Daily Driver Roll Cages?

[philofab]

Any daily drivers here have roll cages? I'd like to put a cage in my car but I dont really want to give up my back seats. Without the bracing behind the front seats I don't think the cage does much. Anyone have pics of their cages? Do you like your cage or is it a pain in the arse? I'd like to see falcons or novas as they're closest to my rambler.

[GM Muscle]

you could put swing out bars on the sides and make a removeable cross brace behind the seats.. it probably wouldnt be legal but i would deam it safer than having no cage at all.. ill see if i can find some pics..

[sinned]

Remember that getting into an accident with a roll cage on a street car will in all likelihood lead to substantial injuries if not death. You are surrounded on 3 sides by steel tubing within 8" of your unprotected head and impacting any one of those tubes will take a 30MPH fender-bender into a major injury accident.

[GM Muscle]

good points... but theres always padding and such for roll cages..

[sinned]

Ahh, but hitting your head against a halo tube even with padding at a slow speed impact (less than 35MPH) will still tear it wide open. I can't even imagine what it would do at 70MPH.

Grab a peice of 1.75 and wrap it with cage padding, then swing a 10 lbs sledge at it (about the weight of your head) at a moderate pace, listen for the tell-tale ring of metal on metal.

My new job has be working on lots heavy equipment in really cramped quarters, I have hit my head more than once against the I beams or 1/2" plate we use...it hurts A LOT. Nothing feels quite like banging your noggin against thick solid steel, just something to think about.

Another point, if you have passengers and one of them bangs their head and causes serious injury...you insurance company is going to tell you you are on your own. They won't cover injury caused by a roll cage.

[GM Muscle]

Ahh, but hitting your head against a halo tube even with padding at a slow speed impact (less than 35MPH) will still tear it wide open. I can't even imagine what it would do at 70MPH.

Grab a peice of 1.75 and wrap it with cage padding, then swing a 10 lbs sledge at it (about the weight of your head) at a moderate pace, listen for the tell-tale ring of metal on metal.


haha.. well just wear a helment around town:thumbsup:

[philofab]

Sinned is right on how effective roll bar padding is... it's mostly there to protect you while getting in and out of the car. I've never had padding on any of the roll cages in my trucks. The b pillar will do just as much damage as a piece of tube will though (got a nice bump from it at 5 mph in my old toyota rock crawler once). If my car has a cage it will also have race seats and five points but it's unlikely I'll drive around with a hans device, race suit, and helmet unless I plan on having the cops chase me at high speed :). I'd still like to have a cage in my car... it can't be that safe driving a 600hp car without one. It will be safer at the track though... be it silver state, drag racing, or possibly sneaking on the track at willow spings between races.

[customcam]

Good topic
Whats the solution? New design or dont have a roll cage?
it can't be that safe driving a 600hp car without one. Iv seen many cars with over 600 without a cage.
Some people say it will save you if you get tboned God forbid

[sinned]

The general rule is don't run a cage if can't wear a helmet. Since it is illegal to wear a helmet on the street you shouldn't drive a car on the street with a cage. If you get T-boned with a cage I guarantee severe head trauma and probable death. There is no way to avoid head to cage contact in that type of collision.

If you were going to insist on running a cage in a street car than build it away from the driver; this throwing the rule books out the window and positioning tubes as far away from the driver as possible. Keep the main hoop at least 8” back from the driver and make sure the halo is as tight as humanly possibly to the roof. Position the driver seat to sit low and for Gods sake always wear a full 5-point harness when driving.

[race-rodz]

i had a daily driver with a full cage for a while....a 240Z to be exact. everything about it sucked a$$.

climbing into the car sucked, wackin your head sucked, the door bar violating your a$$...or atleast smackin your tailbone sucked....you get the idea.


i guess the cage did stiffen the car up a whole bunch, and it did look really kewl.....but it didnt see enough track time to consider it a "worthy" upgrade.

[race-rodz]

to answer the question..... NO i wouldnt have another "driver" with a cage.

[71OLDS]

Good topic and something I've been struggling over myself. Add to the discussion that I have a convertible. Are we only talking about a full cage vs a 6 pt roll bar w/removable door bars?

