Lateral-g project car on a budget.

[3kidsnotime]

I had an idea and emailed our Administrator Scott, He and I thought it would be a neat idea to have a project car that the every guy with some skill could build, His final lets ask, so here we are. The idea is this a car that can be built on a budget most people here have a family and some times the dream car is just too far away from the truth, But lets take a clean buyable car not a 69 Camaro or a 70 Chevelle That kills the budget from the start, Lets set a budget and a platform where the car can be built from, Each step will be detailed as far as cost and how to do it youself, With pics and sorces and total cost of each step, And also each member can put their input in as were we go as far as engine what do we do with our budget every one sends an email we take a poll on each step and thats what we do The color of the car the same we take a poll and so on. Remember this car is not a blown 1000hp this is a car every one can build and also to show and or help first timers. Also a clean good looking handling car with lets say 350 425 hp, The budget I wanted to say 10 grand but 15 is a more realistic idea. Lets do a hard evaluation of the project at 10 but cap at 15K, I think we could build a nice car at that. I will supply the car the cash and labor, I ask of Scott to help with all the posting and poll. So lets get some input on the idea good or bad. I dont want to hear we cant build a car with that amount of money but what can we do. So here it is its up to you YES or NO

[Musclerodz]

Sound like a good idea to me. Lets see, "F" body, second gen firebird, "X" body, Pontiac Ventura, "G" body, 78-82 Malibu. Does it have to be a car? How about a 67-72 chevy truck? any one of those can be bought for $2500 or less drivable in decent shape. Fuel injection also drives the price way up so I would plan on carburating it until most the car is finalized. A detailed list would take some time so this would need to be broke down into smaller steps as we go along. The main thing will picking the vehicle besides cost is the availablilty of aftermarket parts and interchangability of factory stuff.

Mike

[tyoneal]

Neat Idea:

How about fixing up a 1965 Riviera.

They can be found relatively cheap,
They have Killer lines and no pollution standards.
350-425 hp would be easy with a 425 Nailhead.

For the looks, stance and lines, I think they are under priced compared to many other car that just look bland.

4 Seats, enough for a family.
Lots of parts available.

What do you think?

Is this what you were looking for?

tyoneal

[JayR]

Great idea! I can't wait to see what happens and look forward to following along. As much as I hate to say it, for the sake of budget, you should probably go with a Chevy or at least a GM car with a strong motor that doesn't need rebuilt and would respond to a simple cam/carb/intake/exhaust swap.
There's lots of great aftermaket suspension/brake upgrades available for the previously mentioned GM 2nd gen F, 2nd and 3rd gen X, and G bodies and all are good lookers when done right. If you do an F or X body, you could borrow all the stuff learned from PHR's Project g-28 so that would be a big head start.

As much as I love Rivieras, I think it's too big, heavy and rare to be a good g-machine and I don't know that the aftermarket GM A-body stuff bolts on.

I say start scouring the Auto Trader and Craigslist in a radius you're willing to travel and put your findings to a vote.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Beast2831]

Let's do it! I like the 2nd gen F body idea. This sounds like it would be a fun thing for everyone and also help those who are still learning. :thumbsup:

[G-Body]

Sounds like a great platform for a G-Body car 84 olds or monte etc everythings available easy to work on and still plentiful and would be differnet and kick ass looking

[Hdesign]

This sounds really cool. I think it can definitely be done with those constraints if we start off with the right platform and get creative! My vote is for either a 80's g-body (there's a million of them for short money) or 3rd gen F-body. They're probably what everyone will flock to anyway once all the 60s steel is gone or uber-uber expensive. I'm partial to the g-bodies since I had 5 of them!

[black2002ls]

this is an awesome idea

[XcYZ]

Jeff (3kidsnotime) and I been talking, and he wants this to be a fully documented budget build that will be covered on our website. What I plan on doing is create a webpage(s) just for the build then have it link to an ongoing thread here on the forums - a blog of sorts. That way, the project will have a dedicated URL and will be easier to find, add pictures to, and follow the progress with, etc, yet still be interactive. I think this is a cool idea and I hope it plays out the way we hope it does.

I talked to Jason Rushforth, and he thinks it would be cool to have the designers on Lateral-g come up with their own designs for the car and then we'd all vote on our favorite.

What do you guys think? Would this be an interesting addition to the site?

Here is the project car:

[black2002ls]

I like the idea of utilizing active members. Especially the design idea, Full interactive build!

[3kidsnotime]

The poll is looking good, Ill tell you about the project car. One owner 72 Cutlass S Purchased from the original owners daughter for $2,500.00 The car has minimal body damge and original paint nothing hidden, 140,000 miles 350 runs drives perfect passed im and inspection with flying colors. The Cutlass has good lines and parts are affordable, So where do we go keep up with the input and voting, A lets hear some names Its going to need one Thanks Jeff

[ottatyme]

Now this is a killer idea!! ...and being an Olds, well, you had me at Cutlass.
(...OK, and being a cheap bastard, I have ideas.)

[Hdesign]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/dabanj6/brilliant.jpg

[ottatyme]

OK, then... as we discussed in a couple emails... a few good points were brought up, namely: What are we looking at, deadline-wise (being kinda slammed right now will make this a late-night effort)? I'm in, not only for the fun factor, but also as Jason pointed out, it'll be great to give something back to the community.... and besides, working with the talent pool here is icing on the cake!

