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View Full Version : Bummer for GM RWD...Chicago Tribune article


clill
04-10-2007, 03:06 PM
GM puts brake on rear-drive vehicles


Published April 10, 2007


General Motors has put a hold on future rear-wheel-drive vehicles.

"We've pushed the pause button. It's no longer full speed ahead," Vice Chairman Bob Lutz revealed in an interview.

Two of the most important RWD cars in the works are the Chevy Camaro sports coupe due back late in 2008 and the full-size, RWD replacement for the Chevy Impala sedan for 2009. Both are expected to be huge sellers and contribute major profits to a GM till burdened with IOUs the last few years.

"It's too late to stop Camaro, but anything after that is questionable or on the bubble," said Lutz, noting that also means Camaro derivatives -- along with a big Impala sedan, "if we call it Impala."

The RWD cars, you see, would be larger and heavier than front-wheel-drive cars or are high-performance models.

So it comes down to the matter of fuel economy. Or as Lutz says: "We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from" RWD cars.

That 30 percent bogey arises from a proposal by the Bush administration to raise corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards by 4 percent a year so cars would have to average 34 m.p.g. by 2017, up from 27.5 m.p.g. today. On top of that, the Supreme Court ruled last week that the Environmental Protection Agency can regulate carbon dioxide expelled by cars, a gas that contributes to global warming. The EPA doesn't do so now.

"We'll decide on our rear-drive cars when the government decides on CO(-2) levels and CAFE regulations," Lutz said, adding that limiting CO(-2) would increase mileage, too.

"Carbon dioxide is a natural byproduct of burning gas and directly proportional to the amount of fuel burned. If we legislate CO(-2) from cars, why not legislate we take one less breath per minute since humans release capricious amounts of CO(-2) each time they exhale?" offered a testy Lutz.

Lutz also points out that higher mileage will come at a price, with the proposal to raise CAFE certain to increase costs by as much as $5,000, which will be added to a car's sticker, an amount most consumers won't be willing to pay. There are no hard numbers for how much CAFE compliance adds to the sticker now.

"Rather than buy new, people would hang onto their old cars. We could eat the $5,000, but that would put us out of business."

Besides, those who see cars as more than just an appliance are eager for the new RWD offerings.

Among other cars affected are a high-performance midsize Pontiac, a replacement for the full-size Buick Lucerne sedan, a compact smaller than the current CTS at Cadillac and possible 300-horsepower versions of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters.

"This is very disappointing," noted Erich Merkle, director of forecasting for IRN Inc., in Grand Rapids, Mich. Most of the cars coming are necessary to GM's turnaround as showroom magnets.

"What the public buys makes CAFE work, not what the industry builds," Merkle added. "To improve mileage you change demand, not supply, by raising gas prices through taxes. But no politician is going to do that so they throw the responsibility on the back of the industry."

Lutz also objects to the talk that carmakers can easily raise mileage with a very low investment.

"Academics assure us that for $200 we can get 30 percent better mileage. If anyone can figure out how to do that for $200 -- or even for $1,000 -- I want them in my office today. Show me how to do it and we'll adopt it," he said. "If I could increase mileage by 30 percent for $200, why wouldn't I? What's my motivation not to when a gas-electric hybrid gets 27 percent better mileage and I hope someday to get the cost down to $9,000?"

Others insist that carmakers simply have to sell more small cars, such as the trio of 1-liter concepts that promise 40 m.p.g.-plus that GM unveiled at the New York Auto Show.

"Small-car mileage only counts toward CAFE if you build them here, and you can't build small cars here at a profit," Lutz said, explaining that foreign-made cars would count toward the automaker's import fleet, and its domestic fleet is where GM needs help.

Steve68
04-10-2007, 03:47 PM
:censored: Let's hear it for our GOV! where's are flag waving smilie???

c.schulz
04-10-2007, 06:24 PM
:censored: Let's hear it for our GOV! where's are flag waving smilie???

Ill second that the jackass'


Chris

LateNight72
04-10-2007, 06:29 PM
Well, It looks like our government is doing a fine damn job of killing GM.. :censored: :thmbsdwn: :mad:

hectore3
04-10-2007, 06:44 PM
They are going to have to trade away displacement and power for fuel economy. Maybe a 4.0 liter LSx style engine. For an "SS" power statement go with a 335i BMW style small turbo. Problem solved :D

XcYZ
04-10-2007, 07:00 PM
CAFE. Thank you Congress. What would we do without you. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ironworks
04-10-2007, 10:09 PM
We just got a 4.4 liter engine from a caddy that puts out like 450 hp from a little north star. I wonder what kinda mileage it gets.

