X Mas

[Stuart Adams]

Do you know why Santa Clauss is si Jolly at Christmas time?










He knows were all the naughty girls live.

[bob johnson]

Why Xmas?? Xmas offends good people... Christmas offends #$%#X...my opinion for what it's worth

[Bandit]

Watch out for Christmas carols too, some of them aren't very politically correct... :rolleyes:

[bob johnson]

Like I am??? Political correctness is a 1 way street..some people have freedom of speech and say everything and anything they please with no chastisement..the other side doesn't enjoy those priveledges..I'm on the wrong side of the street...PC is way overrated..IMHHO..

[Bandit]

Like I am??? Political correctness is a 1 way street..some people have freedom of speech and say everything and anything they please with no chastisement..the other side doesn't enjoy those priveledges..I'm on the wrong side of the street...PC is way overrated..IMHHO..
Not sure if you noticed my sarcasm with the PC comment. You're not on the wrong side of the street, you're on the side that still has some common sense. :yes:
When you can't even call it a "Christmas tree" anymore without offending someone--you're supposed to call it a "holiday tree,"--something is very wrong! :mad:

Since this thread started with a joke, I have one for ya: (Sorry it's so long, I'm sure it was written by a lawyer)

THE POLITICALLY CORRECT HOLIDAY GREETING (Enjoy!)

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit our
best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially
responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral,
celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within
the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of
your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect
for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others,
or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at
all . . .
. . . and a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and
medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the
generally accepted calendar year 2000, but not without due
respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose
contributions to society have helped make America great,
(not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other
country or is the only 'AMERICA' in the western hemisphere), and
without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical
ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual
preference of the wishee.
(By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms.
This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is
freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It
implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the
wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where
prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This
wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual
application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance
of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and
warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance
of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.) :_paranoid

-----------------------------------
Merry Christmas and God bless you, one and all! (Hope no one gets PO'd by that) :D

[bob johnson]

that's funny...but it's getting that bad...yes I noticed the sarcasm..ONLY IN AMERICA ...giving some people freedom to do what they want, takes another groups freedoms away from them..

[Rubes]

Like I am??? Political correctness is a 1 way street..some people have freedom of speech and say everything and anything they please with no chastisement..the other side doesn't enjoy those priveledges..I'm on the wrong side of the street...PC is way overrated..IMHHO..
:clap:

[EFI]

THE POLITICALLY CORRECT HOLIDAY GREETING

That is funny! I'll be sending that to all my PC friends. ;-)

Politically Correct... that sounds a bit like an Oxymoron to me.





_____________________________________
- Dan

[Ummgawa]

Born and raised in the South, just like Bob. Its amazing how many folks that are't from here have moved here and try to tell us dumb Southerners "How it is" back home. I have great news!! We are not where "you are from" You happen to live "Where we are from".

Merry Christmas!!

[71Nova]

My wife is a substitute teacher here in Ca. It is sad that they can't do christmas stuff with the kids. They had a "Holiday" play at school the other day and all the songs the kids sang where about the earth.

[GTX]

Artist: Mr. Garrison Lyrics
Song: Merry Fu**ing Christmas Lyrics
Mr. Garrison: I heard there is no Christmas
In the silly Middle East
No trees, no snow, no Santa Claus
They have different religious beliefs

They believe in Muhammad
And not in our holiday
And so every December
I go to the Middle East and say...

"Hey there Mr. Muslim
Merry fu**ing Christmas
Put down that book the Koran
And hear some holiday wishes.

In case you haven't noticed
It's Jesus's birthday.
So get off your heathen Muslim *ss
and fu*ing celebrate.

There is no holiday season in India I've heard
They don't hang up their stockings
And that is just absurd!

They've never read a Christmas story.
They don't know what Rudolph is about
And that is why in December
I'll go to India and shout...

Hey there Mr. Hinduist
Merry fu**ing Christmas
Drink eggnog and eat some beef
And pass it to the missus.

