63 Falcon Coyote steering set-up

[RaceDeck]

anyone here info/pics on the steering set up for a 63 falcon with a coyote motor set up.. ( looking at all options, space is tight) :lolhit:

[Matt@BOS]

We've used either Detroit Speed or Cortex Racing for all of our front end swaps that are using Coyote engines. TCI also seems to well, but we don't have any personal experience with their Ford front end and a Coyote.

Some people might try and debate that you can do the conversion a lot cheaper by notching shock towers and using either a rear steer rack, or a box, but I wouldn't because you're going to have a lot of extra hours making things work, problem solving, fitting headers, etc. and you'll still be left with a front end that is less than ideal for handling and can't fit a decent sized wheel and tire package up front.

[Schwartz Perf]

When you say steering setup, what do you mean?

I was thinking power steering pump setup; but Matt was thinking actual rack & pinion and steering linkage. lol.

So regarding power steering for the Coyote, I'd say Vintage Air's Front Runner is the best; or if you don't need AC, KRC has a decent setup too.

-Dale

[RaceDeck]

For the steering I am referring to a system that will fit and work properly. This is a pretty big build we are doing under my company RaceDeck - It will be built around tuned 5.2L Voodoo motor and trans - I am looking at numerous suspension designs and systems as well. The plan is to show and run this car in numerous track and road events around the country - Thanks for the Info :thumbsup:

This was our last build > https://www.racedeck.com/maliboost

[Matt@BOS]

I kind of figured you were talking about everything involved with getting a Coyote to fit in a Falcon.

I've probably put about 25K combined miles on my '65 Fastback with a 5.0 Aluminator XS engine, and DSE front, Maier Inc. rear suspension. Every hot rod always seems to have a couple little issues of its own, and on my Fastback, its been the alternator and power steering pump, which were about the only non OEM pieces in the drivetrain.

Here are a couple things to keep in mind, the Falcon frame rails are narrower than the Mustang's rails, so most off the shelf aftermarket suspensions that fit a Coyote are going to take a little bit of work to install. That's not a bad thing, but it will cause a few complications, so planning ahead of time is going to be key!

I mentioned before, I'd recommend either Detroit Speed or Cortex mostly because they work really well, but also because out of all the different front end kits, I have some idea of the work involved getting what you want to work!

DSE - You are going to have to do a little more cutting and offset the mounting brackets for the K member off center towards the outside of the rails, notch out the driver's side frame rail, and associated DSE control arm uprights to fit a factory alternator (smaller ones won't output enough to keep fans, ecu, headlights, fuel pump, etc. running at idle). You may also need to notch out the passenger side frame rail to fit a power steering pump.

Cortex Racing - Cortex builds a more race oriented front suspension system. They don't have the same manufacturing capabilities to be able to build OEM quality parts like cast aluminum K members, but their design works well, and in a lot of ways is much simpler, giving you a little more space in the engine bay. You would need to order a "builder" kit that is unwelded to be able to fit the cross member, etc. We are currently installing one of these kits in a Falcon Wagon. You may also need to notch the frame rails for clearance, but won't need to take as much out as you would with DSE, may be able to run a slightly wider front wheel and tire package because you aren't pushing the crossmember out as much to get it to fit as you would be with DSE.

Last things to keep in mind - I chose to keep keep as many factory parts on the front accessory drive as possible because they're durability tested to roughly 8K rpm vs a bunch of aftermarket parts. Unfortunately there is no factory hydraulic power steering pump. Hindsight being 20/20, I might have used an electric over hydraulic power steering pump to free up space and keep from spinning the pump so fast. The last, and possibly most important thing to keep in mind when using the 5.2 Voodoo engine is that you NEED to run the factory motor mounts and transmission mounts because of the flat plane crank and associated vibration, or the car might just rattle itself apart.

You're more than welcome to give me a call if you want anymore specific info. Don't want you to end up with a car that looks great, but is barely driveable.

Matt

[RaceDeck]

Thanks for all of the tips and info Matt! For sure this will be a big project but if all goes well, should be a great build! we are headed to SEMA to exhibit and have a few meetings set up with various companies to go over my options and should have a solid plan once I leave there. I have some really good 'industry guys' involved already on this one who approach things from a well engineered approach..

I kind of figured you were talking about everything involved with getting a Coyote to fit in a Falcon.

I've probably put about 25K combined miles on my '65 Fastback with a 5.0 Aluminator XS engine, and DSE front, Maier Inc. rear suspension. Every hot rod always seems to have a couple little issues of its own, and on my Fastback, its been the alternator and power steering pump, which were about the only non OEM pieces in the drivetrain.

Here are a couple things to keep in mind, the Falcon frame rails are narrower than the Mustang's rails, so most off the shelf aftermarket suspensions that fit a Coyote are going to take a little bit of work to install. That's not a bad thing, but it will cause a few complications, so planning ahead of time is going to be key!