With a full cage the driver does have bars above, infront, behind etc, but for a 6 pt roll bar w/the door bars removed for street driving, and a the 5 pt harness on, I can't see how there would be anymore risk of injury/death for the front seat passengers in a convertible. Kind of a catch 22 here. If I have no roll bar of any kind and an accident causes a rollover, I'll probably be pancaked...w/it I may live but if my head hits the main hoop in the rollover I could die due to head injury....maybe the 5 pt harness would prevent my head from hitting?

Then I have the backseat issue. So the crossbar behind the seat can't be removable (to pass tech) and then there's the rear down bars. So if I have rear seat passengers, assuming they want to deal with climbing under or over the bars to get in (or put the conv top down and "Duke Boy" it in over the side), then they have a bar infront of them, to the side, and one above. What about a 5pt harness for the riders in the back seat? I guess that and padding are my only options. For those who forgo the rollbar running 12s or faster at the track, what do you do? W/my convertible I can't go faster then 13.49...

[71Nova]

I run a 6 point in my Nova. I originally wanted removable door bars and removable rear cross bar but the fabricator recomended that I not use pin in bars. He said in a side colision on the street the pins could snap and the swinging side bar could rip you in half. Also he said the car is noticably stiffer with a welded in cross bar. I feel safe on the street with my car. 5 point harness, no halo bar, racing seats with a tall head rest. One other point that is important to bring up is make sure your harness, and seats are anchored to the floor corectly.

[DocDave]

Wow. Great Topic. I too was going to have a cage put it my street car. Removable Sides and Cross Bar. I realize this probably will not meet NHRA standards as a valid cage but it will get me on the local track (me hopes). The bars would be removed for street driving and the cage will be as close to the pillars and ceiling as possible. The goal here is to stiffen the car up a little and provide some type of rollover protection at the track.

This post does have me re-thinking the entire thing though. I am only going to have 500 - 600 HP. Production cars are putting up numbers close to this and there is no cages there. Hmmmmm. :(

[71Nova]

DocDave I am really happy that I got mine. I noticed the increase in stiffness the first time I went over rail road tracks. Felt much more solid and smoother. Just make sure that the guy that puts it in knows what he is doing. The chassis fabricator that I went to told me stories about how some shops in so Cal have made the roll cages out of exhaust tubing to rip off the buyer.

[ProTour69GTO]

what about Joe Rogans Cuda it has something in it would something like that be safe

[andrewmp6]

you can i have and do right now the bars could hurt or kill you in a wreck but how many people die a year in a normal car at 35mph. i rather die in a 68 mustang then a prius.

[novanutcase]

I also wrangled with the idea of putting a roll cage in my car. I heard the many pros and cons of doing this but I finally decided to do it. What I did was to incorporate the bars into the actual structure of the car so that it would afford me the added strength and stiffness I was looking for without making the bars any more of a danger than stock. Of course there are some compromises as you can't really incorporate the main hoop into the structure but the A and C pillars can be!

John

[DRJDVM's '69]

Novanutcase
Do you have any pix of the rollcage you are integrating into the body of the car ??

I really want a cage in my car and was considering doing something similar to kind of "hide" the cage and keep it away from flying arms/heads in the event of an accideint

[70TWO NOVA]

I have a 6-point roll bar in my 72 nova daily driver and my brother has a cage in his 72 nova daily driver as well. Personally I dont really use my back seat and feel much better driving around town knowing there is some protection around me. As for my bro, his cage makes it a little harder to get into his car, but he feals the same way as i do about sacrificing some comfort for safety.
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=CCCCCC&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/371000-371999/371580_56_full.jpg

[Steve Chryssos]

I feel safer with my cage, eliminated the back seat, sank the driver's seat a little, and I strongly believe that it is one of the most important handling improvements available. A stiff chassis will free the suspension up to do its job better. Last winter, I cut the passenger side door bar out.

Having been in a big wreck, I can tell you that even the factory dash pad can kill you a lot.

[SpeedyV10]

I just ordered a 6 point for my Z28 convert. I am interested to see what it is like inside the car with the forward bars. I'm contemplating cutting off the forward bars and just running it as a 4 point.

[Rick Dorion]

I wanted good belts, side protection (after my wife witnessed a fatality) and chassis improvements.

