Electric cars vs Muscle Cars

[Panteracer]

I guess our time might be getting short for our
Muscle cars...

I go to good guys to sell some of my stuff and
go to watch the autocross and a Tesla is tearing
things up and the announcer states a Model 3
almost won the shootout at the Arizona Good guys

I'm at Cars and Coffee and my buddy was telling me
Monday they ran at Thunderhill and a Model 3 was
stuck to the back of one of our buddies that has a
S2000 with a Viper engine, flairs, big tires etc
He could not shake him.. I know it is technically at Honda but...

So we all agreed they are fast but don't sound like
a real car.. I guess they are working on software where
you can make it sound like anything you want

I still think taking my Pantera or Firebird out is a hell of
a lot cooler than some plug in but not sure how long
I will be able to do that especially in Cali

Bob

[SSLance]

Chris Alverado ran one at Optima in Daytona last weekend also. Recently
saw a local post asking about charging stations at local road course because a guy wants to HPDE his model 3.

Gotta respect the technology but hard to not go "get off my lawn" about this at same time.

[214Chevy]

I don't own a Tesla, but I have a couple of friends who do and I'll echo the statement that they are fast a lightening. I mean pin you to the seat fast when you stomp on the pedal. The power is unbelievable.

[Vegas69]

I think it's great.

[out2kayak]

There are a few things that I can't get over with electric vehicles:

1. I own a '57 Chevy, '64 Corvette and a '67 Chevelle. Would it be reasonable to expect a battery powered vehicle to be as operable with even half of the duration of the newest (1967) car?

2. If battery powered vehicles are so good, why must the government force us, the people, to purchase them? The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) tax credit is for $2,500 to $7,500 per new EV purchased for use in the U.S. Yep, the money that is taken from you and I is funding (in part) the purchase of these vehicles. If you want one of these cars, pay for it yourself.

3. What new power plants are being created to provide the energy for these vehicles? There are no new nuclear, coal, etc, As far as I can tell, we are looking at more natural gas and solar PV (ref: https://www.technology.org/2019/03/13/new-u-s-power-plants-expected-to-be-mostly-natural-gas-combined-cycle-and-solar-pv/).

Given the US uses a daily average of about 391.40 million gallons and there is approximately 35.3 KWH per gallon, we need to generate approximately 13,816.42 GWh (if my calculations are correct).

Given the entire landmass of the US receives about 10GWh from the Sun, I don't think solar is going to get there.

So, how are we going to fuel these vehicles?

4. How are we going to get the metals necessary for the batteries? Consider:
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-lithium-battery-future/
Are we willing to do more mining and open more mines?

So, where does that leave us? All riding the bus? Hard to hang a corner in that.

Sorry, not to be the grumpy guy nor be political. I just don't see this as a real long-term viable solution without the elimination of cars for the vast majority of the population.

:cheers:

[SSLance]

https://youtu.be/KP3CC036JNI

[Gscherer78ta]

3. What new power plants are being created to provide the energy for these vehicles? There are no new nuclear, coal, etc, As far as I can tell, we are looking at more natural gas and solar PV (ref: https://www.technology.org/2019/03/13/new-u-s-power-plants-expected-to-be-mostly-natural-gas-combined-cycle-and-solar-pv/).

Given the US uses a daily average of about 391.40 million gallons and there is approximately 35.3 KWH per gallon, we need to generate approximately 13,816.42 GWh (if my calculations are correct).

Given the entire landmass of the US receives about 10GWh from the Sun, I don't think solar is going to get there.

So, how are we going to fuel these vehicles?

4. How are we going to get the metals necessary for the batteries? Consider:
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-lithium-battery-future/
Are we willing to do more mining and open more mines?

So, where does that leave us? All riding the bus? Hard to hang a corner in that.

Sorry, not to be the grumpy guy nor be political. I just don't see this as a real long-term viable solution without the elimination of cars for the vast majority of the population.

:cheers:

I agree with # 3! I remember not long ago when E85 was the "next big thing" and the big debate was how were "we the people" supposed to decide between food on the table or E85 in our fuel tanks. When we all convert to E vehicles we will have to decide not to run our home AC units and big screen TV's so we can get to work the next day.

