1969 Mustang Fastback w/ Detroit Speed suspension

[jeff71]

I figured after 12yrs on the forum it was about time for me to post my latest project. I was given the car about 7-8yrs ago by my uncle, I believe he bought sometime in the early 80’s. For the last 18-20mos or so I with a good friend have been doing some upgrades although I’ve been stalled on it for roughly 10-12mos due to life, kids etc we’ve gotten a ton done in the last 3 wks. It’s getting DSE suspension, mild 302ci, 5spd, disk brakes, RECARO seats it’s kind of a basic/budget build with some used CL parts except the suspension of course. I decided to not paint it For now because the intent was to have fun, do some track days and autocross and figured why bother. It was painted before I acquired it and it’s definitely a 20 footer I figured I’ll probably wrap it at a later date.

Updates will come pretty quick as we are pretty much done with the install and hope to have it fired by the end of the month.

The first pic is how I remember it as a kid circa mid 80’s.

[CurtiSS 69]

Hello Jeff,

Great car. This body style is one of my all time favorites, and it will be really good to see it on the road & on the track. Can't wait for some updates, and hearing about the track experiences. Let the good times roll!

Regards

CurtiSS 69

[WSSix]

Awesome! I much prefer the 69 to the 70 cars. Please keep us updated and good luck with the build.

[jeff71]

Thanks guys. Heres a few more..... Had some pitting on the frame rails

[jeff71]

few more....

[jeff71]

more pics

[will69camaro]

Easily my favorite body style mustang. I will have one some day.

Looking forward to the updates!

[Matt@BOS]

You're going to love the DSE Alumaframe! I've put 20k miles + on mine, both on the street and the track, and have had zero issues!

[67XR7]

Jeez what a POS. lol

[jeff71]

Jeez what a POS. lol

Yes POS! Only cause the “two” guys working on it are.......

[jarhead]

looking forward to this build!

I don't think you can use the words budget and DSE in the same sentence :headscratch:

[will69camaro]

looking forward to this build!

I don't think you can use the words budget and DSE in the same sentence :headscratch:

"I went with DSE, as budget was not an issue."

Same sentence, for example purposes only.

[67XR7]

looking forward to this build!

I don't think you can use the words budget and DSE in the same sentence :headscratch:

Believe it or not, once we sat down and compared to let's say a Mike Maier setup it was pretty close in cost. in order to keep it apples to apples, we accounted for power steering upgrade, steering rebuild, sway bar, spindle upgrade and all. Then factor in the little price break received on the DSE stuff and it was close. If I remember right, it was less than $500. The only real difference is: the DSE cost is up front VS the installment plan when you're able to upgrade a piece at a time using other bolt-on suspensions.

[rustomatic]

There is no point in bringing up costs here. You can get a (seriously) used Corvette C5 for less (or same money) than the DSE Alumaframe setup. The C5 comes with both ends of a car, along with propulsion, seats, and a roof. Motivation is that of the owner, so all power to him (or her) . . .

Nice choice of Mustang vintage, by the way!

[214Chevy]

Cool Mustang. Look forward to seeing the finished product.

[jeff71]

more pics...

[jarhead]

I was actually joking :stirthepot: , i love the choices.

Will handle very nice!

[JPhil]

You have an amazing project, I have always enjoyed the body lines for that series of Car. It brings tears of joy every time I open a box from Detroit Speed makes some beautiful parts. LOL

[CurtiSS 69]

Believe it or not, once we sat down and compared to let's say a Mike Maier setup it was pretty close in cost. in order to keep it apples to apples, we accounted for power steering upgrade, steering rebuild, sway bar, spindle upgrade and all. Then factor in the little price break received on the DSE stuff and it was close. If I remember right, it was less than $500. The only real difference is: the DSE cost is up front VS the installment plan when you're able to upgrade a piece at a time using other bolt-on suspensions.

That is infinite wisdom. When you are putting $25-50K total into a car $500 isjust nothing. Looking at it as a total project with a solid end goal that's major insight. Plus when you go that way you don't have re-engineer all the individual parts that didn't quite work with one and other. That alone is likely more than $500! If I just had $5 for every time that happened.

Regards

CurtiSS 69

[jeff71]

Fitting the DSE shock tower delete panels....

[jeff71]

Playing with tire mock up. DSE Aluma Frame allows for a 295 up front with no fender mods I think It could actually fit a 305, this pic is a 275.

[BigBronco]

Wonderful progress! Look forward to watching this build move along!

[jeff71]

Some header mock up. I don't remember which ones we tried exactly none of which would work without modifications. We also tried 3 different bell housings, T5, 4spd & Lakewood. Stock manifolds work!

