Carbon ceramic brakes

[CamaroAJ]

Wasn’t there a thread on here where Mark said unless you have ABS carbon rotors are not a good idea because they are like an on off switch out of no where when they get to temp?

Looking at brakes for my car and was thinking about picking up a set and have been searching for negatives other than the cost or replacement rotors. I can pick up a set of steel rotors for track days though. I’m planning on C5Z stand alone ABS, but I’m not 100% yet if I’m going to do it.

[Build-It-Break-it]

page 16 post number 154 talks about what your looking for on jackass 2.0.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17744&highlight=carbon+brakes&page=16

I avoided the carbon brakes because of Mark warning about them if you don't have abs. It's not mentioned in the above post by Mark himself but I also do remember Mark speaking about it but can't remember which build.

[JKnight]

I think Mario (Doom) struggled with them as well, but it may have been something other than the fact they were ceramics. I don’t believe he did ABS either. Hopefully he’s been able to put some miles on the car and provide some insights.

[CamaroAJ]

page 16 post number 154 talks about what your looking for on jackass 2.0.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17744&highlight=carbon+brakes&page=16

I avoided the carbon brakes because of Mark warning about them if you don't have abs. It's not mentioned in the above post by Mark himself but I also do remember Mark speaking about it but can't remember which build.

I thought it was in that thread too, but didn’t see it. I seem to remember someone having an off track experience when they got hot and locked up into a corner out of no where.

I think Mario (Doom) struggled with them as well, but it may have been something other than the fact they were ceramics. I don’t believe he did ABS either. Hopefully he’s been able to put some miles on the car and provide some insights.

Hopefully someone with some track experience with them will chime in.

[Build-It-Break-it]

Here's a great little write up from Vorshlag about the carbon brakes. It's post #8. I think they made me also change my mind. I hope this one helps you decide. They give so many good reasons not to use Carbon Brakes.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=52992

[CamaroAJ]

Here's a great little write up from Vorshlag about the carbon brakes. It's post #8. I think they made me also change my mind. I hope this one helps you decide. They give so many good reasons not to use Carbon Brakes.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=52992

Thank you, that’s a good read. So at this point what I’m thinking is depending on the deal I can find on Baer Brakes I’ll go with those. If it’s not much more than the carbon brakes I’ll get them. If it’s considerably more I’ll go with the carbon brakes and get iron rotors when the car gets tracked. There is a company selling brand new front and back ZR1 calipers, pads, and iron rotors for $5k though which I think is about the same price as Baer. In any case I won’t run carbon brakes on the track.

[Build-It-Break-it]

No problem. I've heard a lot of bad things about Baer brakes as well. I don't think those are really performance brakes for any real tough driving. I can find the negative articles on those to if you like.

Is there a reason you want carbon brakes? When I was considering them my reason was the performance (which after reading wasn't any) and the wow factor for people to see them on my 68 camaro.

From what I've seen Stoptech , Brembo or wilwood are the go to in that order.

[CamaroAJ]

No problem. I've heard a lot of bad things about Baer brakes as well. I don't think those are really performance brakes for any real tough driving. I can find the negative articles on those to if you like.

Is there a reason you want carbon brakes? When I was considering them my reason was the performance (which after reading wasn't any) and the wow factor for people to see them on my 68 camaro.

From what I've seen Stoptech , Brembo or wilwood are the go to in that order.

I had Baer on my ‘67 and liked them. It just seems that what everyone runs.

I like the light weight of the carbon rotors vs. size compared to iron and I like the OEM part factor that I can get at any dealer. I feel wilwood calipers don’t meet performance aspects. That seem more bling than function and flex quite a bit.

I’ll look more into stoptech and ap racing before I make a decision.

[chetly]

I had Baer on my ‘67 and liked them. It just seems that what everyone runs.

I like the light weight of the carbon rotors vs. size compared to iron and I like the OEM part factor that I can get at any dealer. I feel wilwood calipers don’t meet performance aspects. That seem more bling than function and flex quite a bit.

I’ll look more into stoptech and ap racing before I make a decision.


