Early 2nd gen Formula carbon hood and hood pin options wanted

[cpd004]

Looking for feedback on 70-73 Firebird Formula carbon hoods. As far as I know, there are 2 options...Anvil & Carbon Kustoms. Specifically interested in fit and finish along with any issues that may have popped up.

I've talked to Albert in the past. Getting the hood stateside adds significant cost. That is also a factor. I've never talked with anyone at Anvil. Neither one shows much feedback through a search here.

Also, there many hood pin options. Curious what you guys prefer and why.

[carbuff]

I have one of Albert's carbon shaker / Trans Am hoods sitting here at my house at the moment. It was an early one that Albert built and had on his own car. He had installed the Aerocatch hood latches in the hood.

I bought the hood knowing that the weave pattern wasn't perfect on this one, but it still looks very good. He did a great job of mimicking the original underside structure of the hood. If you cleaned it up and painted it, one would have to take a second look to realize it's not the original metal structure.

And the hood is amazingly light! I have a VFN fiberglass hood on TOW, and I've moved both hoods around a lot. I thought the VFN was light, but it's almost heavy compared to the carbon hood. Truly a surprising difference.

I was all set to use the carbon hood on TOW, but unfortunately it will not fit due to my oil tank location. I made that based on the VFN hood which is different in that area and has more clearance. It was an expensive lesson for me unfortunately.

I run the Aerocatch latches on my VFN hood also and really like them. I originally had the Ring Brother's hood pins. They are high quality, but I really didn't like having pins in the hood and much prefer the latches. They are not very expensive, cheaper even than the pins if I remember correctly. Either will take some cutting and effort to install, but isn't hard. I have mine mounted in a side to side orientation to fit into a channel of the VFN hood. Albert had his mounted front to back. Either will work.

I can't comment on the long-term quality of the hood other than to say it's in good shape as received from Albert, and it's been on a car which was driven. My intention was to paint it, so I didn't care about any imperfections in the weave. I expect newer units are very good.

And you are correct about getting it across the border. One thing with Albert is he will work with you as best he can to help with that. He travels to and from the states often it seems, so he might be able to get a hood across the border and then ship it to save some on costs. Just chat with him and see what he might be able to do.

Good luck!

[cpd004]

Thank you for all the info! I'll have touch base with Albert.

I'd still like to hear some feedback on Anvil. Surprisingly, a search doesn't reveal much at all.

I prefer a flatter latch over a pin myself as well.

[OLDFLM]

I'm friends with Albert as well as Matt @ Anvil.

I've had Anvil's 100% CF hood on my Formula for over 10 years without issue and I constantly get comments on how great it looks!

I also have their CF nose, lower front valance, trunk/spoiler and the rear filler panel between the taillights on my car... again for over 10 years with no issues.

I don't think you can go wrong with Matt or Albert's products honestly!

Anvil's Formula hood is a quality piece... as are all their other products we put on my car! HTH

[NOT A TA]

I'm friends with Albert as well as Matt @ Anvil.

I've had Anvil's 100% CF hood on my Formula for over 10 years without issue and I constantly get comments on how great it looks!

I also have their CF nose, lower front valance, trunk/spoiler and the rear filler panel between the taillights on my car... again for over 10 years with no issues.

I don't think you can go wrong with Matt or Albert's products honestly!

Anvil's Formula hood is a quality piece... as are all their other products we put on my car! HTH

Hoped you'd see this thread TY and give a longevity update.

Here's "young" Ty hard at work on the hood latches. hahaha

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/SEMA%20thrash%20at%20Fletchers/FirebirdTAdashbuild268.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/SEMA%20thrash%20at%20Fletchers/FirebirdTAdashbuild268.jpg.html)

[cpd004]

Thanks for the replies!

Who makes the hinges you used and how do you feel about them?

[NOT A TA]

Thanks for the replies!

Who makes the hinges you used and how do you feel about them?

IIRC the hinges were Fesler, Ty can verify when he pops in.

[OLDFLM]

Hood hinges and most of the other billet on my car is from Fesler!

Hood hinges, door jamb vents, door strikers, hood adjusters, fender braces... 7" halogen headlights and billet 70-73 Firebird tail light bezels!

All high quality stuff with no issues for over a decade!

I highly recommend them for your Camaro!

https://www.shopfesler.com/1970-1981-camaro/

[OLDFLM]

Here's "young" Ty hard at work on the hood latches. hahaha

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/NOTATA/SEMA%20thrash%20at%20Fletchers/FirebirdTAdashbuild268.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/NOTATA/media/SEMA%20thrash%20at%20Fletchers/FirebirdTAdashbuild268.jpg.html)

That's me cringing at the thought of drilling/screwing holes into that 100% Anvil carbon fiber hood! LOL

[carbuff]

I used the Fesler hinges on my car also. I don't know if others have experienced the same problem, but I have had all sorts of issues getting the hood to sit down in the back when I have the gas struts installed. I have a set of the lowest pressure units which will hold the hood up when open, so it's not that I'm running a set that is too strong.