[jeff71]

We ended up working with JBA to make headers for this application which are now available for anyone who's entertaining the DSE AlumaFrame in a Mustang or Cougar, PN# 31658S.

We mocked up several brands of headers and (3) different bell housings. These JBA's will work with a 4spd bell, T5 & Lakewood with a SBF. Although I did decide to cut off a about 1-1/4'" off the collector before welding the V-bands on to assure the collector was tucked above the frame rail.

[jeff71]

After trying a couple different oil pans I ended up with the Aviaid 155-55301-302 and a 12” dipstick. For reference we tried 2 other pans that would work, DSS Racing (don’t recall #pn) and the Ford Racing M-6675-A50 both clear everything and don’t hang below the Alumaframe. Note though the Ford Racing pan doesn’t have a dipstick provision and is meant to be used with the Fox body 5.0 block which has the dipstick through the block and not the gen1 SBF unless you modify the pan.

[Roscoe03]

You're project is coming along nicely! The car looks so right with the bigger rubber tucked up in the wheel wells. This is my favorite body style Mustang as well.

[jeff71]

I’m using the Modern Driveline hydraulic clutch conversion with a Tilton throw-out on a T5. As usual some mods were necessary for the bulkhead and bracket to sit flush on the firewall.

[67XR7]

If anyone is interested I created a spreadsheet of oil pans that should fit sbf short deck motors in an alumaframe application. We did lots of measuring, and with reaching out to manufactures and viewing the dimensions on their websites I feel the list is pretty well dialed in. The AVAID pan that ended up in this car was based off of the composed list and fit beautifully!!

As Jeff Said, the headers were a pain at first. multiple off the shelf units that flat out didn't fit. A set of custom headers "guaranteed to fit" which were off. after taking the matter into our own hands, we were able to create a set that would git but needing fine tuning and after working with the fine folks at JBA an off shelf option was developed. the mock set had 1-3/4" primaries to a 3" collector. I believe JBA ended up 1-5/8" as their final design. These things fit great!!! Go into the car with the motor in place, fairly long, lots of ground clearance (Jeff trimmed 1-1/4" off of the collector in case lowering the motor up to 3/4" becomes the way he wants to go) they are up above the frame rail!

It is important to note that these headers should work with a 351w based motor as well as the 302 based (short deck) motor. The guaranteed to fit sets were based on a taller deck motor, and once installed on the shorter deck motor they hit because they were now closer to things they needed to clear (hope that makes sense). since these were based on a short deck, putting them on a taller deck motor should only aid in more clearance.

The beauty of figuring out the headers and oil pan is now a DIY person can pull their ford into the garage, pull the motor, install: aluma frame, already sorted out headers and an oil pan and put the motor back in and realistically be back on the road in no time.

The last thing I want to hit on before ending this book of a post, is brakes. The inexpensive/great brake options I feel are often overlooked when considering the aluma- frame as a suspension option. Jeffs car has C5 (correct me if I'm wrong dude) std brakes which are a 2 pot 13" rotor setup. He was able to find a set of Baer calipers which are basically C5 calipers for a great deal. Off the shelf rotors were drilled to fit the ford pattern using the Daze cars jig (jig was $25)

[SuperB70]

Looks so familiar.
Im building one also. '69 FB Dyna-body, Aluma-frame, Quadralink. 5.4 GT500 SS, custom 6060, 9+ Strange, Forgeline cengerbolt.

Pictures and buildthread when customer allows that.

Not now..

Keep it up..

[jeff71]

Couple more.....

[jarhead]

Nice work, you are moving fast !

[jeff71]

Built new brake lines front to rear and installed the Wilwood master cyl.

[jeff71]

Little bit of a update. Billy Utley from B&B Classics is where I ordered all my DSE parts from, I decided to leave leafs out back for now so Billy was able to set me up with a set from DSE with JRI shocks. Their just leafs so one pic should suffice. Also the engine is in and I'm working through pulley alignment issues which I hope to have resolved this week.

[jeff71]

Pretty much where I am today on the project. The rear should come down when the interior, tank & fuel goes in, I'll add a lowering block if needed. The wheels are not my first choice but are more budget friendly hope to go Fikse someday. Just got a bunch of parts from summit to hopefully finish off the engine and get it fired up soon.

[WSSix]

APEX rims? They look good on the car regardless. You're doing good work. Keep it up!

[jeff71]

I bought those from American Muscle.

[camcojb]

not sure why they are sideways.....

