Terminator X - Plug and play LS engine control

[WILWAXU]

Anyone else excited about this? I am :)

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_x/

Terminator X and X Max Features and Benefits

Plug and play LS engine control
GM Drive-by Wire Throttle Body Control (Terminator X Max Only)
GM Transmission Control (Terminator X Max Only)
Genuine Bosch LSU 4.9 Wideband Control (Will not work with LSU 4.2 Oxygen Sensors)
On-Board Diagnostic LEDS for: ECU Power – Engine Run – Wideband Status – TPS Calibration – Crank Signal – Cam Signal. Allow you to identify any Critical engine issues at a glance
Built in 1bar MAP Sensor, vacuum hose adapters included (1/8th – ¼ and 3/16ths) - or for Boosted applications, you can disable the internal MAP sensor, and utilize an external LS MAP Sensor, the harness comes with the connector terminated, making the installation a snap.
4 Inputs – 12v, Ground, 5v, and Frequency, for things such as additional pressure sensors, or activation triggers for nitrous activation, or a trans brake (Fuel and Oil Pressure Inputs are pre-terminated)
4 Outputs – Ground, PWM - , for accessories such as; fans, boost control, nitrous control, IAC Kit, and More
Boost Control – Boost vs Time, Boost vs Gear, Boost vs RPM, Boost vs Speed, Boost Safeties
Nitrous Control – Single Channel of Wet or Dry, Progressive or Non-Progressive, Rich/Lean Safeties, and target Closed Loop AFR
Advanced Tables – 4x 1D Tables, 1x 1D per Gear Table, 4x 2D Tables, 1x 2D per Gear Table
Integrated Datalogging to the 3.5” Handheld SD Card
Free EFI Tuning Software for complete control of your Terminator X power plant

[rustomatic]

At $999.00, they don't compete, but they are getting closer. When they charge 500 extra bucks to control a dinosaur 4l80 (no 6l) and a super-modern DBW throttle body, it's a joke. They're also advertising boost control with a 1 bar MAP sensor--also a joke.

At $1500.00, they don't even compete with a GM plug and play for nearly any engine they sell. How about that wiring harness and gas pedal? You can get a GM e38 on eBay for less than a hundred bucks.

It's nice that Holley is sponsoring events, but there is a large similarity here to the way Optima tries to run its game/events. The company gets richer selling over-priced sucker gear, while the customer gets a really expensive T-shirt (but a lovely experience).

If one looks into the displays that Holley and others like Racepak sell, the basic hardware capability is less than that of a $40.00 Chinese tablet you can buy on eBay (and nearly any smartyphone).

I hate to say it, but the old Holley supported a hobby that basic incomes could support--I participated in the era of $200.00 carburetors when I was a teenager. The current trend of overly priced stuff like this has really helped to destroy the perceived (and real) accessibility of this hobby.

Instead of paying too much money for a purported self-tuning bunch of BS, people need to invest in learning to cobble, tune, and fail for a while. That's what hotrodding is supposed to be. If you can just buy your way in and flip a pretty switch, it's something else . . .

Sorry for the rant. The basic GM stuff and HPTuners win all day long.

[Schwartz Perf]

Wow negative nancy ^^^ lol.

What Holley CAN do that GM can't (to my knowledge), outlined on the Holley site:
___________________________________
On-Board Diagnostic LEDS for: ECU Power – Engine Run – Wideband Status – TPS Calibration – Crank Signal – Cam Signal. Allow you to identify any Critical engine issues at a glance

-MAP Sensor vacuum hose adapters (1/8th – ¼ and 3/16ths)

-Genuine Bosch LSU 4.9 Wideband Control

-4 Inputs – 12v, Ground, 5v, and Frequency, for things such as additional pressure sensors, or activation triggers for nitrous activation, or a trans brake (Fuel and Oil Pressure Inputs are pre-terminated)

-4 Outputs – Ground, PWM - , for accessories such as; fans, boost control, nitrous control, IAC Kit, and More

-Boost Control – Boost vs Time, Boost vs Gear, Boost vs RPM, Boost vs Speed, Boost Safeties

-Nitrous Control – Single Channel of Wet or Dry, Progressive or Non-Progressive, Rich/Lean Safeties, and target Closed Loop AFR

-Integrated Datalogging to the 3.5” Handheld SD Card

-Free EFI Tuning Software

Plus my added observations:
-Holley wire wrap is nicer than the Chevrolet Performance convoluted plastic

-Aftermarket standalone TCU's are $500+ anyway

-Free software with base maps included for many combos, and no HP tuners credits to buy

-Not sure what you were comparing on the GM Plug & Play; DBW pedals are cheap, and the GM ones don't have a TCU for $1500.

Compared to the Chevrolet Performance kits this is a pretty nice alternative for someone wanting a little more expansion.

