Car value and insurance..

[Steve1968LS2]

Now that Penny is almost done I'm starting to rework my insurance. what do you think my Camaro is worth? What could it be reasonably sold for?

No, I'm not selling. Just trying to get a grasp. Lots of high end parts, but it doesn't have the cushy stuff like AC or power brakes.

http://www.fquick.com/garages/Chevro...aro/1968/3891/

Thoughts?

For those not familar you can find pics here along with some videos (at the bottom of my page)

http://www.z069.us/68/pics.htm

Thanks...

Also, I have Farmers now but it's the stupid "parade and shows" insurance. Would Hagerty be better? Suggestions?

[jack67rs]

Steve, I've got mine insured through Grundy, If I remember correctly 95,000 for about $600.00 a year. With all your "prototypes" and "test car Pieces", you probably have what 35,000 in your car? :lol: Even without ac your car is sooooooo sweet, I could see your car bringing 120-150 if you ran it through Barrett, but then street value is hard to predict.

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve, I've got mine insured through Grundy, If I remember correctly 95,000 for about $600.00 a year. With all your "prototypes" and "test car Pieces", you probably have what 35,000 in your car? :lol: Even without ac your car is sooooooo sweet, I could see your car bringing 120-150 if you ran it through Barrett, but then street value is hard to predict.

Well, of my own cash I have substancially less than the value of hte car. :unibrow:

I suck at estimating value. I'm sure I could get more than $60k.. Just not sure how much more.

How is Grundy compared to Hagerty?

[camcojb]

I would be insuring it at 6 figures or real close. And you are one brave man having that car insured by Farmers! :wow: Please change it asap. You need to have an agreed value policy for that car.

Jody

[ProdigyCustoms]

Parish Heacock has great rates, usually better then Grundy, Hagerty, and the others. And they just paid $24K on a small under hood fire on a friends car, and never blinked at my estimate / bill. Paid instantly and paid the supplement with no question.

Also, another intersesting thing is they insure my street racer, with nitrous, with a roll bar, which will get you excluded with others. Also, My street racer is coverd at the race track. When I hit the staging lanes, its covered, in the pits, its covered, on the return road, it's covered. It's covered the entire time except for the 9 seconds it is on the track

[camcojb]

Parish Heacock has great rates, usually better then Grundy, Hagerty, and the others. And they just paid $24K on a small under hood fire on a friends car, and never blinked at my estimate / bill. Paid instantly and paid the supplement with no question.

Also, another intersesting thing is they insure my street racer, with nitrous, with a roll bar, which will get you excluded with others. Also, My street racer is coverd at the race track. When I hit the staging lanes, its covered, in the pits, its covered, on the return road, it's covered. It's covered the entire time except for the 9 seconds it is on the track


I'm going to get a quote from them. My Grundy policy is renewing this month, so it's a good time to see how they compare.

Jody

[Van B]

I am in the same boat, Steve. My insurance guy wants an appraisal but the classic car dealers around here who normally write appraisals don't really understand our type of car. To them, if it is not a resto it isn't worth anything.

I know what it would cost to replace mine, so I am going to see if I can use that somehow to help them arrive at an agreed value.

Jody, any hints on how to arrive at an agreed value? Will some companies take your word for it?

[camcojb]

I am in the same boat, Steve. My insurance guy wants an appraisal but the classic car dealers around here who normally write appraisals don't really understand our type of car. To them, if it is not a resto it isn't worth anything.

I know what it would cost to replace mine, so I am going to see if I can use that somehow to help them arrive at an agreed value.

Jody, any hints on how to arrive at an agreed value? Will some companies take your word for it?


I have not had to do an appraisal with Hagerty or Grundy. Need good pics though. I just gave a value and they agreed.

Jody

[Van B]

I had heard that Hagerty was not fond of insuring modified cars, especially those with rollcages.

[Steve1968LS2]

I would be insuring it at 6 figures or real close. And you are one brave man having that car insured by Farmers! :wow: Please change it asap. You need to have an agreed value policy for that car.

Jody

It is an agree value deal and was fine while it was being built. Now I want better.

