Need airbag expertise

[blazer_man]

I am going to use airbags for the first time on my blazer. The biggest question I have is how to determine the starting point for placing the 'bags. I am using 2600# bags both F&R. What height is recommended for installation (i.e. compressed/relaxed/partially inflated). What is the impact on ride/handling by installing them behind the rear end vs on top of the rear end. Any feedback would be much appreciated.

[novanutcase]

Call AirRide Technologies! They can supply you with whatever you need!!:thumbsup:

[prostreetamx]

Depending or your suspension type, where you put the bags will affect the travel and load capacity of the rear of your vehicle. The closer you put them to the suspension pivot point, the more travel you will have, but less load capacity. They will hold up more weight if placed farther away from the suspension pivot point at the cost of some overall travel.

[TravisB]

all airbags have an installed hieght....what brand are your bags?

[marolf101x]

If you are using Firestone bags you can check our site here:
http://ridetech.com/productinfo/dimensions.asp

Scroll down to "Air System Components" and you will see a list of recommended installed heights for the airsprings we sell.

-Britt-

[blazer_man]

I got the bags from aim a while ago, I don't know what the brand is. I asked them about install details but they are more concerned with laying on the rocker panels than actual ride and handling. From what they are telling me they are supposed to go in at the "relaxed" height. Does that sound right? I am going to mount them behind the rear end with the bottom of bag approximately even with the bottom of the housing. I will definitely be getting with the ART guys later in the project for parts and advice, they come recommended from everyone I talk to (now). Any comments would still be appreciated. Thanks again for the responses, I love the great feedback on this forum!

[kennyd]

AIM is concerned about mini trucks layin flat on the ground , for best ride and drive follow the recomendation of air ride tech . installed height is everything , go to air ride's website or get a catalog and it will have installed height for each bag .

[Tony@AirRideTech]

I am not sure which airsprings you got from them and I am not even sure of the specs on the airsprings that they use. You do need to get that info from them and you need to make sure that your installed ride height is set up properly because if you dont.... all you will have is a truck that goes up and down and who knows how well it will perform. The airsprings that I would run on that paticular application would be a 6957 in the front and an F9000 tapered sleeve in the rear. I would set the rear up in a 1:1 ratio with a four bar.

[wiedemab]

I am using the F9000 bags on the rear of '52 Chevy Pickup - Granted it's not on the road yet, but this may be helpful. I just used ART's dimension from their website

http://ridetech.com/productinfo/dimensions.asp

and made my bracketry so that at ride height the bag was at it's installed height. I think for the F9000 its like 9" or 9.5" The only other things that I checked was that the shocks limited overextension of the bags in suspension droop and that when deflated the bags didn't compress below their minimun dimension (4.5" for the F9000)

Yes, I know the shocks look to be at a horrific angle in the pic, but it's aired down - they aren't that bad at ride height.

http://wiedos.com/52_Chevy/52%20Chevy%20Gallery/images/air_ride10.jpg

[blazer_man]

Thanks for the responses guys. After further questioning everyone on the planet, it sounds like when it comes to these systems it is really up to personal preference with respect to ride stiffness and suspension travel. The recommended installed height ranges from 5" to about 7" depending on who I ask (I even asked the local minitruck/stereo/window tint/espresso emporium guy:lol: ). What I have decided to do is basically the same thing I would do with coil overs and that is to build some mechanical adjustability into my mounting system that will accomplish the range of installed heights at my desired ride height.
A question for Tony; The bags you say you would use are lighter than the ones I have. What is the impact going to be of using the 2600# bags out back vs the 1500# units you say you would use? The front bags you said you would use are close the ones I have (2400# vs 2600#).Oh yeah, forgive my ignorance but 1:1 ratio with a 4 bar??
Some particulars on my truck: 70 blazer, mustang II front susp/tubular a arms, standard small block, 4 link/wishbone rear, sway bars F&R, tube frame front & rear.

[darren@ridetech]

Those 2600lb double convoluted bags have a fairly progressive spring rate and not much travel. The Taped sleeve bag will offer a better ride and more travel.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

AirSpring 101

well... first thing is first... at this time we use only Firestone airsprings and there is really no such thing as a 2400 or 2600# bag. That was terminology that was cultivated by the mini truck scene to depict a difference between two of the most commonly used airsprings ( Firestone 224C and Firestone 255 C bellows. ) Oddly enough, their alias names really have nothing to do with any load carrying capacities. For example lets refer to a commonly used 255c. The F6957.... the rated capacity of this spring is 2050lbs of vertical static load @100 psi working pressure. Now if we take an F6873 ( Commonly referred to as 2600 ) will actually take 3150lb of vertical static load @ 100 working psi. Now... Firestone actually makes in the neighborhood of 40 to 50 different types of 255c and 224 c type springs. Aesthetically, you can not tell the difference between them except with the occasional bolt pattern difference. The difference that you need to be acutely aware of will be in the spring rate differences between them. See... when Firestone makes an airspring it is made up of layers of rubber with interwoven sandwiched layers of fabric. They can actually change the intersection points of the interwoven fabric and that effectively changes the spring rate.


You will notice in the aftermarket that there are several different shapes of airsprings that are used. You will more commonly see the double convoluted airsprings and you will also see the widely used tapered or rolling sleeve type springs. These spring are greatly different from each other in both spring rate and rate of progression. A double convoluted airspring ( looks like two stacked doughnuts ) will generally have a short stroke 4-6" total... and it will have a more progressive spring rate. Because it is shorter in height, its short stroke and its progressive spring rate... it is ideally suited to be in an independent front or independent rear end where we have a motion ratio that we need to overcome. A motion ratio is a mechanical advanatage that the geometry of the suspension has over the effected spring. For example... most Mustang II suspension have a roughly 1.6 : 1 ratio. In other words you will see 1.6" of travel at the wheel for every 1" the spring moves.

Now lets take a look at most rear aftermarket applications. Most rear suspensions that are being built these days for use with airsprings are generally some type of link suspension that holds the axle at location while eliminating the leaf springs. In most of these cases you will see where builders are running a tapered sleeve or rolling lobe spring directly attached to the axle itself. By placing them on the axle you are eliminating any kind of motion ratio and working the springs in a 1:1 configuration. In these cases the Rolling lobe and tapered sleeves are better suited. They have a longer stroke and a much more linear spring rate. this makes the vehicles ride quality better, and give more stroke while increasing the performance and making it more tune-able.

If you have made it this far.... you need a beer to let the brain cells cool down and soak up this worthless jargon.....

[1971novaSS]

If you have made it this far.... you need a beer to let the brain cells cool down and soak up this worthless jargon.....

Haha, made it. Damn right! time for the bar. lol. Oh and thanks for the info. I will be putting air ride in on the nova. Very helpfull. :cheers:

[blazer_man]

Thanks for the info Tony! Nice to hear from someone who really knows the product:bow: . I managed to score the bags you recommended from a local guy who had them in stock. He is also going to put the bags I got from brand X on the shelf and unload them for me. I appreciate you taking the time to help me out, I was about to go back to coil overs, but I really want to try this out! I will be in touch when I get closer to needing lines, valves, etc. Thanks for everyone who chimed in, I will have pics in project updates when I get done with the fab work.