Shady Shop

[two-piece]

Hey guys I’ve got a issue with a shop and need some advice. I found a shop that I wanted to get some work done at. After talking to the owner o decided to get my name on the list and sent a deposit to him. After 2 weeks some things changed amd I decided to put things on hold with shop and asked for deposit back. No contract had been signed and I even offered to pay him for his time in coming up with the quote. Nowhere in all our conversations was a non refundable deposit discussed. The appt is 5 months away so no issues with costing him any customers. I’ve obviously learned a few things from this interaction and will do things different next time. Has anybody had any luck getting money back in this kind of situation? The business is a LLC out of Alabama. Thanks for the help.

[BMR Sales]

Deposit months before getting a car worked on. That's a new one for me!

[Flash68]

Yikes! How large of a deposit are we talking here?

[130fe]

Did you pay with a credit card? Might be able to get it back that way. Deposit for a spot 5 months away? That’s insane. Good luck.

[ADY]

If the deposit was via check, put a stop payment on it immediately. If via credit card, dispute the charge as the shop will not have any paperwork to back up claims it's a valid charge.

[Spiffav8]

The previous advise was spot on. It’s a paper work trail for sure. Good luck.

[two-piece]

So that one of the spots I screwed up, paid the deposit thru PayPal friends and family with my balance. I have no recourse thru PayPal or a credit card company. The deposit that far out was to hold a spot on schedule. Once again there are a few spots a screwed up on and will learn from moving fwd. The deposit amount was $1,900. Seems the only way I can possibly get whole is by filing in small claims court. Ill have to go to that state to deal with it.

Now that I know this guy isn't going to pay me back because he's a good guy Ill let everyone know the shop. Casados Design out of Alabaster Al. Guys name is Adrian Casados. I did some research on the shop and he appears to do very nice work.

[dhutton]

I follow him on Instagram. He is a talented metal shaper and fabricator.

Don

[two-piece]

I follow him on Instagram. He is a talented metal shaper and fabricator.

Don

Yes he is. But he also thinks it’s cool to not refund a deposit. I was a cool as could be about it. Offered to pay him for quote time. Now he’s just ignoring me and blocked me on IG. This thread is the 1st negative thing I’ve said about him. Just doesn’t make sense.

[Vegas69]

Keep pestering him and maybe the stress and distraction will cause him to make you go away with your $1900. (Calls, texts, emails, mail, etc)I'd start there and if that doesn't work after a bit, then make sure he knows you are taking him to small claims court. "I'd rather work this out with you outside small claims court as I know you are busy and so am I, but I will go to that measure if forced. It seems to make more sense for us to go our separate ways and move on with you refunding me X. What do you think about a $1500 refund? It seems fair and reasonable for both parties. With your busy schedule, I'm sure you'll find somebody to fill my spot in the next five months."

[dhutton]

Yes he is. But he also thinks it’s cool to not refund a deposit. I was a cool as could be about it. Offered to pay him for quote time. Now he’s just ignoring me and blocked me on IG. This thread is the 1st negative thing I’ve said about him. Just doesn’t make sense.

He is also pretty cocky imho. He also just moved into a new shop and I’m guessing he may not have the cash to give you a refund. Don’t assume he tucked it in the bank. He most likely spent it....

Don

[two-piece]

He is also pretty cocky imho. He also just moved into a new shop and I’m guessing he may not have the cash to give you a refund. Don’t assume he tucked it in the bank. He most likely spent it....

Don

That’s what I’m thinking. I told him I’d work with him but he’s not even responding anymore.

[ADY]

**UPDATE - Sorry, missed your post saying you paid via "friends and family"**

Did the shop send you a request for payment via Paypal or did you indicate the payment was for goods? If so, Paypal does offer "Buyer Protection (https://www.paypal.com/ph/webapps/mpp/paypal-buyer-protection)" where you can file a dispute similar to a credit card.


So that one of the spots I screwed up, paid the deposit thru PayPal friends and family with my balance. I have no recourse thru PayPal or a credit card company. The deposit that far out was to hold a spot on schedule. Once again there are a few spots a screwed up on and will learn from moving fwd. The deposit amount was $1,900. Seems the only way I can possibly get whole is by filing in small claims court. Ill have to go to that state to deal with it.

Now that I know this guy isn't going to pay me back because he's a good guy Ill let everyone know the shop. Casados Design out of Alabaster Al. Guys name is Adrian Casados. I did some research on the shop and he appears to do very nice work.

[dhutton]

This why I generally refuse to use PayPal friends and family. Zero protection....

Don

[Flash68]

Did the shop send you a request for payment via Paypal or did you indicate the payment was for goods? If so, Paypal does offer "Buyer Protection (https://www.paypal.com/ph/webapps/mpp/paypal-buyer-protection)" where you can file a dispute similar to a credit card.

