1st Gen Camaro Sub-frame Guidence

[kaptainkw]

Hello everyone:

I'm a relative newbie who's just bought a '68 Convertible that is sitting at a hot rod shop in CA (I'm in the Pacific Northwest). It comes with a very nice stock frame with chromed tubular a-arms, etc. however I want to go with aftermarket for weight, geometry and the cool factor. My plans for the car are a crate LS2 w/T56. The car comes with a C-4 Dana 36 IRS that has not been mounted yet (I know I need the 44 but I'll change that later). Being from the Northwest I know of Wayne Due and I'm trying to find one of his IRS bracket kits (If anyone has one they want to part with....).

The car will be more of a resto-mod leaning more towards the "mod." I don't plan to race just cruise down Highway 101 with the top down. It's not my intent to start something here but in looking at the available subframes I'm just trying to get a sense of what I need given that I don't need all out performance. I've looked at DSE, 21st Century, Chris Alston, Fatman, Total Cost Involved and, of course Wayne Due. Some look stronger with more and "beefier" crossmembers and others look like they will collapse when is motor sits in it. Cost is not necessarily an object if there is a compelling reason but money saved "here" can go "there."

Any guidence would be appreciated!

Thx in advance guys!!!

Jeff

[Silver69Camaro]

Come down to Tacoma and take a tour here at Art Morrison Enterprises. We'll have a Camaro C5 clip available shortly, the prototype has recently be test fitted.

[rwhite692]

How about posting some pics?

Is the frame configured such that it can accept "stock replacement" type tubular upper and lower A-Arms? (Such as DSE, Hotchkis, Global West)?

Not everyone wants to run a C4/5 front suspension...

[aonghus]

Don't know if you're aware or not bud, but Wayne Due's shop is closed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. lol :wow:

[kaptainkw]

Thanks Guys:

Yes, I know Wayne Due is no longer in business. :mad:

As for the existing sub-frame, I've not seen it with the A-arms as they where being chromed when I saw the car a couple weeks ago. Here's a link to the car as it sits now. It shows the sub-frame but no components.

http://www.jkrscustoms.com/camaro.html

I know that I can use the stock frame but I'd rather go aftermarket.

[Bowtieracing]

Hello Jeff!

Intresting project you have!! This is wery "hot topic" because there seems to be more and more options coming all the time. Since you are after new sub frame for upgraded geometry and cool factor can ask if someone knows is there really a big weight difference between aftermarket subs vs stock? DSEs new must weight less but howabout others? They look pretty rigid to me.

And then one more; In the early ages when DSE built Twister what did they do to stock sub to get 275 at front ?!?!?

[Silver69Camaro]

How about posting some pics?

Is the frame configured such that it can accept "stock replacement" type tubular upper and lower A-Arms? (Such as DSE, Hotchkis, Global West)?

Not everyone wants to run a C4/5 front suspension...

Currently, it will just be C5 but a stock replacement is in the works. Although the geometry is pretty good with aftermarket replacement components, it's still not as good as our C5 geometry (which isn't stock C5, either).

Pics available soon!

[Bowtieracing]

Currently, it will just be C5 but a stock replacement is in the works. Although the geometry is pretty good with aftermarket replacement components, it's still not as good as our C5 geometry (which isn't stock C5, either).

Pics available soon!

Wery intresting!! How about price,weight and what kind of R&D and testing you have done it ?

Personally i would prefer C4/5/6 system over the stock sub but cant afford most of them :(

[jsconiers]

Jeff,
I went with a BRP Hotrods modified stock sub-frame that will accept a ls1 / t56. The sub frame was stripped and modified, powder coated, cross member swapped, etc. My new tubular LCAs / UCAs, new QA1 coil overs, new sway bar, and Fbody disk brakes (additional bracket) were all cleaned up and installed on the sub-frame and mailed to me. Put "roller" tires on the sub frame,drop the engine / trans in, run your lines and put the body back on and your done. Considering everything was done for me the cost was good. Personally, it was the way go unless you pony up for the new Detroit Speed sub-frame or Chris Alston's sub-frame. I have not run either of the two but I've been told they are the best available for the LSX swap. Though the C5 swap mentioned above sounds good!
JOHN

[Silver69Camaro]

Bowtie,
I just read your signature that says you have a '63 Z06. Although you can't tell, I am currently bowing down in front of my computer monitor! :hail:

Anyway, currently the prototype is outfitted with 0.188" thick materials (which is way overkill for some areas), so it's heaver than it will be when in production. The 3D model (done in Solidworks) weighs in at 105lbs bare (in production fashion), which is pretty accurate.

As far as stiffness goes, there are two key issues:
1. The stock subframe is quite stiff.
2. The REAL stiffness that we are worried about is when the subframe is bolted to the car.

I have done some torsional tests with our subframe and a good stock piece. The results I have show our unit is "as stiff" as a stock piece. Now, I say "as stiff" because it's within 10% w/o the trans crossmember bolted in, but within 0-5% when it is included. This is all fine and dandy, but who cares what it is when it's out of the car?

Bolting the subframe to the car, with or without the trans crossmember, there was virtually no difference between the stock subframe and ours. I consider this a pretty good accomplishment, considering how bulky the stock frame is. Quite frankly, the fenders & body do so much of the work, I could probably lose some key strutural components and still be as stiff as the stock frame.

Pricing is currently being reviewed, so I can't give an exact number. Obviously it will vary if, say, you decide you'd like 14 6-piston brakes. The only thing I can say is it will not be the most expensive unit on the market, nor will it be the cheapest.

[Bowtieracing]

Hello Silver69camaro!

I am really glad you liked my 63.It was a long project and finally done.If you saw it in my pages i am sorry its mostly finish .

I have been dreaming of 69 camaro since my friend had one and finally agreed a deal with gentleman from texas. So right now iam building it in my mind until i get it home!!

C5/C6 suspension stuff is top of my list , so i cant wait to see your frame! :thumbsup: Glad i have not yet bought anything!!!!!

[68LS1]

Hi kaptain kw, another 68 convertible owner here.

If you are only going to cruise, but granted on a twisty bit of road, I think save some bucks, keep the stock subframe and do the ATS tall spindle upgrade & an upgraded steering box. You can still use tubular control arms for that look factor.

You get bolt on C5 brakes using the spindles. Add nice springs, shockers & sway bar and voila!

With the convertible I think subframe connectors are so important for improving the handling. I used DSE weld ins and would again. Haven't driven it yet but the difference when just jacking it up was amazing.

cheers

Roger

[jsconiers]

do you think the sub frame connectors made that much of a difference? Like my earlier post says I went with a modified stock sub frame but opted not to spend the money on the SFCs as I thought they were not very useful....I did however go with a hotchkis x brace.....