[TonyG]

I am wanting to put harnesses in my car, but don't want a rollbar since my daughter is 3(going on 23) and she loves to ride with my wife and I. So, I have somewhat designed a "hoop system" to go behind the front seats to allow harnesses but not have a full rollbar or crossbar. It would definately have to be padded someway..... Just something that popped in my head as an idea if someone thinking the same way as me.

[andrewmp6]

you can have a simple rollbar/4 point and still use the back seat depending its design.or rig up a harness bar basicly goes across the top of the front seats to mount the top part of your harness to.

[tyoneal]

Hello:

I'm going to take the "Pro" side of this argument and see if I can argue "FOR" a Roll bar of some kind.

If you set the roll bar back 8 inches, put side bars in that were "shaped", more like the seat so you could get in and out easily, then ran a front hoop from the right front door hinges to the left hinges to form a cage.

Then finally, connected the two by a "Center" bar (Similar to a "T" top) wouldn't that give you a safer, more ridged car, and you could get in and out of it easier?

Hopefully this would minimize a head injury. The "T-top", Trans Ams of the 70's basically had this same arrangement and I don't remember hearing about head injuries relating to this design.

If you are a big person your head is close to the headliner. If you feel the roof through the headliner, there are still metal reinforcements protruding out from the top sheet metal for seat belt hook ups, dome light ect. and I haven't hear those inflict head injuries.

Would the bar across the top being Flat and padded help the situation?

The Porsche 911 Targa's had this or a similar arrangement and it also seemed ok. The Fiat X-19's were the same way.

Remember ALL these cars had at most a 3-Point Seat Belt at best and were safe for ALL sized drivers on the street without a helmut.

The Fooze 69 Camaro also has a 4 point. If they were truly dangerous I'd be shocked if they would put them in their cars as well. They all have a lot of money to lose if these items were considered "Negligent", by the insurance companies.

I look for to your replies.

Best Regards,

Ty

[tyoneal]

Another question:

What is the correct height to run the cross bar where the harnesses are attached? (Based on the Shoulder height of the drivers)

Thanks,

Ty

[tyoneal]

Can anyone take a stab at these questions?

TY

[Steve Chryssos]

Correct placement for the shoulder harness bar is just below shoulder height. The "T-top" bar is an unnecessary addition to the main hoop and halo, in my opinion. A bit reduntant unless it is placed at a diagonal. The cage decision is very subjective. I can see both sides of the argument. If you favor a cage, but have concerns, the best route is to find a fabricator who will patiently custom bend each bar for maximum driver/passenger clearance and eliminate the back seat. Some money can be saved by starting with an off-the-shelf kit and then add/remove/modify bars on an individual basis.

-Don't place the A-Pillar bars behind the dash--go through the top of the dash.
-Don't put a knee bar in a street car. If a tie bar for the A-pillar bars is a must, put it far under the dash near the firewall/cowl.
-Don't have the cage built until any and all interior components are present during mock-up. (Seats, belts, AC, door panels, mirror, etc.) If you will be doing underhood down bars, then all interference components must be present as well (i.e. hood hinges, wheelhouses, master cylinder/booster, etc.)
-Don't forget to bring a list of other small fabrication tasks such as a battery mount, fuel cell mount or other simple brackets.
-Don't forget to leave clearance to facilitate working on the interior. That cage will be in the way. For example, I have door sill bars that connect the A-pillar bars to the main hoop. The door sill bars interfere with seat hardware installation and removal. If the bars were just 1/2" higher, I wouldn't have this problem. Since I take my car apart every winter, I must fight this little boo boo twice per year. The ensuing tantrum is fun to watch.

[novanutcase]

The ensuing tantrum is fun to watch.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

John

[tyoneal]

Correct placement for the shoulder harness bar is just below shoulder height. The "T-top" bar is an unnecessary addition to the main hoop and halo, in my opinion. A bit reduntant unless it is placed at a diagonal. The cage decision is very subjective. I can see both sides of the argument. If you favor a cage, but have concerns, the best route is to find a fabricator who will patiently custom bend each bar for maximum driver/passenger clearance and eliminate the back seat. Some money can be saved by starting with an off-the-shelf kit and then add/remove/modify bars on an individual basis.

