Raising upper A arms

[Car Guy]

I'm working on a sports car with IRS that is going to have air bags. I've taken out the coilovers to see how much negative camber the car has. I need to raise up the upper mounting tabs on the frame so I can reposition the angle of the upper a arms so I can reduce the negative camber.

I'm having issues with keeping everything centered once I move everything up from the factory position. How do i keep everything in the stock location, while I move up the mounting brackets?

Do I need to make a jig to hold everything? It's going to be a lot of trial and error to get the right spot, just need to know how to start. Thanks

[rustomatic]

The result, should you continue forward, will completely remove the "sports" component of whatever is left of the usability of the car.

You may wish to seek advice on a stance-focused site. It will likely be a fountain of more "really good" ideas.

I'm working on a sports car with IRS that is going to have air bags. I've taken out the coilovers to see how much negative camber the car has. I need to raise up the upper mounting tabs on the frame so I can reposition the angle of the upper a arms so I can reduce the negative camber.

I'm having issues with keeping everything centered once I move everything up from the factory position. How do i keep everything in the stock location, while I move up the mounting brackets?

Do I need to make a jig to hold everything? It's going to be a lot of trial and error to get the right spot, just need to know how to start. Thanks

[bdahlg68]

I'm working on a sports car with IRS that is going to have air bags. I've taken out the coilovers to see how much negative camber the car has. I need to raise up the upper mounting tabs on the frame so I can reposition the angle of the upper a arms so I can reduce the negative camber.

I'm having issues with keeping everything centered once I move everything up from the factory position. How do i keep everything in the stock location, while I move up the mounting brackets?

Do I need to make a jig to hold everything? It's going to be a lot of trial and error to get the right spot, just need to know how to start. Thanks



If you move the upper arms, you should probably move everything else up as well. Moving just the upper arms will create other issues with geometry. Pics and/or other details on what you are trying to accomplish will be helpful for the crowd here.


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[Car Guy]

If you move the upper arms, you should probably move everything else up as well. Moving just the upper arms will create other issues with geometry. Pics and/or other details on what you are trying to accomplish will be helpful for the crowd here.

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I don't think we are on the same page. All that needs to move is the angle of the upper control arm. Everything else stays where it is. The stock upper control arm is at an angle. As soon as the suspension begins to drop, the negative camber comes into affect.

If I change the angle upward it levels out the camber and will allow me to have less negative camber, correct? I may have to make a longer arm to keep the geometry but I think by having a "longer travel" at an even angle I should be able to reduce the negative camber?

[bdahlg68]

It will change camber gain and everything else too. You could / will end up with some serious issues - like ball joint and half shaft angle issues, roll center and roll axis issues, bump steer issues, etc. You might be able to drive it but you wouldn’t do this for improved performance.


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[Car Guy]

What would be a way to raise everything? Make a new lower control arm with a higher mounting point for the ball joint to the spindle?

I hope that made sense?

Do half shafts need to be completely level or can they operate like a driveshaft can at a slight angle?

Found this online, would a shorter lower control arm solve anything?

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4127SCJg4fL._SX466_.jpg

https://www.z1motorsports.com/images/whitelineradiusbushing300zx2-f1050de8.jpg

[bdahlg68]

That depends on exactly what you are working on and trying to accomplish. Ideally - the chassis would be set up at ride height and body set at the desired position on top of the chassis.

I suspect most people here have this (https://www.motor1.com/news/29898/extreme-negative-camber-trend-amuses-and-bewilders-video/) image in their head based on what you've asked. It's not clear what type of car you're talking about, how much you want to lower the car, why the car is or needs to be so low. Or, what you want to do with it once it's that low.

[Car Guy]

Thanks for the help!

The car is already low from the factory so I want to be able to raise it up when I need to and lay it out at car shows. I want to reduce the negative camber so the wheels will stay vertical for as long as possible. Basically trying to "delay" the camber. I know there has to be some camber I just don't want it to look broke like the example that you showed.

It will only be for when the car is parked and not for driving. I know it's not popular for everyone but I have seen several high end super cars that are bagged. My car is about 4" off the ground in the front and 6" in the rear, so I want to be able to adjust that up and down when I need to.

[bret]

Thanks for the help!

The car is already low from the factory so I want to be able to raise it up when I need to and lay it out at car shows. I want to reduce the negative camber so the wheels will stay vertical for as long as possible. Basically trying to "delay" the camber. I know there has to be some camber I just don't want it to look broke like the example that you showed.

It will only be for when the car is parked and not for driving. I know it's not popular for everyone but I have seen several high end super cars that are bagged. My car is about 4" off the ground in the front and 6" in the rear, so I want to be able to adjust that up and down when I need to.

Ive been in the suspension business for 23 years professionally and I’ve not been able to acheive what you are talking about. If you raise the upper control arm pivots you will minimize/eliminate camber gain during suspension compression. Thats fine for keeping the wheel/tire from leaning in when you drop the car (thats the way Morrision builds their airspring chassis), but it sucks out loud for cornering performance. Thats because the tire is now leaning away from the turn during suspension compression instead of leaning into it like a motorcycle. Thats the way early Mustangs, Camaros, and Chevelles behave from the factory. People pay us to fix that for them so they don’t fear for their lives when they drive those cars hard.
In my mind, the only way to acheive what you are trying to do is to create some sort of moveable upper control arm mount that you could actuate maybe with a ballscrew or hydraulic mechanism.
Its not impossible. Some of my best patents were developed because of impossibility 😊

[Car Guy]

Great information Bret! Thanks for your reply! What you said makes perfect sense. When I was trying to research all of this I came across this kit online called "Rear Adjustable Camber Thrust Arms Combo Kit Link". I think this is goes with what you are saying about a "moveable upper control arm mount that you could actuate maybe with a ballscrew or hydraulic mechanism."

They have several different kits and I think this goes with what you're talking about?

[rixtrix1]

It would really help anyone here trying to give you a hand if they knew what kind of vehicle you are working on, along with some pics. There are literally hundreds of cars with similar but different suspensions out there and trying to get a generalized solution to a generalized problem will probably just get you into trouble. Most types of popular cars have already been sorted out as to the varying types of modifications and uses, while still leaving the car safe to drive. What you seem to be suggesting will only be good when the car is parked, and will affect all other aspects of handling when driving the car. While the suspension pics you have posted may make it look easy, remember they are designed to accentuate a point, not offer the one size fits all suspension solution for all situations.

[rixtrix1]

The adjustable examples you show do not go along with what I think Bret was talking about. They are made that way to allow adjustability to make camber adjustment possible where there was none from the factory. The bent ones allow clearance around other suspension components or the frame in instances where the car was lowered. I believe what Bret envisioned was having inner mounting points for the upper control arms made to slide up or down on the frame through the use of a screw actuator or a hydraulic mechanism of some sort which could possibly give you the stance you want when the car was at rest, while allowing the upper arms to be mechanically put back into the proper, original position with the car raised for driving. What you are asking for is much more complicated than your examples seem to point to.