They have a TON of driving restrictions, but the policy is agreed value :)

[Steve1968LS2]

I had heard that Hagerty was not fond of insuring modified cars, especially those with rollcages.

Wow, they would hate my car then.. lol

[camcojb]

It is an agree value deal and was fine while it was being built. Now I want better.

They have a TON of driving restrictions, but the policy is agreed value :)


it's not agreed value if it's from Farmers. Read this and then go look at your policy on the page where they show how they'll pay the claim in a loss.

http://www.faia.com/web/2005/08/stated_amount_vs_agreed_value.aspx

Jody

[mazspeed]

It is an agree value deal and was fine while it was being built. Now I want better.

They have a TON of driving restrictions, but the policy is agreed value :)

Hey Jody is dead on. The company I go with has insured my car for $125k and will be higher once the adjuster sees that it's done. I pay $425 a year with 3000 miles per year allotment, but I'm changing it too 5k or more. Your car should be in the 125-150k easy, because that's what it would take to duplicate. You must also present receipts as well. I shopped around for about 4 weeks before I went with Town and Country. They did an agreed upon value for a total loss or theft of the value of what the appraiser and I agreed too. I'm not aware of Farmers doing an agreed upon value for the car especially in California. I would look into that real quick and then change your carrier for that one car.

[trapin]

I have Hagerty insurance on my car...I think their rates are pretty reasonable. I get in arguements with my cousin about this all the time. He has a '72 Nova that he had appraised for $17,000 and he has something called "classic car insurance" through State Farm. He swears that it is "agreed upon" value and that if his car is ever stolen that the insurance company will fork over the $17,000 that it was appraised for. I have my doubts. Everyone I talked to says don't ever have a major provider insure your classic car because it is never "agreed upon" value. But he won't listen. Guy's as stubborn as they come. I'd love to show him a printout of Jody's link but I fear it'll just cause an arguement with him again.:rolleyes:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Well, on a $17,000 car, he is probably fine, and it may be better actually because he won't have mileage restrictions, or storage restrictions. It is when you have a $100K car you have potential big issues.

For example, we are covering Michaels Monte Carlo ($25K car? that has to park outside at home, no garage space) on our regular Gieco policy because he is driving it everyday. On the Monte Carlo we added a $20K endorsment to the policy, cost use a additional $350 on top of the regular coverage cost. The endorsment is there to cover the wheels, the additional repair cost of the paint if it is damaged, stereo, And any other "non original" items the insurnce company may not understand in case of damage, vandilisam or theft. Also, in the event of theft of the entire car, the insurance policy will pay $20K over present number 1 book value of the car(which seems to be about $8K for a clean 86 Monte Carlo SS). The insurance company will have a good selcetion of pictures, along with important receipts for major parts and labor.

I run these endosments on a couple my other regular driver cars with wheels, stereos, etc, and have had a $4,000 endorsment and $3950 claim on 22" wheels stolen off Lisa's Avalanche a couple years ago. They paid instantly.

So I think if the car is under $25K value, or if the car is a regular car with some kind of clear book value and has up to $20K in improvments (a late model car with twin turbos, wheels, etc comes to mind), a endorsment on a conventional policy may be better in some cases.

[camcojb]

Well, on a $17,000 car, he is probably fine, and it may be better actually because he won't have mileage restrictions, or storage restrictions. It is when you have a $100K car you have potential big issues.




I agree Frank. On a cheaper car it's not a big deal to go with a regular policy, but in Steve's case it would be a disaster if it was totaled or stolen. And I'm 99.9% sure he has stated value which is where all the risk comes from.

I'd like him to check and post a copy of his policy, at least the payout page to verify. Then maybe he'll want to do a story in the mag, because there are a ton of guys out there with State Farm, Allstate, Farmers classic type policies that think they have agreed value when they do not.

Jody

[camcojb]

well, for now I'll stick with Grundy. Parish Heacock was about 40% higher ($200 more per year) on my combo with a 3000 mile limit per year which I do not have with Grundy. So in my case it doesn't make sense, but I'm sure the particular car changes the rates a bunch.