-Don't place the A-Pillar bars behind the dash--go through the top of the dash.
-Don't put a knee bar in a street car. If a tie bar for the A-pillar bars is a must, put it far under the dash near the firewall/cowl.
-Don't have the cage built until any and all interior components are present during mock-up. (Seats, belts, AC, door panels, mirror, etc.) If you will be doing underhood down bars, then all interference components must be present as well (i.e. hood hinges, wheelhouses, master cylinder/booster, etc.)
-Don't forget to bring a list of other small fabrication tasks such as a battery mount, fuel cell mount or other simple brackets.
-Don't forget to leave clearance to facilitate working on the interior. That cage will be in the way. For example, I have door sill bars that connect the A-pillar bars to the main hoop. The door sill bars interfere with seat hardware installation and removal. If the bars were just 1/2" higher, I wouldn't have this problem. Since I take my car apart every winter, I must fight this little boo boo twice per year. The ensuing tantrum is fun to watch.
==============================================
Steve, your insight is much appreciated.

I try to plan in advance as much as possible and these tips will give me a great place to start.

Thanks again.

Ty

BTW: I'll have a couple of replacement MO's in the mail to you before to long.

[My68myway]

I just had a 12pt cage installed in my 68 camaro and i love it, the car feels totally different and rides way better. It is a bit of a pain getting in and out of the car and you pretty much have to be a gymnist to get in the back seat. But like another guys doing i had the shop that installed it keep the bars as close to the body as possible and im going to start molding them into the actual structure of the car in the coming weeks. with that, 5pt harneses and race seats im not to worried about hitting my head on the bars, theres nothing in the car to hit your head thats soft in the first place so i really dont see much of a difference if the bars are tight on the body

[monza]

Anyone used or looked at this padding?

http://www.apexperformance.net/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=1603&cid=32

or this

http://www.apexperformance.net/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=1347&cid=32

Thinking I'll install the top choice on FUel looking for opinions. Been going back and forth on which one. If no one has used it either maybe I'll just get a sample of each and decide.

[James OLC]

Dave,
I have been looking around for this myself and have pretty much decided on the BSCI Dual Durometer Padding (your first reference or their website is here (http://www.rollbarpadding.com/home.html)). It looks like it is an excellent option and it's SFI 45.1 approved. I am ordering a couple of peices of it on Monday. I can give you a shout when it arrives if you want. Let me know.

By the way, did you get your fire system sorted out? I'm biting the bullet and ordering an FE36 system. I can always replace the tank...

Cheers

[fesler]

Good topic here to cage or not to cage, we build cars both ways and I have to say I have been in and out of cars with cages for years and have never thought about getting hit. I guess with the cars we build its just not something that enters your mind and if it does than maybe its time for you to just buy a car with tons of air bags to be safe.

Build the car you want it, you dont plan on getting hit and cage or no cage in these old cars you are going to get hurt if you are hit fast enough. There is no way to protect yourself from this.

Key is not to get hit, pay attention and never let your gaurd down.

If you do cage the car it will not matter if you have padding or no padding, if you get hit its going to hurt. I have a car with over 800HP and its a daily driver with a huge cage in it no back seat and let me tell you its a pain to get in and out and we have the swing side bar. I personally dont like the way cages are built into these cars but there is really only one way to do it correct.

Good luck with your decission and keep us posted with picks

[monza]

If you do cage the car it will not matter if you have padding or no padding, if you get hit its going to hurt.



Not claiming to be an expert on the subject but have read a fair bit on the subject and that statement would go against what most experts claim. I'll agree with it'll hurt. If I was going to hit you in the head with a pipe I think you'd rather have it wrapped in a tech material designed to absorb impact....:rolleyes: High speed side impact we won't go there but a low speed wack on your roll bar can crack your skull, padding will hopefully prevent that.

[monza]

Dave,
I have been looking around for this myself and have pretty much decided on the BSCI Dual Durometer Padding (your first reference or their website is here (http://www.rollbarpadding.com/home.html)). It looks like it is an excellent option and it's SFI 45.1 approved. I am ordering a couple of peices of it on Monday. I can give you a shout when it arrives if you want. Let me know.

By the way, did you get your fire system sorted out? I'm biting the bullet and ordering an FE36 system. I can always replace the tank...

Cheers

Call me for sure when you get the padding. Well discuss the fire system then.
Thanks

[Orangechilly]

See I was thinking of putting some added protection in my Z28 with t-tops but I wanted to try and hide it and use as small tubing as I could, would it nothing be worth it to strengthen the top of the car? I wanted to do this because I would had kids in my car. Any thoughts?

