Possible Budget LSX Accessory System (GM System)

[Dave95z28]

I know many people like myself are looking for options for accessory drive systems in LSX powered vehicles and cannot really budget $2200-$3000 for a drive system.

I may have found an alternative, but I haven't found any real good pictures of the system.

GM has two versions on an accessory drive system for LSXs. One for with AC and the other without. They the following:

GM PART # 19155067
ENGINE ACCESSORY DRIVE KIT - GEN 3 & 4
WITHOUT A/C

GM PART # 19155066
DESCRIPTION: ENGINE ACCESSORY DRIVE KIT - GEN 3 & 4
WITH A/C

GM Parts Direct lists the price for them as $701.69. I can't find a good parts list description of what the kits contain or a good picture of them. Anyone have any more information about them?

The system is used in the Reggie Jackson Camaro.

[Datsbad]

:ttiwop:

Thanks Dave

[Dave95z28]

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/2006/sema/chevrolet.camaro.rj.concept/chevrolet.camaro.rj.eng.500.jpg

[Dave95z28]

http://cartype.com/images/thumbs/1/rJackson_camaro_eng.jpg

[Bowtieracing]

That looks like vette system . I really liked how Steve did on penny. He used Fbody system i believe. And lookd really good!!!

I personally dont see any point of spending 3000 on something that gm all ready did quite well. And on my eye i even like the looks of factory bracketery. But maybe stock systems dont fit every chassis .



http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/2006/sema/chevrolet.camaro.rj.concept/chevrolet.camaro.rj.eng.500.jpg

[McssGmachine]

I talked to a guy from Scoggin Dickey about a week ago and he said the kit comes with everything but, didn't have a price yet. A C5 kit with everything except fasteners goes for around $1600 and $906 without AC. I'm using the vette stuff for better fitment.

[XcYZ]

Yep, looks like the Vette system to me, like what Mark used on Camaro X (http://www.lateral-g.net/stielow/). :thumbsup:

http://www.lateral-g.net/stielow/22.jpg

http://www.lateral-g.net/stielow/LS7_installedwater.jpg

[Steve1968LS2]

That looks like vette system . I really liked how Steve did on penny. He used Fbody system i believe. And lookd really good!!!

I personally dont see any point of spending 3000 on something that gm all ready did quite well. And on my eye i even like the looks of factory bracketery. But maybe stock systems dont fit every chassis .

Yea, my f-body system cost a whopping $200.. lol

However, getting the AC to fit would be more of a challenge.

[Ummgawa]

Yea, my f-body system cost a whopping $200.. lol

However, getting the AC to fit would be more of a challenge.

You could notch the crossmember where the A/C pump would hit. A semi- circular cut out about two inches in the subframe cross member (we are talking stock sub frames here) and reweld or fill in the cut out space and you are in business. Seems to me to be a whole lot less expensive than a new pulley set up.

[Rick D]

We are running the stock F body set up on the nova. It fit well with the mock up eng, but didn't put the a/c compresser on yet.

[Bowtieracing]

You could notch the crossmember where the A/C pump would hit. A semi- circular cut out about two inches in the subframe cross member (we are talking stock sub frames here) and reweld or fill in the cut out space and you are in business. Seems to me to be a whole lot less expensive than a new pulley set up.

Thank you Jim for the idea!! That way the ac and all would be out of sight!

I found all brackets from one guy at ebay.Brand new and about 90 bucks all 5 pieces.

[XcYZ]

I came across this pic, shows the Vette layout nicely:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/master__olly/LS1Vette.jpg

[Diognes56]

Thanks for the part numbers, those will come in handy later :) .

David

[PRRC]

Do you know what the sellers name was from e-bay? I've been looking but so far nothing. All I'm running is P/S and ALT. I dont want a lot of billet stuff under the hood.I like what Steve did on Bad Penny.
TimThank you Jim for the idea!! That way the ac and all would be out of sight!

I found all brackets from one guy at ebay.Brand new and about 90 bucks all 5 pieces.

[Ummgawa]

Thank you Jim for the idea!! That way the ac and all would be out of sight!

I found all brackets from one guy at ebay.Brand new and about 90 bucks all 5 pieces.