In case you haven't noticed
It's Jesus's birthday
So get off your heathen Hindu *ss
and fu**ing celebrate!

Now I heard that in Japan
Everyone just lives in sin
They pray to several gods
And put needles in their skin.

On December 25th
All they do is eat a cake
And that is why I go to Japan
And walk around and say...

Hey there Mr. Shintoist
Merry fu**ing Christmas
God is going to kick your *ss
You infidelic pagan scum.

In case you haven't noticed
There's festive things to do
So lets all rejoice for Jesus
And Merry fu**ing Christmas to you.

On Christmas day I travel `round the world and say,
Taoists, Krishnas, Buddhists, and all you atheists too,
Merry Fu**ing Christmas, To You!

(Clapping)

Thank you Mr. hat

[Bill Howell]

Like I am??? Political correctness is a 1 way street..some people have freedom of speech and say everything and anything they please with no chastisement..the other side doesn't enjoy those priveledges..I'm on the wrong side of the street...PC is way overrated..IMHHO.. :yes: :yes:

[bob johnson]

I guess that's OK since 40% of the people in LA county don't pay taxes..we should let them dictate our customs..Try to do that in their country with our customs...it would be bad enough if they all paid their way..this way it's inexcusable...get to enjoy the good life on the cheap here..LA county will follow suit on Orange County's bankruptsy a few years back..

[bob johnson]

Artist: Mr. Garrison Lyrics
Song: Merry Fu**ing Christmas Lyrics
Mr. Garrison: I heard there is no Christmas
In the silly Middle East
No trees, no snow, no Santa Claus
They have different religious beliefs

They believe in Muhammad
And not in our holiday
And so every December
I go to the Middle East and say...

"Hey there Mr. Muslim
Merry fu**ing Christmas
Put down that book the Koran
And hear some holiday wishes.

In case you haven't noticed
It's Jesus's birthday.
So get off your heathen Muslim *ss
and fu*ing celebrate.

There is no holiday season in India I've heard
They don't hang up their stockings
And that is just absurd!

They've never read a Christmas story.
They don't know what Rudolph is about
And that is why in December
I'll go to India and shout...

Hey there Mr. Hinduist
Merry fu**ing Christmas
Drink eggnog and eat some beef
And pass it to the missus.

In case you haven't noticed
It's Jesus's birthday
So get off your heathen Hindu *ss
and fu**ing celebrate!

Now I heard that in Japan
Everyone just lives in sin
They pray to several gods
And put needles in their skin.

On December 25th
All they do is eat a cake
And that is why I go to Japan
And walk around and say...

Hey there Mr. Shintoist
Merry fu**ing Christmas
God is going to kick your *ss
You infidelic pagan scum.

In case you haven't noticed
There's festive things to do
So lets all rejoice for Jesus
And Merry fu**ing Christmas to you.

On Christmas day I travel `round the world and say,
Taoists, Krishnas, Buddhists, and all you atheists too,
Merry Fu**ing Christmas, To You!

(Clapping)

Thank you Mr. hat

damn redneck southerners...not low class..no class...I'm not embarrased to be one in fact I'm proud to be one so don't look for an apology from me..lol

[the camtender]

Twas the month before Christmas
when all through our land
not a christian was praying
nor taking a stand

Why the Politically Correct Police had taken away,
the reason for Christmas--no one could say.
The children were told by their schools not to sing,
about shepards and wise men and angels and things

It might hurt people's feelings,the teachers would say
Dec.25th is just a "holiday"
Yet the shoppers were ready with cash,checks,and credit
pushing folks down to the floor just to GET IT!
cd's from Madonna,an x box,an i pod,
something was changing,something quite odd!

Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa
in hopes to sell books by Franken and Foonda.

But as Target were hanging their trees upside down
at Lowes the word Christmas-was no where to be found.
At K-Mart and Staples and Pennys and Sears
you won't hear the word Christmas;it won't touch your ears.

