveing to pull the mc. have fun!

[wedged]

if you hadn't bled the mc, the pedal would be soft and spongy or just go right to the floor. It wouldn't be hard. It sounds like either your pedal ratio is off or the master cylinder has too large of a bore size for the calipers you are using.

[ironworks]

if you hadn't bled the mc, the pedal would be soft and spongy or just go right to the floor. It wouldn't be hard. It sounds like either your pedal ratio is off or the master cylinder has too large of a bore size for the calipers you are using.

What is the bore for your master? 1" for manual brakes and 1.125 for power brakes. Sounds like your bore is too big. Bedding the pads has nothing to do with the feel of the pedal. It helps the pads contact the rotor, but has nothing to do with the hydraulics.

[camcojb]

I drove a car with those same brakes and manual master, and it was the scariest car I've ever driven as far as stopping power. :faint: The bedding of the pads helped, but did not fix the issue. As above, you may have to go to a smaller diameter master, re-locate the arm on the brake lever for more leverage, or go to power brakes. I'd call Wilwood to see what they say, but I personally hate manual brakes.

Do you have the rod connected to the correct hole in the brake lever under the dash (the higher hole is manual brakes), or can you move it up and drill a new hole(watch the angle, needs to not be severe, plus the higher you go the less stroke you get so it's a balancing act)?
Jody

[rsk68]

hey Jody,
I will take a look when i get home tonight and see where the rod is on the pedal, I agree its a little scary and I may consider a Hydraboost, i have called over at Wilwood as i work about 200 yards away from them and they want to take a look at it also.

[rsk68]

Well I took a look last night and the rod is on the upper hole, so with that being eliminated I'm thinking just go Hydratech, I was looking at there site and there is no phone number to call them direct, PAUL are you here? I would like to talk to you.

[Payton King]

Call Wilwood and speak with one of the tech reps and they will get you squared away. I had the same problem and had to size my master way down, but i am running a twin set up. 5/8 front and 3/4 rear with a 5.3 pedal ratio. If you have the rod in the top hole you should have a 6:1 ratio. A 7/8 or 3/4 tandem master is probably what you need. Something else to check...what pad are you running. If you are running a BP-20, it is pretty agressive and will not stop well until a good amount of heat gets in the pad. A BP-10 would be better for the street (cold stops) and will still take autocross abuse. Save the BP-20's for track days.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Wrong master. You need a 7/8" master, not 1". Makes all the difference in the world. The part number you need is a 260-9439, add a (P) if you want polished.

[rsk68]

I called the Wilwood tech and realized a major issue on my brake lines to the front brakes, i made the dumb mistake of using the 2 front ports to plumb the lines when i should of ran one to a tee, I will make this change this weekend and try again.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We do 100s of Wilwood systems. It will still be the wrong master Rick. Go ahead and change it while you fixing the plumbing.

[rsk68]

Frank,
Thanks for the suggestion I will do just that, I have a call into Michael Hamrick at Wilwood to try and swap it out.

I wish you guys were on the west coast!

[Hydratech®]

Yes, the 7/8" bore Wilwood MC will make a considerable difference in place of the 1" bore unit. If you find that you are still not happy, Frank is also a Hydratech dealer and can set you up with one of our systems.

[rsk68]

If I run the hydraboost can i keep the 1" master?

[Hydratech®]

Yes, you can retain the 260-8555 1" bore Wilwood MC. We typically spec a 260-8556 1 1/8" version for a slightly firmer pedal, though your existing 1" version will run appropriately. Frank can set you up with either system # 3021 or # 3023. The new design Wilwood MC is a GM early / deep MC pushrod interface as you pull it out of its box, and this can plug n play with our # 3023 assist unit with the long MC rod. Or? Alternately, these new design Wilwood MC's come with an aluminum spacer plug or bullet that inserts into the deep MC pushrod hole for use on the 2nd Gen Camaro / later short MC rod spec - will interace with our # 3021 model when run with the spacer bullet.

[Nvrenuf]

Alright. Here come some dumb questions: I am having the exact same problem. Have not even looked into yet as I've had other fixes I've been working on.
I have wilwood MC with Baer brakes. Whats the easiest way to know what bore I have on MC? I will go start to investigate as that is the project I am tackling starting tomorrow.

EDIT: Ok, couldn't wait til tomorrow. So I just looked. I assume the "1" on bottom-side signifies mines a 1" bore?

So RSK68, what solution did you ever come up with? I think I have exact same problem!

[camcojb]

Alright. Here come some dumb questions: I am having the exact same problem. Have not even looked into yet as I've had other fixes I've been working on.
I have wilwood MC with Baer brakes. Whats the easiest way to know what bore I have on MC? I will go start to investigate as that is the project I am tackling starting tomorrow.

EDIT: Ok, couldn't wait til tomorrow. So I just looked. I assume the "1" on bottom-side signifies mines a 1" bore?

So RSK68, what solution did you ever come up with? I think I have exact same problem!

Add power or better yet Hydratechs hydroboost system. I've never had manual brakes that worked well enough to make me happy.

Jody