Do you one better... here is a picture that will show you where to notch the frame. BRP Hot Rods did my stock sub frame DSE mods. If you look closely, it is really close to what DSE did. DSE's subframe has a relief where the A/C pump won't hit and the R&P goes thru the cross member. Phil did mine with the piece cut out for the R&P to go thru the frame, DSE just made it a tunnel. I went on ahead and had a piece welded over the open spot for added strength and put a Speedway Sway bar front mounted rather than the rear mount that BRP did.

Picture here for the notching:

http://brphotrods.com/parts.html

and DSE's:

http://detroitspeed.com/productpages/SUBFRAME%20DEVELOPMENT%20PICS/subframe_pic2.htm

Now DSE's is really a nice piece, but I figure if Mark is running a modified Stock Sub Frame, I can to.

[Datsbad]

You could notch the crossmember where the A/C pump would hit. A semi- circular cut out about two inches in the subframe cross member (we are talking stock sub frames here) and reweld or fill in the cut out space and you are in business. Seems to me to be a whole lot less expensive than a new pulley set up.


Have you tried this theroy yet ????

I have and it does not work !!! Way to much to cut out , it will interfear in the motor mount area.
This is why on the Jackson car they made brackets to push the ac out farther and use a ATI balancer with a separate pulley bolted to the front balancer to run the belt .

I have pics of this to confirm. Scott , can you post it ?

[camcojb]

http://www.camcojb.com/sema06098.jpg

http://www.camcojb.com/sema06099.jpg

Jody

[Datsbad]

Do you one better... here is a picture that will show you where to notch the frame. BRP Hot Rods did my stock sub frame DSE mods. If you look closely, it is really close to what DSE did. DSE's subframe has a relief where the A/C pump won't hit and the R&P goes thru the cross member. Phil did mine with the piece cut out for the R&P to go thru the frame, DSE just made it a tunnel. I went on ahead and had a piece welded over the open spot for added strength and put a Speedway Sway bar front mounted rather than the rear mount that BRP did.

Picture here for the notching:

http://brphotrods.com/parts.html

and DSE's:

http://detroitspeed.com/productpages/SUBFRAME%20DEVELOPMENT%20PICS/subframe_pic2.htm

Now DSE's is really a nice piece, but I figure if Mark is running a modified Stock Sub Frame, I can to.


Assuming everyone is using the ATS, or S&P style mounts the engine sits MUCH farther back than your set up .Also I am assuming we are talking about using a stock subframe here also .
I beleive year one went with this set up in the begining and then later switched to the S&P style for much better front engine room and weight distribution.

In the DSE pic , That is obviously the NEW subframe and would have a much different center section to alow more accomodation for various AC pumps, SD7 or the Big Sanden one.

In the BRP pic that has a very small notch for the AC , but then again with the engine sitting that much farther forward it wouldnt have any issues.

I can assure you that a ATS , S&P style mount on a LS engine with a factory or SD7 ac pump will not work . The section to be cut out goes way back into the motor mount stands , ( bolts closet to the front of the car )
We felt there was to much to be cut out and lose some rigidity in the factory frame to complete this safely.

[Datsbad]

Jody , Thanks for posting these pics.

Looking at these pics make me wonder the primary size on the headers.
It appears that these are SW headers and I know they dont make 1-7/8 .
I know there is a big concern with running 1-3/4 headers on these LS engines. I guess it did not hurt that engine. It makes upwards of 600 hp and Warren Johnson did spec out and assemble that engine.

Anyone think they are larger than 1-3/4 ? Sorry to hijack this thread with header talk !!!

[Steve1968LS2]

This is true. I used the BRP mounts on my '69 and they push the engine way forward. I wasn't using AC so we made plates to push the engine back since there was hardly room for an air intake up front.

I'm still a big fan of GM pully systems and making them work though. Well engineered and dirt cheap.

[novanutcase]

That's what I used on mine!

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g170/novanutcase/shoppics2-2-2007016.jpg

All the other kits stuck out too much and hit the R & P!

John

[68LS1]

This is why on the Jackson car they made brackets to push the ac out farther and use a ATI balancer with a separate pulley bolted to the front balancer to run the belt .

I have pics of this to confirm. Scott , can you post it ?[/QUOTE]

Pardon my ignorance what is the "Jackson" car? Is this the same way that Mark Stielow did it on Camaro X?
Does anyone know if this balancer and pulley is readily available?