[Musclerodz]

The poll is looking good, Ill tell you about the project car. One owner 72 Cutlass S Purchased from the original owners daughter for $2,500.00 The car has minimal body damge and original paint nothing hidden, 140,000 miles 350 runs drives perfect passed im and inspection with flying colors. The Cutlass has good lines and parts are affordable, So where do we go keep up with the input and voting, A lets hear some names Its going to need one Thanks Jeff
Money is right and the platform couldn't be better for parts support. How invloved of a project will this be? Frame off or cosmetic and mechanical restoration while keeping it semi-drivable?

Mike

[3kidsnotime]

Mike These are some great questions, At this point frame off or not Im not sure we need to not forget our budget and the point as well to show what we can do also full interactive of members when things get underway frame off or not to frame off will be a question, we need to get a baseline down first of funds and what the obvious items are going to cost. I dont feel we need to media blast the car it might be going a little too far, and well its quite clean, I dont want it to go overboard on the project lets keep it some what simple but above average, when things get rolling there will be very detailed photos of each process done.



Jeff

[Hdesign]

Do the quarters need to be replaced or just patched in small areas?

[Payton King]

great idea and looking forward for the project to unfold

[3kidsnotime]

No major sheet metal work is needed, The focus is on a clean original start point, floors are spotless small amount of rust in lower rh quarter, Right front fender will be replaced in the project and im sure a OAI hood will be installed.

[Steve Chryssos]

It's a great idea. Just remember that democracy can be a double edged sword. "Too many cooks spoil the broth...." and all that. At a point, it will be important to respect the wishes and preferences of the person who is actually spending all the money and doing all the work. Let him have the final say on parts that are discussed.

[JayR]

Since this is a budget, I'd keep it on the frame and since the emphasis around here is on turning and stopping, I'd start pricing bolt-on suspension upgrades and maybe a junkyard brake swap from late F-body or Corvette. Then some bolt-ons for the motor like i mentioned before, carb/intake/headers/exhaust
Maybe check the classifieds here and at "the other site" for any A-body stuff as well as Olds forums for motor stuff.
Doing one mod at a time and following it through would keep it affordable and from being torn apart for months at a time and make it interesting to follow along with. You could also test-drive and evaluate each modification.

Since it's a Cutlass S, how about S Curves for a name?

[3kidsnotime]

Jason I feel your on the correct path, I also caint wait and see the designs. Also we need some input on a name, so lets get some ideas

[XcYZ]

Whats the total budget, not counting the cost of the car?

[Rob07002]

Whats the total budget, not counting the cost of the car?

Well that depends, if this were Monster Garage you would get about $157,348,730,537,550,357.23 in freebies!

I say $15,000 that would make it both realistic yet challenging.

[MaxHarvard]

I voted yes, because if you can get deals through friends... barter for work/parts.. do a lot of it yourself, you can really cut the cost on building a really nice ride. Also, starting with a non "desired" car... meaning, ones that dont go for $100,000 wrecked, is also a good way to start i feel. Besides, seeing really nice odd balls are fun! :D

Mine cost around $24,XXX to build, including the cost of the car.

[3kidsnotime]

At first I was thinking 10 grand, but now im thinking 15, Lets make a hard workout on the car at 10 and then have some fun withe the other 5 That might make things interesting

[XcYZ]

I think $15k is good. Have you made of "wish list" of parts, such as an overdrive tranny, the motor, wheels, brakes, paint, etc.

[3kidsnotime]

I have some good ideas, But im working on a budget break down for each area of the car, I think a break down is better

[BThibodeaux]

Great idea! The Cutless you have chosen is a perfect platform for this project. I look forward to participating. :thumbsup:

When you say that you will be supplying the labor, is that all labor including paint, body and interior? If so, you should be able to do a lot for the $15K.

[Chaser]

aw crap, im already getting carried away :lol:
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3452/olds2copyyu7.jpg

[ottatyme]

Since this is a budget, I'd keep it on the frame and since the emphasis around here is on turning and stopping, I'd start pricing bolt-on suspension upgrades and maybe a junkyard brake swap from late F-body or Corvette. Then some bolt-ons for the motor like i mentioned before, carb/intake/headers/exhaust
Maybe check the classifieds here and at "the other site" for any A-body stuff as well as Olds forums for motor stuff.
Doing one mod at a time and following it through would keep it affordable and from being torn apart for months at a time and make it interesting to follow along with. You could also test-drive and evaluate each modification.

Since it's a Cutlass S, how about S Curves for a name?
Excellent points, Jason.
I'd also begin with suspension, but add replacing the body mounts with something good and stiff to help isolate the suspension. It may be extremely beneficial to make the most of junkyard swaps, as there are a ton of great factory parts waiting to be exploited. I think that a mix of great factory performance items with complimentary aftermarket stuff will make this project EXTREMELY interesting, and generate some creatiuve thought.

Attacking the project one system at a time will be a great service to anyone new to building a project, and the tech info generated alone will be invaluable. How about turning this into a "budget build book"? Hell, we publish the final build in pdf format and.... ok, a little ahead of myself here, but you can't deny the value of such documentation!

