Detached Garage / In Law project

[Flash68]

Just submitted this to Planning Dept on Friday. Goal is to get through the red tape from Planning & Building Dept in 2018 and save enough money to break ground in spring/summer 2019.

For us, the In Law is really the priority and urgent goal, but since it "goes with" the garage underneath I guess I will benefit and make the best of it. :)

Here's the basics of the lower level / garage:

36x30 footprint
12 foot ceiling height
1 2-post lift
2 12x10 garage doors

I welcome any feedback on what we have so far. I don't have much for specialty tools - or skills - just basic hand tools. The plan is to move the Fox and Nova in there and then add the Camaro whenever that gets done and comes home. That frees up the 2 car attached garage for my wife's SUV and a free bay for kids stuff and whatnot.

It's been kind of fun in the design process working with the architect and my civil engineer buddy who did the grading/site plan - we gotta excavate and remove a ton of dirt.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-c3CzLN2/0/02cc9321/X2/i-c3CzLN2-X2.jpg (https://davidgordon.smugmug.com/Detached-Garage/n-gVDRHf/i-c3CzLN2/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MQWXCBc/0/90045c18/X2/i-MQWXCBc-X2.jpg (https://davidgordon.smugmug.com/Detached-Garage/n-gVDRHf/i-MQWXCBc/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4VXWJbs/0/8ad81cd5/X2/i-4VXWJbs-X2.jpg (https://davidgordon.smugmug.com/Detached-Garage/n-gVDRHf/i-4VXWJbs/A)

[Vegas69]

Sweet! A few considerations:

1. Guest houses tend to be utilized for those up in their years. I'd consider no stairs to the entry.

2. I'd pour a thicker slab in the hoist area.

3. A side mount garage door opener and raised rails.

4. Get EVERYTHING you want on the plans to avoid change orders.

[Flash68]

Sweet! A few considerations:

1. Guest houses tend to be utilized for those up in their years. I'd consider no stairs to the entry.

2. I'd pour a thicker slab in the hoist area.

3. A side mount garage door opener and raised rails.

4. Get EVERYTHING you want on the plans to avoid change orders.

Thanks.

1. I get the ground floor thing - and would love to have made that happen - but it just isn't possible on our lot. And we ain't moving for awhile (thanks to Prop 13 in CA).

2. Hoist? For the lift posts you mean? Bend Pak specs 4-6" at 3000 psi so I think we're at 6" for the slab. You're saying go more than 6?

3. Haven't looked at openers yet - what's the rub there?

4. Yeah that's my goal. And if you can believe it - I'll be acting as the GC on this. :headspin:

[shelteredV]

You'll be fine with the slab, just drill good, clean holes.

Take a look at Liftmaster 8500, they are awesome

[Vegas69]

Thanks.

1. I get the ground floor thing - and would love to have made that happen - but it just isn't possible on our lot. And we ain't moving for awhile (thanks to Prop 13 in CA).

2. Hoist? For the lift posts you mean? Bend Pak specs 4-6" at 3000 psi so I think we're at 6" for the slab. You're saying go more than 6?

3. Haven't looked at openers yet - what's the rub there?

4. Yeah that's my goal. And if you can believe it - I'll be acting as the GC on this. :headspin:

You could go handicap width doors/bath areas incase someone wants to install a lift up the steps.

I did 6" where I plan to put a lift with extra rebar to save a few bucks vs. the whole garage slab. Also consider a flat slab with some pitch the last 4-5 feet.

You want to opener out of the way when you lift a car.

Here, I'd be hard pressed to get anybody to show up as an owner builder. My builder has horsepower with the subs and I believe gets better pricing than I would as a one time deal. Consider your time and actual savings. I'd look at it both ways. It's going to be a hell of a lot of work even with a GC. It's a small project, so the fee shouldn't be terrible. There is no way I'd owner/build unless I was retired and the economy was poor.

[Goosesdad]

When I poured my slab, I just dug a 3'x3' area 8" deep where my posts were going, very little extra concrete and provides some mass in that area for the concrete to cure a bit more stable, should help with controlling sag. Keep on the finish guys when they are pouring to make sure they do a good job tamping that area to keep it stiff and so they don't work in any low spots. The effort here will be worth it when you are install your lift and are trying to level it. Looks like a fun project !!

[Flash68]

You'll be fine with the slab, just drill good, clean holes.

Take a look at Liftmaster 8500, they are awesome

You know, I looked at the notes I had (been working on this project in theory for 4 years) and someone else must have liked and recommended the Liftmaster 8500 as well because I have their spec sheet saved in my file. Thanks :thumbsup:

You could go handicap width doors/bath areas incase someone wants to install a lift up the steps.

I did 6" where I plan to put a lift with extra rebar to save a few bucks vs. the whole garage slab. Also consider a flat slab with some pitch the last 4-5 feet.