Payments sent via Friends and Family option are ineligible for buyer protection.

[Vegas69]

He is also pretty cocky imho. He also just moved into a new shop and I’m guessing he may not have the cash to give you a refund. Don’t assume he tucked it in the bank. He most likely spent it....

Don

Good point, Don. He may be cash flowing the business on deposits. I'd still pester him and if it goes nowhere, there is always the option to walk away and learn a lesson. Small money, small time investment. You can get more money, but you can't get more time.

[214Chevy]

Or we all could just go on IG and post how he swindled you out of $1,900 and refuses to refund you so everyone that follows him will see it. Word of mouth is the best and at times the worst type of advertisement.

[ScotI]

Or we all could just go on IG and post how he swindled you out of $1,900 and refuses to refund you so everyone that follows him will see it. Word of mouth is the best and at times the worst type of advertisement.

This. The automotive community is large & SUPPORTIVE w/the internet as the Megaphone.

It doesn't matter how talented you are if you can't work w/people. Asking for a partial refund on a deposit to hold your place in line for future work & whatever (minimal) consulting fees is not out of line. Kudos to you for understanding that. You're willing to take a reduced amount to compensate for any issues it potentially might have caused. You're putting forth goodwill for a possible future collaboration.

His not willing to @ least partially refund and/or then just ignoring a potential customer is flat-out bad for business.

[Vegas69]

Once you do that, the damage is done. A promise to do it and then if he doesn't respond with a refund, the social media blitz is on.

I can't help you as I gave up social media. HA

[dhutton]

On the other hand he busts his butt six or seven days a week turning out awesome work unlike a lot of shops who take years to get anything done. Not sure it makes sense to destroy a guy’s business over $1900. Especially when there is no written contract. It’s essentially one guys word against another’s.

Maybe just chock it up as a lesson learned rather than go nuclear.

Don

[two-piece]

On the other hand he busts his butt six or seven days a week turning out awesome work unlike a lot of shops who take years to get anything done. Not sure it makes sense to destroy a guy’s business over $1900. Especially when there is no written contract. It’s essentially one guys word against another’s.

Maybe just chock it up as a lesson learned rather than go nuclear.

Don

Oh I’ve got the proof.

[will69camaro]

On the other hand he busts his butt six or seven days a week turning out awesome work unlike a lot of shops who take years to get anything done. Not sure it makes sense to destroy a guy’s business over $1900. Especially when there is no written contract. It’s essentially one guys word against another’s.

Maybe just chock it up as a lesson learned rather than go nuclear.

Don

Not sure i understand this thought. It's the SHOPS decision to destroy his business over not paying a deposit back. This reads like victim blaming.

I 100% would do what it took to either get my deposit back (or some reduced portion understanding there was some work on the shops end for estimating purposes), OR would ensure that no one else makes the same mistake.

Too often this kind of thing happens over and over and shops get away with it because people are to quiet and nice.

[dhutton]

Not sure i understand this thought. It's the SHOPS decision to destroy his business over not paying a deposit back. This reads like victim blaming.

I 100% would do what it took to either get my deposit back (or some reduced portion understanding there was some work on the shops end for estimating purposes), OR would ensure that no one else makes the same mistake.

Too often this kind of thing happens over and over and shops get away with it because people are to quiet and nice.

I guess it is because the OP stated at no time was a non refundable deposit discussed. This implies a refundable deposit was not discussed either.

I’m not saying that he shouldn’t get it back. I’m saying that based on what I’ve seen I’m not going to participate in an online campaign to discredit the shop.

Don

[two-piece]

I guess it is because the OP stated at no time was a non refundable deposit discussed. This implies a refundable deposit was not discussed either.

I’m not saying that he shouldn’t get it back. I’m saying that based on what I’ve seen I’m not going to participate in an online campaign to discredit the shop.

Don

I can completely understand that. I am more than willing to pay him for his time. But for him to not pay me back anything is completely wrong and he should be called out on it. I’m defiantly not asking anyone to get involved in my issue. I just reached out for advice. If guys want to call him out for it then I’m grateful, if they don’t I’m equally as grateful for the advice.

[proper]

If he’s a good metal guy there should be something he could do for your project that’s worth 1900.00 and that way he doesn’t need to try and give you money back that he might not have.It doesn’t take long for some aluminium welding or fabbing an exhaust system to eat up your deposit.Just my two cents but I hope it works out for you.

[two-piece]

If he’s a good metal guy there should be something he could do for your project that’s worth 1900.00 and that way he doesn’t need to try and give you money back that he might not have.It doesn’t take long for some aluminium welding or fabbing an exhaust system to eat up your deposit.Just my two cents but I hope it works out for you.

I tried that. Although he’s 700 miles away from me. Last time we talked I said if I wasn’t getting my deposit back I’d change the scope of work we planned to eat the deposit up. Told him to call me Monday. Never heard from him, he blocked me on IG and won’t respond to calls, text or email.

