72 Camaro

[vstol]

This is where I am coming from https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44704 and going with this 72, I just purchased. It has been a little while since I sold my Corvette after my son’s (LtCol Kevin Herrmann, USMC pilot) death on 6 Dec 2018, as a result of a F-18 striking is aircraft during refueling, He and his crew of 4 were killed and we are finally burying him in Arlington 23 July. They recovered the cockpit at 16,000 ft after 6 months. During my 27 yrs in the USMC as a pilot, I buried a lot of friends just never thought that one would be my son.
My wife and daughter said I need another project to keep me busy besides my son’s wife and three wonderful granddaughters who are currently living with us, so I thought a second gen would be a great start. No more Corvettes as they are just too cramped inside for me as I grow wiser.
This 72 has a 350/350, gears M23 4spd and a 12 posi with 342 gears and a very solid body, interior is good for now and nice paint.
I have researched the heck out of these threads for 2nd gen Camaro’s and still a little undecided where I am going. I do know the chrome wheels are going and I need 275 x 18 on the front and would like 335/315 in the rear. A small block like something like the 600hp 427 FI Blueprint engine I had in my vette but open to carbureted as well but this time an automatic. The body and frame ares rust free and the paint and body work are certainly good for now but not very fond of silver. The only body work I anticipate are wheel tubs.
I am open for suggestions as I am going to tackle the suspension first. Looks like a four link set up is preferred but have seen keeping the leaf springs and there are several viable options out there. I need to change the rear gearing from 342, but will wait until I have my engine and transmission ideas. How much can the 12 bolt take with the c clips?
Note: I plan on doing some fun auto crossing and take it on the track for some fun road course stints but still want to hop in and drive with AC.
Many thanks as this will take some time 1(yr).

[WSSix]

Looks like a great starting point.

I'd put more tire up front if you put a 335 out back.

Moser makes housing ends for the 12bolt that allow you to run big Ford taper bearings so you can eliminate the c-clips. This is what I did with my 10 bolt. Kore3 has brake kits that will work with these new ends, as well.

Good luck with the project. Loved what you did with the vette so I'm looking forward to what you do with this one.

[Gmachine1911]

Let me just say thank you for your family's service and sacrifice, my sincere condolences.
Looks like you've got a fantastic car to start with! I went with all DSE suspension in my 68 with the goal of driving it on both the street and track. The suspension has excellent street manners and the ride quality is very good when you dial the shocks back. The next best thing is having cold AC blowing on you!
As far as the rear end, I wouldn't be concerned about a 600hp motor destroying a 12 bolt unless it has underlying issues to begin with. I'd definitely check it out (wear pattern, axles bearing surfaces, end-play, etc.) but most of us don't completely abuse these things to their limit...we over-build them and baby them except for track days where they get heavy duty use but we're not dumping the clutch or neutral bombing the trans at 3,000rpm with full on race slicks.

[vstol]

Thanks for your comments all very good and the way I am heading. Thanks G-Machine we buried my son yesterday in Arlington it was magnificent. Kevin

[vstol]

Ok I have 275's in the rear looking for suggestions to get more meat for the money underneath. Yes performance counts as well. Thanks

[WSSix]

I believe you can get a 305 if you roll the fender lip and remove the rear seat belt bulge that's at the front of the well. How low you go with the ride height will have a huge effect on this, too. The fenders are draped/streched over the wheels. You can't go up into the well much at all before you're hitting the top of the well.

You can definitely fit a 305 or 315 if you do a DIY mini tub by cutting out the inner fender and moving it over just enough so that the inner part is flush with the the frame rail. Before DSE came along, this is how it was done. It's like a 2 or 3 inch widening. The design of the tubs is such that you end up welding in a flat sheet of metal, not a fancy contoured piece. Get under the car and look up into the wheel well and you should notice the frame rail sits to the inside of the tub and the top of the tubs where they are welded together is fairly uniform and flat. You're just moving the tub over enough to take advantage of the space that's available without cutting into the rail.