You want to opener out of the way when you lift a car.

Here, I'd be hard pressed to get anybody to show up as an owner builder. My builder has horsepower with the subs and I believe gets better pricing than I would as a one time deal. Consider your time and actual savings. I'd look at it both ways. It's going to be a hell of a lot of work even with a GC. It's a small project, so the fee shouldn't be terrible. There is no way I'd owner/build unless I was retired and the economy was poor.

My engineer buddy says 6" is pretty standard around here for slabs, lift or not.

And I hear you... and I got several GC quotes... they were off the charts. They just square footed the price and they were stupid high. Me hiring subs is the way to go in this market. Plus I work from home mostly these days and it's pretty much part time. Plus I want to take on the challenge and learn. I am sure there will be problems, LOL, but nothing catastrophic I am thinking. I have a couple good construction/engineer buddies within 10 minutes of me who will be helping me out as well.

I do have some good sub relationships already. But most importantly I have found a sub I like and who gave me a really fair number for the excavation/foundation/framing portion to get it built and closed up.


When I poured my slab, I just dug a 3'x3' area 8" deep where my posts were going, very little extra concrete and provides some mass in that area for the concrete to cure a bit more stable, should help with controlling sag. Keep on the finish guys when they are pouring to make sure they do a good job tamping that area to keep it stiff and so they don't work in any low spots. The effort here will be worth it when you are install your lift and are trying to level it. Looks like a fun project !!

Thanks for the tips. I'll have to explore that idea of the 8" depth at the post locations. Might be good peace of mind for minimal added cost.

[Vegas69]

She what you’re telling me is that you’ve under estimated the cost to build. Ha

[Flash68]

My estimate has been revised upward on more than occasion thus far, yes.... to be continued. :)

[glassman]

Thanks.

1. I get the ground floor thing - and would love to have made that happen - but it just isn't possible on our lot. And we ain't moving for awhile (thanks to Prop 13 in CA).

2. Hoist? For the lift posts you mean? Bend Pak specs 4-6" at 3000 psi so I think we're at 6" for the slab. You're saying go more than 6?

3. Haven't looked at openers yet - what's the rub there?

4. Yeah that's my goal. And if you can believe it - I'll be acting as the GC on this. :headspin:

Lemme know if u need some subs, not the sandwich.

[Matt@BOS]

I've been wondering when you were going to get rolling on this project!

Are those the current plans? I don't see a built in bar with taps.

[rustomatic]

This looks very nice, Dave. The important point to address here is what you are going to do with a lift. Are you sure you shouldn't just start with a bottle jack and a crescent wrench first? Hydraulic lifts and other complex tools can be quite dangerous. :buttkick:

[Spiffav8]

While I don't have a shop, I do work in Jeffs regularly. He put a lot of thought into layout and use of space which is the key IMO. Not to give Todd any credit, but a side mount garage door opener and raised rails is a very smart idea. Locating the compressor outside is another. Once you get tools, equipment, parts and projects in there it's going to get small really quick. So make sure you can walk around two cars in there without issue.

Here's a few pics of Jeffs shop. Maybe a good way to get some ideas on what will work best for you.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xqMVqHM/0/b8c10d9d/L/i-xqMVqHM-L.jpg

The big door is 16'x10' tall FYI
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TpjWmfB/0/cd427fa5/L/i-TpjWmfB-L.jpg

I'll get better pics next time I am over at Jeffs. I really like the fit and function of the way he set things up.

:mock:

[Stuart Adams]

Is the slab a post tension slab?

[Flash68]

Lemme know if u need some subs, not the sandwich.

I'll PM you Mike. About the sandos. Thanks

I've been wondering when you were going to get rolling on this project!

Are those the current plans? I don't see a built in bar with taps.

Yes these drawings were submitted last week to Planning.

The keezer has casters... it may move from the existing garage to this one from time to time.

This looks very nice, Dave. The important point to address here is what you are going to do with a lift. Are you sure you shouldn't just start with a bottle jack and a crescent wrench first? Hydraulic lifts and other complex tools can be quite dangerous. :buttkick:

Looks nice? Yeah I'll find a way to muck it all up.

The lift will probably get a lot of use picking up my kids or something to entertain them. :RunninDog:

Crescent wrench - check!

[Flash68]

While I don't have a shop, I do work in Jeffs regularly. He put a lot of thought into layout and use of space which is the key IMO. Not to give Todd any credit, but a side mount garage door opener and raised rails is a very smart idea. Locating the compressor outside is another. Once you get tools, equipment, parts and projects in there it's going to get small really quick. So make sure you can walk around two cars in there without issue.

Here's a few pics of Jeffs shop. Maybe a good way to get some ideas on what will work best for you.

The big door is 16'x10' tall FYI

I'll get better pics next time I am over at Jeffs. I really like the fit and function of the way he set things up.