We use the Chevrolet Performance kits quite a lot, i'm not dogging on that with you.
Just providing another perspective for people since you obviously are on the OE-only bandwagon.

-Dale

[dontlifttoshift]

Yep, for 1500 Im in to get pwm fan control and ECU/TCU in one box that I don't need additional software or hardware to tune.

Sounds awesome.

[Josh@Ridetech]

I was pretty excited to see this. It came out at the perfect time, I'm probably going to give it a shot in my Firebird in the next couple of months.

[WILWAXU]

I was pretty excited to see this. It came out at the perfect time, I'm probably going to give it a shot in my Firebird in the next couple of months.
Yup, same here. I'm finally getting the LS2 in my Nova, so the timing is perfect.

[andrewb70]

Yep, for 1500 Im in to get pwm fan control and ECU/TCU in one box that I don't need additional software or hardware to tune.

Sounds awesome.

Exactly...I am eager to see the software. Should be available in a week or so.

Andrew

[conester2013]

So does this replace the standard GM harness and ECU for an LS3 engine then? I'm going LS3 at the end of the year and the harnesses from GM performance are $1300...if this is $1K and has more, then I might go this route!

[WILWAXU]

So does this replace the standard GM harness and ECU for an LS3 engine then? I'm going LS3 at the end of the year and the harnesses from GM performance are $1300...if this is $1K and has more, then I might go this route!

Yes, this would replace the GM harness. Depending on what setup you plan to run, the price could be as high as $1500. For example, if you plan to use a drive by wire throttle body, or if you plan to use a computer controlled automatic transmission you will need the "Max" setup.

I like that you can scale this to what you need.

[andrewb70]

So does this replace the standard GM harness and ECU for an LS3 engine then? I'm going LS3 at the end of the year and the harnesses from GM performance are $1300...if this is $1K and has more, then I might go this route!

If you never plan to modify the engine, than the GM kits are plug and play. However, if you think you'll change things down the road, the Holley system will give you more flexibility.

Andrew

[raustinss]

If I may ... and for christ sakes dont jump on me for this . I believe that Mr negative Nancy as Swartz refers to him as isnt being as negative as we think . My thoughts are he just doesnt know the differences and the benefits of the new Holley over the gm .... or maybe I'm wrong and he is just negative. Lol
For me I like this . I like the idea of being able to tune a target A/f ratio . This hobby and fuel are beyond $$$ enough so being able to dial it right in to burn every gram of dinosaur blood is awesome , AND not having to buy hp tuner credits . Now I dont know enough about fan control with AC and such but , i do know having PWM controll is what i want

[rustomatic]

Negative Nancy here. Okay, so maybe my original reaction was a bit much, but I am a Gen IV LS owner/user, so the benefits are a bit harder to understand. Yes, I have also been working with HP Tuners for close to a couple of years now, so I do have amateur experience and am not just whining for the sake of Holley hate or being a cheapskate--I'm just not a shill trying to make a buck or get free parts. My LS is in a Ford, and I do not own any actual GM vehicles, so I am not here to represent the brand.

Gen IV LS = drive by wire throttle (not necessary, but why not use it?), and if you have an automatic, as you would if you bought a used unit from a junkyard, you will more than likely have a 6l80 (no good for Holley unit), not a 4l80, unless you got an older LS2 from a GTO, or a 4.8 from a 1500-level pickup truck. Do your own math here on the priced in "benefits" from Holley. I just tend to try and use what I bought with a complete engine . . .

With this in mind, were I to build a new (used) Gen IV LS for another car, which I will do in the future, the Holley unit does make me think of considering how much junkers are likely to mark up the prices of complete units, i.e., those that come with computers, wiring, front dress, and necessary (front) O2 sensors. All of these things must be priced in, even if you're buying a new GM Performance LS3 package. Usually, a complete junkyard engine/tranny setup winds up being a pretty good deal, but sometimes a new GM unit is actually a better deal. The ancillaries can eat a lot of dollars, if you're sloppy in buying. At Holley's price, especially with the extra 500 bucks they tack on for DBW and 4l80 control, they should be throwing in one of their Chinese manifolds and a set of rails. Fitech does.

So, say that you get a nice Gen IV 6.0 longblock with no intake or computer or wiring. A thousand for the Holley unit sounds reasonable. Just add a breadbox intake, injectors that suit your purpose, a van pedal, and you're mostly good. Add some front dress ($400.00 used?), and the price has climbed to a point where you should be seriously considering the complete (used) unit . . .

Oh, and HPTuners only requires additional credits for additional vehicles. If you are only tuning your own stuff, you should never have to buy additional credits (unless you own like eight different LS-powered things). There is of course a prolonged learning curve, but hey, wasn't this hotrodding, of which learning used to be a thing? My first time around, I paid a guy on eBay $300.00 bucks for a harness re-do and a Vats removal; it worked great. After this, I realized I wanted to learn to tune myself (and add a turbo and a cam).