[RdHuggr68]

On the other hand he busts his butt six or seven days a week turning out awesome work unlike a lot of shops who take years to get anything done. Not sure it makes sense to destroy a guy’s business over $1900. Especially when there is no written contract. It’s essentially one guys word against another’s.

Maybe just chock it up as a lesson learned rather than go nuclear.

Don

Easy to say when you didn't loose $1900.00

[dhutton]

Easy to say when you didn't loose $1900.00

I get it. It’s not an insignificant amount of money. On the other hand, what is that, roughly 20 hours of work, excluding any materials?

I’d be curious what the original scope and estimate of the work was. I’m guessing it wasn’t anything close to $1900.

Anyway, I’m clearly in the minority here. Points taken....

Don

[Flash68]

I get it. It’s not an insignificant amount of money. On the other hand, what is that, roughly 20 hours of work, excluding any materials?

I’d be curious what the original scope and estimate of the work was. I’m guessing it wasn’t anything close to $1900.

Anyway, I’m clearly in the minority here. Points taken....

Don

I hear what you are saying Don......

[cabudge09]

I tried that. Although he’s 700 miles away from me. Last time we talked I said if I wasn’t getting my deposit back I’d change the scope of work we planned to eat the deposit up. Told him to call me Monday. Never heard from him, he blocked me on IG and won’t respond to calls, text or email.

What's the name of the shop? Maybe if you bring this shop into the conversation it will resolve the issue. Tag them on social media, leave a review on their website/google, etc.

Edit: I just found the name of the shop in the thread "Casados Design out of Alabaster, AL". Are they on any of the forums? You could reach out to them that way. You still have some more avenues to possibly resolve this. If he loses business because he won't refund a portion of the deposit he might respond. Just my humble opinion.

[srode1]

I'm sympathetic to your situation for sure, not a good place to be. Out of curiosity, I went to the shop's web page and found this:

"Once the details are agreed on, paperwork signed and your deposit paid, we get our artists working on the renderings and schedule time to induct your vehicle into the work flow."

Did you see this before sending him money or was it not there? You didn't sign any paper work that included the refundability of the deposit? If not, sounds like the deposit was getting the cart in front of the horse maybe? I would guess signing the paper work comment means they / he has a standard contract that would include something about the deposit.

[two-piece]

I'm sympathetic to your situation for sure, not a good place to be. Out of curiosity, I went to the shop's web page and found this:

"Once the details are agreed on, paperwork signed and your deposit paid, we get our artists working on the renderings and schedule time to induct your vehicle into the work flow."

Did you see this before sending him money or was it not there? You didn't sign any paper work that included the refundability of the deposit? If not, sounds like the deposit was getting the cart in front of the horse maybe? I would guess signing the paper work comment means they / he has a standard contract that would include something about the deposit.

So there isn’t any kinda of rendering. He was pushing for the deposit before pw was signed because he had someone else looking for my spot. The contract says nothing about the deposit being refundable or non refundable. The only amount of work he has in my project is the quote which I offered to pay him $300 for. I never went to his website so I can’t say what was there before.

[67-ls1]

I would also post about him on blogs whenever possible. And Craigslist local. And if he blocked you on aiG, have someone else ask on IG about your deposit.
Is he on FB? Pressure him there too.

[BigBronco]

Ready to assist via social media when you are ready.

[ProTouring442]

So there isn’t any kinda of rendering. He was pushing for the deposit before pw was signed because he had someone else looking for my spot. The contract says nothing about the deposit being refundable or non refundable. The only amount of work he has in my project is the quote which I offered to pay him $300 for. I never went to his website so I can’t say what was there before.

Why did you offer to pay him "only" $300 for the quote? Perhaps the time he has spent already, plus the spot he blocked off for you, and now has no work for, is worth more than $300?

[will69camaro]

Why did you offer to pay him "only" $300 for the quote? Perhaps the time he has spent already, plus the spot he blocked off for you, and now has no work for, is worth more than $300?

He didn't cancel the month before. Guy sold him on securing a spot tells me he has no issue getting work. Cancelled MONTHS in advance. What has he done worth $300 for the quote, gotta start somewhere to come to a resolution and he didn't even get a response on that offer or a counter? The guy didn't even agree to that, he ghosted him and blocked. I'd be busy Mother Fu%&ing this dude all over the web already.

How soon we forget the example that Greg Weld (RIP) set for us.

[two-piece]

He didn't cancel the month before. Guy sold him on securing a spot tells me he has no issue getting work. Cancelled MONTHS in advance. What has he done worth $300 for the quote, gotta start somewhere to come to a resolution and he didn't even get a response on that offer or a counter? The guy didn't even agree to that, he ghosted him and blocked. I'd be busy Mother Fu%&ing this dude all over the web already.