Having a background in project management automatically makes me think "schedule, schedule, schedule", and a detailed look at the disassembly and organization of this project will help all of the rookie builders... as well as creating a pre-made list of items that can be sold/bartered to further fund the project.

"S Curves" is a killer name, too.

[Derek69SS]

To make this a "realistic" budget build, include the market-value of whatever parts you use, whether you got it for a steal, or it's been in your way in the garage for the last 15 years, go by what the parts are worth. The only parts you don't add to the cost are the ones that came attached to the car when you got it.

A $10,000 budget is pretty tight, but completely feasible if you don't get too crazy with anything, and are OK with buying or re-using some existing used parts. Brakes, for example don't need to cost a fortune. 4-wheel discs for well under $1000 (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=3204). Sure they're no 13" C5s, but the budget probably can't support those.

Other ideas to help give the project some direction:

For wheels, something like a 17x8 AR "Hopster" would look good without breaking the bank, give it a Pro-Touring flavor, and they're not TTIIs.

Engine/Trans-wise, I'd stick with an Olds 350/TH350 for a cheap combo, but if it's in the budget, an LT1/4L60e is hard to beat if you want injection and O/D, gas mileage, and reliable power. It's not an olds motor, but it will bolt right in.

[Hdesign]

I like "S-curves".

Here's a couple in the vein of a budget project:
cheap Skate
Cut-le$$
Tight-pocket Rocket

As far as keeping the olds "all-olds" and rebuilding or buying another Olds engine. I tend to think that money could be saved by getting a crate carbed SBC (if we want new) and rebuilt Th350 or 400. It seems to me that there may be a sacrifice in suspension/brakes/wheels etc. if we spec an engine that inherently costs more. I'm just thinking that this forum seems more focused on the actual performance rather than the originality.

Used parts was also a great suggestion especially for brakes.

[DAWG]

a first gen camaro would be nice.
I could donate some parts for the build aswell.
god knows all the extra camaro parts ive accumulated over the years and would never use.
heck i might even throw in a 327 complete motor.
only if the car is built and sold/ raffled off and procceds go to a charity of our choosing.

[Budnik Wheels]

Hi,
This sounds like a really cool project. Please let us know if there is anyway we and our new "Lateral" wheel can help out.

Thanks,

Jason,
Travis, and Jon

[3kidsnotime]

Jason, Travis, and Jon Thanks and thanks to every one and the support on this, I will be snaping some shots tonight of our project and lets keep the ideas coming in Thanks Jeff

[Hdesign]

Is this something Steve could use in PHR....hmmmmm?

[BThibodeaux]

Jeff (3kidsnotime) and I been talking, and he wants this to be a fully documented budget build that will be covered on our website. What I plan on doing is create a webpage(s) just for the build then have it link to an ongoing thread here on the forums - a blog of sorts. That way, the project will have a dedicated URL and will be easier to find, add pictures to, and follow the progress with, etc, yet still be interactive. I think this is a cool idea and I hope it plays out the way we hope it does.

I talked to Jason Rushforth, and he thinks it would be cool to have the designers on Lateral-g come up with their own designs for the car and then we'd all vote on our favorite.

What do you guys think? Would this be an interesting addition to the site?

Here is the project car:

Scott,
This is a perfect idea, especially given all of the interest you are already seeing. Will it be possible to create sub-areas within the new webpage that would each be for suggestions/discussions related to specific areas of the build, such as design, paint and body, wheels and tires, front suspension, rear suspension, interior, etc.?

Thanks.

[customcam]

wow this is very cool :lateral:
showing all aspects in detailed form of a build is just the best for all of us
Those Lateral budniks in a 19/20 combo with some BFG G force tyres will sit very nice under their :unibrow:

[black2002ls]

I think this would make a great article/series for PHR!! Also keep in mind, I'm not sure if the parts would be compatible on some of the roundy round cars, but if there is a dirt track community near or a good parts community, you might see if someone locally is interested in the parts, that would bring a little extra cash into the project. not much but it would be some. We've got some good ideas going here. I like the LT1 idea, surely we can find one for a good price. Or the idea of the crate motor. I agree with a lot of the comments we should try and stay away from the cookie cutter style of the big wheels and flashy brakes. We should display function over form. A tight budget build that will handle with the big boys. We don't need to haul this thing in from 200 MPH we, hopefully, want it to hit the twisties and handle.

[El Seano]

I think a similar "budget build" was used awhile ago in PHR. Of course, it wasn't a community build, rather a father/son build. It was a blue nova the kid built on a $10k budget. One of his more ingenius ideas was to part out unused parts from his nova on ebay, allowing him to take his sales and purchase better parts while still staying under his $10k budget. I dont' remember what month exactly it was covered, but definately a good read. I'm definately interested to see how this goes.

[nitrorocket]

This should be a car that actually is built to perform, like a pro touring car should. Not a all show car, or tons of frills.
Big disc conversion, boneyard EFI motor, manual trans, etc. That would be neat.

[XcYZ]

I think a similar "budget build" was used awhile ago in PHR. Of course, it wasn't a community build, rather a father/son build. It was a blue nova the kid built on a $10k budget. One of his more ingenius ideas was to part out unused parts from his nova on ebay, allowing him to take his sales and purchase better parts while still staying under his $10k budget. I dont' remember what month exactly it was covered, but definately a good read. I'm definately interested to see how this goes.

