Interesting......

[907rs]

So I'm at Schucks buying spark plugs yesterday, and look what I found!! :thumbsup: Congrats Scott!

[XcYZ]

That's pretty cool, Bill. I didn't know anything about it. I hope Kris is aware of it.

[907rs]

I begged and pleaded with the manager for the display, but he just wouldn't budge. It was rush hour and I wasn't going to drive home to get my camera, then drive back through traffic, so I just bought the whole thing.

Anyone need some polish? :D

[TwinTurboTexan]

:yes: nice

[Kris Horton]

Hmm...I'm not sure how to react to this. Part of me wants to look into whether or not I might have a case against them for copyright infringement and the other part of me thinks it's cool.

I think it's pretty rude that there's no consideration given to me or Scott. I figure a company would know better than to pull artwork off the internet and use it for their gain without contacting anyone about it.

Any thoughts?

Kris

[camcojb]

Hmm...I'm not sure how to react to this. Part of me wants to look into whether or not I might have a case against them for copyright infringement and the other part of me thinks it's cool.

I think it's pretty rude that there's no consideration given to me or Scott. I figure a company would know better than to pull artwork off the internet and use it for their gain without contacting anyone about it.

Any thoughts?

Kris


Those are my thoughts exactly. I'd buy a case if they did any of your renderings of my car, but at the same time wonder where they get the guts to grab them in the first place.

I would at least make a call I think to the company and see what they say. Maybe give you some free product!

Jody

[XcYZ]

I did some digging, and I found their number on an MSDS sheet.

Blue Magic, Inc.
936-539-1555

I'm surprised they didn't talk to someone first. These renderings aren't cheap (and Kris invests a lot of time), it would be nice to have some say in where it goes in a commercial application.

[Kris Horton]

I've had people come to me in the past asking to use my artwork commercially. I don't charge a lot, but I do ask for some fee since they are using it for their benefit. I usually don't have a problem with it, but if there's anything that really gets to me, it's when people have no regard for the rights to the pictures and just use them like that. I might give them a call later today when I have a minute (at work right now) and ask them what's up.

Kris

[XcYZ]

I talked to Greg at Blue Magic about the use of the rendering and he was super cool about it. It appears this may have been a sub-contracted deal and not necessarily the work of Blue Magic directly.

Regardless, Greg was super cool, into cars, and I feel better that I could at least vioce my concern about a commercial application of the artwork that I consider a trademark of Lateral-g.net. :)

[Kris Horton]

That's good that he was cool about it, but I'm actually a little more irritated now because they paid someone else to make the art for them and all they did was pull some of my work off the internet and used it to get paid...very uncool. Did he have any idea who it was?

Kris

[XcYZ]

Kris, he's going to be calling me back after he gets to the bottom of it. :)

[Kris Horton]

That's cool. Pass on my thanks and if there's any more questions as to the rights to the images, he can call me as well and we'll work something out. It's not so much a money issue as it is giving credit where it's due (to Lateral-G and me.)

Kris

[Huxsol81]

When you find out who is responsible for this ask him what size shoes he wears, and ill start mixing the cement! :mad: I agree this is very inconsiderate to capitalize on someone elses time and hard work.

[907rs]

When you find out who is responsible for this ask him what size shoes he wears, and ill start mixing the cement! :mad: I agree this is very inconsiderate to capitalize on someone elses time and hard work.

LMAO, Darrell!!!

Are the other images your work as well Kris?

[Kris Horton]

LMAO, Darrell!!!

Are the other images your work as well Kris?

Nope, just the Camaro.

Kris

[T Bell]

they look like regular pictures to me. How can you tell with the blurry dot thing going on?

[Kris Horton]

Because an artist tends to recognize his own work. :yes:

Kris

[907rs]

they look like regular pictures to me. How can you tell with the blurry dot thing going on?

Because it's one of the best Kris's done, and I'd recognize it anywhere! :)

See:
http://www.lateral-g.org/rendition/scott1.jpg

[BC69]

Oh its obviously Kris's and Scott's. I recognized it right away from your pictures too. The others do seem like real cars, but thats def Scotts Camaro.

So how bout like a free years supply of Blue Magic or something??


Tim

[Steve Chryssos]

Wow! Looks like you both have a clear cut case for copyright infringement. Any court will be able to match the image's "fingerprint" And ignorance may not be a suitable defense.

Email me if you need the number of my intellectual properties attorney.

[Ummgawa]

Streetfighter wrote:
Email me if you need the number of my intellectual properties attorney.

