accel dfi thruster

[Blown90 Z]

i just bought the accel dfi thruster kit with wide band and was wondering is this an easy install or would you recommend to have someone install it for me? it is going on my 90 camaro.

[ohcbird]

That completely depends on your comfort level while working with wiring & tuning. If you have a stock TPI, etc; it's easy. What's your combo like?

PM me if you need any help- I believe you'll like the thruster; it's a great way to get a very tuneable EFI setup.

JEFF

[Blown90 Z]

i have the superram but same thing as the tpi, see sig for details. i will pm if i need help though. thanks

[ss9t7camaro]

hey hows it going i have an accel thruster dfi that i just bought and i was wondering what distributor did you use or can you use i have an msd dual sync but im not sure if its compatable i will apreciate any info

[sacarguy]

accell will tell you no ... most the accel dealers will tell you no

THEY ARE FULL OF CRAP

its a magnetic pickup for the crank sensor .. and a single magnetic pulse for cam you will only need to add a adjustable phasable cam rotor.

its as simple as that you set up the thruster in crank plus cam sync mode .. and then set up everything corespondingly ..

dont think of it as a distributor think of it as a crank triger and a magnetic cam sync.

[69MyWay]

I am installing a Gen VII Thruster with dual synch, wide band...and a host of goodies like a/c clutch, fan, and TCC control to the system. All of this on a modified Pontiac 400 in a 76 trans am. I'll be doing a full write up for Pontiac Enthusiast magazine.

I decided to edit my comments at this point as I don't want to appear to have passed judgement on the system BEFORE I have it installed and running.

There were no printed instructions with the set and there have been some changes since the instructions were posted to the download site. That has given me some trouble...but we are working through that now.

[ProdigyCustoms]

There is a wiring diagram that you can print. I had Kinkos do a blow up print 18 X 24 so I could hang it on the wall. Although I found 90% of the wiring self explanitory to someone that has installed a few systems. But I did have to make a few phone calls myself.

I remember my biggest glitch trying to figure out what wire the trigger wire on the ignition box was. i kept looking for a white wire, they did not tell me it was blue now! I was a little pissed about that!

If you need any help when you get it ready to fire let me know. You will find it pretty easy to learn on the tuning side. And the autocalc button is the best idea ever!

[69MyWay]

I remember my biggest glitch trying to figure out what wire the trigger wire on the ignition box was. i kept looking for a white wire, they did not tell me it was blue now! I was a little pissed about that!



:bow: :bow: :bow:

[ohcbird]

Chris-
CTRL+F1 gets you to the schematic. There is a drop-down menu at the top that has several diagrams you can print.

If you haven't, go to the following link for an update to your software.
http://accel-dfi.com/calmap/calmapdownload.asp

You'll find the updates there- and plenty of contacts for tech support.

To address some of your questions:
1. See above.
2. Hit kinkos or something if it's a problem. If you call tech & tell them you want a printed copy, they might send you one.
3. What dealer told you this?
4. What do you want from something called generic? If they make it a certain length, I'll bet you $100 that somebody will complain it's too long, or too short, etc.
5. They don't do drop-in fuel systems due to the fact that there are SO many different variations out there, and most older cars aren't even close to original anymore. Your dealer should have helped you plan it out a bit more.
6. See above answer for the same.

As for comparisons, what did you install the pro-flow systems on?

Even though you probably think I'm being a smartass, I'm offering my help anytime if you need it. PS- The AutoCalc is OK, but you'll have a fuel MAP that is purposely 10-15% rich. Fine tuning will definitely be in order.

JEFF

[69MyWay]

Even though you probably think I'm being a smartass, I'm offering my help anytime if you need it. PS- The AutoCalc is OK, but you'll have a fuel MAP that is purposely 10-15% rich. Fine tuning will definitely be in order.

JEFF


Nope...don't think you are at all. Just pointing out some facts with my opinion added in about the system. Also, during the week of SEMA, there was nobody answering the phones. The downloads were dead (would come up page not found) and I was stuck treding water for a while. They have since fixed them...but this may help you better imagine my frustration.