Mike Cooper's Nova. :thumbsup:

www.Lateral-g.net/members/cooper

[XcYZ]

Hi,
This sounds like a really cool project. Please let us know if there is anyway we and our new "Lateral" wheel can help out.

Thanks,

Jason,
Travis, and Jon

Thanks guys. That's something that we need to take very serious. :thumbsup:

[camcojb]

Is this supposed to be a build that nearly anyone can duplicate? If so, the "freebies" and special discounts can cause issues.


You don't want it to be like Monster Garage, where they go way over budget with donated parts from sponsors. I think it'd be cool if we avoid that.

Jody

[BThibodeaux]

Forget the LT1. Getting EFI to go in any non-EFI car is guaranteed to cost both money and time not alloted to this kind of build. I agree that scrapping the Olds engine in favor of a SBC is going to bring more bang for the buck. However, just about any crate motor, including budget motors will push the budget limits. I would get a rebuilt short block from a reputable local rebuilder to start with. Of course this would mean a more careful and longer break in time due to the use of less expensive rings and bearings, but save lots of money. With desired HP in the 400 range, as long as the RPM is held to less than 6K this type of build will endure. Next go with a decent flat tappet hydraulic cam, stamped rockers, the cheapest small chambered aluminum heads (to keep detonation at bay while getting compression ratio up) to be found (no matter where they are made), and do the same for the intake manifold. I would spend a little more for the carb and either go with an Edelbrock or the stage one/two Jet. Carb problems suck. So do exhaust leak problems, but this is about fun and performance, so I would go with the cheapest full length, painted headers I could find, and just keep retorqueing the flanges until they shut up.

[BThibodeaux]

Is this supposed to be a build that nearly anyone can duplicate? If so, the "freebies" and special discounts can cause issues.


You don't want it to be like Monster Garage, where they go way over budget with donated parts from sponsors. I think it'd be cool if we avoid that.

Jody


Thanks Jody. I very, very much agree. Let's continue to focus on the original idea.

[XcYZ]

Is this supposed to be a build that nearly anyone can duplicate? If so, the "freebies" and special discounts can cause issues.


You don't want it to be like Monster Garage, where they go way over budget with donated parts from sponsors. I think it'd be cool if we avoid that.

Jody

I agree 100%.

[BThibodeaux]

This should be a car that actually is built to perform, like a pro touring car should. Not a all show car, or tons of frills.
Big disc conversion, boneyard EFI motor, manual trans, etc. That would be neat.

Big disc conversion: I like discs as much as the next guy, but how about using OE calipers with some OE style cross drilled rotors like Summit offers starting at $39 each? These would still look pretty cool behind revealing wheels like I know everyone will want, while still keeping the build within budget.

EFI: See my earlier reply.

Manual trans: While a well built auto trans would put a big damper on the PT theme, I believe this would be much cheaper while still making this car big fun to drive.

[3kidsnotime]

This is an idea I had, I set it to Scott and the members have decided, We all have our work set. I have to grind cut build asap it sounds, and Scott has to do the same on his end, I wish we were all closer, If you are near feel free to give a hand, Lets not loose focus on what this is about, I do not want to go over board on the build Lets stick to the budget and the ideas of the members, After we are finished with our goal Id like a track day Im sure I can set that up and set a date and time and all are welcome to join, After the project is done and we want more out of the car we will go there but for now Lets get busy, Just think we are going to be part of the first interactive internet car ever built!! This is a huge step, If anyone can remember project X This is your 2006 Project X

[3kidsnotime]

Only 24 hours in this almost 1000 hits in 24 hours and a member votes no!!! In the last hour, is it petty is it truth a reason if so WTF is it??? Have some balls say why!!!! Do not just vote speak your peace why no???? This project is about the members and their ideas and to voice an opinion on a build and have a chance to show first timers what to do...........Mr NO Speak and be proud of your mind set......Mr No do you own a Prius?????? I cant make it electric.........................

[tyoneal]

To All:

The Cutless sounds fun.

If it's an olds, keep it an olds.

Engine - 455 Torque Monster (You can make killer torque very easy with this motor and they are cheap. cheap, cheap. We bought a 73 Olds Custom Cruiser Staton Wagon (Running) for $300 Tranny included (400 THM) We then sold the car for scrap.

BTW: There are not many people who can tell the difference between an Olds 350 and a Olds 455 by looking at them. as the width is only about 1.5 inches different across the top!!!

Makes for a nice sleeper......

Rebuild it. Get a decent cam, rebuilt quadra-jet, match and port the intake and heads and with the stock exhaust manifolds you can get 500 ft lbs of Torque. That plenty to light up the tires, especially if you use a 3.73 gear in the rear. Hold on and Look Out!!

Plus Engine finished!


Transmission - 400 THM, shift kit (Shrifter or Manual Valve body)

Cheap parts, Bullet Proof.

Transmission finished!!

Rearend pieces are cheap in the wrecking yard. Our Station Wagon had a posi in it. (Trailer Tow Package I think) Could also use a truck rear end for some fun gears.

Spend the rest of the money on suspension, paint, tires and Wheels.

Project Finished!!