Rodger

ProTouring442
04-11-2007, 04:38 AM
They are going to have to trade away displacement and power for fuel economy. Maybe a 4.0 liter LSx style engine. For an "SS" power statement go with a 335i BMW style small turbo. Problem solved :D


The problem, here is cost, plus the fact that only a handful would be built. GM and Ford both need a way to build a high mileage vehicle.

I didn't know about the distinction between the domestic and import fleet. If all imported vehicles are "imports," I now see why the GTO and G* are built in Australia. GM's import fleet has room for highperformance, lower mileage vehicles.

I also wonder how Toyota manages this. How many high fuel mileage vehicles do they build in the US? They build their trucks here, I think, and I know they don't get very good mileage. I wonder if all import cars are called imports, even if they are built here?

Anyway, looks like our government is at it again. Don't they realize that high CAFE standards are what lead to the SUV craze?

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

trapin
04-11-2007, 05:28 AM
We'll just have to adapt. I don't like it that it hurts RWD development, but if it's going to hurt the company then forget it. We'll just have to go back to the drawing board. We'll figure out a way. ;)

61Bubbletop
04-11-2007, 05:48 AM
Lutz is exactly right, and the reason is that the Supreme court, in all of thier supposed "wisdom" ruled last week to allow the EPA to control the emissions of CO2 instead of the DOT, and have now labeled it as a pollutant, which had never been done before...The 4% mileage increase per year for 10 years is ridiculous...we have loads of technology now, as Lutz says, with Cam Phazers, SIDI etc etc...and meeting those requirements is not possible...not for us, and not for Toyota or any manufacturer..not without adding a TON of money in cost, or making the car lighter which usually means less safe and I still don't know how you could meet it. We have BAS hybrids and 2 Mode hybrids coming soon, but I don't believe even those will help us meet that target...

I truly believe that, CARB and the EPA want everyone driving around in a Smart car\Death Trap...Hell, ALL the automotive manufacturers are involved in litigation with, I believe, 8 states who want to adopt California emission and FE standards...which are supposed to be set by the Federal Gov...not individual states.

The powers that be are clueless, and the "Global Warming" witchhunt is reaching new levels of stupidity.

Steve Chryssos
04-11-2007, 06:10 AM
:woot: BRING BACK THE DUECE AND A QUARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:woot:
http://www.classicsandcustoms.com/list/images/X_1976_Buick_Electra_225_10162006034432_16227.jpg

(By the way Jeff, I'm driving your old pace car this week:unibrow: And I'm treating her juuuuust right. :yes:)

Streetking
04-11-2007, 06:12 AM
Our Gov hard at work again...:rolleyes:

SW

61Bubbletop
04-11-2007, 06:13 AM
:woot: BRING BACK THE DUECE AND A QUARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:woot:
http://www.classicsandcustoms.com/list/images/X_1976_Buick_Electra_225_10162006034432_16227.jpg

(By the way Jeff, I'm driving your old pace car this week:unibrow: And I'm treating her juuuuust right. :yes:)




You mean the weather is nice enough there? Wow..Awesome! I can only imagine how much JM has improved it...and I am with you and the 225, now THAT is a cruiser!

T Bell
04-11-2007, 06:52 AM
Here's a wild one: what if all the automakers basically went on strike and did not build any cars. I know it's near impossible but I wonder what would CAFE come up with then. This is what it is coming to because people are keeping there cars alot longer now. Maybe this will start an older car revolution where people fix up old cars and sell them instead of new cars.

LateNight72
04-11-2007, 09:47 AM
They are going to have to trade away displacement and power for fuel economy. Maybe a 4.0 liter LSx style engine. For an "SS" power statement go with a 335i BMW style small turbo. Problem solved :D


My Olds (Aurora) is a 4.0 V8. It only gets 28mpg highway (rated). I actually get about 31 doing 80mph..

-Todd

Mecom Racer
04-11-2007, 10:25 AM
If only there were a way to harness all the methane coming off of Al Gore's load of BS... :lolhit:

Musclerodz
04-11-2007, 10:39 AM
They are going to have to trade away displacement and power for fuel economy. Maybe a 4.0 liter LSx style engine. For an "SS" power statement go with a 335i BMW style small turbo. Problem solved :D
I doubt. you can get almost 30mpg now with the current ls2/6 spd combo. The GTO was on the bubble where the auto didn't meet mpg requirements and had a $1000 gas guzzler tax where the 6 spd didn't. It soon to be the mid-70's all over again.

Mike

Tony@AirRideTech
04-11-2007, 11:17 AM
Just remember guys.... when its time to Vote... Vote for Hillary! She is here to help all of us hot rodders, sportsmen, and has the cure for our ailing healthcare system. :faint:

Musclerodz
04-11-2007, 11:18 AM
I was just on Chevrolet's website and realized how pathetic its lineup really is. Basically it is crap, crap, crap, corvette, crap, crap, crap, truck (ugly), tahoe (cool)

Mike

T Bell
04-11-2007, 11:23 AM
Just remember guys.... when its time to Vote... Vote for Hillary! She is here to help all of us hot rodders, sportsmen, and has the cure for our ailing healthcare system. :faint:

Didn't you forget to put your sarcastic smiley on this one?

