Agent Orange the Bolt on brawler 69 camaro build

[rideordie28]

i am stating this thread to help out alot of people thinking about doing a pro touring build. My car has gone thru alot of iterations and i am not at the limit of what the stock sub frame and suspension can provide. looking from here i wanted to do a build with as little to no fabrication work. the following build thread will focus on parts and why i chose them for this build. i will also explain if there are other options other then what i chose and why i chose what i did. in the end this you should see it take to have an awesome come with little to no fab work.
the starting car- currently the car is a 69 camaro with very nicely done paint and body work. its color is Sunburst orange. it is a hot 350 bored 40 over. with a 6 speed LT1 t56 converted to LS. it has an adapter kit to run modern CTS V 6 piston brembos up front with 4 pistons in the rear. it has a GM 12 bolt with a eaton posi and 3.73 gears. the suspesion is a Hotchkis Lowering springs front and rear, with the hotchkis tuned bilstiens. i am running 255 tires up from and 275 tires in the back. currently the handles great i just want more out of it.

[rideordie28]

where the car is now- right now i have removed the front end of the car, the rear end is also out. only think left on the body is the front subframe and the old engine. those are soon to come out. i am currently waiting on the new motor to be built and shipped to me.

I do want to say that there was some fab work done to the car to kick of this build. i has Raleigh speed install the DSE 4 point cage and DSE mini tubs. this is not required for a at home build but it was where i wanted to take the car.

[rideordie28]

Ok so this engine is a hodgepodge of parts i found and am using. I want to Thank Mark Stielow the help and parts for the motor. I Also want to thank my engine Builder MJD performance in Novi for building this monster. if you are looking for anything in the ls or LT space to be built or tuned MJD is the place to go.

the motor is an LT Block with stock LT4 internals. i bought a new set of heads and immediately sent them over to KATECH for the CNC port job and ordered their VVT and AFM delete covers. i am running a BTR stage 2 cam with BTR valve spring kit and rocker arm trunnion bearing kit. on top of that i am running a ATI balancer with a 9% over drive pulley on the bottom and a 6% pulley on the supercharger. the pistons are coated from line to line coating and all the lower end bolts were converted to ARP studs and bolts and the block and rods were line honed and balanced. the interesting part of the motor is when done it will be running as a Wet sump system that can be converted over to dry. how i did this was using a dry sump crank with a ls key way machined into it so allow it to use the wet sump oil pump. this allowed me to run the holley lt oil pan with the trap door system. using this oil pan will allow me to run a thermostat on the engine block for the oil to be sent thru an air to oil cooler up front. i also had to covert the Corvette blower to wet sump belt system and that was done using a conversion pulley from LSA conversions/ ADM performance.

early estimates on the motor put it at about 750-800hp at the crank spinning to 7250 RPMs

[rideordie28]

ok now that i have the front clip off and the rear suspension out i can get to work removing the motor and getting the front subframe out.

[rideordie28]

So going through all the options for a rear suspension in the car there are 3 kinds to look into. 1 DSE parallel 4 link with a pan hard bar 2. torque arm from speed tech. 3. triangulated 4 link ride tech. looking in to each on of these solutions each had their ups and downs. the DSE rear is prob the best sorted but it includes alot of fab work with installing the new link pockets and the pan hard support bar. with this being a bolt on brawler this was way too much fab work for my garage. the speed tech toque are is a very nice set up. it is well sorted and is great for racing and handling. but you miss alot of anti squat characteristics with that system. there is also a bit of fab work to install the cross bar for the upper shock mounts.

this left me with the ride tech kit. this kit has been used on alot of pro touring builds, from the 24 hr camaro to other elite builds. the more i researched the system the better a triangulated the more i liked about it. its a great system for short travel systems. there can be bind issues. but ride tech has a new r link end that has a delrin bushing built in. this gives the system some compliance over a stock heim joint. this gives it a bit more flex and give in binding scenarios. the other thing that i liked about the rear was it was a bolt in application. you can bolt it in the car and be done. no welding or fab work needed. i bought the link only system because i wanted the shocks to match the front sub. i have ordered JRI single adjustable shocks for the rear to match the front once i get it.