It happens sometimes with phone pics where the photos are taken in portrait mode. There is a workaround though:

Save picture that's sideways in your post to your computer. Open it in a photo program and rotate it 90 degrees. Save it and re-upload it in your post. I just did your third photo above.

[jeff71]

Thanks for the heads up Jody. Added the steering wheel and playing with placement of the seats.

[Dave Pratt]

Jeff she's really coming along now.I really like the seats you've chosen for the Stang.I sent you a pm with a few questions with regards to them.They look super comfortable.Keep up the good work

Dave

[Blake Foster]

Hope you rethink the front brake lines Zip Tied to the control arms?
they are at full droop and tight when you put the weight on the car they will probably either brake the Zip tie or the fitting to hose end.

[jeff71]

Hope you rethink the front brake lines Zip Tied to the control arms?
they are at full droop and tight when you put the weight on the car they will probably either brake the Zip tie or the fitting to hose end.




Thanks for the advice Blake. What would you suggest could be a better option? Should I just let them hang?

Thanks

[jeff71]

it's been awhile since I've updated this thread. The car is running and moving under its own power finally! Monday got a alignment done and started the exhaust.



Im dealing with a leaking 9/16-18 (hot side) fitting on the DSE rack. The fitting came with a Teflon washer, I've now been through three. I've tried copper, drain plug gasket and a O-ring. With the O-ring I used the Loctite 545 hydraulic sealant and without even starting the car as I was allowing time for it to set up it started to seep in about 15-20 minutes.

Anyone else have this problem? Any tips to get a good seal?

If anyone has pics of their DSE rack(any DSE rack) where the fittings thread in and can post a pic I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to see if the casting looks different.

Thanks

[jeff71]

I tried to turn the pics but it didn't work.

Here's a few of the DSE rack. FYI that's a cat hair inside.

[dhutton]

The sealing surface doesn’t even look machined so I don’t see how that will ever seal. It’s tough to tell due to the fluid but it looks like it’s machined for a different style adapter, maybe AN or internal o-ring. I’m would contact DSE.

Don

[randy]

I remember someone posting about dse having a run of bad fittings and not machined right. I can take a pic of two dse racks on sat if that helps.

[dhutton]

I remember someone posting about dse having a run of bad fittings and not machined right. I can take a pic of two dse racks on sat if that helps.

Now that you say that I remember that too. Here is the thread:

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/131279-Detroit-Speed-Rack-Fittings?highlight=Rack

Don

[EVIL SS]

Here's a few of the DSE rack. FYI that's a cat hair inside.

I think that fitting needs to be an O-ring boss fitting and not a straight fitting. That wide 45 degree edge is for the o-ring to mush into(my guess).

Is the fitting too long and bottoming out before the ring can seal? You can try a Stat o seal - https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3245&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=3245&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3Y_46KTS6gIVD_DACh3c8QMzEAQYBCAB EgKdIfD_BwE

You can find these at other places too under different names..

[jeff71]

The sealing surface doesn’t even look machined so I don’t see how that will ever seal. It’s tough to tell due to the fluid but it looks like it’s machined for a different style adapter, maybe AN or internal o-ring. I’m would contact DSE.

Don

I've been in contact with DSE and they are saying the chamfered edge is where the seal would come from with either the Teflon washer they provided or a soft metal such as copper or aluminum. The DSE 9/16-18 part number 090210S is what the offer to work with the rack.


Thanks for the link Don. By the way its not bottoming out.

[jeff71]

The sealing surface doesn’t even look machined so I don’t see how that will ever seal. It’s tough to tell due to the fluid but it looks like it’s machined for a different style adapter, maybe AN or internal o-ring. I’m would contact DSE.

Don

I remember someone posting about dse having a run of bad fittings and not machined right. I can take a pic of two dse racks on sat if that helps.

Please if you can take some pics and post.

Thanks!

[jeff71]

I think that fitting needs to be an O-ring boss fitting and not a straight fitting. That wide 45 degree edge is for the o-ring to mush into(my guess).

Is the fitting too long and bottoming out before the ring can seal? You can try a Stat o seal - https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3245&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=3245&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3Y_46KTS6gIVD_DACh3c8QMzEAQYBCAB EgKdIfD_BwE

You can find these at other places too under different names..




I went and bought another fitting today that uses a fairly fat O-ring, I'm gonna try that today.

I'm getting conflicting info about what material should be used, how tight it should be and weather or not to use high pressure hydraulic thread sealant (Loctite 545).