Good luck. Spend some time trying to get the widest tire up front that you can, too.

[vstol]

The leaf spring is an issue, hard to move :) and I do plan on tubbing (mini) too get the tire I want. So many companies make a kit to relocate the leaf springs as well as 4 link. Just researching

[vstol]

Heidts 4 link set up you can not mini tub so a 275 is max, Ride tech 4 link they said I could fit a 315 easily under it if I mini tub it, DSE I need a new gas tank to make it work etc.. Not sure about BMI still researching it

[OLDFLM]

FWIW I'm able to run a 295/40/18 on my Firebird with plenty of room to go 305/315 without a minitub and it's completely bolt-on.

[vstol]

FWIW I'm able to run a 295/40/18 on my Firebird with plenty of room to go 305/315 without a minitub and it's completely bolt-on.

Any pictures of the wheels/tires underneath this set up? It looks really nice however I am looking at it and it is very tight especially without the mini wheel tubs. Thanks

[OLDFLM]

The 295s fit great with the BMR Torque Arm and I think even with the flatter wheel opening on your Camaro they would work if you look at how far inside the wheel lip the tires are tucked on my car. There's also good clearance before the tire would contact the rear of the inner wheel well on the inside. Early Firebirds don't have the seat belt bludge in the front of the inner wheel well but if your Camaro does a BFH should easily adjust for any needed clearance there.

[vstol]

The 295s fit great with the BMR Torque Arm and I think even with the flatter wheel opening on your Camaro they would work if you look at how far inside the wheel lip the tires are tucked on my car. There's also good clearance before the tire would contact the rear of the inner wheel well on the inside. Early Firebirds don't have the seat belt bludge in the front of the inner wheel well but if your Camaro does a BFH should easily adjust for any needed clearance there.

Thanks this really helps how do you like the setup? I spoke with BMR today and they are pretty much saying what you are and a mini tub even better. Did you keep your C-clips or go with a C-clip eliminator? I assume the stock gas tank still fits.

[OLDFLM]

Stock rear end upgraded 31-spline axles, posi, KORE3 brakes, etc.

Stock Goodmark replacement tank... 3" exhaust cleared everything... 2.5" tailpipes would be even better/easier.

I LOVE the ride with the BMR torque arm and their uppers/lowers and sway bar up front! I have AFCO coilovers front and rear... the ride is very compliant and comfortable, yet also very solid with great traction and cornering. I think it's the best of everything honestly!

You'll find other threads where the torque arm and 3/4-links are compared and for a dual purpose street/track car most all agree that a torque arm is the way to go...

My 2 cents. HTH

[ZMAN1969]

vstol, thank you and your family for service and sacrifice.
I like the direction of your build and I have one suggestion or actually more of a pet peeve of mine would be to complete the rest of the front RS "split bumper" front end (U+L headers and endura nose and grills) or go back to a std front bumper. I guess it was bought like this, good looking car otherwise, I guess I'm a bit of a purist

[vstol]

Stock rear end upgraded with C-clip eliminators, 31-spline axles, posi, etc.

Stock Goodmark replacement tank... 3" exhaust cleared everything... 2.5" tailpipes would be even better/easier.

I LOVE the ride with the BMR torque arm and their uppers/lowers and sway bar up front! I have AFCO coilovers front and rear... the ride is very compliant and comfortable, yet also very solid with great traction and cornering. I think it's the best of everything honestly!

You'll find other threads where the torque arm and 3/4-links are compared and for a dual purpose street/track car most all agree that a torque arm is the way to go...

My 2 cents. HTH
Thanks

[vstol]

vstol, thank you and your family for service and sacrifice.
I like the direction of your build and I have one suggestion or actually more of a pet peeve of mine would be to complete the rest of the front RS "split bumper" front end (U+L headers and endura nose and grills) or go back to a std front bumper. I guess it was bought like this, good looking car otherwise, I guess I'm a bit of a purist

No purist here as you can see from my other builds. Do you have a picture of what you are talking about?