[JamesJ]

Dave,
I have been looking around for this myself and have pretty much decided on the BSCI Dual Durometer Padding (your first reference or their website is here (http://www.rollbarpadding.com/home.html)). It looks like it is an excellent option and it's SFI 45.1 approved. I am ordering a couple of peices of it on Monday. I can give you a shout when it arrives if you want. Let me know.Cheers

Did you get the padding? What do you think?

[awesometool]

I say no back seat for mine. I looked at it today and with the dse tub/quad it could work fairly easy but the dse roll bar leaves me 2 1/2" for lower seat to lock in and the stock one I have is 5" big problem. I sure buckets or something could work. After reading this post the rear passenger " my two kids" head would be about 2" from the cage. Ya I probably will not get in a collision but they ever got injured and I knew prior I would never forgive myself (LOL more room for some subs). here is a picture of it.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4384/cagect9.jpg

[sacarguy]

I wanted good belts, side protection (after my wife witnessed a fatality) and chassis improvements.

that cage is gaurenteed sever injury if your ever t boned your heads going to slam that side bar

[awr68]

I'm not sure there is a correct answer here.
I am tring to build a street car that will feel at home on the track...so I installed a 4-point roll bar and harnesses. I guess I will have to add padding to the bars so my son is safe in the back seat. I don't really like the look of padding...but if I can make it safer for him then so be it!

[tyoneal]

To All:

I've retracted this post because of time constraints, and the complications associated with this subject.

Without really going into depth completely, and boring the hell out of everyone, at this time it is best to drop the arguments that were being made one way or the other.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Thanks for your understanding.

Ty

[gt1guy]

Couple things.

BSCI Dual Durometer Padding is the padding you want to get. It's the best out there.

There have been some very good points made on this subject so far. I'd like to make one more. A roll cage is only one part of a system. The other two parts are a quality seat and the harness. You really do need all three parts for the system to be safe for you, and safe as far as it doing it's job. With a crap seat and a lap belt, the cage will probably kill you if you get in a bad wreck. That doesn't help anyone. But, it's also not the cages fault. You didn't stay where your suppose to be, you went flying all around. That's where the QUALITY seat and Harness come in to play. If your held in place so you can't fly around, the cage is no longer a danger to you. The system is complete.

And any part of a cage that any part of your body might be able to come in contact with, needs to be padded.


Kevin

[sjakes]

Wow guys, great thread.

A bit of history about me....

Raced dirt circle track for the past 10 years or so.

New hobby, I bought a 68 from a friend that the sheetmetal is mostly restored and I was planning on turning it into a Trans Am Race Replica Car. So my dilema now after reading all these posts..... wow, now what should I do. Without a cage, my project is a bust!

These were my plans. I have a 10 pt. cage being installed, although my plans were to leave the back seat in and I wasn't going to have the cross bar installed simply for the safety of any rear passengers, so I guess subconciously I was already thinking of this discussion, just didn't realize it. In all the haste, didn't even consider my safety or my passengers safety in front.

I'm really stuck of what to do.

This would necessarily be a daily driver, primarily car shows and "roll ins" But even at that, there was never a though of any safety equipment with the exception of belts.

Like I said, its a great thread, just feels like someone pizzed in my oatmeal.

I'm stuck right now....... hmmmmm......

Any insight?

Shawn

Visit us at: www.geocities.com/sjrracing

[71dusterjon]

i installed a 4pt roll bar in my duster cuz i want my car to be a daily driver but also track worthy. Since i will be the only one in the car 95% of the time i took out rear seat. i'm putting in a 4pt harness and even though they are not recommend for the street i think they'll be safer over the original lap belts.

Just my opinion if there is a roll bar/cage in the car then there shouldn't be more than a driver and passenger seat. I dont have kids, but if i did i would stick them in a newer vehicle with airbags and other safety features until they were fully developed to ride in a caged car.

Jon

[monza]

Wow guys, great thread.

A bit of history about me....

Raced dirt circle track for the past 10 years or so.

New hobby, I bought a 68 from a friend that the sheetmetal is mostly restored and I was planning on turning it into a Trans Am Race Replica Car. So my dilema now after reading all these posts..... wow, now what should I do. Without a cage, my project is a bust!