ArisESQ
04-11-2007, 11:50 AM
If only there were a way to harness all the methane coming off of Al Gore's load of BS... :lolhit:


why are you pointing all the blame at al gore and not at the bush administration. it was his administration that proposed these new rules and reguations afterall.

trapin
04-11-2007, 02:06 PM
Uh oh! :_paranoid

T Bell
04-12-2007, 09:58 AM
Uh oh! :_paranoid

:rofl: :willy: :rofl: :lol:

Mecom Racer
04-12-2007, 10:54 AM
why are you pointing all the blame at al gore and not at the bush administration. it was his administration that proposed these new rules and reguations afterall.

Because.

ArisESQ
04-12-2007, 02:34 PM
haha. ok, i don't wanna start a political debate either... regardless. whole thing sounds crappy.

Stuart Adams
04-12-2007, 02:49 PM
Until we fix the way the gov't works and special intrest groups and all the stupid spending of OUR money, it won't matter who is controlling the ship, IMO.

Please, not Hillary though!!

Steve1968LS2
04-12-2007, 03:00 PM
why are you pointing all the blame at al gore and not at the bush administration. it was his administration that proposed these new rules and reguations afterall.

Because Gore is pushing the "global warming" fraud based on bad science.

Nobody (left or right) is in the clear on this. They all cave and cater to the special interest groups.

Gordz32
04-12-2007, 03:20 PM
This sucks! I'm gonna start building a time machine to go back to the 60's. It's gonna be sweet!!:D

Steve68
04-13-2007, 08:15 PM
" Bad Science" I like that term, oh yea, R12 is destroying our ozone! and so the Space Shuttle, it's punched so many holes ozone I don't know why we haven't burned to death, :captain:

T Bell
04-14-2007, 06:29 PM
and the bad part is that it was never proven that R12 deleted the ozone. The same way global warming hasn't been proven. No WMDs. And the list goes on.

coolwelder62
04-14-2007, 09:02 PM
If CO2 is a pollutant then maybe the government should go after Coke and Pepsi two large users CO2 and band soda pop and save us all.

holschen
04-15-2007, 01:37 AM
To bad ur not intrested in this.
IŽd rather have an 300kw electrical engine than an petrol driven one.
And the problem realy is not lying at the goverment but at the carmakers.
This is something they have been able to put money in for a long time but choosen not to.
And whatever hapends to the climate,we are all running out of oil!!
Just think 2 rearweeldriven electrical engines at 200kw each:hail: :lateral: :cheers:

Derek69SS
04-15-2007, 05:47 AM
To bad ur not intrested in this.
IŽd rather have an 300kw electrical engine than an petrol driven one.
And the problem realy is not lying at the goverment but at the carmakers.
This is something they have been able to put money in for a long time but choosen not to.
And whatever hapends to the climate,we are all running out of oil!!
Just think 2 rearweeldriven electrical engines at 200kw each:hail: :lateral: :cheers:
Where exactly will that electricity come from? Most likely fossil fuels... and the added strain on the electrical grid would likely cause black-outs all over the U.S.

electric cars solve nothing

holschen
04-15-2007, 07:03 AM
Where exactly will that electricity come from? Most likely fossil fuels... and the added strain on the electrical grid would likely cause black-outs all over the U.S.

electric cars solve nothing

Actually nuclear sun and wind, water as an possibility.
But if u donŽt put ur money and brain into it.....
Well just put it this way,the carindustri would have never made it to the moon
If u just sit and do nothing,sooner or later u will die,why not spend the time trying to find a way to live longer:cool: :yes:

T Bell
04-15-2007, 04:53 PM
who opened up this can? I understand both sides but love the sound of a nicely tuned V8 rear drive car. This is why I drive my 3cyl car (you read right) to work to save money and cut out on the oil usage. That way I get to play around on the weekends.

ArisESQ
04-16-2007, 11:12 PM
i hope this isnt all my fault...

G-Body
04-17-2007, 05:20 AM
This is going to be huge for the aftermarket compamny's making parts avaiable for the already current and past rear wheel drive cars looks like they may be the only ones hot rodded so dont sell those mid 80's montes and cutlass and buicks quite yet may be the only rear drive car around not the mention those aweosme SS impalas in the 90's
Its just sad for GM it really is being a GM fan they have really struggled the last ten years all the why'll honda and toyota have flew past them in research and development. never thought id see the day! you couldnt still by a rwd car what a shame