****
I am taking this Friday afternoon off - I have a replacement injector coming and hope to get the distributor phase set and move onto a test fire before locking and loading.

****

AFTER - this thing is up and alive...I'll post my .02 about everything. Not fair of me to have started "complaining" about it yet - as I truly hope all of that will be washed away by the performance.

[69MyWay]

A couple of questions for the Thruster experts.

1. I am wiring the cooling fan accessory pack harness. Got it hooked up and just noticed the relays are NORMALLY CLOSED - ie, the fans want to run all the time unless they get a ground input.

So - does the PCM send a ground singal all the time, then break that ground to trigger the fans???? If not, I need to re-wire the relays. This is confusing because I've never seen a normally closed relay for electric fans - they are always normally open and then get the ground to close the relay either through a temp switch, or from the computer.

2. The a/c harness interrupt. Noting question #1 - the Vintage Air a/c sytem has a trinary switch that makes a ground signal to trigger a cooling fan relay once the clutch is activated. The Gen VII is suppose to be able to "interupt this" so that we can program at how much throttle the a/c will disengage. Now...because of #1 above - I'm confused as heck as to what to do with that ground signal and how that ties back in. I can't even simply feed this into the fan relays now because if I ground them...they shut the fan off. This is really two questions at once, as the Gen VII interupts the power feed to the clutch - not the ground coming from the trinary switch - but it is also suppose to allow for control of the fans through the main fan hook up based on a input signal from the a/c through the accessory harness.

3. THE BIG ONE - For some reason, after you turn the key on the first time - the computer doesn't want to drop power to the ignition AFTER you turn it back off. My local installer/tuner tells me he has now seen this several times and talks about making a jumper harness with a light in it...etc. to override the problem but he isn't sure how to fix it. In other words, you can't shut the car off with the key once it starts. Something is getting energized and staying engergized. I have the distributor and PCM feed coming off the car's coil feed that is hot when the key is on, and stays hot while starting so the fuel pump and computer/ignition will stay hot while cranking. However, when you turn the key off, the stock 76 trans am wiring shuts power off to this lead...but the system is now keeping the power energized. There are three switched power leads. One to the distributor, one to the 300 box, and one to the PCM. They should all require to keep power on during the crank cycle - and I'm not aware of any other way to fee that off the ignition switch than what I'm doing now. The other main power lead is direct to the battery as indicated along with a direct lead to battery ground.

What gives? I'm sure this is simple to correct.

[69MyWay]

One other thing...AGain, I may be blind and just not seeing the download - but the transmission lock up harness came with no instructions as well.

I haven't a clue where to hook these wires and what to verify inside the pan before I fill it up with fluid.

[camcojb]

A couple of questions for the Thruster experts.

1. I am wiring the cooling fan accessory pack harness. Got it hooked up and just noticed the relays are NORMALLY CLOSED - ie, the fans want to run all the time unless they get a ground input.

So - does the PCM send a ground singal all the time, then break that ground to trigger the fans???? If not, I need to re-wire the relays. This is confusing because I've never seen a normally closed relay for electric fans - they are always normally open and then get the ground to close the relay either through a temp switch, or from the computer.

2. The a/c harness interrupt. Noting question #1 - the Vintage Air a/c sytem has a trinary switch that makes a ground signal to trigger a cooling fan relay once the clutch is activated. The Gen VII is suppose to be able to "interupt this" so that we can program at how much throttle the a/c will disengage. Now...because of #1 above - I'm confused as heck as to what to do with that ground signal and how that ties back in. I can't even simply feed this into the fan relays now because if I ground them...they shut the fan off. This is really two questions at once, as the Gen VII interupts the power feed to the clutch - not the ground coming from the trinary switch - but it is also suppose to allow for control of the fans through the main fan hook up based on a input signal from the a/c through the accessory harness.