These were my plans. I have a 10 pt. cage being installed, although my plans were to leave the back seat in and I wasn't going to have the cross bar installed simply for the safety of any rear passengers, so I guess subconciously I was already thinking of this discussion, just didn't realize it. In all the haste, didn't even consider my safety or my passengers safety in front.

I'm really stuck of what to do.

This would necessarily be a daily driver, primarily car shows and "roll ins" But even at that, there was never a though of any safety equipment with the exception of belts.

Like I said, its a great thread, just feels like someone pizzed in my oatmeal.

I'm stuck right now....... hmmmmm......

Any insight?

Shawn

Visit us at: www.geocities.com/sjrracing

removable rear cross bar? Welded in then cut and set up a bolt in system...

[syborg tt]

I can add a little input to this thread that people my find interesting.

I owned one of the 10 syclones that Marlboro gave away. These trucks were built with a Kevlar/Carbon Fiber removable Targa Roof section.

All ten of the trucks were built by ASC and they all had to be DOT Legal. What I found interesting is some of the things they did.

A-Pillar on the Cab (windshield area ) was filled with liquid Steel.

A-Pillar from the floor up was plated with ?? guage steel ( couldn't tell )

B-Billar was also plated and that same thickness plate. It ran all the way across the roof and tied the roof and two pillars together.

The center support similar to a T-top roof was also plated with the same thickness steel going to the windshield.

The area above the windshield all the way across the top was also filled with liquid steel.

Doors pillars were filled with Liquid steel & plated.

For a truck that had a good chunk of it's roof removed it was rock solid.

http://www.sportmachines.com/albums/91Sy2879/2879_004.jpg

So moving forward to my truck - Syborg

Dave (Compfab.com) suggested that we only do a 6 point cage for a street driven vehicle. Since I have no concern of passing tech the goal would be to stiffen the chassis and keep it from killing me in an accident.

The cage it welded to the floor above body mounts and also bolted to the chassis in 4 locations. It very easy to get in and out of this truck and in the event of a side impact the side-bar sits low enough that it should make contact with the seat and not my torso.

http://www.syborgtwinturbo.com/albums/Build/2006_03_10_020.jpg


http://www.syborgtwinturbo.com/albums/Build/2006_03_10_023.jpg

http://www.syborgtwinturbo.com/albums/Build/2006_03_10_027.jpg

[conekiller13]

My car will be driven on the street but primarily track day and maybe show if ever gets that nice........also a gaol of running silver state. So for Me I'm not following any given set of rules. I did follow SCCA's diameter/per vehicle weight rule so the bar is 1.75" .120 DOM. I'm doing basically a full cage tying into front and rear suspension for full chassis rigidity. No back seat so no worries. Inside the car the bars will be as close to body as possible running along A-pillars and through dash with front cross bar at fire wall. For the doors I was planning on something very similar to the Syclone above. That to Me seems to be the only way to get the benefits of a bar there while lower the PITA factor when getting in and out. My vehicle will have a braced race type seat (haven't decided tilt back or no tilt yet) but will be mounted as low as possible for head to bar clearance and have at least a 4 point harness. If You've noticed most Touring car race cars the drivers head just sticks up over the door. So I believe seat height is just as an importaint part of the cage discussion as anything.

Just orderd the tubing this week so I'll post some pics once We get going on that.

[badmatt]

dont midn the rust...

but heres a pic of how i layed mine out for 8.50 legal.. (converting to a 25.5)

this is an Sonoma, small truck but TONS of room

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/badmatt/100_1447.jpg

seriously dont mind the rust haha.

[HWYSTR455]

Another thing with a cage is if you do get in an accident on the street, they may not be able to get you out very easily.

On the street, it's true, the MAIN purpose to cage is for structural rigidness, and any safety advantage would be secondary. Remember, OEs make car to absorb impact, not withstand it.

I like the idea of hiding as much as you can behind/in the body panels, though most are correct that there will be compromises. Monoque & 'space' frame technologies are just that, and you could take that a step further by increasing the thickness of existing metals used in a body/chassis. For example, look at a 'ghost' image or 3D of a Volvo chassis/frame.