This is one of the things I need to still sort and I like this idea.

cheers

[Datsbad]

This is why on the Jackson car they made brackets to push the ac out farther and use a ATI balancer with a separate pulley bolted to the front balancer to run the belt .

I have pics of this to confirm. Scott , can you post it ?

Pardon my ignorance what is the "Jackson" car? Is this the same way that Mark Stielow did it on Camaro X?
Does anyone know if this balancer and pulley is readily available?

This is one of the things I need to still sort and I like this idea.

cheers[/QUOTE]


When I refer to the Jackson car I meant the Reggie Jackson 69 That GM built for him and was on display at SEMA with the new 454 cid LSX block .

And There is a white car in Hot Rod now that shows this .

[69MyWay]

I did the F-body brackets on my 69 WITH a/c using the BRP motor mounts and a cool little bracket he makes to hang the Sanden compressor on the stock a/c bracket attachment.

I notched the frame. It has wicked cold a/c, and 100% reliable OEM serp system that can be serviced at any GM dealer (or junk yard)

I am doing a Vette system on my 85 Vette LSx project.

The main a/c bracket at cost + 15% is less than $60. Then you add the accessories, pulleys, and tensioners.

[Payton King]

using S & P mounts no way can you use a stock a/c compressor in the stock location. I did, however, move the frame horns up in the frames and used the s& p mounts. I did this to keep the LS1 oil pan from hanging down past the cross member. By rasing the motor in the car about 3/4 of an inch, it left me enough room to use the S & P lower a/c bracket and a 508 compressor. The S & P bracket mover the a/c to run off of the main belt. The other benefit or raising the motor besides the oil pan is you can also use the f body alternator in the stock location as well.

I then notched the frame for the a/c, not very much, and it fit fine. I will have to look for photos.

Of course I did all of this work to pull the frame and install a 21st century unit.

I raised the tunnel in the car also.

[Garage Dog 65]

I found all brackets from one guy at ebay.Brand new and about 90 bucks all 5 pieces.

Joni passed this along to me this morning. http://stores.ebay.com/Nook-and-Tranny-LLC

Jim

[PRRC]

Thanks looks like he has what I need.
Tim

[Ummgawa]

Assuming everyone is using the ATS, or S&P style mounts the engine sits MUCH farther back than your set up .Also I am assuming we are talking about using a stock subframe here also .
I beleive year one went with this set up in the begining and then later switched to the S&P style for much better front engine room and weight distribution.

In the DSE pic , That is obviously the NEW subframe and would have a much different center section to alow more accomodation for various AC pumps, SD7 or the Big Sanden one.

In the BRP pic that has a very small notch for the AC , but then again with the engine sitting that much farther forward it wouldnt have any issues.

I can assure you that a ATS , S&P style mount on a LS engine with a factory or SD7 ac pump will not work . The section to be cut out goes way back into the motor mount stands , ( bolts closet to the front of the car )
We felt there was to much to be cut out and lose some rigidity in the factory frame to complete this safely.

Jason

Thanks for the info. I will say that not every one is building a Camaro X, a Mule or a Fuel. Some folks are on a budget and I offered the solution as an alternative to $3000.00 pulley set up or maybe a 1500.00 fix it. Three inches forward in the engine compartment may not make that much difference to 7 out 10 enthusiasts. Phil Brewer, whom I call a good friend, is very strait forward in solutions and how to arrive at them. Not to long ago, Wayne was the only show in town on sub frames. Now they are every where. I still maintain for most the simplest solution is the best and contained in that solution is compromise. It is just the way it is. Notching the frame means the engine sits forward three to four inches is OK with some dudes. A full on Wine and Cheeze boy will make claims concerning the center of gravity and how it effects the handleing at WOT in a corner-that's cool. 99 out of 100 Pro-touring cars will never see the track, and thats cool too!

My point is not every problem in our favorite Genre has a 2500 solution attached to it. You speak of S & P mounts and A/C brackets, are they available and can you post pix of them? That would be a big help. Inclusion rather than exclusion-thats is the thing that attracts me to Lateral-G. Not some bunch of Holier than thou A holes that scream their own names when they have an Orgasm. I still think, for some, simplest is best.