after getting the new suspension in i found a couple of things i didnt like about it but had quick and simple fixes for them. the cage was not a direct bolt in. there was some messaging of the body to make it fit correctly. and once i had that done there still were some issues with pulling the end tabs to the fram rail flush. the body was in a way that it was putting way to much stress on the 3/8 16 self tapping bolts. the medal on the under side of the rails was just to thin for that much torque. so my solution was quick and cheap. 60 bucks for a xl astro tool riv nut tool and 20 for some nice stainless 3/8 16 riv nuts. after drilling the holes for the standard bolt as the directions said, i then opened the holes up to a 1/2 in hole and installed the riv nuts. i only did this on the downward facing bolts. this gave the frame extra metal to grab on to and a better torque capability. then running up the bolts into the new rive nuts i was able to get the cage to fully seat to the frame and once it was i used the standard ride tech method for the horizontal bolts. now that the cage is fully seated the cross bolts help hold it up is there is any pull on system. pictures below.

[WILWAXU]

LT parts look awesome! Good luck with the (re)build :)

[rideordie28]

here are some more pictures on the final attachment

[jwillia2]

Looks cool man. Since you have those mini Tubs in there stuff some meat under the back!

[Rick2964]

Great idea on the riv nuts. I went through the same emotions getting the cage to fit securely and square against the frame rails. I ended up welding mine. Looks great what you did!

[64G-lark]

Welcome. Nice starting point. Looking forward to following your build.

[rideordie28]

all parts of my car are for sale if anyone is interested. that includes the 12 bolt and brembos and the conversion kit.

[rideordie28]

more pics

[rideordie28]

lt4 on the move

[rideordie28]

here comes the studs

[rideordie28]

Anyone have a solution to getting pic upload faults saying security token missing? I have to post then edit to post pictures. But here the new subframe coming in and my custom tuned jri shocks came in for the subframe. Alot of pictures ans work coming soon

[rideordie28]

Going swap the front and rear spoilers for carbon. Should I go gloss or matte carbon?

[WSSix]

Gloss. You can spray matte on it if you don't like it later on. I don't think you can go the other way.

Car's coming along nicely. Those direct injection pistons are interesting looking. First time I've seen them.

[rideordie28]

Subframe is coming along nicely

[rideordie28]

So in taking out the old heating system i found surface rust behind the insulation around the heater. The old body sealer from way back in the day is also dry and crumbling. Since i am rewiring the car i am going to address all the old sound deadening and redo all the sealer. All of the rust is just surfave rust so that will be all scrubbed off and painted to seal the metal.

[rideordie28]

Here is the starting point of the wiring behind my dash. This is what 50 years of changes and add on produces. It is time for all new harness and wiring.

[rideordie28]

there isnt a wire left in the car and dry ice to remove old sound mat

[rideordie28]

Upon further stripping of the old sound mat I have found some small rust holes in the passenger foot well. Since I have to patch an older poor mans patch in the trans tunnel I’ll be cutting the bad out and replacing that as well

[WILWAXU]

First I've seen of the dry ice "trick". Something to store in the memory bank :) Thanks!

[GregWeld]

I probably don’t have to tell you this but there are footwell pan pieces available and they’re cheap — most all of these cars collected moisture in these areas.... and need them. And You don’t need to use the whole piece — I buy them and cut the part I need and stitch it in... Bam! Done.

[rideordie28]

First I've seen of the dry ice "trick". Something to store in the memory bank :) Thanks!

It works well. Let sit for like 10 min. Use a hammer to break it up and scrap with a stiff putty knife

[rideordie28]

in removing most of the old sound mat i found that the old owner used fiberglass and bondo to fill the floors. they where rotted out. for a guy who replaced every exterior panel to no replace the floors in interesting. but all 4 floor pans and the trans tunnel have been replaced and i can now start building this car.

[GregWeld]

Don’t forget to seam seal all of that!

[rideordie28]

ya i didnt forget. i like paint down on exposed metal before i seal it. thats tomorrow task. lots of time sealing

[rideordie28]

Finally had some time to work on the car. now that all the panels are replaced sealer on the car and dyna mat installed on the front i am now working on the new harness, steering shaft, pedals, brake system and vintage air kit. and my motor finally is shipping!!!!!

[ur-n-8]

ya i didnt forget. i like paint down on exposed metal before i seal it. thats tomorrow task. lots of time sealing

FYI. The Fusor company makes a (DTM) direct to metal seam sealer. It gives you the option to seam seal on bare metal or over primer like you are. Sometimes it's a nice option. It comes in beige or black # 800DTM or 803DTM respectively.