I think you got it backwards about Wilwood. There are plenty of fast people running Wilwood brakes. Mike Maier, Brian Hobaugh, Ken Thwaits. I know for me, when I lunched a front hub on my C4 the wheel got into the caliper and ground a hole in it. I called Baer so I could order a replacement. They couldn't answer simple questions like have they ever changed piston sizes in the calipers over the years or what the piston sizes were in their calipers so I could check. They don't give out that information regarding piston sizes. I would have hated to pay $775 for 1 caliper only to find out caliper pistons were different sizes. I would have had to either return the new caliper at a financial loss due to shipping and restocking fees or buy another $775 caliper in order to match.
Where as I called Wilwood, ordered a complete kit. Rotors, calipers, lines, pads all in a well packaged box. Saved 7lbs in the front alone. Ordered a rear kit as well because we needed more rear brake than we were getting from the stock calipers. Saved another 8lbs there. The nice thing with Wilwood is if your out tracking the car and feel you need more rear brake or front brake, you can order a new caliper with larger or smaller pistons for $250. They have a tech department that'll listen to what you need and they support the community.

[CamaroAJ]

I think you got it backwards about Wilwood. There are plenty of fast people running Wilwood brakes. Mike Maier, Brian Hobaugh, Ken Thwaits. I know for me, when I lunched a front hub on my C4 the wheel got into the caliper and ground a hole in it. I called Baer so I could order a replacement. They couldn't answer simple questions like have they ever changed piston sizes in the calipers over the years or what the piston sizes were in their calipers so I could check. They don't give out that information regarding piston sizes. I would have hated to pay $775 for 1 caliper only to find out caliper pistons were different sizes. I would have had to either return the new caliper at a financial loss due to shipping and restocking fees or buy another $775 caliper in order to match.
Where as I called Wilwood, ordered a complete kit. Rotors, calipers, lines, pads all in a well packaged box. Saved 7lbs in the front alone. Ordered a rear kit as well because we needed more rear brake than we were getting from the stock calipers. Saved another 8lbs there. The nice thing with Wilwood is if your out tracking the car and feel you need more rear brake or front brake, you can order a new caliper with larger or smaller pistons for $250. They have a tech department that'll listen to what you need and they support the community.

Searching the autocross and road racing section of corvette forum is where I read about wilwood flexing. They don’t really have favorable reviews about wilwood there.

[98ssnova]

Big Red runs Bear brakes... I am going with Brembo only because I score a sweet deal on mine.

[JON Q]

Wasn’t there a thread on here where Mark said unless you have ABS carbon rotors are not a good idea because they are like an on off switch out of no where when they get to temp?

Looking at brakes for my car and was thinking about picking up a set and have been searching for negatives other than the cost or replacement rotors. I can pick up a set of steel rotors for track days though. I’m planning on C5Z stand alone ABS, but I’m not 100% yet if I’m going to do it.

The info is on page 67 on the Jackass build where it is mentioned.
I will be running the same setup that Mark did on my 69 Camaro. I have Jackass's LS9 engine and I have ZR1 carbon ceramic brakes. You will need mono block wheels to clear the massive calipers from the ZR1.

[CamaroAJ]

The info is on page 67 on the Jackass build where it is mentioned.
I will be running the same setup that Mark did on my 69 Camaro. I have Jackass's LS9 engine and I have ZR1 carbon ceramic brakes. You will need mono block wheels to clear the massive calipers from the ZR1.

Thank you, that was exactly what I was talking about. I picked up a set of the brakes yesterday. I already have all the C5Z ABS parts as thats been part of my build from day 1 so hopefully I'll be ok. I'm getting a set of Boze wheels for the car in a 19 and 20 so I should be ok. I figure once I start being able to track the car I'll pick up a set of iron rotors and swap them out for track days.

[cjfirstgen]

The vast majority of the Optima Ultimate Street Car GTV (Vintage) class builds are running Wilwood with only one running Baer. Certainly a few are running Brembo or AP Racing brakes but most are newer applications.

[raustinss]

So is everyone saying that for some spirited street driving ... maybe the one or 2 trips down the strip a yr is ok with carbon rotors ? Not good for any more formal type of racing ?

[DOOM]

I think Mario (Doom) struggled with them as well, but it may have been something other than the fact they were ceramics. I don’t believe he did ABS either. Hopefully he’s been able to put some miles on the car and provide some insights.

One of the biggest mistakes I made .:G-Dub: It's been a constant battle that I'm not going to win. I can tell you one thing for sure they DO NOT work with manual master cylinder . I contacted Brembo to ask if there was anything I could do . And the answer was no. I'm going to remove the C6 ZR1 calipers and rotors over the winter and run a new setup. I wanna stay with Brembo hopefully they have something that will work with my current setup will see . If you wanna give me a call shoot me a PM I'll send you my number.