Call me if you just need someone to verbally kick em in the nuts.
Buncha Butthole Liberal Bedwettin' pass the buck dickloafs.

They have final sayso on print/appearance/content. They are culpable. Plausable deniability won't work here.

I feel better now.

[Kris Horton]

Me and my dad (technically my business partner) are talking with a law firm right now. They are doing some research to see what kind of case we may have. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but if I let this slide, it won't bode well for me in potential future problems.

[Ummgawa]

Sic em Kris :D

[Kris Horton]

Haha. Not out to get anybody just yet, but definitely to straighten some things out. Waiting on advice on whether or not to pursue anything further from the legal firm. We'll see what happens. I'll keep you all posted.

Kris

[BC69]

Sic em Kris

Kris, I dont really know you but from posts on all the sites I can tell you are a truly down to earth nice guy thats doing something amazing. You seem like a really nice guy. But your artwork is allllll over the net being posed as everything from GM Designers new Camaros, to some kids art who messed with yours a little.
I know you probably mean well, but you are running a business, no matter how small...and you have rights associated with it, legal and other. I think its good you are researching your options, and I would hope you would take some action is applicable to this case.
I am sure there are bigg things ahead of you with your talent, so protect it as best you can now.

Tim

[Musclerodz]

I would definitely go after the contractor by whatever means possible. Not for money issue but as you said, possible future issues. You and Scott have solid copyright infringements and courts don't usually take those lightly.

Mike

[Kris Horton]

Thanks man, I appreciate it! Pics on the net are hard to regulate, but the second it hits print or something like that box, it's time to put my foot down. I'm planning on including Scott in this (provided he wants to be involved) since he paid me to do the artwork and is also a trademark of Cars by Kris and Lateral-G.

[XcYZ]

Kris, I dont really know you but from posts on all the sites I can tell you are a truly down to earth nice guy thats doing something amazing.

Tim, you're right, Kris is a VERY down to earth guy. In fact, he's just a car guy like any one of us, he just happens to have the eye and the skills to create fantastic digital automotive art. Kris and I go waaaaaaay back. Have known each other for a number of years. :thumbsup:

[Huxsol81]

Can I start on the shoes??? PLEASE!!!! :thumbsup:

[clill]

If you don't go after them you compound the problem because you knew they did it. Non action can be construed as permission. Then the next guy will hang his hat on your non action as it being OK. A good attorney in the licensing field will know what to do. I'm sure there are industry standards for fees for that type of photo usage. The guy saved some dough by not purchasing the pics rights and got caught. Looks like you are going to make some money.

[Kris Horton]

Good advice Charley. It'll be good to make an example of someone that does it this time instead of trying to make a case down the road after having let it slide before.

Kris

[Steve1968LS2]

That's pretty cool, Bill. I didn't know anything about it. I hope Kris is aware of it.

You should get some free bottles or TR3 at the very least.. call them and demand your .02$

;)

[awr68]

Damn Bill look what you started!! J/K :D

Kris IS a VERY nice guy, but that's no reason not to ask permission to use his work...and from what he said, he wouldn't have charged that much anyways...they certainly should have asked!!!

Go get em boys!!! :thumbsup:

[tndude]

Here is an idea Kris....Demand a large quantity of free polish and then you can sell it to us cheap. All the proceeds will go to you. Cha-Ching. Then you’ll get compensated and we can get cheap polish. That way everybody is happy….. :D

Hey….just an idea :unibrow:

[RussMS]

Go get em Kris.

Thanks to Billl for pointing out the Jerks that did this.

[907rs]

Here is an idea Kris....Demand a large quantity of free polish and then you can sell it to us cheap. All the proceeds will go to you. Cha-Ching. Then you’ll get compensated and we can get cheap polish. That way everybody is happy….. :D

Hey….just an idea :unibrow:

That reminds me of an episode of Sienfeld I saw. :D

When you guys win the lawsuit don't forget my cut. My fee is reasonable. ;)

[Ummgawa]

Jackie Chiles, Esquire. at your service. :D

[Bill Howell]

If you don't go after them you compound the problem because you knew they did it. Non action can be construed as permission. Then the next guy will hang his hat on your non action as it being OK. A good attorney in the licensing field will know what to do. I'm sure there are industry standards for fees for that type of photo usage. The guy saved some dough by not purchasing the pics rights and got caught. Looks like you are going to make some money.