[jdeliveryguy]

looking good

[rideordie28]

It been awhile since i posted about the car. been very busy with life. i lost my job at GM due to involuntary separations. i guess thats what i get for leaving engineering for sales during a not so great time for the company.

since then i have done alot with the car.
- engine is mocked up in positions,
-create harness is in
- Rad assembly built using a C7 C&R racing radiator and C7 fan. the intercooler is a afco unit from a ZL1 with twin 2500 CFM pusher fans that are wired to the ac unit and a PWM controller
- speed tech one inner fender on. they are not easy but when one wants 315s up front one has to work.
-vintage air kit installed

[rideordie28]

so i have been out of contact for a bit. had hurricane damage to my garage and car and was told by my insurance company that car parts are not covered. which is ironic for a company called AUTO OWNERS insurance. either way recovery is over. sema build for magnuson is done and i can get back to it.

items on order
t56 mangum f close ratio trans
mcleod rtx dual disc clutch
drive junky accessory drive

waiting for parts to come in

[rideordie28]

Finally back working on the car. damage from the hurricane is fixed and i had to spend a full day pulling all my parts back out, partial boxes of parts and bolts out and figuring out where i was 3 months ago. SO MUCH FUN...... but over the weekend got the engine, Mcloed RTX clutch and new T56 magnum F trans all mated together and in the car. got the front brakes on and am working on the rears. next up is wiring and plumbing. i should be updating more often now....

[CamaroAJ]

Are the Z/28 brembo calipers the same bolt pattern as the C6 ZR1 calipers? I think I'd much rather have those than the C6 ZR1 calipers if they do.

[rideordie28]

Are the Z/28 brembo calipers the same bolt pattern as the C6 ZR1 calipers? I think I'd much rather have those than the C6 ZR1 calipers if they do.

these are zr1 corvette calipers. they are all the same in terms of rotor and pad size. the difference between them all is the stand off distance for the caliper bracket bolts. so the c7z calipers are basically the same as the z/28 and the c6 zr1.

mine are a c6 zr1 setup repainted bc no one will go to the c7 and 5th gen camaro/6th gen camaro setup yet.

[rideordie28]

more pictures

[CamaroAJ]

these are zr1 corvette calipers. they are all the same in terms of rotor and pad size. the difference between them all is the stand off distance for the caliper bracket bolts. so the c7z calipers are basically the same as the z/28 and the c6 zr1.

mine are a c6 zr1 setup repainted bc no one will go to the c7 and 5th gen camaro/6th gen camaro setup yet.

Thats what threw me off because I know the ATS spindles are C5/C6 brake setup. Where did you find the correct Brembo and Z/28 logos to put back on the calipers? Mine have some chips so I was going to have to repaint them anyways.

[rideordie28]

Thats what threw me off because I know the ATS spindles are C5/C6 brake setup. Where did you find the correct Brembo and Z/28 logos to put back on the calipers? Mine have some chips so I was going to have to repaint them anyways.

I used Porsche silver powder coat and a high temp vynal sticker from Ebay. Might clear over it might not. Have not decided

[WSSix]

Glad you're back on it. Best of luck making progress!

[Spiffav8]

Heck yeah!! :Tomcat:

[rideordie28]

Does anyone have recommendations on a good on header heat shield. I have the long tubes on both side very close to the firewall and near where the gm factory lt4 create harness has to run. This is ghb going to need to be addressed. The area I have will basically make the heat shield ride on the header and the harness most likely will touch the shield.

[rideordie28]

Hey guys its with a heavy heart I plan to let the car go. Its so close to being finished but at this time I can not. Here are some pictures of it in its final state. Its ready to go to a home that can finish and enjoy it. If interested please hit me up at 517seven75four907 for all it includes and price.

[cabudge09]

I know this is an old thread but did you end up selling the car? Can I ask why you decided to sell?

[rideordie28]

Hey sorry for going dark for so long. ended up keeping the car and moving back to michigan. work will continue and ill keep the thread updated.

[srode1]

Glad to hear you kept going - I'm following to see how you handle some things on your build since mine is similar. If you haven't already realized, the DS knock sensor will need to get relocated with the Speedtech recommended headers. The PS can stay but it's tight.

[syborg tt]

Hey sorry for going dark for so long. ended up keeping the car and moving back to michigan. work will continue and ill keep the thread updated.

I am glad to see your back working on the car and by looking at your signature your back at GM.