Paint/Finish Question

[Tony V]

Guys, i'm at the point where I've given up on the shop and yanking the car out this week. They're just not going to get it where i'm going to be satisfied with the finish. They just don't want to spend the time in finish sanding the clear and some of minor stuff. they're not getting any more $ and the owner and I just need to go our own way.
What do i need to consider if i just get her home and wet sand the cut and buff myself? Am I just going to create a bigger mess? any advice would be appreciated.

[dhutton]

Cutting and buffing a car without knowing how many coats of clear were applied is risky especially if you have no experience.

Don

[LS1 TJ]

Times 2 on the clear coat thickness. On my 68 C10 the body shop sprayed 4 coats of clear and some of the easier parts and not near the edges "let" me color sand. Started with 1000, 2000 and then 3000. It's a lot of work. They did all the polishing and buffing. Turned out great.

On the other hand I had them polish and buff my brothers 2003 911 and they said they would love to color sand it but not knowing the amount clear could not risk it because if you sand thru the clear you get to repaint the panel.

Maybe one of the body shops techs would moon light a bit and help you color sand and buff?

[BMR Sales]

Maybe one of the body shops techs would moon light a bit and help you color sand and buff?

that's what I was thinking!

[JD67SS]

It’s really not that hard, it just takes a looooooong time.
If you’re really serious about doing this, I’ll give you good advice.

I would think that the shop owner would let you talk to the painter, ask how many coats and how much clear (should be about a gallon).

Post back and we’ll continue this.

JD

[Tony V]

Okay here's what i'm thinking....i'm bringing it home and I'm taking the clear down to the paint. The shop i'm yanking it from has a new painter and he's been watching the sh** show for some time so out of the blue I asked him for some advice. He doesn't know how much clear is on there but he's been asked to touch up and add more clear as they've been trying to fix the issues. He told me i should just stop the madness and get it out. He actually offered to come over to my garage and lend a hand. I'll post some pics of where we're currently at. shortly. oh they also miss drilled where my emblems where supposed to be mounted so i need to consider welding the holes up and starting over but that creates another huge mess.

[Tony V]

Hard to see issues with these pics....i need to load more. but the door to fender gaps are bad...too tight on the bottom and >1/2" on top. and the clear wasn't nearly sanded well enough....it seems the finish has "ripples" in it.
https://i.imgur.com/FFekqJDs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NDqY8Xrm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6kA1LG1m.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lxfE8xWm.jpg

[dhutton]

If the door gaps to the rocker and quarter are good then the fender gaps are due to the subframe and/or core support bushings imho. Shimming will likely be needed.

Urethane wave needs to be blocked out with long stiff blocks and will remove a lot of clear. If you hit the base it’s game over and the panel needs to be repainted imho...

If you are also welding up emblem holes you are most likely looking at a complete do over imho...

Don

[Tony V]

Thx Don, the quarter and rocker gaps are perfect because I did them prior to sending it to the shop. I did tell them that the fender gaps needed to be done. I tracked the car for a year and was modifying suspension and fenders to avoid rubs prior to paint. I think I’m taking it all the way down and starting over but doing ALL the prep myself. I think I just lost a year getting it back on the road....


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[dhutton]

Thx Don, the quarter and rocker gaps are perfect because I did them prior to sending it to the shop. I did tell them that the fender gaps needed to be done. I tracked the car for a year and was modifying suspension and fenders to avoid rubs prior to paint. I think I’m taking it all the way down and starting over but doing ALL the prep myself. I think I just lost a year getting it back on the road....


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I would try shimming up the core support bushings to fix the fender gaps before going at it with a welder. Hard to say for sure without better pics. A half inch is a huge gap.

Don

[JD67SS]

I would try shimming up the core support bushings to fix the fender gaps before going at it with a welder. Hard to say for sure without better pics. A half inch is a huge gap.

Don

Post some close ups of the bad areas and the gap issues

JD

[Tony V]

Plan on it when I get it back home this week.


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[syborg tt]

Hard to see issues with these pics....i need to load more. but the door to fender gaps are bad...too tight on the bottom and >1/2" on top. ]

Are you running subframe connectors that are bolted or welded it in ?

If they are welded in them it’s possible your core support needs shims.

You need to look at the six mounting points and see if they shimmed anything and do you remember if there where any shims before the car was disassembled before paint ?

I would work on all panel fitting before you do any paint correction.


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[LS1 TJ]

Bummer about your project. But as said above attack it slowly but by shimming and aligning the front sub frame you may be OK.. It may come out well. Keep in mind that if unless the body shop welded and ground the fender/door gaps they won't be any better than 1969 gaps which weren't good.
What won't be good is if you try to straighten waves by sanding the clear. That has to done with the under laying body work.
I not a body guy but my best car buddy is and I show him these threads and ask for his advice.

[dhutton]

What won't be good is if you try to straighten waves by sanding the clear. That has to done with the under laying body work.
I not a body guy but my best car buddy is and I show him these threads and ask for his advice.

The wave is in the clear. Urethane wave. Generally caused by hammering on the clear. Google it....

Don

[66fury]

i wouldn't think the car would need to be stripped and redone unless its a total abortion.you chose them to do the work so I'm sure you checked them out before giving them your baby.i bet its not horrible to the point of a redo.may not be what you were expecting but no paint job is flawless until the hundreds of hours of cutting and buffing are done.if its gapped bad that's another issue.why not block it again rebase it and clear it?