[vstol]

Stock rear end upgraded with C-clip eliminators, 31-spline axles, posi, etc.

Stock Goodmark replacement tank... 3" exhaust cleared everything... 2.5" tailpipes would be even better/easier.

I LOVE the ride with the BMR torque arm and their uppers/lowers and sway bar up front! I have AFCO coilovers front and rear... the ride is very compliant and comfortable, yet also very solid with great traction and cornering. I think it's the best of everything honestly!

You'll find other threads where the torque arm and 3/4-links are compared and for a dual purpose street/track car most all agree that a torque arm is the way to go...

My 2 cents. HTH

with the c lip eliminaters what brake set up did you use?

[OLDFLM]

One call to Tobin at KORE3 and you'll be set!

I've been running his manual C5/C6 hybrid setup front and rear with a Wilwood master cylinder.

[rixtrix1]

with the c lip eliminaters what brake set up did you use?

C-clip elininators are really just for drag racing as the bearings are really too small for any serious corner carving. Every one I've seen or serviced leaked from the kit to axle o-ring. Even standard "ford-type" bearings are really not very long lasting, especially if you plan on a lot of miles. JMO

[vstol]

One call to Tobin at KORE3 and you'll be set!

I've been running his manual C5/C6 hybrid setup front and rear with a Wilwood master cylinder.

great thanks

[vstol]

C-clip elininators are really just for drag racing as the bearings are really too small for any serious corner carving. Every one I've seen or serviced leaked from the kit to axle o-ring. Even standard "ford-type" bearings are really not very long lasting, especially if you plan on a lot of miles. JMO

Thanks

[vstol]

Good call here is what Moser has on their WEB site about C-Clip eliminators:


Can C-Clip Eliminators be used on the street?

A. We do NOT recommend using C-Clip Eliminators for street use; a C-Clip Eliminator is made for drag race only ( As a safety issue so you do not loose an axle, if it breaks ).C-Clip Eliminators are made for the straight shot down the strip. If you use C-Clip Eliminators on the street the aluminum block will eventually flex from cornering or just going around curves causing the C-Clip Eliminator to leak Rear-end fluid.

[WSSix]

That's why I recommended you change the housing ends to the big Ford ends which will hold Torino tapered bearings. Here's what I put on my 10 bolt. Pretty sure it'll fit your 12 bolt, too. Tobin/Kore3 has a kit that will fit these ends.

https://www.moserengineering.com/7900FM%20-%20small-chevy-car-uses-9-ford-large-bearing-and-non-c-clip-axles.item

[vstol]

That's why I recommended you change the housing ends to the big Ford ends which will hold Torino tapered bearings. Here's what I put on my 10 bolt. Pretty sure it'll fit your 12 bolt, too. Tobin/Kore3 has a kit that will fit these ends.

https://www.moserengineering.com/7900FM%20-%20small-chevy-car-uses-9-ford-large-bearing-and-non-c-clip-axles.item

Thanks I will give them call tomorrow. Took it out to flush out the issues and the front end is certainly in need of tightening up to include shocks. The engine is very stout for a 350, its cam is pretty pronounced, still want more power. The M23 shifts a lot better than my TKO which is surprising.

[vstol]

That's why I recommended you change the housing ends to the big Ford ends which will hold Torino tapered bearings. Here's what I put on my 10 bolt. Pretty sure it'll fit your 12 bolt, too. Tobin/Kore3 has a kit that will fit these ends.

https://www.moserengineering.com/7900FM%20-%20small-chevy-car-uses-9-ford-large-bearing-and-non-c-clip-axles.item

I spoke with Moser and they stick to what I took off their web site and do not recommend C-Clips eliminators except for drag racing. Once I get my engine and new trans setup I will attack the suspension. Would like to sell the 350/drivetrain first.