Inclusive,sensitive,DI-VER-SITY
are words that were used to intimidate me.
Now Daschle,now Darden,nowSharpton,Wolf Blitzen
on Boxer,on Rather,on Kerry,on Clinton !

At the top of the Senate,there arose such a clatter
to eliminate Jesus,in all public matter.
And we spoke not a word,as they took away our faith
forbidden to speak of salvation and grace.
The true gift of Christmas was exchanged and discarded.

The reason for the season,stopped before it started.
So as you celebrate "Winter Break"under your dream tree
sipping your Starbucks,listen too me.
Choose your words carefullly,choose what you say
I'll shout "MERRY CHRISTMAS",not happy holiday.

Our country was founded under the Christian way
To our "guests" I can say
If you don't like it,YOU DON'T HAVE TO STAY !!

O yea I'm probably what alot of people would call a Jesus Freak
but down here alot of us still believe in our "HERITAGE"

MERRY CHRISTMAS and may GOD's blessings be seen by ALL

Jerry Balko and extended family

[Mkelcy]

I had a few thoughts on your comments:

I guess that's OK since 40% of the people in LA county don't pay taxes..Got any back up for that? If you're referring to illegal immigrants, the Board of Supervisors thinks LA County has about 12% of the illegal immigrants in the United States. Because LA County has about 10,000,000 residents, 40% illegal would be 4,000,000 people. Backing that into the 12% number would mean there are roughly 33,000,000 illegals in the United States, an estimate that is over 3 times the Department of Homeland security estimate. we should let them dictate our customs..Try to do that in their country with our customs...it would be bad enough if they all paid their way..this way it's inexcusable...get to enjoy the good life on the cheap here..Sorry to interrupt your combo PC/illegal immigrant rant, but most illegal immigrants would be perfectly comfortable with a "Merry Christmas" greeting, coming as they do from largely Catholic countires. LA county will follow suit on Orange County's bankruptsy a few years back.. Once again sorry to interrupt your rant with facts, but the Orange County bankruptcy was largely the result of a ponzi investment scheme gone bad by Orange County Treasurer-Tax Collector Robert L. Citron. Although illegal immigrant costs are clearly a challenge for southern California counties, the Orange County bankruptcy had little to do with illegal immigrant costs and much to do with a crooked government employee.

I'm always surprised how people who claim to be Christians express such unChristian thoughts in the name of Christianity.

With that said, you boys enjoy yourselves and don't mind me.

By the way, Merry Christmas.

[Fluid Power]

Uh Oh! (zipping up the flame proof undies) :_paranoid

[Bill Howell]

:drama:

I will take buttered popcorn and a root beer please.
Wait, may need some :captain:

[Bill Howell]

Some of the info came from this email. Taken from the LA times.






From the L.A. Times




1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people)
are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are
predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.



2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.




3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.




4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien
Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.



5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers
are Mexican nationals here illegally.




6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.




7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles
are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.




8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.




9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.



10.. In L.A. County 5.1 million people speak English.
3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L.A. County ).



(All the above from the Los Angeles Times)







Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops,
but 29% are on welfare.



Over 70% of the United States ' annual population growth
(and over 90% of California , Florida , and New York )
results from immigration.



The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was,
(after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), a NET $70 BILLION/
year, [Professor Don ald Huddle, Rice University ]. The lifetime
fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the average
adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE number.



29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.




If they can come to this country to raise Hell and demonstrate by
the thousands, WHY ca n't they take charge over the corruption
in their own country?



We are a bunch of fools for letting this continue.







THE U.S. VS MEXICO




On February 15, 1998, the U.S. and Mexican soccer teams met at the Los Angeles
Coliseum. The crowd was overwhelmingly pro-Mexican even though most lived
in this country. They booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held
upside down. As the match progressed, supporters of the U.S. team were insulted,
pelted with projectiles, punched and spat upon. Beer and trash were thrown at
the U.S. players before and after the match. The coach of the U.S. team, Steve
Sampson said, "This was the most painful experience I have ever had in this
profession."