With like a 10 second car or better, if you wreck on the street at speed, not much short of bags & belts are going to help (not much help), and you most likely will die. Even with bags & belts, many people die daily in car accidents in 'regular' cars. Your chances are going to be better though if the car absorbs as much of the impact as possible.

Me, personally, there's only so much chassis stiffening I'm willing to do (cost, weight, practical), and when it comes to safety on the street, I guess I'll take my chances like the next guy.

.

[Camaromax]

This is a very interesting thread. I am questioning putting a cage in my car for several reasons and this just added to it. My problem is that I plan on running maybe a low 11 high 10 in the 1/4 so I believe I need one if I want to be able to go to the track and not be kicked out. Ahhh the dilemmas of life.

Here is a thought for the people who just want the structural rigidity and do'nt necessarily need the cage. syborg tt was talking about his truck where they used liquid steel to fill in voids to make it more rigid and it reminded me of a article I read where racers in japan were using a two part spray foam insulation and putting in cavities in their cars to stiffen the chassis. Maybe this would solve some of the problems by just using the spray foam like the liquid steel.

This is an industrial spray foam and is like a two part that is mixed when it is sprayed not the stuff you buy in a can at Wal-Mart.

[conekiller13]

I did the spray foam trick with My Chevelle about six years ago. I can't say I felt any change in structural rigidity however it make a noticable difference in sound deadening with minimal weight gain. I put in dead areas in between panels, like below the C-pillar, inside the brace below the B-pillar area and some of the kick panel area. I noticed a decrease in "drone" noise when on the highway.

One thing I don't know if it has been mentioned already but I believe it to be fairly importaint in any vehicle with a cage is to improve how the seats mount. Found small bolts through sheet metal wont be enough to hold your strapped in but in place when the rest of the car is no longer flexing or crumpling. If your seat tears loose a big headache will follow.

[RECOVERY ROOM]

haha.. well just wear a helment around town:thumbsup:

Pull up next to a cop at a stop light and give him a thumbs up with a helmet on!

[Pony Exp.305]

Yes, I have been seen that vehicles with bigger hp w/o roll cage, :wow: I would paranoid while driving on bigger HP:drive W/O roll cage: :drive: .
Good topic
it can't be that safe driving a 600hp car without one. Iv seen many cars with over 600 without a cage.
Some people say it will save you if you get tboned God forbid

[JohnC]

I was also going to use a 4pt roll cage with removeable crossbar. The main reason was to be able to be able to have the shoulder harnesses mount to the crossbar when the crossbar is in for track and just use the lap belt part of the camlock harness when I still want to use the back seat (and still HAVE a backseat).

Does anyone understand my way of thinking here?

When your car will be half street use and half track use, it is an option.

And while I am at it, anyone have a recommended manufacturer of
a chromoly cage for E-bodies??? (Cuda/Challenger)

Thanks

[71dusterjon]

this is my first car i'm rebuilding and putting a 4pt roll bar in but i wouldn't feel safe with a roll bar that isn't welded together. having bolts to hold pieces or a piece of roll bar in place seems sketchy due to if that bolt was to break, there could be some serious consequences. if you do put a bolt i would atleast put to bolts at each location so if one fails you still have a back up.

[SDMAN]

Ive driven street cars with cages. A legal to 10 seconds cage, if done right, can almost be like having no cage at all. Just takes the right parts and a well thought out install.
My current project will be way faster than 10 seconds. So I had an 8.50 legal setup installed. We are just finishing it up, and while its a bit more intrusive, my installer did a top rate job of keeping it out of the way (as much as possible) as well as making it safe for the speeds planned. Lots of work getting everything to fit together. When you cut the floor out of the car (to channel it over an aftermarket frame) NHRA rules require a bunch more work to make it legal. But the majority of the extra work is under the floor.
There are 3 things about street car cages that can cause problems. First is a crappy design/install that places the tubes in such a way that you are constantly banging some part of your body against them. A well designed cage will minimize this. Second is the cross bar. It can make it impossible to use the rear seat. Alston has some very nice hardware that makes a removeable cross bar possible. Lastly are the door bars. Lots of people use swing outs. I used them. Once. Rattled, PITA to open when in the seat, etc. This time we put removeable door bars in using the same Alston parts. If your not racing, you can leave the cross bar and door bars at home.