66 Nova update

[kwhizz]

Just a little background my interest in Nova's...... Back in April of 66 I took delivery of a Marina Blue L-79 SS Nova...... That started it all....Didn't realize what a special car it was until a couple of years after I sold it..... Anyhow, we were down in Florida on vacation in 87 and after looking thru the classic car section of the Sarasota newspaper I noticed a 66 Nova for sale..... We went and looked at it.....It was a Sport Coupe 283 powerglide White top, Mist Blue bottom.....Absolutely Rust free..... Bought it and had it shipped back to Wisconsin....So over the years I somewhat tried to replicate my old car.....

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/66%20Nova/.highres/66novascr.jpg

Put a 350 and a 700R4 trans in it......added Nitrous and the car went a best of 10.92 on street tires back in 2006...... The people at the drag strip told me not to come back until I put a Roll cage in the car.... That was when I quit racing as I didn't want to screw up the car even if it was for my safety....
So I kept the car and on my grandsons 16th birthday I gave him the car... He has since then had Frameup wheelworks install a 9" ford rear, mini tubs, and subframe connectors........and the story continues..... I'll be posting updates on the evolution

Ken

[camcojb]

Love those cars, had a Marina blue 67.

[kwhizz]

A before and after pic........ More to come

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Hummmm!!!!...... What's coming next ?????

[kwhizz]

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[andrewb70]

LT4 with a 4L75e from GM?

Andrew

[kwhizz]

Yes. GM connect and cruise

[CHJNCSU]

Good luck with the build! I look forward to seeing the finished project!

[kwhizz]

I'm getting an education with the differences between the LS and the LT engines........ to be explained in future posts.......The first issue I encountered was changing to the Holley 302-20 oil pan........Mounted the engine on a engine stand and flipped the engine over to change the pan...... Simple..Right!!!.....when I opened the Holley box I was looking for the pan gasket...... Hummm!!!!..... Went online and found out they no longer use a pan gasket...the pan is sealed with RTV sealant..... O.K....... Took the pan bolts out and had to pry the stock pan off.......Done...... Then I tried to get the pan off...Couldn't get the pan off as the oil pump sticks up and the pan was wedged between the oil pump casting and the inside of the harmonic balancer......Hummm!!!!...... If you don't know..... The balancer removal is easy..... But putting them back on is a major Pain.... Gotta get a new bolt as you can't reuse them as they are torqued and then stretched per factory spec's.......https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1443x1082q70/922/zl0Twl.jpg

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Had to put the keyed flywheel locker on and order a new harmonic balancer bolt and go thru the torque and stretch procedure.... 20 minute job ended up being a day long ordeal...... one of many lessons learned

Ken

[kwhizz]

With the engine assy I was also supplied with a Holley front drive assy....Now.... with the LT engine family there are a few changes that need to be accommodated.....Since these engines are direct injected the PCV system becomes very important.....In a normal engine assy if oil vapors get into the intake and get on the intake valves the incoming gas will wash it off keeping the valve clean...... In the LT since it is direct injected this is not an option.....Holley copied the GM system and they have a vapor collection reservoir (like a catch can) that drains the oil back into the oil pan..... I'm sure there's more to it but this is my understanding of what's going on...Holley doesn't include this drain back feature in their kit......I was going to use AN fittings and rubber hose.... But they cautioned that keeping the drain feature away from the exhaust system and also maintaining a downward pitch to the drain.....I could see that my original idea wasn't going to work....the motor mount adaptor plate and motor mount wasn't going to allow this.......So, after going in the house and thinking about this.... I went back out and took the original draintube that was on the drivers side and cut it up and welded it back together and (with a little bit of grinding on the ribs between the motor mount bolts) the tube now fit under the adaptor plates and were hidden from the exhaust manifolds

[IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1443x1082q70/924/o93p1A.jpg

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[kwhizz]

The Holley front drive set-up has another change from the other set-ups.... The normal set-ups have a single belt driving the supercharger and all other accessories are driver off a smaller belt..... For some reason Holley added the power steering pump into the supercharger drive belt...... To do this and eliminate pressure from the stress put on accys they added an additional casting with three bearings in it that the pump screws into....all the belt wrap pressure is absorbed by those bearings..... The big problem is that part of the front drive sticks out 2.5" from the rest of the unit....Humm!!!.....On most applications there would be enough room and this wouldn't matter......But.....