[im4u2nvss]

Electric cars are cool, and tesla has made them fast. I have a buddy that recently purchased a model 3 and ran high 11's over, and over. But the old muscle cars are timeless, I don't think people will be restoring there model 3s in 50 years. I also love the v8 sound. I could put a 2jz in my 67 camaro, and make more power for less money then an LS or SBC/BBC but the sound would be all wrong.

[Panteracer]

I am all for technology.. I live in the heart of it in the
Silicon Valley.. Tesla about 20 minutes from my house,
Google and apple even closer... use to ride my dirt bike
in the lot where the Apple spaceship is located
Tesla cars at every light I stop at.. Waymo self driving
cars have been going near my office for years
As a Contractor I have been working for many for years

Problem is most kids don't want to drive any more
Most want to live in the crowded cities and walk
or take Uber... Most say we will not drive cars in
the future they will drive us

I still listen to my classic rock and work on my
cars and drive them or race them whenever I can
Time is running out

The older I get the faster I was...

Bob

[preston]

How long can these cars really run laps without charging though ? That seems like it would take all the fun out of it.

That's a serious question - can they really run more than one 20 minute session at speed ?

Everytime I hear about how fast these cars are I always think, yeah, for about 5 minutes. Then you have to run home with your tail between your legs to spend 3 hours charging it.

[214Chevy]

Everytime I hear about how fast these cars are I always think, yeah, for about 5 minutes. Then you have to run home with your tail between your legs to spend 3 hours charging it.

:lol::lmao::lol::lmao::lol::lmao::lol::lmao:

[69hugger]

I wonder about modding EVs. How long before some entrepreneur starts to offer hot rodded controllers/ motors/ wiring/ et.al. for various EVs? (maybe they already do?) After all, it will soon get old racing against a dozen other stock model 3s versus having yours souped up with the latest whizz bang goodies. And I suppose you'd carry some mondo generator with you to top off your batteries between rounds, right? And maybe you'd want/ need smaller batteries to reduce weight and only carry enough juice to make a round of racing, thus reducing 2-300 pounds of weight.
"I'm running Monster Power 1100 strand gold plated primary cable, an Edelbrock Victor 2100 Super E Controller, and a Tesla "S" 3 phase motor rewound by Don Hardy... AND it's all optimized by RSRT!"
Hey, this sounds like FUN! :lostmarbles:
But I digress...

[Panteracer]

Buddy of mine said they are talking about
putting a super charging station at the track
for these guys. The early Tesla's were too
powerful and tearing up the transmissions.
They had to tone them down and beef them
up at the same time. Weakest link thing

Bob

[jcal87]

The electric car and hybrid movement actually somewhat scares me. Not because of the cars themselves, but I fear one day people like us will be penalized somehow or be charged an insane amounts of money to operate our cars. I am in my early 30's and I sometimes wonder what it may be like 30 years from now.

[ULTM8Z]

Frankly, who cares... who cares about any new car.

Most of the guys I run into trying to race me in some new car probably can't even find the hood latch.

I'm actually tired of it... some poseur buys a car, thinks hes a bad ass all of a sudden and starts harassing me? Please...

[preston]

The electric car and hybrid movement actually somewhat scares me. Not because of the cars themselves, but I fear one day people like us will be penalized somehow or be charged an insane amounts of money to operate our cars. I am in my early 30's and I sometimes wonder what it may be like 30 years from now.

I totally believe this will happen. I'm 51 and I've never seen society so eager to tell everyone else what to say and do.

[slimjim]

The electric car and hybrid movement actually somewhat scares me. Not because of the cars themselves, but I fear one day people like us will be penalized somehow or be charged an insane amounts of money to operate our cars. I am in my early 30's and I sometimes wonder what it may be like 30 years from now.

I had this discussion recently with a friend.He's not into cars, drives to/ from work and hates every minute of it, he studies automation and is getting more and more involved with it and he's very enthusiastic that it'll take over completely within our lifetime. I hate the idea of it but with the safety results Tesla is already making, it will be a hard battle we will never win with insurance companies.
I think over a very long period we'll see a huge transition to electric automated cars, but they'll never get rid of petrol classics, motorbikes and everything else cool...they'll just make it far more expensive for us.

[69hugger]

The electric car and hybrid movement actually somewhat scares me. Not because of the cars themselves, but I fear one day people like us will be penalized somehow or be charged an insane amounts of money to operate our cars. I am in my early 30's and I sometimes wonder what it may be like 30 years from now.