[Musclerodz]

that rack is not machined for teflon washer. requires o-ring and should not require sealant

[jeff71]

that rack is not machined for teflon washer. requires o-ring and should not require sealant

Thanks! DSE never said try a O-ring I took it upon myself to give it a shot. And......woke up this morning to a small amount on the garage floor. It's not the best pic but you can see how the O-ring has torn some. I made sure the O-ring was wet with oil and it still damaged it.........ugh.

[dhutton]

There should be a washer between the fitting and o-ring as far as I know.

Google 9/16-18 ORB and you will see fittings with washers.

Don

[Jim Hoke]

Hey - Just thought I'd chime in on this one. I work for Parker Hannifin, and we make fittings by the ton. The second picture you posted shows a lot of damage around the base of the fitting. Can you take a pic of the female port WITHOUT the fitting in it? There should be a chamfer or countersink at the mouth of the female port - which accepts the o-ring. Either that port is buggered up, or the o-ring is too large in cross section - which will make it bunch up as it runs out of room while being installed. Hope this helps a bit.
Jim

PS. Actually just went back a page and saw the additional pics and comments...… We are getting closer!
#1. Measure from the shoulder / hex of the fitting to the end of the thread - you are trying to determine how deep that fitting will screw into the female port
#2. Now measure from the face of the female port down to where the fitting would bottom out...…. Don't measure to the center of the female port - as it looks like it is deeper there due to a drill point. You need to see what the
shallowest dimension is - out near the outer wall of the female port
#3. How do things compare? Is the male thread too long when compared to the depth of the female port? If so - it won't allow enough compression of the o-ring.
#4. To me - the chamfered edge of the female port looks poorly machined - I am seeing sharp metal there - which can cut that o-ring
#5. Have DSE tell you what that female port is supposed to be...… If it is a 9/16-18 SAE port - that is a standard design that everyone should be machining too. You cn then determine the proper O-ring size for the male fitting.
Using a washer to seal that joint really seems wrong to me. The chamfer at the mouth of the female port is there to accept an O-ring. DSE should know that.

[EVIL SS]

I went and bought another fitting today that uses a fairly fat O-ring, I'm gonna try that today.

I'm getting conflicting info about what material should be used, how tight it should be and weather or not to use high pressure hydraulic thread sealant (Loctite 545).

I think the rack is made for an ORB fitting but, the Stat o seals work too. Parker makes them(and others). The crush of the washer and seal of the rubber is good. If it is steering fluid, I would use a Viton o-ring material. It is strong enough for some real harsh chemicals.

[Musclerodz]

I know its suppose to be a dse rack, but I just looked at your pic again. Are you sure it doesn't use this style fitting?
https://detroitspeed-1.azureedge.net/img/product/090209_1.jpg?fv=E7C1A46A0501979EF5209F4F47968BAA-8516

[jeff71]

I know its suppose to be a dse rack, but I just looked at your pic again. Are you sure it doesn't use this style fitting?
https://detroitspeed-1.azureedge.net/img/product/090209_1.jpg?fv=E7C1A46A0501979EF5209F4F47968BAA-8516

Yeah, I asked about that. They said nope it’s the.....ORB?

I think I got it licked now! I went to a hydraulic shop and he had a better rubber O-ring and it seems to have worked. I put a few miles on it today and all seems good!

[andrewb70]

Looks like you need a washer between the fitting and the o-ring and the o-ring should have a thinner cross section...

Andrew

[jeff71]

Wow does time fly! It’s been a year I’ve been on the road with it and the best way to describe the experience is ........ Love, Hate.

Just to catch up I have somewhere around 1400 miles logged, two Speed SF autocross events and did a AFR head upgrade.

[camcojb]

That's awesome! Very cool to be out enjoying the car.

[jeff71]

Thanks for fixing the pic Jody.

[will69camaro]

Love this build and fully appreciate the Love,Hate relationship. Can you expand on your thoughts?

[jeff71]

Sure.......A few thoughts.


The DSE front clip performs great although I wish the turning radius was better. DSE says max tire size 295 up front and I think with minor mods you can probably fit a 305 but I can't imagine how bad the tramline would be, the tramming with 275's I'm running now is definitely noticeable.

I wish I would sprung for the Qudra Link in the beginning, before I had custom exhaust made, bought a new gas tank & rebuilt the rear end (doing stuff 2x sucks). Getting the ride height to match the front was an ordeal, the leafs ride like crap, I added Global West Delrin bushings to stop lateral flex and eliminate tire rub and it made the ride more harsh.

But....when I drive it like an A-hole......it makes me smile. And I love that!

[WSSix]

Really glad to hear you're getting seat time with the car. They're always works in progress.