Did you know that immigrants from Mexico and other non-European countries
can come to this country and get preferences in jobs, education, and government
contracts. It's called affirmative action or racial privilege. The Emperor of Japan
or the President of Mexico could migrate here and immediately be eligible for
special rights unavailable for Americans of European descent.



Corporate America has signed on to the idea that minorities and third world
immigrants should get special, privileged status. Some examples are Exxon,
Texaco, Merrill Lynch, Boeing, Paine Weber, Starbucks and many more.




DID YOU KNOW?



Did you know ... that Mexico regularly intercedes on the side
of the defense in criminal cases involving Mexican nationals?

Did you know ... that Mexico has NEVER extradited a Mexican
national accused of murder in the U.S. in spite of agreements to do so?
According to the L.A. Times, Orange County , California is home to 275
gangs with 17,000 members, 98% of which are Mexican and Asian.
How's your county doing?



According to a New York Times article dated May 19, 1994, 20 years after
the great influx of legal immigrants from Southeast Asia , 30% are still on
welfare compared to 8% of households nationwide. A Wall Street Journal
editorial dated December 5, 1994 quotes law enforcement officials as stat-
ing that Asian mobsters are the "greatest criminal challenge the country
faces." Not bad for a group that is still under 5% of the population.



Is education important to you? Here are the words of a teacher who spent
over 20 years in the Los Angeles School system. "Imagine teachers in classes
containing 30-40 students of widely varying attention spans and motivation,
many of whom aren't fluent in English. Educators seek learning materials
likely to reach the majority of students and that means fewer words and
math problems and more pictures and multicultural references."





WHEN I WAS YOUNG

I remember hearing about the immigrants that came through Ellis Island .
They wanted to learn English. They wanted to breathe free. They wanted
to become Americans. Now, far too many immigrants come here with de-
mands. They demand to be taught in their own language. They demand spe-
cial privileges ... affirmative action. They demand ethnic studies that glorify
their culture.


NOW ...
WHY CAN'T WE SEND THEM HOME

[Mkelcy]

Some of the info came from this email. Taken from the LA times.

From the L.A. Times

1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County ( L.A. County has 10.2 million people)
are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are
predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.


As a resident of Los Angeles County that number seems extremely high. Assuming that's an accurate quote, I wonder how the LA Times defined "worker." The census data reports a little over 3,800,000 non-farm jobs in LA County in 2003. Now either the census bureau managed to count all jobs held by illegal immigrants for which they are paid in cash - pretty unlikely in my estimation - or the LA Times is claiming there are, in addition to the 3,800,000 reported jobs another over 2,500,000 jobs held by illegal immigrants. For that to be true, however, every illegal immigrant (regardless of age, etc.) would have to be working two jobs (there are estimated to be about 1,300,000 illegal immigrants in LA County). As industrious as most illegals are, that also seems unlikely.

Two other thoughts, (i) the 40% figure, again assuming it's true, likely misleads how much actual tax revenue is lost, as illegal immigrant employees paid in cash are unlikely actually to have to pay much federal or state income taxes under our progressive tax schemes; and (ii) we conviently ignore the fact that the illegal immigrant employees paid in cash are likely cleaning the homes, mowing the yards and cooking in the kitchens of the favorite restaurants of nice folks who bemoan the illegal immigration problem on boards like this.

************************************************** *******

With that, I'm not going to post in this thread any more. It started out with Stuart simply trying to tell a joke; someone was offended he used the contraction "Xmas" (which I've seen used for the more than 55 years I've been able to read and is hardly PC), and then the thread went off on a spree of bashing various groups with whom some folks here apparently disagree.

Sincerely, Merry Christmas to all.