Frankly, who cares... who cares about any new car.

Most of the guys I run into trying to race me in some new car probably can't even find the hood latch.

I'm actually tired of it... some poseur buys a car, thinks hes a bad ass all of a sudden and starts harassing me? Please...

I totally believe this will happen. I'm 51 and I've never seen society so eager to tell everyone else what to say and do.

I had this discussion recently with a friend.He's not into cars, drives to/ from work and hates every minute of it, he studies automation and is getting more and more involved with it and he's very enthusiastic that it'll take over completely within our lifetime. I hate the idea of it but with the safety results Tesla is already making, it will be a hard battle we will never win with insurance companies.
I think over a very long period we'll see a huge transition to electric automated cars, but they'll never get rid of petrol classics, motorbikes and everything else cool...they'll just make it far more expensive for us.


I agree with all of you, especially Preston, and it sickens me. I am in my mid-60's. Glad I won't see where this is all going to be in another 20-30 years.
30 years ago there were no computers, cell phones, climate change (as a religion), et al. Hell, 100 years ago the car was a new fangled thing that was outlawed from many towns or had to yield to horses.
The only constant is change.
Those "we" elect now see themselves as the great illuminati, and their vision is to create a protective society where everything is provided and there is no individualism.
But if "we" can't drive without looking at our phones for 5 minutes, (and we all see this every day) to see what Kim Kardashian is having for lunch, then I guess autonomous travel is inevitable.
My 30 something year old nephew lives in a Chicago suburb and sees driving in the same vein as taking out the garbage. Hates it, but a necessary evil. He hopes his current car is his last car. He would rather Uber than drive himself. And Uber will be one of the first to offer autonomous travel.
But this rant is going in a political direction....and we don't want that! :waveflag:

[Vegas69]

It's not much different than horse and buggy to the model T, carbs to fuel injection, and big blocks to ls motors. We can accept change and be open to new and many times better ways or set in our ways and frustrated with society.

There are many times I don't enjoy driving. Bumper to bumper traffic for miles an d miles comes to mind. Think a Los Angeles freeway in rush hour traffic. There is a time and place for autonomous driving. Then all those cars and the smog. I remember the first time I went to LA in 2000. I was filling up my car and asked a local where the fire was, he told me it was just the smog. HA Can you imagine the LA freeway full of cars built in the 60's today? The population is growing rapidly which means we need to stay adaptable and find better ways.

I do hope that some type of grandfathering stays in place. I don't see anyway around it. A majority aren't going to be able to simply buy an electric car tomorrow.

I'd own a Tesla and I'd own a muscle car. They both serve a purpose.

[ULTM8Z]

Folks, sorry if I came off the wrong way with my earlier post...

A few hours earlier, I had just that type of thing happen...

Some dipsh!t in a newer Challenger tailgating me down the local blvd for a 1/2 mile or so....and after he couldn't provoke me into doing something, he goes crazy, blasting around me, nearly causing an accident as he's swerving in and out of cars.

Unfortunately that type of thing happens all too often around here in Los Angeles.

So I guess I was just venting a little with my post...

[groovyjay]

Todays ev’s are just a quick stepping stone towards fully autonomous society. Those embracing this ”new” tech are pushing the rest of us, who still enjoy driving our own cars, from driving. The vehicles will be just another add-on to the IOT and you will not be allowed to take your dangerous old school hot rod on the roads any longer. So if you like to drive and tinker with cars, EV’s of today and tomorrow will be the ticket that will put a full stop to this hobby.

I have nothing against using electric motors as your power source. Electric motors are nothing new, they were pretty popular even when the first automobiles were introduced. Big oil just wanted to keep that tech under the radar for a century. Now with the ’smart’ grid being in place and all this AI tech available, they are now able to utilize it with the electric motors to bring the autonomous vehicles to the market and take the human action out of the equation.

So people who are embracing this ’new’ tech are the ones making the transformation happen sooner.

They started testing this tech with gas powered vehicles, first with electric assisted brakes and steering, then they added the adoptive cruise and lane changing capabilities, park assist and all that and there’s now new caddys that are pretty much hard wired with automous features, so again it’s not as much the power source that puts me off, it’s the other added ’smart’ tech. With the 5G it will be like sitting in a microwave for your daily commute and your every word and action will monitored and reported to the owners of the system. This will have an effect on your social credit score later on ;D

Social engineering in the works, that’s it.

