To Cage or Not to Cage??

[customcam]

I was just curious to see when should you install a cage?
Alot of ppl say if your running over 500hp on the street to cage it!
either a 4 point or 6.
Then i see 750 hp street cars with no cage?
im Bewildered! the other is the visual aspect of the cage and its finish (padding) etc.
Can someone tell me for the street with 500-600 hp motor should you install a cage? ps: 68 Camaro :_paranoid

[Pro T Mustang]

A lot of people think its a matter of personal choice. A cage can for sure make your car stronger but the posablity of hitting one of those bars with your head/body is not very appealing. Do your homework as to what style of cage and dont forget to figure in the seats and seatbelts as they will all work together.

[sinned]

You should never under any circumstances run a cage in a street car unless you are prepared to do so properly EVERYTIME you get into driver seat. That means fully and properly wearing your 5 point harness and making sure you are driving in a comfortable yet upright position.

Cages should not be considered bling-bling or to portray the image that your car is fast, they should also not be installed based on the potential HP output. Who cares how much power the thing makes...how is going to be driven?

[vintageracer]

My vintage race 66 Shelby GT350 racecar is fully caged as it should be since it is a dedicated race car. In Tennessee we have no inspection so ANYTHING street legal! My car is also licensed so I can use I-40 as my test track. Just kidding!

I occasionally drive the car to the local cruise and have picked up my little girl at school. The teachers are not big on the open exhaust but my little girl loves it!!!

Having driven this car on the street, there is no way I would want a "cage" in any street driven car I would own. A rear 4 point roll bar behind the driver's seat maybe a possibility but not a cage. The possiblility of injury in MUCH greater in a caged street car driven without the safety equipment typically used in a race car, IE at HELMET and snug 5-6 point harness's. My cage is EXTREMELY well designed and snug to the roof line, doors etc. It also adds lots of weight to your car. You must decide the primary use for your car and decide. If street driving use is even a slight consideration as far as use for your car, ditch the cage idea. The looks the cage will produce is not worth the "headache" it can cause in an unprepared accident!

Take Denny's advice and forget a cage in your street car.

[gchandler]

Does the no cage thing still hold true for pre '67 cars that have only a lap belt, a non-collapsible steering column and seat backs that don't lock into place?

I am of the opinion that if you install a proper seat and belts you are ok running on the street without a helmet.

You really shouldn't be driving in such a way that you get the car upside down, or flip it multiple times, but even if that happens I believe that you are better off in a caged car with good seats and belts then in a stock car, even if you do not have fire resistant clothing and a helmet on.

I feel older cars, especially those build before 1967, leave much to be desired in the way of safety equipment and could really benefit from upgrades.

[customcam]

thanks guys for the comments! really good insight into both sides.
It was more of a strength issue than anything!
cars are meant to be driven! thats my motto!!
How strong are the stock 68 chassis?
Or can u add strength without adding a cage?
Im thinking 400sbc with either 2 spd glide/th 400
and 9 inch rear. est power: 500-600 hp.
:thumbsup:

[Steve1968LS2]

I am ok with a roll bar even a cage on the street.. BUT you have to have it in the right way and run the right belts..

It would suck to be killed by your bars halo because you were just wearing a lap belt and your skull slammed into your "safety" equipement..

On my 68 with the full cage I will not drive the car without wearing my full 5-point harness. If your 4 point was set back far enough you could probley get away with just a lap belt but that depends on design.

In for a penny.. in for a pound :)

I got a tech question just like this the other day.. I think it merits discussion.

[907rs]

Not that I don't plan on having harnesses installed in mine, but If the bars are padded, what's the difference between hitting your head on one of the bars compared to the roof or any other hard part of the car interior?

I was involved in a serious roll-over a few years ago, and even with a lap/shoulder belt on, my head was sore for two weeks!

[jonny51]

On a subframe car having a full cage really ties the car together IMO.

[sinned]

Not that I don't plan on having harnesses installed in mine, but If the bars are padded, what's the difference between hitting your head on one of the bars compared to the roof or any other hard part of the car interior?

I was involved in a serious roll-over a few years ago, and even with a lap/shoulder belt on, my head was sore for two weeks!
Go outside and bang your head against the roof or hood, than bang it against a padded roll bar. You tell me which one laid you on your can, I already know the answer. :thumbsup:

[conekiller13]

In Oregon (where I'm at) if You've installed a 5 piont harness You are then required to wear that 5 point properly as part of the states seat belt law. It would seem if You put a cage in it would be kind of silly not to go the reat of the way with harnesses.

[jannes_z-28]

Building several racecars (full roundtube ProStock chassis) in my earlier days I would say that the main reason for a cage is not to protect the occupants of the car. From an engineers point of view the cage is there to connect the supensionpoints with the engine. The stiffer that is the better handling. Flex in chassis are powerrobbers.

The second reason is protection, but as had been said before, a cage can do harm to the driver if you are not well tied down and wearing a helmet. According to the rules (if I remember correctly) is that the top of your helmet should be below the lower part of the mainhoop. This will of course reduce the headroom, especially if you are tall. No sense for protection if your head is over the cage, right.