:cheers:

[Payton King]

moved up the frame horns. I will send them to Scott to post. The S & P bracket for the a/c was maybe $200. S & P engine mounts are $90

Although not on a stock frame, it is the same set-up I used when I had the stock frame under the car.

If you don;t like the billet, annodize it black or scuff it with a scotch brite pad.

[Ummgawa]

Payton

Thanks man!! That is scweet looking and functional. Do you have a web address on the S & P brackets? Hey if you swing through Atlanta again, Buzz me.

Jim

[BThibodeaux]

You could notch the crossmember where the A/C pump would hit. A semi- circular cut out about two inches in the subframe cross member (we are talking stock sub frames here) and reweld or fill in the cut out space and you are in business. Seems to me to be a whole lot less expensive than a new pulley set up.


I am diggin the way you think Jim!

[Dave95z28]

I may use the set up in order to not have to track down all the individual pieces. I am likely just buying a short-block without the accessories, so I will have to get a drive system one way or the other. If I can find a great deal on a complete system on Ebay or LS1Tech I just go that route.

With the AME Subframe you can run the factory accessories and low-mount a/c unit with out problems correct?

Dave

[ironworks]

If you notch the crossmember won't it be pretty time consuming to remove the Ac compresser when it goes bad some day. i did one like that years ago and you almost have to pull the engine to get to the compressor. Wow that sounds great after paint. You know if you mount it there it will go bad. Just the way it goes

The LS7 bracket system is great. It is by far the shortest bracket system but have you priced the accessories that go with that kit. Sure the brackets are cheap, but call the dealer for the Alternator, Power steering pump, Water pump (that is differnet than the the F-body) and the AC compressor. It is not cheap. The whole deal is a bit over 2000.00. When it is all said and done.
Plus if you have an Ls1 you have to by the Ls2 corvette dampener.

Oh and don't forget those core charges. plus you have to modify the late model compressors to work with after market AC. The late model stuff runs the Compressor even when the heater is on. It is continuous duty and the old ones were cycling. I found that one out the hard way also,

[XcYZ]

Payton asked me to post pics of his setup:

[Datsbad]

Jason

Thanks for the info. I will say that not every one is building a Camaro X, a Mule or a Fuel. Some folks are on a budget and I offered the solution as an alternative to $3000.00 pulley set up or maybe a 1500.00 fix it. Three inches forward in the engine compartment may not make that much difference to 7 out 10 enthusiasts. Phil Brewer, whom I call a good friend, is very strait forward in solutions and how to arrive at them. Not to long ago, Wayne was the only show in town on sub frames. Now they are every where. I still maintain for most the simplest solution is the best and contained in that solution is compromise. It is just the way it is. Notching the frame means the engine sits forward three to four inches is OK with some dudes. A full on Wine and Cheeze boy will make claims concerning the center of gravity and how it effects the handleing at WOT in a corner-that's cool. 99 out of 100 Pro-touring cars will never see the track, and thats cool too!

My point is not every problem in our favorite Genre has a 2500 solution attached to it. You speak of S & P mounts and A/C brackets, are they available and can you post pix of them? That would be a big help. Inclusion rather than exclusion-thats is the thing that attracts me to Lateral-G. Not some bunch of Holier than thou A holes that scream their own names when they have an Orgasm. I still think, for some, simplest is best.

:cheers:


Jim , I think you are taking this all wrong.
I was simply saying stock sub and a certain type of motor mount it wont work ! It doesnt matter if its a 3000 system or a 50 system .
The notching does not move the engine.
Personally I am just trying to prevent someone trying to do the same thing I did . If someone does not want to listen then fine with me , doesnt make any difference , THEY WILL FIND OUT.

So stock sub, f body or any brackets that mount the ac DOWN LOW , wont work without modifying the stands as Payton pointed out. Then a small cut will still be needed.

So for the record , I wont buttin and tell what works and doesnt. I have personally done the cutting, grinding and head scratching up close and personal to know for sure. Just trying to help the DIY's or the people that write those checks to get it done. I would hate to pay someone for a idea that floats around the net that everyone says will work and turns out does not .

Peace out Bro !!

[Datsbad]

I may use the set up in order to not have to track down all the individual pieces. I am likely just buying a short-block without the accessories, so I will have to get a drive system one way or the other. If I can find a great deal on a complete system on Ebay or LS1Tech I just go that route.