One of the problems with the Firebird (which I think is different from a Camaro) is that the fenders have a lip which will prevent the hinge from going down as far as the slots would allow. That is a part of the problem. You can see what I'm talking about if you look closely at the picture below. Just to the left of the post where the strut would attach:

https://i.imgur.com/2sNB85A.jpg

You can see that I'm not completely bottomed on either slot (close on the front), but I'm touching the fender. I don't really want to cut the fenders here, so see below as to how I decided to attack it.

In addition, if you use the cowl to hood seal, it puts pressure on the back of the hood which can push up on it also. A steel hood has plenty of weight to crush that seal.

I very much like the Fesler hinges, so this is not a criticism of them. But if I remove the struts, I can get everything aligned perfectly. So at the moment, I leave the struts off. I know of at least 1 other car which has a carbon hood which also leaves the struts off, but I don't know which brand hinges he uses (RB or Fesler).

FWIW, this bothered me so much that I paid a local fabricator a small fortune to 3D scan the plates, modify them in SolidWorks to raise the slot, and build me a pair. I've then had them anodized. I don't have them on the car at the moment, but sometime soon I will reinstall them and try to use my struts again.

Not sure how helpful that was, but it was my chance to vent a little... :)

[OLDFLM]

I don't have that issue at all Bryan... I'm running their 850N shock with the red dot on the back and it works fine. I've never gotten around to putting a cowl seal on my car... HTH:

350N = Orange (79 lbf)
500N = White (112 lbf)
600N = Yellow (135 lbf)
700N = Gold (157 lbf)
850N = Red (191 lbf)
950N = Purple (214 lbf)
1050N = Blue (236 lbf)
1150N = Silver (259 lbf)
1300N = Green (292 lbf)
1500N = Pink (337 lbf)

Black struts will be marked with color coded dots on the area where the rod goes into the cylinder. Polished Stainless Steel Struts will be lightly engraved with the pressure.
This engraving will be on the smooth, flat part of the cylinder... opposite end from where the rod goes into the cylinder.

[carbuff]

You have the full list of pressures, I only had two points which I wrote down. That list is helpful. I have the black struts with the Gold dots, so 700N (I had written down 750N, but also 157 ft-lb, so we're talking about the same strength). So you are using a stronger one than I am.

Our of curiosity, do you have the same issue with the hinge bottoming on the lip of the fender as I showed in my image? I'm guessing not if you have good alignment...

One thing about the carbon hoods: they are going to be MUCH stronger/stiffer than my fiberglass hood. The first one I had on the car buckled up about 3" in the middle the first time I drove it and was parked in the sun for 3 hours. We did our best to flatten it out, but it was never right (you can see it in most of my pictures). I just replaced the hood finally earlier this year. One of the reasons for being a bit gun shy about 'forcing' it down against the struts is that I don't want to replace it again. I'm convinced the carbon would tolerate that much better, and that was the reason I purchased the one I have.

FWIW though, I had similar issues getting that hood to sit down in back with the struts in place. Perhaps something on my car just isn't aligned quite right.

Regardless, thanx for that list, it is handy.

[cpd004]

The back of the hood sitting high is one of the issues on my stock Formula hood. I never thought to check that lip.

It was the VFN hood that buckled correct, Bryan? I see Anvil has a mix of fiberglass and carbon as a cheaper alternative. Wonder if buckling would be a concern.

[carbuff]

Correct, the VFN hood buckled. The hood is made in 2 pieces, the lower which is the support structure and the top which is mostly just the top flat. They are then bonded together.

The channels that run front to back just aren't very strong, and those are what buckled. On this new one, I had VFN reinforce those internally by adding some metal to hopefully help solve this problem. But I'm gun shy...

I would expect the Anvil piece to be much better in this area.

As for the lip, are you using stock hinges right now? I would expect those to be fine.

I briefly had a set of the RB hinges which I tried, but those didn't seem to be much better. To be fair, I didn't spent a lot of time trying to adjust those. If I had to compare the two I would say the RB were a little 'stiffer' in terms of side to side movement which could be both a good and a bad thing. It's harder to adjust / install if there is too much stiffness. But they were a nice piece. The other issue was the position of the strut mounts. This was more of an issue specific to me as my oil tank is in the way on the passenger side, and it's a tight fit on the driver side too with my cage down bars. On a different car that wouldn't have been an issue...

[cpd004]

As far as I know they are stock and original to the car. I spent the better part of a weekend adjusting and readjusting the hinges never being able to get it to sit low enough in the back. The hood didn't follow the fenders too well either. The hood looks to be undamaged and in good shape. It very well may be warped, but doesn't show in an obvious way. It is extremely heavy.

Lightening up the front of the car would be great if it also solves the hood fitment issues.

Thank you guys for all of the feedback.

[cpd004]

One of the problems with the Firebird (which I think is different from a Camaro) is that the fenders have a lip which will prevent the hinge from going down as far as the slots would allow. That is a part of the problem. You can see what I'm talking about if you look closely at the picture below. Just to the left of the post where the strut would attach:

https://i.imgur.com/2sNB85A.jpg

You can see that I'm not completely bottomed on either slot (close on the front), but I'm touching the fender. I don't really want to cut the fenders here, so see below as to how I decided to attack it.


I'm debating cutting the lip to see if that gets me a more reasonable fit. I don't want to, but the fact that you are having problems with aftermarket parts that aren't too much different than what I have going on factory equipped, is making me lean towards that.