4l60e/4l65e/4l80e differences

[projects]

I've decided to go automatic, how many different versions of these are there? 3?5?

please help:)
JOHN

[camcojb]

I've decided to go automatic, how many different versions of these are there? 3?5?

please help:)
JOHN


Well, the 4L60 and 4L65 are the same basic case, just the 65 has some upgrades to be stronger. I ordered a race 4L65E for my 05 GTO and it came in a 4L60E case which concerned me, but the case isn't different, it's the internals.

The 4L80E is like a TH400 with overdrive and electronic controls. Much heavier, stronger, and larger/longer. Your HP goal will determine which way to go.

Jody

[Steve Chryssos]

Electronic GM? There are two types that can be adapted to your hot rod at present: 60 series (4L60E and 4L65E) and 80 series (4L80E and 4L85E) The units that end in "5" are factory upgraded versions. Most of the upgrades can and are adapted to the older units. The 60 series is the electronic cousin of a 700R4. The 700 has a bad reputation but many problems are the result of bad TV cable adjustments. The 4L60E/4L65E uses a computer that allows you to fine tune shift and line pressure adjustment. That and a wide number of hard part upgrades make the 4L60E far superior to the 700. But the 4L60E/4L65E's reputation still suffers from association with the 700. Nonetheless, a 60 series trans that is built to handle in excess of 500-550HP can be pricey. If you have big power, start with a 4L80E. These are the electronic overdrive version of the legendary Turbo 400. 4L80E's are crazy reliable and quite a bit more sophisticated that the 4L60E. They can be built to reliably handle 1000HP or more. Some folks whine about overall size or parasitic loss, but the 4L80E can be made to fit with ease and any parasitic loss is well offset by the unit's reputation for reliability.

If you are going non-electronic GM, then the 200-4R is the hot ticket. It's reliable, easy to install, and affordable. Avoid the 700-R4

The big news in automatic transmissions is torque converters. We are working with Pro Torque to develop high efficiency lock-up torque converters that are designed specifically for well rounded hot rods such as pro-touring cars. We've asked the question: "What happens if my hot rod does more than just accelerate in a straight line?" Pro Torque is stepping up to answer that question.

[californiacuda]

Could you list weights of 4l60 and 4l80 with converter, I have a Twist Machine paddle shifter in my cuda with a 4l80e and it is very, very cool. Keep hands on wheel quick shifts, good control. Is there something I can do to the transmission (I'm not sure how to explain this) when down shifting to not be freewheeling. When I downshift, its not like a stick where the engine and transmission slow the car down?

[camcojb]

Could you list weights of 4l60 and 4l80 with converter, I have a Twist Machine paddle shifter in my cuda with a 4l80e and it is very, very cool. Keep hands on wheel quick shifts, good control. Is there something I can do to the transmission (I'm not sure how to explain this) when down shifting to not be freewheeling. When I downshift, its not like a stick where the engine and transmission slow the car down?


Steve at Twist Machine can hook you up with a shop that can make your trans do what you're asking. It is not a software or tuning deal, there are mods to the trans required.

Cool thing is it would be an awesome way to go on the road course, but it is not a real cheap mod.

Jody

[Steve Chryssos]

Cuda,
Awesome! I think you were one of our first customers a few years back. Thank you so much for having faith in our idea. There are a couple of things you can do regarding engine braking and more products in the works.
In the Present:
1) Drop your floor shifter down into 3rd gear to take advantage of the overrun clutches.
2) You can also try a little more rear brake bias in lieu of engine braking. That's what I do.
3) Install a tighter converter. I have found that pro-touring cars prefer 500rpm to 1000rpm less stall speed than the typical street/strip recommendation. If the engine seems like it's dropping to an idle when you lift off the throttle at low speeds, your converter is too loose.

The near future:
1) Bowler has been performing reliability tests on modified valve bodies for 4L60E transmissions to enhance engine braking. You can here it in action here (http://www.pro-touring.com/events/pigeon_forge_2006/air-ride-2nd-gen-camaro-medium.wmv) Not sure if they will sell similar modified valve bodies for 80's.
2) Our 2007 SEMA car, being built by Jason Huber at G-Force Design will have what we call a "6/8 Manumatic" It consists of the following:
-4L80E
-Gear Vendors Gear Splitter
-Bowler Electronics
-Twist Paddle Shifter.
This is the ultimate setup. You are most of the way there so you should strongly consider this option. The Bowler Electronics allow you to perform both gear changes and gear splits from our paddle shifter. Put the floor shifter in 3rd gear and you get a six speed with engine braking. Put the floor shifter in overdrive and you get an eight speed with no engine braking for highway use.
3) The 6/8 Manumatic is pricey, so we're working with Pro-Torque to develop small diameter (light weight), high efficiency, multi-disc lock up converters for pro-touring cars. 4L80E converters will have increased lock up clutch surface area such that you can program your computer to stay locked up in more circumstances than just low load highway cruising. When I show you a picture of the converter internals, you will think that you're looking at a manual's clutch. No accident there.
We'll be testing a 9.5" multi disc converter with 2400 rpm stall speed in the coming months. Just like a manual. a locked up converter provides direct drive. When you lift, you will have engine braking. The computer will unlock the converter based on wheel speed. That's the plan. Price for the custom matched, custom built 4L80E converter will be $995.

[Steve Chryssos]

Steve at Twist Machine can hook you up with a shop that can make your trans do what you're asking. It is not a software or tuning deal, there are mods to the trans required.

Cool thing is it would be an awesome way to go on the road course, but it is not a real cheap mod.

Jody

I don't think the valve body mod is terribly expensive. The bigger question is whether or not it can be done to 4L80E's or just 60's

[Steve Chryssos]

As for the weight issue, there ae a couple of good threads on SyTy.net--a site where all wheel drive turbo maniacs tend to drive over their transmissions. The difference wbetween the smaller transmissions and the 4L80E s like 70 lbs. And that 70lbs is located at the very bottom center of the car, so weight should not be a consideration

Here's one thread. There is another with a photo comparison that I can't locate right now. I'll keep looking.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31658&page=1&pp=15

[camcojb]

I don't think the valve body mod is terribly expensive. The bigger question is whether or not it can be done to 4L80E's or just 60's


I thought it was more than a simple valve body swap. You threw some numbers at me before for one, and it was not what I'd call a cheap mod. I wanted to do it to a 4L80E so maybe we didn't communicate well! :yes:

[Steve Chryssos]

I thought it was more than a simple valve body swap. You threw some numbers at me before for one, and it was not what I'd call a cheap mod. I wanted to do it to a 4L80E so maybe we didn't communicate well! :yes:

That's how it goes on the cutting edge :rofl: I have a big pow wow with Mark Bowler tonight. I will confirm.

[californiacuda]

Steve, Twist Machine,

Thank you so much for your detailed and educated response. I'm building a Keith Black 572, aluminum block, twin plug, twin turbo engine with hp in the 1500+ range. Maybe I can give you a call and pick your large brain for some ideas on how to control it. Thanks.

[Steve Chryssos]

Dude! 1500HP is a lot of beans! Call or email. I have everything you need.
/S