So if you want a stiff chassis you need a full cage.

Welded subframe connectors like the DSE will strengthen your car, but it will still flex.

It also depends on what you want to do with your car. If it is only to be streetdriven, but sometimes hard, I would say that you don't need the cage.
If you want to race with it, you might need it for the rules, you will need it for the strenght it will provide to the chassis.

To build a car is nothing but a major compromise.

Jan

[tndude]

Very well said Jan. :)

[Steve Chryssos]

I see gross generalizations stating do not under any circumstances install a roll cage in a street car because you might bang your head. How 'bout: Do not build a car capable of 150mph that does NOT have a roll cage--especially if it is capable of significant front end lift. Now there's a statement!! "Don't do it!!" is of no help at all. Instead there should be a thorough discussion about cage design that covers various topics including

-Bar Placement: By juggling seat height and side halo bar placement it is entirely possible to build 5" clearance between head and halo.
-Seat Type: I have a one piece FIA seat with significant side bolstering.
-Seat Mounting and Location. My one piece seat is rigid mounted to the cage and does not hinge.
-Padding Type http://lockracewrks.com/Products/Safety%20Equipment/BSCI/bsci.html available from BSR.
-Belt Type Mounting: Requires it's own discussion

Properly planned and executed, a roll cage will not hurt you and may very well save your ass--even on the street. I say do it--but do it right.


Oh! And keep your helmet in the car. You never know when it might come in handy ;)

[conekiller13]

Very Well said Steve...............I knew I liked You for a reason. :P

[Marcus SC&C]

Steve`s right BUT there are a lot of ifs there. A lot of it depends on the driver. I`m a big guy,my hair usually just brushes against the headliner in most cars. Getting good bar to head clearance without a helmet just ain`t gonna happen in most cars. I`m a very firm believer in 6 and 8 pt. cages for the street (especially in subframe cars!). If the hoop in put in the proper location your head will never even get close and the low sidebars tie the chassis together through triangulation and provide side impact protection that most vintage muscle cars don`t have. Done properly the side bars aren`t much of an inconvenience at all.

When do you NEED a cage or roll bar? If we had put one in my sister`s 200hp 283/glide `67 Nova that got T boned she (and her best friend) might be alive today. The car squashed like a soda can. We had figured a cage would be "silly" because it wasn`t a fast car.... Marcus SC&C

[jonny51]

Sorry to hear that Marcus.I am a big fan of cages for many reasons.

[Steve1968LS2]

My new car has a full cage.. even belted in my head could hit the upper side bar but then again it could hit the edge of the roof too. the bar is thickly padded and hitting it would most likely do less damage than hitting the unpadded roof edge.

The rear hoop is far enough back so as not to be an issue and the door beam is protected because of the seat bolsters.

I may try to lower the seat some to give me even more room.

If done right a cage is fine.. if done wrong it can kill you.. seems simple enough to me..

Anyone remember the automatic seat belts on cars in the early 90's.. it would automaticly put on the shoulder belt but not the lap.. a few lazy people got decapitated and now that idea is gone.

Its called a safety SYSTEM for a reason.. all or nothing.. so buckle up :)

[PhaseShift]

This thread seems to be going in the direction that I would agree with, but I thought I would chime in as well.


I believe that the most critical factor here is the design. In pretty much every case on this forum (probably most others) we are all dealing with so many variables that it all comes down to one-off design. You have to really consider all of the variables that apply to your situation before you make the decision. How tall are you? How much room are you willing to give up? How good are you (or your shop) at precision fabrication? ... on and on.....

A lot of people who run a cage or roll bar do not like to use padding. The padding may not be a crash helmet, but it is a benefit in the event of a crash and head impact; mainly in the spreading of the load. You are still going to have the high g-force, but the load will be spread over a larger area and the risk of local fracture or shattering is not as high. Someone posted a link to some good roll bar padding; it is good stuff and stiff enough to be effective.

The other thing is about the safety restraint system. I do not mean to throw rocks here, but to me having a car with a cage and only wearing a lap belt or over the shoulder harness is just plain suicidal. Even a low speed accident could really plant your noggin against the cage (or column) in a big way.

[Payton King]

I might as well get in on this as well. I was concerned about a halo bar and it being close to my head. I opted for an eight point bar instead of the cage route. Main hoop(away from my head) braced with door bars to front of floor, rear bars to trunk area and bars from main hoop and cross bar to subframe connectors. I needed more safety because of HP level, but I did not need an all out cage. It will qualify me to run in the 10's at the strip, I can remove the door bars(bolted in) to cruise the streets and bolt them back in for the occasional track day. If I need to go open road racing then I feel a full on cage is a must.

With all of that being said. Steve's new 68 as a cage certified to run 8's at the strip and his Halo bar is padded. I would rather hit that padded halo bar in a crash than my head on the roof seal. Obviously, a full cage is going to give more protection than my set-up...just pad the halo or any other bars that you could come in contact with.

I went my route by being honest with the use of my car. 80% street and 20% track events with enough horsepower to get me in trouble at either place.