I mentioned before, I'd recommend either Detroit Speed or Cortex mostly because they work really well, but also because out of all the different front end kits, I have some idea of the work involved getting what you want to work!

DSE - You are going to have to do a little more cutting and offset the mounting brackets for the K member off center towards the outside of the rails, notch out the driver's side frame rail, and associated DSE control arm uprights to fit a factory alternator (smaller ones won't output enough to keep fans, ecu, headlights, fuel pump, etc. running at idle). You may also need to notch out the passenger side frame rail to fit a power steering pump.

Cortex Racing - Cortex builds a more race oriented front suspension system. They don't have the same manufacturing capabilities to be able to build OEM quality parts like cast aluminum K members, but their design works well, and in a lot of ways is much simpler, giving you a little more space in the engine bay. You would need to order a "builder" kit that is unwelded to be able to fit the cross member, etc. We are currently installing one of these kits in a Falcon Wagon. You may also need to notch the frame rails for clearance, but won't need to take as much out as you would with DSE, may be able to run a slightly wider front wheel and tire package because you aren't pushing the crossmember out as much to get it to fit as you would be with DSE.

Last things to keep in mind - I chose to keep keep as many factory parts on the front accessory drive as possible because they're durability tested to roughly 8K rpm vs a bunch of aftermarket parts. Unfortunately there is no factory hydraulic power steering pump. Hindsight being 20/20, I might have used an electric over hydraulic power steering pump to free up space and keep from spinning the pump so fast. The last, and possibly most important thing to keep in mind when using the 5.2 Voodoo engine is that you NEED to run the factory motor mounts and transmission mounts because of the flat plane crank and associated vibration, or the car might just rattle itself apart.

You're more than welcome to give me a call if you want anymore specific info. Don't want you to end up with a car that looks great, but is barely driveable.

Matt

[66corvetteater]

We've used either Detroit Speed or Cortex Racing for all of our front end swaps that are using Coyote engines. TCI also seems to well, but we don't have any personal experience with their Ford front end and a Coyote.

Some people might try and debate that you can do the conversion a lot cheaper by notching shock towers and using either a rear steer rack, or a box, but I wouldn't because you're going to have a lot of extra hours making things work, problem solving, fitting headers, etc. and you'll still be left with a front end that is less than ideal for handling and can't fit a decent sized wheel and tire package up front.


Hi Matt@BOS,

I had a few questions hopefully you could answer. I am between the dse and cortex racing stuff. I have a coyote that is waiting for me in the garage. I was wondering how you would compare the cortex racing set up vs the alumaframe set up from dse.

Dse seems to have a higher quality feel but I am mostly concerned about ride quality in the street and all out performance. I do autocross and road race. The car is mostly a street cruiser but I love to race and plan to race alot more now that the kids are older now.

Any input would be greatly appreciated

Thank you

[Matt@BOS]

Hi Matt@BOS,

I had a few questions hopefully you could answer. I am between the dse and cortex racing stuff. I have a coyote that is waiting for me in the garage. I was wondering how you would compare the cortex racing set up vs the alumaframe set up from dse.

Dse seems to have a higher quality feel but I am mostly concerned about ride quality in the street and all out performance. I do autocross and road race. The car is mostly a street cruiser but I love to race and plan to race alot more now that the kids are older now.

Any input would be greatly appreciated

Thank you

It’s hard to pick between the two! The part of me that races likes the adjustable control arms from the Cortex setup, which allows for more practical camber and caster adjustment, not to mention track width as well! The Cortex kit might require a little more DIY fab, like boxing out the area above the frame rails and below the shock tower stands (easier to show and explain in photos), however the DSE front end requires an equal amount of fab skill, and possibly a few more tools if you’re going to mill the upper control arm mount to fit a factory alternator.

Ride quality on the street is probably going to come down to shocks. I would run JRi shocks valved from JJ at Ultimate Performance on either setup, which have enough range of adjustment for street or track driving! Performance is also really good for both of them!

I could go back and forth forever comparing the two, it’s a bit of “six of one, half dozen of the other.” But there are lots of little differences between the two. If you want to chat over the phone I can help steer you in the right direction for what you want to build!

[RaceDeck]

all great info... I think I have a plan in place now after 5 days at SEMA as well..
thanks for all the input

[RaceDeck]

.... and we are off! We are now going to start the teardown of the Sprint and soon after start the 'RaceDeck' Voodoo Falcon build.

https://i.ibb.co/JkpwvSQ/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-c239.jpg (https://ibb.co/DKMH9jp)
https://i.ibb.co/28Rd4bF/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-c243.jpg (https://ibb.co/ZHvxDZf)
https://i.ibb.co/jzgcVnv/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-c23e.jpg (https://ibb.co/w7M9J5N)