[bob johnson]

I had a few thoughts on your comments:

Got any back up for that? If you're referring to illegal immigrants, the Board of Supervisors thinks LA County has about 12% of the illegal immigrants in the United States. Because LA County has about 10,000,000 residents, 40% illegal would be 4,000,000 people. Backing that into the 12% number would mean there are roughly 33,000,000 illegals in the United States, an estimate that is over 3 times the Department of Homeland security estimate. Sorry to interrupt your combo PC/illegal immigrant rant, but most illegal immigrants would be perfectly comfortable with a "Merry Christmas" greeting, coming as they do from largely Catholic countires. Once again sorry to interrupt your rant with facts, but the Orange County bankruptcy was largely the result of a ponzi investment scheme gone bad by Orange County Treasurer-Tax Collector Robert L. Citron. Although illegal immigrant costs are clearly a challenge for southern California counties, the Orange County bankruptcy had little to do with illegal immigrant costs and much to do with a crooked government employee.

I'm always surprised how people who claim to be Christians express such unChristian thoughts in the name of Christianity.

With that said, you boys enjoy yourselves and don't mind me.

By the way, Merry Christmas.

California dreamer...maybe you need to read that little post of mine again. You read a lot between the lines. Did I mention the term illegal immigrant?
My daughter is a gemologist and worked for several diamond wholesalers in the L/A area. These were very wealthy Israeli businessmen..some that owned expensive property here and many were US citizens (none of them were illegal immigrants). They dealt primarily in cash or memos..which ultimately usually meant cash. It was nothing to see someone walk in with $1,000,000 or more in diamonds, or $500K in cash. Dope dealers, people that own their own businesses (especially businesses that handle lots of cash) can easily beat the tax game (many of the Asian, Mid Easterners,etc own their own businesses. (they love cash businesses by the way..wonder why). I didn't refer to illegal immigrants causing the Orange County Bankruptsy did I? If you're referring to me as a bible thumping christian, you are way off base again (Ask anyone on this sight)..or better yet go to Musclerides.com...(I get deleted less over there than I do over here and pro touring..look at the disclosure they had to put on me on pro touring. Put damn true on your buddy list and you two can have at it..birds of a feather...

[bob johnson]

As a resident of Los Angeles County that number seems extremely high. Assuming that's an accurate quote, I wonder how the LA Times defined "worker." The census data reports a little over 3,800,000 non-farm jobs in LA County in 2003. Now either the census bureau managed to count all jobs held by illegal immigrants for which they are paid in cash - pretty unlikely in my estimation - or the LA Times is claiming there are, in addition to the 3,800,000 reported jobs another over 2,500,000 jobs held by illegal immigrants. For that to be true, however, every illegal immigrant (regardless of age, etc.) would have to be working two jobs (there are estimated to be about 1,300,000 illegal immigrants in LA County). As industrious as most illegals are, that also seems unlikely.

Two other thoughts, (i) the 40% figure, again assuming it's true, likely misleads how much actual tax revenue is lost, as illegal immigrant employees paid in cash are unlikely actually to have to pay much federal or state income taxes under our progressive tax schemes; and (ii) we conviently ignore the fact that the illegal immigrant employees paid in cash are likely cleaning the homes, mowing the yards and cooking in the kitchens of the favorite restaurants of nice folks who bemoan the illegal immigration problem on boards like this.

************************************************** *******

With that, I'm not going to post in this thread any more. It started out with Stuart simply trying to tell a joke; someone was offended he used the contraction "Xmas" (which I've seen used for the more than 55 years I've been able to read and is hardly PC), and then the thread went off on a spree of bashing various groups with whom some folks here apparently disagree.

Sincerely, Merry Christmas to all.


Hot Damn..I would have never guessed you were from California..lol .IMHHO one of the greatest threats to this country is book smart liberals, with very little common sense and no street smarts. They get their liberal arts degrees and gravitate to teaching, publishing,government, etc jobs. They can't make it in the business world so they wind up being the ones who teach our kids and work the printed and TV media so we predominately get the liberal point of view on most issues. It's very stylish to feel sorry and champion the rights of the weak, poor, so called underpriveleged, minorities, etc.(as long as it's not poor white trash..nobody gives a hoot about them..me included) Move the liberals into the projects to live for 1 year..let them become a policeman in a poor area of town..that'll give them some street smarts...I think I'll rely on the LA Times statistics. You can't even read a 2 sentence post without misconstruing 90% of what was said..