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[kwhizz]

Time to slip it in and see what other problems are going to come up.... My concerns are the transmission cross member.........Exhaust manifolds.....getting the engine as close as possible to the firewall yet still having enough clearance for the harness plugs for the high pressure pump......

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Wow!!!...... Transmission cross member (modified in the past for the 700R4) bolted right up to the trans mount....... Clearance with the firewall perfect.....Supplied exhaust manifolds look like they were made for this swap

I know this is too perfect and I'm sure other problems will come up but we dodged many bullets till this point

[camcojb]

Nice when you don't have to completely "hot rod" something. :thumbsup:

[andrewb70]

Looking good Ken!

It fits perfectly.

Are you doing an OEM ECU or Holley EFI?

Andrew

[kwhizz]

OEM.

[kwhizz]

Next issue to deal with......We have the A/C condenser mounted to the stock position on the core support.... I was planning mounting the supercharger intercooler between the condenser and the radiator...... ...Now I have 7 1/2" between the core support and the Supercharger drive pulley......minus the 2 1/2" stick out of the power steering pulley....5" of space to work with for Intercooler, Radiator, and Electric Fan......Here we go.....In mocking it up with the original radiator to see what I had to work with..... another problem came up..... It became apparent that I would not be able to move the radiator back at all as the throttle body was positioned to where the 4" rubber elbow was just going to fit with the stock position.......Hummmmm!!!!!
So...After agonizing over this issue I came to the conclusion that the intercooler had to mounted front of the core support.......... I found one that is 22 x 10.5 x 1 3/4" thick........To get it to fit I have to eliminate the stock hood latch assy and (until I get it I won't know for sure) trim away the bottom lip on the Grill to clear......I also ordered a Volkswagen Beetle hood latch (which I always used on my street rod projects) assy and I hope I can that to work otherwise we will have to use Hood Pins which I really don't want to do...... Wiating for parts now

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[Marcellus]

That is going to be awesome.

[andrewb70]

Ken,

I see you have vacuum assisted brakes. Does the LT4 installation guide discuss a possible vacuum port to use? Maybe a Bosch iBooster would be an option.

Andrew

[kwhizz]

Ken,

I see you have vacuum assisted brakes. Does the LT4 installation guide discuss a possible vacuum port to use? Maybe a Bosch iBooster would be an option.

Andrew


Yes....The one that is shown at the top of the throttle body....

Ken

[HEEP]

I have always enjoyed your builds. Looking forward to seeing how you work through these minor issues. Thanks for posting and explaining.

Bill

[Jimbo1367]

Man that’s a beautiful car. Perfect color too! It’s going to rip with that LT4

[CHJNCSU]

Great color!

[kwhizz]

Finally made some more progress...... Got all the fittings I needed to get the new gas tank installed....With the old tank out you can see the Quality of the rear end modifications done by Frame-up Wheelworks in Beach Park, Ill.......9" Ford rear along with Detroit Speed 4 Link and Coil overs........they also mini-tubbed the rear along with adding frame connectors.......So it is better suited now to handle a little more H.P........Here are some pic'shttps://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1443x1082q70/923/w1DRhs.jpg

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[TomM]

Looking great as usual Ken....

T,

[OLDFLM]

Rick's Restomod tank?

And no cushions on those jackstands?

[kwhizz]

Rick's Restomod tank?

And no cushions on those jackstands?


Yes........Ricks resto tank !!!!

[Jimbo1367]

Ken,
Are Rick’s Tanks- Retro tank that much cheaper than their SS tanks?

Thanks,
Jim

[kwhizz]

Ken,
Are Rick’s Tanks- Retro tank that much cheaper than their SS tanks?

Thanks,
Jim


Yes.......about half the cost

[Jimbo1367]

Thanks Ken. You always build my bucket list cars , lol. I totally love the DSE pcs.

[kwhizz]

Had a problem with the Image hosting site......Think I got it figured out finally......So....I received the new radiator and put it in to see what the next set of problems that are going to pop up were......LOL.... Very limited room for anything.. The Throttle body with elbow is 1/2" away from the Radiator.....The Electric fan has about 1" of clearance.....I have to see about moving the A/C condenser behind the core support and getting the Heat exchanger to fit in front of the core support is going to be an issue........But...In the meantime I finished the air inlet tube ........More pic's to come

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[camcojb]

Real estate runs out fast on those cars. :thumbsup:

[Stielow]

Ken looking good!