What he said.
In legal circles, it is called "setting a precedent". If you let it slide now, and the next one is a major deal, their lawyers can say you let it slide this time, so you can not complain about them.
This sounds an awful lot like a conversation you and I had months ago Kris when I told you about protecting your rights and interest in your renderings. Get a standard contract now, before you do anymore renderings so you will have a leg to stand on (not if but) when this kind of thing arises. Believe me, this is just the tip of the iceburg. :thumbsup:

[67Sally]

I agree. Go after them Kris and Scott. It is not that I do not want to share with my Laterl-g family but this is exactly the type of thing that keeps me from posting the renderings that Kris is finishing up for me.

The only public image of my project; other than those that Kris and I have shown certain people; is my avitar and it is scarry how many people send me emails about it........"where did you find that", "can you send me other images", bla, bla, bla.
W.

(EDIT) Kris you may want to put a warning on your page that states that the images are copymarks/trademarks of your company and the vehicle owner and that unauthorized use will result in legal action. It may not stop'em but it will be a benifit when you do go after them.
W

[Kris Horton]

Good points Bill and William.

I'm talking with some lawyers right now and they are confident that I have a good case against them. I just need to find the people that made the package design and hope that they're not broke or anything.

Kris

[jannes_z-28]

If you don't go after them you compound the problem because you knew they did it. Non action can be construed as permission. Then the next guy will hang his hat on your non action as it being OK. A good attorney in the licensing field will know what to do. I'm sure there are industry standards for fees for that type of photo usage. The guy saved some dough by not purchasing the pics rights and got caught. Looks like you are going to make some money.

This is pretty strictly regulated among photographers,writers and other artworkers worldwide and should be an easy case for any attorney.

Kris you will have a solid case suing them on a pretty large chunk of the turnover they have on these products.

About the rights on your artwork you can sell it in different variations. Photos can be sold on one printrun only or forever. It is just up to you and the buyer of the artwork.

Just be sure to tag the images with your Copyright information in Photoshops fileinfo box.

Jan

[XcYZ]

I stopped by the local Checkers today, and the TR-3 display with the artwork of my car was on the counter.

[nvawgn]

kris, i thought i would throw in my 2 bits if you don't mind. first off you might not have wanted your images associated with this company for many difern't reasons, thus you need compensation and astronomical fees are commen place. i worked in the fasion industry for many years and with like situations when a company has used an image they have not paid for i was duely compensated(and very well i might add). for example, just for the image for the day could be anywhere from 5k to 200k and up, depending who you are and what it is being used for. for the nation wide campaign as is with your situation depending on how long they run it for and again who you are could be anywhere from 50k to a mill and up. always remember when your being compensated that you have worked hard to be where you are at and you create 1 of a kind art that is highly sought after by GM and other large organizations and your fees are ajusted in a like matter not to their liking but to yours, if not they can go else where. problem is they can't the damage has already been done

[907rs]

I stopped by the local Checkers today, and the TR-3 display with the artwork of my car was on the counter.

Were you able to talk them out of the display?

[Kris Horton]

Nvawgn,

Thanks for the info. I should be getting more info on Tuesday and we'll see where that takes us.

I'm headed over to Kragen later to see if they have the display. I'll be taking my camera.

Kris

[RPM Frank]

I hate to say it but I've been down this road before on one of my designs, so here's my 2 cents.

Use an attourney in your state and make sure you file there, it's the defendants responsibility to travel to "wherever" in it's own defense, do not let a firm from the state where the infringing company is based sell you on the idea that it would be better served there. The court systems are far more partial to residents of thier own state regardless of the case.

Research your lawyer, make sure they have had good success in this area before. No lawyer can be everywhere all the time so a good firm will have a para-legal act as your first line of communication. The para-legals are really the backbone to any well structured case, the lawyers job is to take his/her knowledge of the law and make it work for you, the para-legals are the ones who research and outline the information for the lawyer to work with.

Make sure your lawyer has a plan of attack for when the the company thats using your image on it's advertising tries to separate itself from the company that created the advertisement for them. "This is going to happen the moment you step before the judge". Your lawyer should be prepared to ask for exactly how many copies of the image are in circulation and ask to be awarded a royalty fee per item right then and there even if the money needs to be escrowed with the courts. Ultimately the fight is going to come down to between you and the advertising firm, but at least you'll have the complete cooperation of the manufacturer in speeding up the works.

Structure your legals fees based off the total award at the end of the case, the larger the settlement the bigger the % the firm gets, that will keep them motivated.

Like I said earlier, just my 2 cents but this does really come from past experience.

Good Luck.

[XcYZ]

Were you able to talk them out of the display?

No Bill, I didn't ask for one of them, but I did give them my business card which uses the same image as the one that Blue Magic stole for use on their display.