[NOPANTS68]

I'd re-gap it, weld up your holes and keep your bodywork tight, block what's on it, and just re-base/clear the thing. You'll be money and time ahead and ultimately get what you paid for. The good news is you won't need to do any jambing on it, but assuming they painted it apart, you will have an edge in the door jamb.

[Tony V]

Here’s the latest, trying work a deal out where I can come in during the weekend and weeknights to work it myself. Initially I’ll take 800 grit to the clear coat and see if we can get it straight. I also need to post some pics so I can show the issues.

Thanks for all the help and advice....btw they did screw up the core support bushings which helped the door gaps, so we’re on to something. A couple lessons learned prior to dropping the car off...I’ll post so everyone can benefit from.


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[XLexusTech]

Tony.. would you consider doing a Wrap. ?

PS sorry for your troubles..

[Tony V]

Ok, another twist the owner reached out yesterday and said he wasn’t happy with it and will take the it all the way down and start over. He apologized it’s taking too long and said he’ll get it right. Keep in mind we’ve never had any angry words just conversations and Me just stating how unsatisfied I was. The two guys he initially had on the car when I first brought it in doesn’t work there anymore and that’s where the root cause was. Honestly it’s the right decision and he’s now taking it in the shorts but having two idiots working for you will come back to bite you sooner or later. Thx for all the advice...and yes I’m going to be spending some time helping and guiding it through.


No wraps, just not into them.


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[JD67SS]

That’s fantastic news, it’s the best possible resolution for your car.
The bad news is it’ll take a little longer than you wanted...
The good news is you’re probably going to end up with a killer paint job! :trophy-1302:

Who has possession of the car? Now is the time to go over every square inch with a fine tooth comb and note any imperfections that need to be addressed.

JD

[Tony V]

So spent the morning with the crew to resent expectations and i wanted to be very clear on what they plan on doing...actual sanding starts tomorrow so i'll be over there in between dropping kids off. I feel comfortable i'll get something better than what I have now. I did found out this morning that the guys in the shop got together last week and convinced the owner that it wasn't right and they needed to redo it, so I think they actually care what kind of product they produce. Remember the two who started this project aren't working there any longer.

Tried to take pictures to show the "waviness" of the clear but kinda hard without the light but with the right light it looks light corn syrup running down the side of the car.
https://i.imgur.com/K6AyEzJ.jpg?1

door gaps got better, there's still room for improvement.
https://i.imgur.com/ZAfZEqim.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SGQwsV3m.jpg?1

Thanks again for all the advice...

[Tony V]

Ok, I gotta say that the last 3 months have been a bit sketchy but I brought it home yesterday and i'm very happy with the result. He sanded it all back down and repainted the entire car and we now have a much better finish. To be honest I'd go back again only because he owned up to it and never argued about it. He knows he had a couple guys in there that tried to short cut their way through it and he took responsibility. I tried to pay him for materials on the second go around and he refused. He truly wanted to make it right and I know he lost money on the deal because we agreed to $6500 and he never budged off of the quote. I like to believe we're all still friends and hey all want rides when I get it back on the road....surprising happy ending...
https://i.imgur.com/dw5PhNn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FtHt5fvm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1qdPdiZm.jpg

[Vegas69]

Looks super sharp!

[Musclerodz]

What paint did he use cause I want to know how he made money just doing it the first time, not including the total loss the second time.

[Tony V]

I bet it wasn’t PPG, I’ll ask him today but I think he used Matrix products from what I remember. It’s a track/ street car so I didn’t want a top dollar paint job.


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[Ketzer]

Whatever paint he used, it turned out beautiful!

VERY few paint stories end up positive. Congrats to you!... and to him for stepping up.



Jeff-

[minendrews68]

I am glad you guys worked things out. The outcome was pretty nice! On another note I was talking to a friend of mine that has a '40's model Dodge. I don't remember which Dodge, just that it was a Dodge. A good friend of his is doing the paint job. I asked him yesterday if he had gotten his car back yet and he told me in about 2 weeks. He really seemed down in the dumps talking about it. I asked him what was wrong and he proceeded to tell me the story. My friend completely stripped the body and had it down to the bare metal. The car body was off of the frame and completely bare inside and out. It needed some body work, although no rust or bad dents. That is when he told me that the price of the car so far was $50K labor and 8K in materials !! What? The guy painting it has a home made paint booth in his back yard shop! I believe you should have to pay for what you get but I've seen some of this painters work and for that kind of money WOW. The bad thing is... They aren't done yet. This is being done here in Northeast Arkansas in a guys back yard!

[66fury]

your buddy did all the work or did the body guy do the stripping and separating the body and frame? either way 8k$ on materials,what materials? 50k$ labor at 100$ an hour ,guessing, is like 3 months of time.how do people get pulled into paying scammers to do work for them.i feel for your buddy

[minendrews68]

my buddy did all the stripping down to metal, and then sent him just the bare body on a roll around cart he made just for this car. Yeah, he's pretty sick about all this. He was thinking at the high side of cost being around high 20's or low 30's. I figure it will be close to high 60's when he's finished.