[Cramer4918]

Making some great progress!

Are you keeping the same stance and wheel/tire combo?

[kwhizz]

Making some great progress!

Are you keeping the same stance and wheel/tire combo?


Yes.....

[kwhizz]

Getting to the part I have dreaded for a while....... Now that all the physical parameters are known.......Time to pull the engine out and install the wiring harnesses and see what other issues are going to pop up.......

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This is where patience is going to enter the picture.....Look at the size of the main harness ........ Hope there is room left in that 1 lb. bag to get this 10 lbs in there...

[Cramer4918]

Yes.....

Nice! It is going to be a sweet ride for sure!

[waynieZ]

I never realized how close the grill was to the radiator support until I saw these pictures. Wow.

[kwhizz]

I never realized how close the grill was to the radiator support until I saw these pictures. Wow.

Yep......It "IS" a major problem and took the wind out of my sails for a while....I'm going on it again but I can't configure everything the way its supposed to be......I'll have more updates coming soon....all I needed was another inch..... But...It is what it is....

Ken

[NAPA 68]

I'm sure you have seen this Ken. Looks as though they are making some products to help with packaging.

https://roadstershop.com/galleries/1967-nova/

[kwhizz]

It's been a while as I have had some issues with getting pictures off my phone and into the web hosting sites ..... Finally got it figured out (I think)....LOL....Anyhow, I had some issues getting a Heat Exchanger to work in the space I had available....I ended up buying two different ones that I thought I could get to fit.....Ended up trimming the inner grill lips and no matter what I did I could either get the Intercooler to fit or the A/C condenser...but not both....So...I kept looking and looking at what was available..... I found a motorcycle engine oil cooler that looked like it would fit.... It was small enough to work with the taper of the grill.......Humm!!!..... so I bought another one and mocked them up on either side of the hood latch assy and installed the A/C condenser and everything just barely fit......I had to modify the heck out of them but they fit.....they are on the small side and don't know yet if the cooling will be sufficient but my only other option was putting one of the larger one under the car with fans blowing thru it......Gonna try this and see how it works....https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1472x1104q70/924/4aeUob.jpg

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[kwhizz]

As you can see there isn't much room left for anything ........Just enough for things to fit....here's a pic of the drivers side showing the power steering reservoir and the coolant tank for the supercharger coolant system...

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The Air Intake tube just clears the Radiator.........Everything just fits....

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The ECM just fits also..... Still have to clean up the old wiring..

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[Steve68]

10lbs in the 1/2 bag,

Those are tight cars,

[ProTouring442]

No fan shroud and only one fan? I hope it’s something that pulls a lot of air. Honestly I don’t see that being an effective cooling strategy.

Don

Yeah, those little fans don't pull that much. I agree wholeheartedly.

[kwhizz]

No fan shroud and only one fan? I hope it’s something that pulls a lot of air. Honestly I don’t see that being an effective cooling strategy.

Don


I didn't have any room to do anything else ........The Holley power steering pump sticks out 2.5" and took away any room left for dual fans..... I know that could be a problem ...The fan that I put in is a 16" fan...the car is going to the exhaust shop next Monday and after that I will be able to drive the car and see what the next issues are......A shroud will definitely be in the future......Got my fingers crossed....

Ken

[kwhizz]

Good and another minor issue today.......Again, the car is going to the exhaust shop on Monday....I put another 5 gallons of 93 Octane in the tank and started the car and let it idle for about a 1/2 hour....Temp went up to 195 and the 16" Spal fan kicked on.....The temp came right down to 185 and stayed there.....I'll have to check the fan settings on the Dakota Digital Fan controller......But the car didn't get hot......Good thing....But....The alternator worked perfectly on the initial start-up......But now it won't charge......The Alternator body is grounded correctly so I now have something to occupy my time tomorrow.... LOL....Always something !!!!!