3. THE BIG ONE - For some reason, after you turn the key on the first time - the computer doesn't want to drop power to the ignition AFTER you turn it back off. My local installer/tuner tells me he has now seen this several times and talks about making a jumper harness with a light in it...etc. to override the problem but he isn't sure how to fix it. In other words, you can't shut the car off with the key once it starts. Something is getting energized and staying engergized. I have the distributor and PCM feed coming off the car's coil feed that is hot when the key is on, and stays hot while starting so the fuel pump and computer/ignition will stay hot while cranking. However, when you turn the key off, the stock 76 trans am wiring shuts power off to this lead...but the system is now keeping the power energized. There are three switched power leads. One to the distributor, one to the 300 box, and one to the PCM. They should all require to keep power on during the crank cycle - and I'm not aware of any other way to fee that off the ignition switch than what I'm doing now. The other main power lead is direct to the battery as indicated along with a direct lead to battery ground.

What gives? I'm sure this is simple to correct.

1. Sure sounds like the relays are wired wrong. I've used many different efi systems and all of them that control the fans do it through the ground for the relay. The fans do not run until the computer grounds the relay, with a menu in the software to control the on and off temps for the fans. A quick test would be to set the on and off temps in the software, say 180 degrees on and 170 degrees off and turn the key on. If the fans are running and the water temp in the software isn't at 180 degrees then they are not wired correctly, or are defective in some way.

2. The ground trigger from the trinary switch should be wired into the relay ground. It automatically turns the fans on if the a/c is on regardless of engine temp, to control the a/c pressures. I don't think this is an issue with your wot a/c compressor shut off feature as the computer will still be controlling the fans through temps, so even if the a/c ground signal is removed the computer ground will keep the fans running.

3. If you have the correct key on wiring then it sounds like the ignition is feeding back and keeping the circuit going. May need a diode placed in line to prevent the feedback when the key is shut off. I would think that the instructions for the ignition box would mention this as a possibility if it's a common issue. Have you tested the lines individually to see which one is providing the feedback (un-plug two of them and just hook up one at a time until it occurs).

Jody

[69MyWay]

1. Re-wired the fan relays - all is well there now.

2. A/C harness taken care of when fan relays were in proper working order (switched to normally open and ground activated)

3. Still can't shut it off. Didn't look into this in much detail tonight. Don't know if I have an improper hook up, or if I need a diode or light wire hooked to the system through the main power feed????

4. Transmission - pulled the pan and studied the harness and wires there. Figured out to hook up the ground, then run the other lead back from the 4th gear pressure switch so the computer would sense 4th gear - then ran the hot feed coming from the relay to the TCC solenoid.

Got it running for a brief moment -

Need to figure out the no-shut-off thing...then set up for the cam break in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXvVjBZCpwk

[camcojb]

good job Chris.

Jody

[69MyWay]

Okay - looks like I connected the 12+ switched (OUTPUT) from the dual synch back to 12+ switched. While that seems to make sense on the surface, it is an output 12, not input. This appears to be what is keeping it energized and in a circle loop after turning the key on and not allowing the car to shut off.

I'll snip that and see where we are.

Friday I'll have time to tinker. All systems should be go. The local programmer will come over for the break in start up and initial program.

From there we'll see what this system has to offer.

I am thinking about writing a quick reference "Accel Thruster for Dummies"....(people like me that work 40 hour a week jobs behind a desk and only play with this stuff once in a while...). LOL!

[69MyWay]

It lives.....

Turned out the ecm was bad and was not firing the #1 injector. That was causing all kinds of early start up (and cam break in) issues. Put in another computer after testing all wiring - etc, and confirmed the problem.

Put about 70 miles on it this weekend. So far so good. Just had a cooling fan issue where it quit turning on the secondary fan. Don't know if that is the relay, wires...etc, but with the cool weather not a problem right now.

I am pleased to say the car is smooth and our gamble on doing the 700R4 and 2:41 rear gears worked. It is just at an idle around 60 mph - hard to tell the engine is running, then just a tip of the toe and it roars.

The best part is the shaker hood went back on with no mods due to the lower profile of the 1,000 cfm throttle body.

[slammed con]

i recently purchased one i wish i could return it the harness is a joke and by the time you purchase everything to use this system but thats just my opinion:_paranoid

[Efi69Cam]

i recently purchased one i wish i could return it the harness is a joke and by the time you purchase everything to use this system but thats just my opinion:_paranoid


define a joke harness?