Jody

[Steve1968LS2]

I agree Frank. On a cheaper car it's not a big deal to go with a regular policy, but in Steve's case it would be a disaster if it was totaled or stolen. And I'm 99.9% sure he has stated value which is where all the risk comes from.

I'd like him to check and post a copy of his policy, at least the payout page to verify. Then maybe he'll want to do a story in the mag, because there are a ton of guys out there with State Farm, Allstate, Farmers classic type policies that think they have agreed value when they do not.

Jody

I've been planning on doing a story on insurance. Sort of like the one on did about getting ripped off buying a car online.

I didn't worry too much about the insurance for the last year for two reasons. First is that the car has been in fully insured shops and I haven't driven it yet. Now that drive time is around the corner I want to get it sorted out.

So Haggerty or Grundy? Someone else? If anything this is good info for my story :)

I will dig up the policy but you could be corrent about the "stated value" deal.

[mazspeed]

I've been planning on doing a story on insurance. Sort of like the one on did about getting ripped off buying a car online.

I didn't worry too much about the insurance for the last year for two reasons. First is that the car has been in fully insured shops and I haven't driven it yet. Now that drive time is around the corner I want to get it sorted out.

So Haggerty or Grundy? Someone else? If anything this is good info for my story :)

I will dig up the policy but you could be corrent about the "stated value" deal.

Ill give you my info after work today Steve. Ill e-mail you the number and you can call them to compare.

[Steve1968LS2]

I called American Colletor Insurance and, since I'm a AAA member, they transfered me to Amirican Hobbiest Insurance. It's a sister Company.

7500 miles a year
Because of my cage I have to agree to NO racing (in writing)
Pleasure driving
$100,000 in coverage

$1,222.66 a year paid in lump sum.

The cage freaked them out.. lol

Also, they wanted reciepts but many parts on my car have no reciept so they said I could make a list of parts and give the values of each part. They don't use appraisals, which seemed wierd.

[Steve1968LS2]

Called Grundy

$100,000 coverage

No mileage restrictions
Pleasure and event driving only
No Racing
0 deductable (the other place had $500)

Agreed value - they don't need an apprasial or a "parts list" like the other place.

$683.00 a year

So why the price descrepency? It's half the price.

And the hunt goes on.. lol

[trapin]

Did you try Haggerty yet?

[Rick Dorion]

Wow, they would hate my car then.. lol
They added 50% to my policy when I added my cage.

[jimhamptons]

Steve,

If you are interested, give Tami or Jackie a call over at MK Insurance. They are a sponsor on the Yenko site and I have my 3 cars with them all on agreed value with a highly rated carrier.

http://www.mkinsuranceagency.com/pc2/index.aspx?sid=17981

Jim

[Steve1968LS2]

Did you try Haggerty yet?

I thought Haggerty didn't like "modded" cars? My car is a poster child for Modded.

[BonzoHansen]

Yeah, they hate caged cars. Cages mean 2 things to them: Racing & head injuries (a helmet-less head on pipe hurts).

Steve, I have one or two things to add to this thread, on a more general level.

First, list every single part you have in that car and prices (or replacement value, in your case :) ). Include every nickel & dime, any labor (even the 3rd grade electrician), and supplies used. Included the price of the car. There is your starting figure. That begins to get you (well, the average guy) in the ballpark for correct replacement value.

I track all mine in an access database. I know almost every nickel I have spent on my 77 since I got it in August 2005. Used parts, new parts, brake clean, everything – or at least 99% of it. Most guys would be very surprised how much the little stuff adds to the total cost. Gaskets, bolts (them stainless bolts ain’t cheap), rattle cans, cleaner, etc. That new intake isn’t $200, it is $200, plus $15 for gaskets, $20 stainless bolts, $6 carb gasket, $25 for reconfigured fuel line, etc. I track both cars (67 & 77), along with parts I’ve bought with no decided use yet. But this can easily be done in Excel or even on paper. It also helps me keep my documentation in order in case I ever need to produce receipts (warranties, etc).