[ZMAN1969]

No purist here as you can see from my other builds. Do you have a picture of what you are talking about?

https://i.imgur.com/39t1QFf.jpg

this is a real split bumper front end -see above- notice the park lights are round on upper valence and above bumpers what some people do is remove the STD long bumper and leave U&L valances std and park lights are below the bumper
also on the RS front end there is an extended "beak" if you will that protrudes forward
that's all, in previous years RS cars had the hideaway lights and different taillights the 70-72 they changed from fender to fender and hood forward
carry on now :RunninDog:

[vstol]

https://i.imgur.com/39t1QFf.jpg

this is a real split bumper front end -see above- notice the park lights are round on upper valence and above bumpers what some people do is remove the STD long bumper and leave U&L valances std and park lights are below the bumper
also on the RS front end there is an extended "beak" if you will that protrudes forward
that's all, in previous years RS cars had the hideaway lights and different taillights the 70-72 they changed from fender to fender and hood forward
carry on now :RunninDog:

Thanks, I see the difference. I had a 396 Camaro when I was 18 I wish I had it back.

[WSSix]

I spoke with Moser and they stick to what I took off their web site and do not recommend C-Clips eliminators except for drag racing. Once I get my engine and new trans setup I will attack the suspension. Would like to sell the 350/drivetrain first.

What did they recommend? I'm not recommending a c-clip eliminator kit.

[vstol]

What did they recommend? I'm not recommending a c-clip eliminator kit.

Trey let me regroup with them I might have miss led them I thought you were advocating for C-clip eliminators.

[vstol]

That's why I recommended you change the housing ends to the big Ford ends which will hold Torino tapered bearings. Here's what I put on my 10 bolt. Pretty sure it'll fit your 12 bolt, too. Tobin/Kore3 has a kit that will fit these ends.

https://www.moserengineering.com/7900FM%20-%20small-chevy-car-uses-9-ford-large-bearing-and-non-c-clip-axles.item

Trey I called Moser and now I understand what you were saying. Big Ford housing ends with new axels so they can have the tapered bearings. Got it and thanks. You said you like your AFCO Coil over shocks?

[WSSix]

Correct. You're going to have to take your rear end apart and to a chassis shop to have these new ends welded on. You'll have to get custom axles from Moser, too. I upgraded my posi to a detroit tru-trac with higher spline count while I was there. I doubt you need to do the same with your posi, but now would be the time if you're thinking about it.

I'm running Viking coil overs from CustomWorks on the front. Unfortunately, I haven't driven the car enough to say how well I like them. Really hoping to have the car back down on the ground in September.

[vstol]

Correct. You're going to have to take your rear end apart and to a chassis shop to have these new ends welded on. You'll have to get custom axles from Moser, too. I upgraded my posi to a detroit tru-trac with higher spline count while I was there. I doubt you need to do the same with your posi, but now would be the time if you're thinking about it.

I'm running Viking coil overs from CustomWorks on the front. Unfortunately, I haven't driven the car enough to say how well I like them. Really hoping to have the car back down on the ground in September.

Thanks Trey

[Gscherer78ta]

I used to run the Viking Double Adjustables at the four corners, and when I went with the DSE front Speed kit II and switched in the JRi adjustable shocks, it made a HUGE difference in the ride quality! Linda Jacobs was telling me that it would make a difference and I didn't believe her. I still have the Viking's in the rear but the JRi in the front I highly recommend. My TA with it's mostly track oriented suspension is a way better ride than my 02 Firehawk.

[vstol]

Thank you, what size tire are you running up front with DSE set up

[Gscherer78ta]

Thank you, what size tire are you running up front with DSE set up

275/35/18 azenis square.

[vstol]

Not any progress but will turn on it once the engine and drive train are sold. Not sure why the pictures are not sitting correctly. Sorry

[vstol]

I think I am leaning twds the BMR setup