Under or within Budget and a Blast to drive

Any thoughts???

tyoneal

Give this some thought, Several of us did a 1985 Cutless this way a few years ago, it was a blast. We hosed a number of cars that underestimated us. Lots of fun!

[3kidsnotime]

Thanks Ty, This is going to be fun, with the budget set in mind and platform set, we got us a project, Remember we are all going to work togeather on this so if emails are not gotten soon Well Scott just got himself a few extra hours a day work and so did I maybee a more at that So I hope all understand what this project is going to take, Thanks Jeff

[tyoneal]

To All:

FWIW: For everyones thoughts, I think it would be a good thing if the final Car would be worth at least as much as the money going into it. It's a kind soul who will put up $15,000 (plus labor) for a group project.

Don't get me wrong, but I hate putting money and time into something and getting $.25 on the Dollar when it's sold, especially $15k worth of money. There is fun and depreciation, but unecessary money down a hole is just a waste. IMO.

Maybe it's just me, who know??

tyoneal

[Derek69SS]

Don't get me wrong, but I hate putting money and time into something and getting $.25 on the Dollar when it's sold, especially $15k worth of money. There is fun and depreciation, but unecessary money down a hole is just a waste. IMO.I dissagree, if the money is well spent on function rather than flash, and the look is just right, that 15k investment will build a car worth 20k easily, if the right attention to detail is taken - parts cleaned & painted, and under the hood clean and well detailed. You can make an engine look pretty nice without a lot of investment with a little elbow-grease and paint.

[3kidsnotime]

Derek has pretty much hit it. Part of this build is to show what you can do with what you have and not going the real big buck way, This will be a car that will work as good as it looks, attention to detail and function, When this car is completed there will be a track day, We will beat it! 15K spent with all labor in house except for interior, We will build a very nice car and I think all will be a little surprised when finished.

[pro-touring nova]

i like it, here mine,1978 chevy nova,put a330hp 350ho gm motor,200r4 trans with 2200stall, 1.25 front sway bar, and 7/8 rar sway bar,coys c5 17by7 and 17 by 8s with 225/50/17 and 255/50/17s, every thing done but the wheels and tires

[V8TV]

This going to be a cool project... coincedently, we're going to start our Olds project after SEMA. It's a similar car, and I look forward to cherry-picking some ideas off this thread! We're going Olds power and keeping the original 4-speed and carb on this one. Here's a shot of the car when it was new back in '71.

[tyoneal]

Derek and 3kidsnotime:

We are not in disagreement at all. What you are saying about picking the rights things, attention to detail, is what I was trying to say or imply (Rather poorly) as being very important.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
For instance if people picked:

A 1975 AMC Pacer, or Matador with a stock Pinto inline 4, and 25 inch spinners (spinning hubcap) wheels, topped off with a Paint job featuring, "Green Pea Soup", color, accented with, "Candy Titty Pink", Racing Stripes. An Automatic transmission out of a '52 DeSota. The totally stock Crappy Beige interior. Stock AM radio and a Cobra 26 Channel CB Radio, with 14 foot tall Chrome antenna mounted to the back bumper, and last but not least a Continental Kit in the rear with Curb Feelers all the way around. Just to show We meant business when building this car, we would put a couple of bumper stickers on the back window. One is a psycodelic "Peace" sign, and the other is, "Support Jane Fonda, A Real American".

How is that for a kick ass, 6 digit price tag, visual??

Best of all:

Total for this beautiful, "One of a Kind, Pro-Touring, Supercar"?

A mere $15,000, and 200 hrs of your labor. What a deal!
---------------------------------------------------------------

This was what I was meaning being worth $.25 on the dollar after it was finished, if choices were not properly made.

Even the project I layed out with the 455. If it was lowered, could run like a scalded Ape, handle reasonably and a knock out killer paint and detail wise, totally Anal Retentive.

Yes, Money well spent. Loads of fun, maybe even make some money. (If you don't continually do Burnouts with High Dollar tires. ;-)

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Does this make better sense??

tyoneal

[one+g]

What about a 1985-87 Buick Regal with Gnx looks, Ls1 Drivetrain Z06 brakes, 9 inch, and Ls1 Motorvation. Brakes and drivetrain would be greatest cost. My brother picked up a butt ugly faded gray regal running, driving car with only slight surface rust for 150$ that leaves 14850 to spend!!!
Just a thought. The G-body and third gen camaros are still cheap and have huge potential from a handling and weight standpoint. These can easily be found nearly anywhere in the country. I found one website with a 90 Notch mustang powered by an LS1 engine. Guy had the z already and sold remainder of both cars and claimed final outlay of 4 or 5 thousand. Ill post the link when I have some more time.

Im sure Id love whatever is decided on.

[XcYZ]

Body & Paint supplies 1700.00 all body supplies already purchased not paint
Freight damaged fender 153.00 including shipping two dings need repaired
Brakes and tall spindels 1300.00 Matts Classic Bowties Concord CA
Rear suspension 400.00
Front suspension 800.00
Springs 300.00 Hotchkis
Steering box 200.00
Sway bars 400.00
Interior 1500.00
Wheels Tires 2000.00
Engine Trans Cooling 3000.00 Low HP only 350-425
Rear end 650.00 12 bolt posi 373 swap meet alredy have
Soft trim 1500.00 Grilles chrome rubber body mounts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total dream $13903.00

[MCBparts]

Hello, its Matt with Matt's Classic Bowties. I am on board for the project and I think we can come in a little lower on the brakes/suspension. I can provide all of those parts as a package deal as I normally would. We can also try to help on the wheels/tires as we are a dealer for American Racing, Billet Specialties and Bonspeed.....American Racing being the best on the budget! We can give it our best on the rest of the parts as well. I just need a list to quote out!