Ken

[syborg tt]

Good and another minor issue today.......Again, the car is going to the exhaust shop on Monday....I put another 5 gallons of 93 Octane in the tank and started the car and let it idle for about a 1/2 hour....Temp went up to 195 and the 16" Spal fan kicked on.....The temp came right down to 185 and stayed there.....I'll have to check the fan settings on the Dakota Digital Fan controller......But the car didn't get hot......Good thing....But....The alternator worked perfectly on the initial start-up......But now it won't charge......The Alternator body is grounded correctly so I now have something to occupy my time tomorrow.... LOL....Always something !!!!!

Ken

Ken where you able to figure this out ??

[kwhizz]

The Holley alternator comes with a single wire harness..... After failing to get it to work I called Holley and they think the harness (that has a resistor wire in it to bring the voltage down to 7.8 volts) is bad.......a new one is on it's way....Hopefully that will solve the problem....

[kwhizz]

A little more to the story .........Last week when I took the car out for a ride to check out the cooling system and any other problems that might pop up....Remember that the Alternator wasn't working so I had the battery fully charged and I wasn't going very far...So, after driving the car a couple of miles in traffic everything was good except for the Alternator, as I was heading home all of a sudden the check engine light came on.... Now what.....I was almost home so I pulled the car in the garage and shut it off....I went back after about a 1/2 hour and started it up to see what was going on..... The check engine light was still on and the Volt meter was just above 10 volts and as I looked at the oil pressure gauge in the Dakota Digital display the oil pressure dropped to zero.....I shut it off and was freaking out.....A couple minutes later I started it again and the gauge showed "0" oil pressure.... At that point I had it and went in and didn't want anything to do with cars....Because it was a brand new engine under Warranty I called the GM tech line the next day and I was told to take the car to a local dealership and they might decide to get involved.....but because it was a old car they had no obligation to get involved.....I could see where this was going.....So, that night I was thinking about how do I figure out exactly what was going on.....So I went out and bought a manual Oil Pressure gauge and hooked it up.....Hit the Key and Boom...60 lbs pressure.....Hummmm!!!......Shut it off and put the Battery charger on....Let it charge to it was full and I disconnected the battery cables.......Hooked them back up again and started the car and the check engine light was off and the oil pressue gauge showed the same pressure as the manual gauge.....Hummm!!!.....Then it dawns on me that the problems all started because of the low voltage situation that happened when I was driving the car.......Thru a fault into the system.....I'm still waiting for the new harness to arrive from Holley to get the Alternator working...... But... we had a big car show in Kenosha and my grandson wanted to drive his car there.......So I fully charged the battery and took my fully charged Battery Jumper and hooked it up to the battery in the trunk of the car....Even though the show was only a couple of miles away he basically now had two batteries supplying power to is car.....It never ends with this car stuff......Here's a picture of the car at the showhttps://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1463x1097q70/924/xjc0zR.jpg

[camcojb]

Love that car!

[kwhizz]

Finally got the new harness from Holley......Before I put it in I took the Alternator back to the Alternator shop to be checked out again....when he put it on the test rig and hooked it up with a standard 4 pin plug everything checked out O K except he said the red light didn't come on before he started the test......I asked what red light, he replied that it was the red light in the dash cluster that turns off when the alternator starts charging and if it quits working in a normal dash the light would come on and let you know it wasn't charging.......After thinking about it with my limited knowledge about how these things work I thought that maybe there was a problem with internal regulator in the alternator.......So... When I re-installed the alternator and put in the new harness and it still didn't charge.........I called Holley and asked if I could order a new regulator just to see if that was the issue......I was told they don't sell replacement parts......So.... I ordered a new Alternator.....Should be here tomorrow...Just want the problem to go away as I am sick of this simple problem that is so complicated..Got my fingers crossed

[ScotI]

Finally got the new harness from Holley......Before I put it in I took the Alternator back to the Alternator shop to be checked out again....when he put it on the test rig and hooked it up with a standard 4 pin plug everything checked out O K except he said the red light didn't come on before he started the test......I asked what red light, he replied that it was the red light in the dash cluster that turns off when the alternator starts charging and if it quits working in a normal dash the light would come on and let you know it wasn't charging.......After thinking about it with my limited knowledge about how these things work I thought that maybe there was a problem with internal regulator in the alternator.......So... When I re-installed the alternator and put in the new harness and it still didn't charge.........I called Holley and asked if I could order a new regulator just to see if that was the issue......I was told they don't sell replacement parts......So.... I ordered a new Alternator.....Should be here tomorrow...Just want the problem to go away as I am sick of this simple problem that is so complicated..Got my fingers crossed

Is the Holley stuff proprietary & not GM late model based so you could use a local parts store alternator or regulator?