Next, you might want to collect a list of ‘comparables’ – similar cars to your for comparison. EBay auctions, Barrett Jackson results, etc. You do not have a normal 68 Camaro. You have a multi-media outlet superstar car (you are almost Howell-like) that is a perfect PT example. And if nice PT style cars go for $100k at BJA, well, yours is worth at least that much on paper. Remember the previous comment about appraisers who don’t ‘get it’. Comparables can at least help them almost ‘get it’.

I know I will be changing the agreed value (Hagerty) on my 77 from 10k to 20k in the next few months. I might need some added info. I’ve collected info on a number of 77Z28 sales over the past year. One just went at Meachum for over $20k. While my car is no superstar at all, it is still worth more then an ‘average; Camaro. Put it this way: my car to a regular mid-2nd gen is what your car is to a regular PT car. It is rarer and more valuable. I just have one less zero on the price.

Also, hide this list from the wives. :)

[mazspeed]

You have a pm Steve

[Jay Hilliard]

I have Grundy and have been pleased so far. I increased the value last year and I just wrote why I was wanting the increase and it was approved. I have a roll bar in my car and Grundy didnt care.

Their biggie was do not drive to work and keep it in a locked garage.

Good luck with your hunt. I would insure it for at least $100k.

[DRJDVM's '69]

I have Grundy and have been happy with them. I started the insurance as soon as the car was driveable but far from complete. The car had no interior except for a driver seat, no dash and a roll bar and they had no problem insuring it. ALot of other places said "no" until it was all done and then they would consider it. I wanted to make sure that it was covered during the time I was "test driving it" and the car was far enough along that someone might be interested in stealing it out of my garage.

As the car has progressed I have increased the agreed value almost every year and its never been even questioned. I have never had the car appraised, I just come up with a value and they change my rate. I'm sure that if I have to make a large claim, they may want me to justify the value through receipts or comparisons to other cars out there etc, but I never got the feeling that they are going to screw me. My policy is agreed value.

The restrictions are as you got quoted.... 3k miles, only "pleasure" driving (i.e not a commuter car etc).

I was really worried about using insurance through some of these "no name" companies that are now offering classic car insurance. They may offer great rates but when it come time to make a claim, I want an insurance company that I know is still going to be there to help me. I.m willing to pay alittle more for a company that is well known and has a reputuation in the market rather than some small unheard of company that may come and go in the blink of an eye.

I'd stick with Grundy, Heagerty or Parrush Heacock.

[Paladin]

I've been planning on doing a story on insurance. Sort of like the one on did about getting ripped off buying a car online.

I didn't worry too much about the insurance for the last year for two reasons. First is that the car has been in fully insured shops and I haven't driven it yet. Now that drive time is around the corner I want to get it sorted out.

So Haggerty or Grundy? Someone else? If anything this is good info for my story

I will dig up the policy but you could be corrent about the "stated value" deal.
__________________

You guys should see what insurance is in Canada! In Ontario there are only two major insurance companies willing to touch classic cars with an 'appraised value' in excess of $100,000. However, only one was willing to insure me because my mustang is supercharged. The restrictions are unbelievable. The car must be kept in a locked garage when not in use (preferably with an alarm), the car must have a boomerang tracking device (our equivalent of Lo-jack), it can only be used for pleasure use and 'automotive events' (parades, car shows). For $125,000 coverage is $2,300 per year and the car must be insured all year ( no refund for storing it in winter.) That worked out to $1/mile for how much I drove it in 2006!

[ProdigyCustoms]

Since we race all our cars, the ability to race, without hiding it or worrying about them finding out, was very important. Also seeing how parish paid a claim, I am sold.

As for the car sitting in fully insured shops with no insurance. Many shop policies only cover insured cars. Basically, if the owner doesn't care, why should they policy.

A local shop that does stereo stuff had a car that was sitting outside firebombed. They think is was a random gang initiation thing. Car is not covered by the shops insurance because it was not insured by the owner.

My insurance agent is a expert on the subject, and a ProTouring enthusiast. In fact his car is coming in next.

I am sure he would be happy to help you from the shop liability perspective as that should be an important part of the policy.

[BLT2DRIVE]

Ther are a couple of the hot rod appraisal guys right there in OC. Grundys a good deal too. Stated value, no mileage caps, way resonable to what you pay for a new daily driver in Cali...