Matt

[Musclerodz]

Body & Paint supplies 1700.00 all body supplies already purchased not paint
Freight damaged fender 153.00 including shipping two dings need repaired
Brakes and tall spindels 1300.00 Matts Classic Bowties Concord CA
Rear suspension 400.00
Front suspension 800.00
Springs 300.00 Hotchkis
Steering box 200.00
Sway bars 400.00
Interior 1500.00
Wheels Tires 2000.00
Engine Trans Cooling 3000.00 Low HP only 350-425
Rear end 650.00 12 bolt posi 373 swap meet alredy have
Soft trim 1500.00 Grilles chrome rubber body mounts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total dream $13903.00I would highly suggest going with Touring Classics AFX kit instead of Matt's(nothing against Matt's). Much better geometry than the "B" spindle and you get OEM C5 brakes $775 for the front, $699 for 12" rear set up. Worth the extra $175.

Front suspension seems to be partly broke down already. Of the $800, purchase SC&C Stage 1 kit upper arms which are designed to go with the AFX spindle and is $479, that leaves $320 for suspension rebuild parts. You could make up alot of the $175 here.

How nice is the interior now? Any pics?

$3000 for drivetrain could be hard to hold to unless the current drivetrain is solid and you are only doing maintenance with upgrades.

Looks like a decent start so far.

Mike

[MCBparts]

We are not doing the "b" spindle......kinda old school....we quoted the package at that price with a 2" drop spindle that is 1.5" taller than a stock spindle.....that 1300 is for a 4 wheel disc kit with the drop spindles!

[Musclerodz]

EBAY could be your friend on this project. Since anyone can purchase and potentially have the same opportunity, Any steals price wise should count just like junkyard finds.

[Musclerodz]

We are not doing the "b" spindle......kinda old school....we quoted the package at that price with a 2" drop spindle that is 1.5" taller than a stock spindle.....that 1300 is for a 4 wheel disc kit with the drop spindles!
Is that the new Heidt's spindle or whoever is making them that just came out?

Mike

[MCBparts]

In the interest of big brakes we could also do our 13"f/12" rear kit.....Front uses a PBR cast caliper with much bigger pistons than the C4/C5......The kit will be complete with Booster/Master/Prop at about $1500...all 4 wheels with drill/Slot/Zinc rotors....also uses a billet hub VS the other reusing your stock hub

[MCBparts]

Yes, we can get the Heidts or Fatman.....CPP has one too but its not any taller than stock, just a 2" drop

[youthpastor]

Can't wait to see the build! I agree most of us are on a budget and this has hit a soft spot for most of us. I'm in agreement on the keeping it all Olds, spend the money on the heads, keep it basic, but... I did spot a low mile LT-1 with harness and computer at a local yard we use lot $900 takes it- It's out of a '97 Camaro-I've see it it looks clean. My buddy has a 4L60 out of a van w/60k on it, starter and flywheel included. If he thought it was going to a good cause, a guy could pick it up for a couple hundred.

Now to really stir the pot-what are you going use to fill up the monster wheel wells 20's x 18's?-Chris

[MCBparts]

Wheels.....How about something from the billet specialties street smart line? Wheels/Tires for ABOUT 2k???

[race-rodz]

Only 24 hours in this almost 1000 hits in 24 hours and a member votes no!!! In the last hour, is it petty is it truth a reason if so WTF is it??? Have some balls say why!!!! Do not just vote speak your peace why no???? This project is about the members and their ideas and to voice an opinion on a build and have a chance to show first timers what to do...........Mr NO Speak and be proud of your mind set......Mr No do you own a Prius?????? I cant make it electric.........................


no...i dont drive a prius, while i do like the whole idea of a group influenced budget build, the major flaw i see with the whole deal is the fact you have 2500 different opinions making all of the important choices. while this somewhat works for our so called government, on an internet forum it is a different deal.

while the "polls" will ultimatley make the decisions, people will get butt-hurt because they dont agree with the group, this will turn into pissing and moaning, which will cause more pissing and moaning, and that gets old....really old. i dont visit this forum to listen to people rant and rave, i visit it for inspiration and motivation on my own projects....not to read 9+ pages of retards argueing over stupid petty BS, in a thread that started out as an innocent question or concern.

i have been visiting this site for a while, and my opinion clashes with lots of others, usually i dont say anything(unless i feel strongly about the issue) that i know will instigate a pissing match, simply because it just doesnt matter enough for me to waste my time trying to "one-up" somebody elses opinion. the above quote is a prime example, yes i voted "no", and didnt give a reason.....because it isnt important enough to express my negative concern. however, because you felt it was important enough to ask for a reason for the "no" vote, i have given it. now its time to move on, and get your project underway.....if you feel the need to repond, DON'T do it in the thread....send me a PM if you "really" feel the need to say something.