Another point to add is that while it is cool that the Holley includes the wideband O2, there is a reason that people (like me and many others) still run narrow band O2s on a turbo (or NA) setup: The wideband sensors tend to crap out a lot more frequently (research will tell). I'm on my second one (AEM w/Bosch 4.9) in a year. From what I've learned, wideband O2s should be seen as tuning devices, rather than running devices, although I have never taken mine out since installing it (except to replace a bum AEM unit); I watch AFR while driving. I'm just an amateur, however . . .

The benefits are inarguably there, so long as your situation is perfect, and you don't purposely suck at math. :bur2:

[raustinss]

Lmao ..well thanks "NANCY" lol btw what is your first name rustomatic?

[214Chevy]

Well, I don't know anything about anything. But, I do presume this is a good product. As for learning, since "we all are hotrodding," I don't think this is no different than having the ability to learn to paint our own cars, weld and fabricate too. Obviously, all of those things are an option, but many of us can't learn or simply just wanna buy our stuff. Therefore, Holley is meeting supply and demand. That doesn't make it a bad thing. Consequently, if we learned those aforementioned skills, of course we all know it'll be cheaper to do anything ourselves, but that's a whole other issue. I mean, since it's an issue of learning, we should all learn to build our own houses, learn to open a multi-million dollar company and be our own bosses too so we don't have to work for anyone else. :sarcasm_smiley: But, seriously, I've heard nothing but good things about Holley's Dominator series, so I think this will suit the crate motor community just fine.

[andrewb70]

Here is a decent (maybe slightly rambling) review of the software:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqWYT6Ikdww&t=187s

I have a lot of experience with the Dominator, all very positive. I went over the software myself and the look and feel is the same as other Holley software. There are definitely differences between the software but they are all directly tied into the differences in hardware between the Terminator X and the other ECUs.

Most guys that want to run a common crate engine don't need super advanced features of the Dominator. Besides, to take advantage of the Dominator advanced features, you really need a deep understanding of what you want to accomplish. The Dominator is really only necessary for (drag) racing applications.

Also, let's not forget that the Terminator X is for LS engines. There are hints in the software that Coyote and Gen3 Hemi applications are on the way. Older engine platforms are not supported.

Andrew

[Josh@Ridetech]

Eh, well maybe I was a little more ready for this than I thought... :lmao:

I'm sure there will be plenty of reviews out there before mine is done but I'll let you all know how it goes!

68734

[BigBronco]

Eh, well maybe I was a little more ready for this than I thought... :lmao:

I'm sure there will be plenty of reviews out there before mine is done but I'll let you all know how it goes!

68734

Look forward to hearing it.

Watched a couple of reviews of the software and it does seem like a truly capable piece. Excited to see it.

[Josh@Ridetech]

Look forward to hearing it.

Watched a couple of reviews of the software and it does seem like a truly capable piece. Excited to see it.

You and I both! I'm ready to get the car going.

I'm really liking the videos that I'm seeing, it looks like it's going to do everything and more than I need.

[andrewb70]

I just made a video (part 1) showing some basics of the Terminator X software.

https://youtu.be/v5Otn-AyncE

Thanks for watching!

Andrew

[barrrf]

Hey all, I got mine in and the engine fired up. ProTip, if you cant find your OEM injectors in the list in the wizard (and theyre on the HOlley supported injector list) then theyre probably in the other ignition injector list.

When you go through the wizard, it ask if youre 24x or 58x reluctor, the very next screen is Choose Your Injectors. You'll notice it says 24X tooth ign OEM injector sets at the top of the screen. I clicked around for a bit until I went back and selected 58x and went to the next screen and found my injectors. What I ended up doing was selecting the correct reluctor and picking a random injector. I finished the wizard and didnt start the car. I pulled the SD card out the handheld and went to the laptop and loaded up the file created by the wizard into the Terminator X software and changed to my correct injector type there.

Positives: If you dont know what youre doing with HPTuners (I dont really and I could never get the car idle tuned properly) then this unit is for you. After answering the questions in the Wizard, the car fired right up.
- The ECU is light and neatly packaged.
- the harness is complete

Negatives: I have a Max unit so there is an extra harness and gigantic relays. If youre tucking everything under the dash, good luck finding space if you have an original AC car (theres hardly ANY room in my car for all of that stuff).
- the harness puts the IAC, Fuel pressure, TPS, IAT, and CTS all in the same spot. My fuel pressure unit is in the back near the firewall so I had to extend the harness.
- Overall, imo, the harness couldve had like another 6" to a foot of length in some spots, other not so much. I had to almost lay the trans harness on the bell housing to get enough length and I dont love doing that.

So, I have yet to drive to test the initial trans settings. Ive just been taking my time tucking wires and looming and trying to fix my DAMN STARTER grind.