[the camtender]

And I thought the answer to the questions here were hidden in my last last post :beathorse

[bob johnson]

I had a few thoughts on your comments:

Got any back up for that? If you're referring to illegal immigrants, the Board of Supervisors thinks LA County has about 12% of the illegal immigrants in the United States. Because LA County has about 10,000,000 residents, 40% illegal would be 4,000,000 people. Backing that into the 12% number would mean there are roughly 33,000,000 illegals in the United States, an estimate that is over 3 times the Department of Homeland security estimate. Sorry to interrupt your combo PC/illegal immigrant rant, but most illegal immigrants would be perfectly comfortable with a "Merry Christmas" greeting, coming as they do from largely Catholic countires. Once again sorry to interrupt your rant with facts, but the Orange County bankruptcy was largely the result of a ponzi investment scheme gone bad by Orange County Treasurer-Tax Collector Robert L. Citron. Although illegal immigrant costs are clearly a challenge for southern California counties, the Orange County bankruptcy had little to do with illegal immigrant costs and much to do with a crooked government employee.

I'm always surprised how people who claim to be Christians express such unChristian thoughts in the name of Christianity.

With that said, you boys enjoy yourselves and don't mind me.

By the way, Merry Christmas.

was it the same crooked employee that has bankrupted the utility industry in California? I guess the Feds will have to bail out the whole state where you guys can have electricity and gas. California led the way in the trading, deregulation and futures in utilities..sounded good on paper...Let's blame it on Enron...

[Mkelcy]

IMHHO one of the greatest threats to this country is book smart liberals, with very little common sense and no street smarts. They got their liberal arts degrees and gravitate to teaching, publishing,government, etc jobs. They couldn't make it in the business world so they wind up being the ones who teach our kids and work the printed and TV media so we predominately get the liberal point of view on most issues. It's very stylish to feel sorry and champion the rights of the weak, poor, so called underpriveleged, minorities, etc.(as long as it's not poor white trash..nobody gives a hoot about them..me included) Move the liberals into the projects to live for 1 year..let them become a policeman in a poor area of town..that'll give them some street smarts...I think I'll rely on the LA Times statistics. You can't even read a 2 sentence post without misconstruing 90% of what was said..
Bob, I regret doing this because I said I wasn't going to post here again, but I'll make this exception. Because I'm the only person who's posted anything here disagreeing with you, I'll assume your comments quoted above were directed at me.

(1) I'm having a real problem believing you were referring to Israeli, Asian and Mid Eastern businessmen when you said "it would be bad enough if they all paid their way..this way it's inexcusable...get to enjoy the good life on the cheap here.." Somehow, I don't see Israeli, Asian and Mid Eastern businessmen as constituting 40% of the workers in LA County you mentioned or likely, as you suggested, driving LA County into bankruptcy. I recognize BS when I see it, and you, sir, are BS'ing.

(2) You may think me a "book smart liberal, with very little common sense and no street smarts." I guess that's true if you ignore working since I was 12, the 4 years as an enlisted man in the Navy during the Viet-Nam war (and in theater) and the four more years working to save enough so that, with the GI Bill, I could put myself through college and law school and my now 30 plus year legal career. I guess I'd be willing to match my "street smarts" with yours pretty much any day; on the other hand let's see you negotiate a $500,000,000 credit agreement with 35 bankers and their lawyers.

(3) I read all of what you said and, regretfully, think I construed your meaning perfectly. That you now wish to claim to have meant something else is of no importance to me.

(4) Finally, IMHO, one of the greatest threats to this country is folks who hate anything they don't like, don't understand or don't agree with. I may or may not be describing you, I don't know.

And, with that I'm done, or I might say something I'll regret.

[907rs]

I think this thread has run it's course now guys