[CamaroAJ]

One of the biggest mistakes I made .:G-Dub: It's been a constant battle that I'm not going to win. I can tell you one thing for sure they DO NOT work with manual master cylinder . I contacted Brembo to ask if there was anything I could do . And the answer was no. I'm going to remove the C6 ZR1 calipers and rotors over the winter and run a new setup. I wanna stay with Brembo hopefully they have something that will work with my current setup will see . If you wanna give me a call shoot me a PM I'll send you my number.

If the master and pedal setup was your problem I should be ok. I'm using C6 pedals, ZR1 booster, and the ZR1 master cylinder. In the Jackass 2.0 link a few posts up Mark explained they are specific for the ZR1 brakes and gave some part numbers.

[DOOM]

If the master and pedal setup was your problem I should be ok. I'm using C6 pedals, ZR1 booster, and the ZR1 master cylinder. In the Jackass 2.0 link a few posts up Mark explained they are specific for the ZR1 brakes and gave some part numbers.

My setup is manual no booster.

[MtotheIKEo]

What’s the reasoning for using taking off the track oriented rotor at the track? Just to keep from having to replace them?
Seems backwards to use the track rotor for street driving and the street rotor for track use.

[CamaroAJ]

What’s the reasoning for using taking off the track oriented rotor at the track? Just to keep from having to replace them?
Seems backwards to use the track rotor for street driving and the street rotor for track use.

Depends on how you drive they don't last and are a lot more experience to replace. Someone out with very little track experience and doesn't push will never have a problem. Someone with more experience and pushing will trash the rotors rather quickly. Carbon Ceramic are not the same as the carbon fiber rotors that race cars use.

[clill]

The corvette carbon rotors will last you forever.i remember being told GM testing went thru 20 sets of pads before changing rotors. The problem I had with Jackass on the track was under hard braking the rotor gets hot and the grip quadrupled and locked up. I slid thru the grass. Stielow was smart enough to modulate the pedal. Street driving was fine. Hard to explain but your foot is slowing you down but instantly it is like you slammed on them as the grip quadrupled. Not something you want to have to deal with.

[mfain]

I have CCBs on my ACR and my C6 Z06/Z07, and I never have trouble with either one. I track the ACR hard and street drive the Corvette. The Corvette's brakes will probably outlast me. You have to do a proper brake burnishing - period. I use the Dodge process rather than GM's because I don't like the idea of coming to a full stop (50 times) with your foot on the brake (and pads against the rotor). Dodge uses a higher speed, less repetitions, and slowing to 20 mph vice a full stop. The rotors do fine unless you wear the pads too far or overheat and damage them with a bad burnishing process - then the pad roughs up the rotor and the wear starts and accelerates from there. As far as track performance goes, the CCBs are superb - never fade and are consistent as hell. The reduced unsprung weight is a nice side benefit. With that said, I am swapping the StopTechs (never used) out on my dedicated track car project for big AP Racing brakes. For pure track use their performance appears to be unmatched.

Pappy

[CamaroAJ]

The corvette carbon rotors will last you forever.i remember being told GM testing went thru 20 sets of pads before changing rotors. The problem I had with Jackass on the track was under hard braking the rotor gets hot and the grip quadrupled and locked up. I slid thru the grass. Stielow was smart enough to modulate the pedal. Street driving was fine. Hard to explain but your foot is slowing you down but instantly it is like you slammed on them as the grip quadrupled. Not something you want to have to deal with.

I have CCBs on my ACR and my C6 Z06/Z07, and I never have trouble with either one. I track the ACR hard and street drive the Corvette. The Corvette's brakes will probably outlast me. You have to do a proper brake burnishing - period. I use the Dodge process rather than GM's because I don't like the idea of coming to a full stop (50 times) with your foot on the brake (and pads against the rotor). Dodge uses a higher speed, less repetitions, and slowing to 20 mph vice a full stop. The rotors do fine unless you wear the pads too far or overheat and damage them with a bad burnishing process - then the pad roughs up the rotor and the wear starts and accelerates from there. As far as track performance goes, the CCBs are superb - never fade and are consistent as hell. The reduced unsprung weight is a nice side benefit. With that said, I am swapping the StopTechs (never used) out on my dedicated track car project for big AP Racing brakes. For pure track use their performance appears to be unmatched.

Pappy

I'm happy that I got them then. Brake cooling has been part of my build plan so I should be ok with the heat part of it. I'm going to be running a stand along C5 Z06 system so hopefully that system will be ok with it. I don't see why it wouldn't though.

[alex n]

I have the carbon ceramic ZR1 brakes on my 70 Camaro project , however I’m using the bear remaster master cylinder and a Hydro boost set up , the car is not done yet but I hope I will be OK , anybody have any input on that set up

[alex n]

Anyone