How soon we forget the example that Greg Weld (RIP) set for us.

This.

[ScotI]

I guess it is because the OP stated at no time was a non refundable deposit discussed. This implies a refundable deposit was not discussed either.

I’m not saying that he shouldn’t get it back. I’m saying that based on what I’ve seen I’m not going to participate in an online campaign to discredit the shop.

Don

Your take of the situation is valid for sure. That being said, I wouldn't bash or trash anyone on the NET that I don't have 1st hand experience with. I would definitely mention a shop to avoid & share the details of someone getting ghosted when trying to negotiate a proper exit though..... Just ignoring someone is worse than @ least trying to attempt a resolution.

[ProTouring442]

He didn't cancel the month before. Guy sold him on securing a spot tells me he has no issue getting work. Cancelled MONTHS in advance. What has he done worth $300 for the quote, gotta start somewhere to come to a resolution and he didn't even get a response on that offer or a counter? The guy didn't even agree to that, he ghosted him and blocked. I'd be busy Mother Fu%&ing this dude all over the web already.

How soon we forget the example that Greg Weld (RIP) set for us.

No offense to the OP, but we only have his side of the story. We don't actually know the shop owner didn't make counter offers. We don't actually know what went on between the shop owner and the OP. And, given my own experience in dealing with hostile customers, frequently the stories they tell have no resemblance to what actually went on.

From the lady who was 100% positive (and told everyone about it) that I was trying to rip her off by "just trying to sell her oil!" (because there was none on the dipstick--the engine locked up a very short while later), to the guy who told an entire parking lot full of people he "told me it wasn't the timing belt," while calling me a thief and a liar (turns out the car was towed back in because someone had bumped it in the shopping mall parking lot, tripping the roll over switch), I've been down that road too many times to simply assume the OP is giving us the real account (even if he might believe he is).

My advice is, take the shop to small claims court if he's sure he's described events as they really occurred, but don't go blasting it all over the internet. If the fact don't perfectly match his posts, he could find himself in a lot of hot water.

[will69camaro]

No offense to the OP, but we only have his side of the story. We don't actually know the shop owner didn't make counter offers. We don't actually know what went on between the shop owner and the OP. And, given my own experience in dealing with hostile customers, frequently the stories they tell have no resemblance to what actually went on.

From the lady who was 100% positive (and told everyone about it) that I was trying to rip her off by "just trying to sell her oil!" (because there was none on the dipstick--the engine locked up a very short while later), to the guy who told an entire parking lot full of people he "told me it wasn't the timing belt," while calling me a thief and a liar (turns out the car was towed back in because someone had bumped it in the shopping mall parking lot, tripping the roll over switch), I've been down that road too many times to simply assume the OP is giving us the real account (even if he might believe he is).

My advice is, take the shop to small claims court if he's sure he's described events as they really occurred, but don't go blasting it all over the internet. If the fact don't perfectly match his posts, he could find himself in a lot of hot water.

I get what you’re saying but I’d say those two examples are so vastly different from any possible scenario here they can’t even be the same discussion. He cancelled his slot 2 weeks after it was made, 5MONTHS before he was scheduled.

No doubt each should share some liability. But keeping the full amount and ghosting him is BS. I’d say he’s lucky it wasn’t more lost to this and I 100% would just go the route of online presence over small claims for that amount.

[two-piece]

No offense to the OP, but we only have his side of the story. We don't actually know the shop owner didn't make counter offers. We don't actually know what went on between the shop owner and the OP. And, given my own experience in dealing with hostile customers, frequently the stories they tell have no resemblance to what actually went on.

From the lady who was 100% positive (and told everyone about it) that I was trying to rip her off by "just trying to sell her oil!" (because there was none on the dipstick--the engine locked up a very short while later), to the guy who told an entire parking lot full of people he "told me it wasn't the timing belt," while calling me a thief and a liar (turns out the car was towed back in because someone had bumped it in the shopping mall parking lot, tripping the roll over switch), I've been down that road too many times to simply assume the OP is giving us the real account (even if he might believe he is).

My advice is, take the shop to small claims court if he's sure he's described events as they really occurred, but don't go blasting it all over the internet. If the fact don't perfectly match his posts, he could find himself in a lot of hot water.

I understand you only have my side. Short of him coming on here and posting his that’s all I can offer. Small claims court for $1,900 wouldn’t be worth worth the time. I’d have to go to Alabama to deal with it. Chances are I’ll never get my money back but I want everyone to know about the shop.

[two-piece]

74433

74434

Here is the quote and contract I never signed.

[Vegas69]

You don't need to prove yourself to anybody. The human affliction including mine is to be quick to judge without all the facts. If it was me, I'd probably move on with my life and do what I feel is morally right with his online reputation in one review/post.