[slammed con]

A joke harness is an accel harness thats three feet too long and having three of the brand new sensor connectors falling off ans having to take ut to a locak accel dealer and they said theyve seen it before but they fixed it for free then my sequential distributor sub harness came and it was fitted with the wrong weather packs once again it eas fixed for free so :P hopefully that will give you an idea accel cheeraleader:thumbsup:

[camcojb]

A joke harness is an accel harness thats three feet too long and having three of the brand new sensor connectors falling off ans having to take ut to a locak accel dealer and they said theyve seen it before but they fixed it for free then my sequential distributor sub harness came and it was fitted with the wrong weather packs once again it eas fixed for free so :P hopefully that will give you an idea accel cheeraleader:thumbsup:

asking a simple question doesn't make someone a "cheerleader". By the way, a few periods in there would make it a lot easier to read........ :thumbsup:

Jody

[69MyWay]

A joke harness is an accel harness thats three feet too long and having three of the brand new sensor connectors falling off ans having to take ut to a locak accel dealer and they said theyve seen it before but they fixed it for free then my sequential distributor sub harness came and it was fitted with the wrong weather packs once again it eas fixed for free so :P hopefully that will give you an idea accel cheeraleader:thumbsup:

Speaking of...does your harness have any weather pack (rubber grommets) in the connectors that go to the main ecm? Mine doesnt. The local dealer usually installs his computers under the hood and I asked how/why would you do that without any moisture protection on the harness connectors. :faint:

[Efi69Cam]

A joke harness is an accel harness thats three feet too long and having three of the brand new sensor connectors falling off ans having to take ut to a locak accel dealer and they said theyve seen it before but they fixed it for free then my sequential distributor sub harness came and it was fitted with the wrong weather packs once again it eas fixed for free so :P hopefully that will give you an idea accel cheeraleader:thumbsup:

Just curious what your thoughts are. Every Accel harness I've installed I've had to dissect and reroute. The Gen 6 and 7 Chevy harnesses were designed for a 3rd gen f-body with a TPI small block and the ECM installed under the dash.

[slammed con]

Speaking of...does your harness have any weather pack (rubber grommets) in the connectors that go to the main ecm? Mine doesnt. The local dealer usually installs his computers under the hood and I asked how/why would you do that without any moisture protection on the harness connectors. :faint:
in fact mine does not i preffer it was weather proof such as the fast Xfi but accel does not reccomend to install the ecm in the engine bay:_paranoid

[slammed con]

Just curious what your thoughts are. Every Accel harness I've installed I've had to dissect and reroute. The Gen 6 and 7 Chevy harnesses were designed for a 3rd gen f-body with a TPI small block and the ECM installed under the dash.I would have to agree on the disecting of the harness .What was the thruster designed around?:_paranoid

[69MyWay]

FYI - the ACCEL harness is the same no matter the application with the exception of the ignition harness.

This is why some might find it to be a poor fit. In my case I installed it on a 400 cid Pontiac motor with a World Products EFI manifold.

I admit that other harnesses I have installed were designed for the specific engine system and that would explain why there is less bulk and issues with those.

On another note - We have this one in and running. Other than final tuning we are looking into another possible ECM fault as it won't turn on Fan 1 - No matter where the program is set for turn on temp - it won't initiate the ground.

We replaced the original ECM from the start due to a bad driver on #1. That one has been returned and I'll swap the loaner out and hopefully solve the #1 fan problem with a possible bad output on this ECM.

Otherwise - it runs very smooth. I have made a couple of hard runs with a G tech. The car weighs in at 3,625 without driver or passenger. We are running a 700R4 with 2:41 rear gears (you read that right). It has a 2,600 stall converter. It ripped a 5.3 0-60 just blowing the rear tires off and a 13.9 1/4. This comes from a car that stock ran a 8 second 0-60 and a 17 second 1/4 mile.

It is lean on hard acceleration and I'm getting spark knock. I believe after fixing that and getting a handle on launching it those numbers will fall.

The best part.....1,500 RPM at 70 mph baby...and smooth as glass in all gears while just cruising. We may push 30 mpg out of this puppy if we stay out of the gas pedal!