With the AME Subframe you can run the factory accessories and low-mount a/c unit with out problems correct?

Dave

Yes Dave you can , This pic doesnt have a engine yet but you can see it will work .
http://www.camcojb.com/img1691.jpg

[Payton King]

since I do not have an AME frame, but the rack position looks the same as the 21st century. I could not run the f-body alternator in the stock location (lower driver's side) because it interfered with the power rack lines. Steve (Penny) was able to make his work by remaking a few of the lines. I think he post some pics somewhere.

As far as Street & Performance cataloge. www.hotrodlane.cc I usually speak with Lambert over there. Mark owns the company and answers the phone as much as anyone.

[CraigMorrison]

With the AME Subframe you can run the factory accessories and low-mount a/c unit with out problems correct?

Dave

Dave- Here are a few pics to answer your question.
http://images14.fotki.com/v371/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4378-vi.jpg

http://images14.fotki.com/v370/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4384-vi.jpg

http://images9.fotki.com/v185/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4387-vi.jpg

http://images20.fotki.com/v372/photos/4/453080/4377592/_MG_4389-vi.jpg

[Ummgawa]

Very helpful..thanks all!! Jason., thanks for the heads up dude -we are on the same page. This is very helpful to us all and again thanks.:thumbsup:

[kaptainkw]

Dave/Craig:

Yes, the a/c compressor clears in an LS1 and perhaps an LS2 GTO but I don't believe it will clear LS6, LS2 or LS7 vettes with factory brackets as they are set-back closer to the block. I was just mocking things up today with my new AME sub-frame (awesome by the way!!!) and the LS2 vette a/c bracket sets-back too far and hit the motor mount. I like the idea of Mike Stielow's set-up to solve the problem. Anyone know if the LS2 and LS7 vette pulleys/balancer are the same distance from the block?

Jeff M.

[CraigMorrison]

Jeff- I saw that you guys picked up your subframe the other day! Definitely keep us posted with pics, would love to put something up on our site!

[customcam]

Yes Dave you can , This pic doesnt have a engine yet but you can see it will work .
http://www.camcojb.com/img1691.jpg

:wow: sorry off topic but that looks Sweeeeet :drool:

[Datsbad]

Jeff- I saw that you guys picked up your subframe the other day! Definitely keep us posted with pics, would love to put something up on our site!

My pics not good enough huh??? LOL

[CraigMorrison]

My pics not good enough huh??? LOL

Would definitely love to see some pics, but I don't see anything in my in box!

[customcam]

My pics not good enough huh??? LOL
Is That Fuel?:_paranoid

[BA.]

it's funny, I just read 5 pages of discussion on LSx bracketry and I still don't have a good feel for what will work on my stock frame if I do not want to notch it. :) Perhaps a re-read tomorrow will enlighten me more.

[Datsbad]

it's funny, I just read 5 pages of discussion on LSx bracketry and I still don't have a good feel for what will work on my stock frame if I do not want to notch it. :) Perhaps a re-read tomorrow will enlighten me more.


If you want AC then you are a little screwed mounting it in a low or factory position. There are many kit out to mount it high.

If no AC then vette brackets or F Body brackets are you ticket. I prefer the F Body stuff.

Basically look at the direction you want to go and send me a PM , I will help you out .

[Datsbad]

Is That Fuel?:_paranoid

No that is "DEVIOUS"

[CraigMorrison]

No that is "DEVIOUS"

So are you going to send me pics?

[Datsbad]

So are you going to send me pics?
I sent them to your email

[Steve1968LS2]

I sent them to your email


Under construction section dude.. ring me up tomorrow :)

[CraigMorrison]

I sent them to your email

Cool! I'll look at them when I get into the office on Monday!

[dave96dcm]

I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the CTS-V brackets. I'm helping a friend put these on his car and everything is really tight to the block. The a/c is low on the passanger side and everything else is on the drivers side. Sorry I do not have any pics.

[69MyWay]

I am getting ready to run a new LS2 crate in my 85 LSx project Corvette. I built the motor mounts using a donor LS1 with Vette brackets (parts and pieces).

I just found out the LS2 is different, and GM is offering a one stop shopping for that too here:

19155067

With the new reluctor (58 pulse)...where do you get a harness and PCM for the new LS2 stuff????