[kwhizz]

Is the Holley stuff proprietary & not GM late model based so you could use a local parts store alternator or regulator?

I don't know, but I'm going to go back to the alternator shop today and have him take it apart and see.......If he can use one off the shelf and it works I will send the new one back.......

With all the issues I had with this swap and this simple issue (which should be a Non-Issue) ended up being the biggest and most time consuming problem...

[dhutton]

Are you referring to the Holley alternator harness that is a single yellow wire? It’s just a simple 270 ohm resistor if it is. The other end should be connected to switched 12 volts. You can test the harness with an ohmmeter. It should read 270 ohms between the two ends of the yellow wire.

Don

[kwhizz]

Are you referring to the Holley alternator harness that is a single yellow wire? It’s just a simple 270 ohm resistor if it is. The other end should be connected to switched 12 volts. You can test the harness with an ohmmeter. It should read 270 ohms between the two ends of the yellow wire.

Don

Finally figured it out.....Took the Alternator to the shop again along with the Holley harness ........ he used the Holley harness added 12 volt power to the harness......put the alternator to the test and Bingo 15 volts...Again he asked me how I had it wired up......told him keyed 12 volt power right into the harness...With the key on the connection check 12 volts into the harness.....So...He tells to check everything in the failed condition......Checked again (12 Volts) and started the car.....No charging so I check the voltage at the harness connection and it said "0" volts......ended up the wire I tied into had 12 volts power till the engine started then it dropped power......Don't know how or why......I changed to a different keyed power source and started the car and Bingo....15 volts.....everything is working perfectly now.......Sheesh !!!!!!!.... Drove the car about 50 miles and temp stayed at 185 and alternator charged perfectly......This Car stuff is hard sometimes........LOL

[camcojb]

:thumbsup:

[dhutton]

For future reference any pink wire will be ignition switched 12 volts.

Don

[Cramer4918]

I’m glad you were able to get it figured out. It always seems like the small things in the end that take the most time and give the most frustration.

I am wiring mine up following the info from Dirty Dingo https://www.dirtydingo.com/shop/mobile_pages.php?CDpath=4&pID=108

I bought a 4-wire harness and am using the C & D wires since I do not have a warning lamp. I also want it to sense the draw when my fans kick on.

How does your ride feel with the new setup?

[kwhizz]

I’m glad you were able to get it figured out. It always seems like the small things in the end that take the most time and give the most frustration.

I am wiring mine up following the info from Dirty Dingo https://www.dirtydingo.com/shop/mobile_pages.php?CDpath=4&pID=108

I bought a 4-wire harness and am using the C & D wires since I do not have a warning lamp. I also want it to sense the draw when my fans kick on.

How does your ride feel with the new setup?


Insane.......More than enough power for a street car.......Yet, keep your foot out of it and it rides and drives very good !!!!!!

Ken

[Cramer4918]

Insane.......More than enough power for a street car.......Yet, keep your foot out of it and it rides and drives very good !!!!!!

Ken

Sweet!! Just how it should be! Very happy for you! :thumbsup:

[kwhizz]

Update.......No pictures but everything is finished......A/C charged and works perfectly.......Had a couple water leaks, all fixed.........then the car went for Tuning........Larry at ASSC did a great job.......he had some issues that he resolved getting the 4L70E trans computer and ECM to work together......The biggest issue we had is when driving the car normal everything is perfect.....But.....when he got the car on the Dyno, and put it under load.....the 2 small intercoolers (all I could fit in the space available) weren't enough to keep the AIT under control and the ECM pulled timing from the engine due to the water getting hot..........even with that the car made 544H.P. at the tires.....Since it's just going to be a street car I think it will be fine the way it is........my only other option is to put another intercooler under the car with a fan........

Ken

[camcojb]

:thumbsup:

[kwhizz]

Pulled into the parking lot at the shop today and seen this beater in the lot.....It gets driven as it should......Runs and drives great......


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1472x1104q70/924/8HrlmN.jpghttps://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1472x1104q70/923/jaZWoa.jpg

[WSSix]

It's a great looking car!