[novanutcase]

I say you use a '66 Nova for the base car.......OH!!! HEY!!! Wadda ya know?!!! I just happen to know someone that has just the car!!!!!! MEEEEEEEE!!!!

[3kidsnotime]

It's a great idea. Just remember that democracy can be a double edged sword. "Too many cooks spoil the broth...." and all that. At a point, it will be important to respect the wishes and preferences of the person who is actually spending all the money and doing all the work. Let him have the final say on parts that are discussed.


People please remember this, This is to be a fun project we can all Take a little part on and voice out opinion on, The project car has been chosen, we will stick with it. The car chosen it is to show a solid baseline, that is also affordable and still available out there, This is also a step by step project to aid with installing parts as well as engine mods and body and paint. The engine mods are going to be kept at a minimal for your every day guy after the budget car is completed, We might go to a second phase with big power.

[3kidsnotime]

I would highly suggest going with Touring Classics AFX kit instead of Matt's(nothing against Matt's). Much better geometry than the "B" spindle and you get OEM C5 brakes $775 for the front, $699 for 12" rear set up. Worth the extra $175.

Front suspension seems to be partly broke down already. Of the $800, purchase SC&C Stage 1 kit upper arms which are designed to go with the AFX spindle and is $479, that leaves $320 for suspension rebuild parts. You could make up alot of the $175 here.

How nice is the interior now? Any pics?

$3000 for drivetrain could be hard to hold to unless the current drivetrain is solid and you are only doing maintenance with upgrades.

Looks like a decent start so far.

Mike


The drive train very solid we already have the 12 bolt rear so the 3k is to show new comers what they can do with what they have, If this is a hit the car after the budget car is built. It will see big power later. Also the budget thats what it is. Its a Budget As far as Matts place That is by far the best bolt on 4 wheel disk kit with good spindles, for your everday guy and price. We are doing this to show your every day guy what he can buy and do and build, and as we all know projects go over so it has overages figured in. Thanks for all the input from everyone Jeff

[nitrorocket]

If people don't want the old school parts and dated performance stuff, staying with the stock motor would be a bad move. Ls1 swap makes the most sense. For $3k, you can do an LS1 swap complete. At least the Ls1 could handle track days time and time again without getting hurt. Plus it will shave a ton of unwanted weight off the nose of the car. That will help handling A lot!

[3kidsnotime]

If people don't want the old school parts and dated performance stuff, staying with the stock motor would be a bad move. Ls1 swap makes the most sense. For $3k, you can do an LS1 swap complete. At least the Ls1 could handle track days time and time again without getting hurt. Plus it will shave a ton of unwanted weight off the nose of the car. That will help handling A lot!

You are correct. The price im not sure on, depending on what I can find locally, Im going to hold the engine and trans for last on the project as far as build, And depending on how much we spent the rest will be for engine and trans.

[nitrorocket]

For quite a while I was buying and re-selling LS1 motors. :unibrow: I can see if my connection is still intact. Generally I can get a 2000+ ls1 motor from pcm to pan for about $2000 turn key. :D This all depends on what he has at the time though. For the trans. use the stock trans for now. It will get the job done untill some type of overdrive is decided on.

I might also recomment scoping out a totaled F-Body. They can be had for less then $4000 and include tons of parts including brakes and motor/trans! That could save some HUGE dollars from a little "smart" shopping! :D

[3kidsnotime]

Keep me posted on what you find all ideas are always welcome and wanted

[Bandit]

Here's a formula I suggested to a new member over at pro-touring.com who was wondering what to start with. I relied heavily on personal experience for this. And I agree that $10K is a VERY tight budget, but of course anything's possible with some hook-ups.

"Why not get ahold of a 2nd-gen Camaro, or Firebird/Trans am?
I have 2 Trans ams, a '79 and an '80, and owned an '80 Camaro previously.

There are several great things about these cars as a base project car: they are still fairly cheap to get ahold of (for now!), they have decent suspensions, brakes, and aerodynamics from the factory, and parts are cheap and plentiful.

You are right, I think, about Chevy being a smart choice for the powertrain, I am amazed at the plethora of cheap and potent crate motors out there. You could go with a Chevy powertrain in either the camaro or firebird.

A good formula would be as follows:
Solid 70-81 f-body (assuming engine is stock or garbage like most out there, and you will toss it) $3000
Chevy crate 350/383 stroker/400hp $3000
Budget TH350 tranny $1000
(upgrade to OD trans for $1000-1500 more)
Hotchkis/GW suspension/new shocks $1500

Assuming you do the work yourself, this puts you in the $8K range, and you still have money left over for a set of killer wheels and tires!! Of course this is an optimistic estimate, and would require some research and luck to accomplish. More likely, you will have at least 15K invested for a good all-around streeter, once you factor in all the little stuff you forgot about.

My 2 cents: Don't buy anything with any significant amount of rust or frame/subframe damage.
Don't have an engine shop rebuild your motor if you go with a chevy 350-- go straight for a crate. Unless you have the inside scoop on a great machine shop with a perfect reputation, it's just not worth it IMHO."