[clill]

Got this the other day. Electric, stupid fast, only sound is the chain.

[69hugger]

Stupid fast? YOU? Who'd a thunk? :rolleyes:

[214Chevy]

Got this the other day. Electric, stupid fast, only sound is the chain.

Charlie, what size is that? I grew up on dirt bikes and then graduated to crotch rockets. I've been out of the loop so long on dirt bikes, I didn't know they even made electric ones. I need to get back into them soon...real soon, because I promised my son I'd get him a dirt bike when he turned eight and he's 7 now. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Panteracer]

Funny my wife's new Lexus sport utility has all the lane control and braking
safety items. She wishes she would have kept the old one
Does not like the car braking while going into the garage or messing
with her trying to change lanes

Too much technology for her

Bob

[clill]

https://www.altamotors.co/

The problem is Alta recently folded and assets just auctioned off. There is a cult following because they are such great bikes. I think Bombardier bought the assets. Someone will revive it or use the technology. Stielow's idiot friend Ryan that wires his cars worked for Alta and hooked me up with a test bike. I think it makes about 42 hp, no transmission, 14000 rpm, 4 different power levels to select from, no gas tank, no oil to change, no air cleaner to service. The battery pack is denser than Tesla's. Totally sealed so you can actually drive it under water for maybe 20 minutes ?

[GregWeld]

I took my daughter to the NHRA drags here — she’d never been — The GM Camaro with the electric (Blue one) puts on a demonstration run — pulls the front wheels — goes like stink.... Adrienne and I both look at each other and shrug our shoulders.... a total “ho hum” experience.

Then the big boys start rolling — shaking the ground - knocking your senses silly - filling your lungs with Nitro.... Big s * * t eating grin on her face.....

Humans like sensory overload — we like our motors to shake and rumble - we love tires smoking - but we’re Neanderthals.... The millennials like the technology... My kids have cars - but they Uber everywhere...

[ilikeike]

The electric car and hybrid movement actually somewhat scares me. Not because of the cars themselves, but I fear one day people like us will be penalized somehow or be charged an insane amounts of money to operate our cars. I am in my early 30's and I sometimes wonder what it may be like 30 years from now.

Already happening in Ca.

Gas approaching 5$ a gal. "Summer Blend" all the gas Taxes don't help.
SMOG check
Loud car law, 95 dBA at the tail pipe on a chassis dyno if ticketed.


If you have a Tesla, don't worry about it, yet..

[ilikeike]

Got this the other day. Electric, stupid fast, only sound is the chain.

I wondered, since the power delivery is suppose to be so linear on the electric motors, if that would be fun doing wheelies on ?
broke a bunch of fenders on my 2-strokes when I was a kid.
Doug Domokos might have liked it.

[Musclerodz]

I'm only interested in EV technology and transplants because my parents have a 1914 Rausch & Lang, which was originally electric.

According to Popular Science in the 50-60's, we should already be George Jetsons by now.

[cluxford]

In 1964 I hear a lot of people saying these new muscle cars are great, they are so fast, unbelievable power. But they lack the style of our hot rods, the level of customisation, the ability to literally change anything we want to anything we want. They are expensive and won't "take off".

Progress is progress. current and next generations will only buy electric.

The technology will get better and better and yeah they will be way way faster than our cars.

But we love our cars because we love them, they have meaning to us in our lives. That won't change.

Will they beat us at the track, probably...but hot rodding is hot rodding. The next trend will be to retrofit an all electric chassis to a pony car body to whip the Tesla's at the track. Instead of pro-touring it will be called electra-touring

[Panteracer]

If you think about we have been adding much more
electronics and technology to our Muscle cars
CNC machines have given us some really cool parts
Most are turbo charging or supercharging with a lot
of electronics to get them to work... I am not a big
fan of all those items but it does keep high performance
moving forward and some of the younger generation to
be interested in 700 hp cars. We used to love to go look
at dual quad or six pack car in the show rooms.. now they
are turbos or superchargers.. Look at the trucks being
offered from Saleen, Roush, SVT ford and Hemi trucks
that really go.

It has helped but as we say not long before the all Electric
things will take over.. kinda like a Muscle car Terminator


Bob