Paul

[Musclerodz]

The drive train very solid we already have the 12 bolt rear so the 3k is to show new comers what they can do with what they have, If this is a hit the car after the budget car is built. It will see big power later. Also the budget thats what it is. Its a Budget As far as Matts place That is by far the best bolt on 4 wheel disk kit with good spindles, for your everday guy and price. We are doing this to show your every day guy what he can buy and do and build, and as we all know projects go over so it has overages figured in. Thanks for all the input from everyone Jeff
If Matt is a buddy of yours and want to use him, great. But, the package being considered offers no improvements to suspension geometry other than adding rear disc brakes. Touring Classics AFX kit includes the NEW AFX spindle developed by American Touring Specialties that uses a C5 Corvette bearing hub, C5 Corvette brakes front and rear, and when coupled with SC&C SPC adjustable upper arms, corrects many geometry issues associated with "A" body platforms. This kit can be purchased by your everyday guy right from Touring Classics and the spindles and arms have been EXTENSIVELY discussed on this site and others with overwhelming postive reponses. As Race Rodz had clarified why he voted the way he did, it seems you already have your mind made up on certain products by your response to my post which begs to ask why the poll? While this is a great idea on paper, I think Race-rodz, Steevo, and a couple others have the right frame of mind. I think I will sign off this thread and let it run its coarse. if you fell you need to PM me regarding this, please do so, I will be happy to talk further.

Mike

[3kidsnotime]

If Matt is a buddy of yours and want to use him, great. But, the package being considered offers no improvements to suspension geometry other than adding rear disc brakes. Touring Classics AFX kit includes the NEW AFX spindle developed by American Touring Specialties that uses a C5 Corvette bearing hub, C5 Corvette brakes front and rear, and when coupled with SC&C SPC adjustable upper arms, corrects many geometry issues associated with "A" body platforms. This kit can be purchased by your everyday guy right from Touring Classics and the spindles and arms have been EXTENSIVELY discussed on this site and others with overwhelming postive reponses. As Race Rodz had clarified why he voted the way he did, it seems you already have your mind made up on certain products by your response to my post which begs to ask why the poll? While this is a great idea on paper, I think Race-rodz, Steevo, and a couple others have the right frame of mind. I think I will sign off this thread and let it run its coarse. if you fell you need to PM me regarding this, please do so, I will be happy to talk further.

Mike

This is about spending 15 grand to build a car on a step by step basis, From start to finish. It has to look good and work. But only cost 15 grand in parts. Jody Had a great comment in the early part on this, And he is true and correct there is a concept on it and we need to stick with it, If we all work on it it will be fun, we will take it to the track and beat it, We are not building the perfect car we are building a car for 15K That im sure will work better than most think and also look great. There has to be a happy medium in all parts and ideas, Look at it this way if it works 3/4 as good as a 70's Trans am series car. It will be the funest car we have driven, Sometimes things dont have to be so trendy to be correct.

[V8TV]

Keep in mind you can get a decent running take-out 5.3 liter truck Gen III iron block motor complete for under a grand from late model salvage yards... this might be a great lo-buck way to go with Gen III power!

[3kidsnotime]

Sound like a good idea to me. Lets see, "F" body, second gen firebird, "X" body, Pontiac Ventura, "G" body, 78-82 Malibu. Does it have to be a car? How about a 67-72 chevy truck? any one of those can be bought for $2500 or less drivable in decent shape. Fuel injection also drives the price way up so I would plan on carburating it until most the car is finalized. A detailed list would take some time so this would need to be broke down into smaller steps as we go along. The main thing will picking the vehicle besides cost is the availablilty of aftermarket parts and interchangability of factory stuff.

Mike
This is what im talking about this quote, I started an idea, and never strayed away from that idea, This is the very first post from the idea, And great, Lets not get over drawn that we forget what this is about, This is your first Quote stay with it and the project...........

[camcojb]

Jeff,


Maybe start a new thread outlining the car you're going to use. There's a lot of people who are responding that don't know you already have the project car picked out, and most won't read through the 9 pages to find out.

Then we can get started on planning that particular build.

Jody

[3kidsnotime]

Jeff,


Maybe start a new thread outlining the car you're going to use. There's a lot of people who are responding that don't know you already have the project car picked out, and most won't read through the 9 pages to find out.

Then we can get started on planning that particular build.

Jody


Good call I will work on it today.

[ProTouring442]

Jeff (3kidsnotime) and I been talking, and he wants this to be a fully documented budget build that will be covered on our website. What I plan on doing is create a webpage(s) just for the build then have it link to an ongoing thread here on the forums - a blog of sorts. That way, the project will have a dedicated URL and will be easier to find, add pictures to, and follow the progress with, etc, yet still be interactive. I think this is a cool idea and I hope it plays out the way we hope it does.

I talked to Jason Rushforth, and he thinks it would be cool to have the designers on Lateral-g come up with their own designs for the car and then we'd all vote on our favorite.

What do you guys think? Would this be an interesting addition to the site?

Here is the project car:


Great starting point! I will volunteer time right off the bat. Now, I see that I am very far from where the project is, so that might be problematic. However...

I'd be happy to volunteer to paint the car.

As I have a '72 442 (Cutlass) I may have a couple of parts laying around that I would be willing to donate if needed.

I can offer advice specific to the car.

I would be willing to write some of the articles for the web page.

If any of these things are needed, just let me know. I am sure there are others who would be willing to help as well.

Lovin' this idea!
Bill
'72 442 "Inamorata"