:mock:

Thanks Curtis. That is a nice clean shop. Do you know the dimensions?

I have done the whole graph paper thing with my car dimensions, etc and there should be ample room around 3 cars, even more 1 on the lift and 2 on the ground.


Is the slab a post tension slab?

Not sure yet. Will discuss that when we get the structural engineer involved. We did not need the structural report for Design Review (Planning Dept) but will for the permit (Building Dept).

[glassman]

Is the slab a post tension slab?

If it is, (and most around here are not, cept trac housing), You almost CAN NOT drill into it, you knick one of those cables (installing a lift or anything else bolted down) and you can die, very easily.

I recommend bolting almost everything here in Cali, u dunno when the fat lady's crack is gonna fart. When it does, racks are falling over.

[DBasher]

Save your tool budget and do a couple sliders and a deck over the parking area. You’ll end up using it more, cussing less and the risk of injury will be drastically reduced.

Just sayin 🇺🇸🙃

[ADY]

With rents being so high in the Bay Area, for resale or down the road you might think of squeezing another bedroom where the kitchen area is currently located since the space is so big. Then move the kitchen to the main rec room wall adjacent to the new bedroom, that way you won't run into biggier remodel down the road with moving the bay window and plumbing if you decide to do it.

I acted as the GC for my foundation replacement and buildout of our basement, total pain in the ass, but worth the $50k in savings. Only advice is have a solid contract with your subs and ensure it details the scope, materials, etc. Also, you can save a bit more by paying for material directly (concrete, rebar, lumber, etc), but you'll go crazy running to the lumber yard or paying for last minute deliveries.

For the garage, plumb air lines from you compressor to the ceiling/wall near your lift so you minimize tripping hazard. Also, don't skimp on the lighting of course.

[Flash68]

If it is, (and most around here are not, cept trac housing), You almost CAN NOT drill into it, you knick one of those cables (installing a lift or anything else bolted down) and you can die, very easily.

I recommend bolting almost everything here in Cali, u dunno when the fat lady's crack is gonna fart. When it does, racks are falling over.

I think you're right Mike. Talked to my 2 buddies helping me on this last night .. they assume it will be conventional rebar but will defer to the engineer on that.

And the 2 post lift will most certainly be bolted down in these parts.

Save your tool budget and do a couple sliders and a deck over the parking area. You’ll end up using it more, cussing less and the risk of injury will be drastically reduced.

Just sayin ������

Guess you missed the part where the in-law above is the priority. Added parking and a lift underneath just come with the package.

If we're gonna spend the money to excavate it only makes sense to do 2 floors since my zoning allows 27 foot height and 6000 total square feet.

This is also part of a long term (15-20 year) plan to position this property for ultimate resale when our gets get done with high school. Our lot is large for here (3/4 acre) and the house has a large but compartmentalized choppy floor plan IMO. With this addition and a later MBR addition in maybe 5-10 years I think this will be much more desirable to a modern buyer in our area.

With rents being so high in the Bay Area, for resale or down the road you might think of squeezing another bedroom where the kitchen area is currently located since the space is so big. Then move the kitchen to the main rec room wall adjacent to the new bedroom, that way you won't run into biggier remodel down the road with moving the bay window and plumbing if you decide to do it.

I acted as the GC for my foundation replacement and buildout of our basement, total pain in the ass, but worth the $50k in savings. Only advice is have a solid contract with your subs and ensure it details the scope, materials, etc. Also, you can save a bit more by paying for material directly (concrete, rebar, lumber, etc), but you'll go crazy running to the lumber yard or paying for last minute deliveries.

For the garage, plumb air lines from you compressor to the ceiling/wall near your lift so you minimize tripping hazard. Also, don't skimp on the lighting of course.

We will never rent out this space. I like my tenants AWAY from my family. :) Friends and family only. It isn't being permitted for occupancy either (rec room only). I wanted a huge open loft style room like my old lofts when I lived in the city. And the large windows and vaulted ceiling will match the existing house. When my parents and in-laws aren't staying there (short term only) this will be used as a poker room, for parties, etc. and the kids can sleep in peace in the main house.

I am with you on the GC part. I figure it will be a hassle but look forward to it. I will offer to do whatever I can (materials, etc) to save money and stay involved. Did that with our kitchen remodel and saved a ton.

One thing I already have is 14 or 15 hanging 4 foot LED lights. Dad got them for me on sale at Costco a couple years ago.

I don't have a big compressor and not sure when I will get one. But I do have a provision for an enclosure along the wall or next to the bathroom should I want to add one at some point.
But you have me thinking maybe I will make that over in the opposite corner closer to the list. Will have to think on that.

Thanks for the tips!

[Flash68]

Basher and I were talking and he made me realize I hadn't posted the drawing showing the "whole" site plan with the new garage in relation to the driveway and the existing house, for better context and reference.

The only good place to put this was in FRONT of my house off the side of the long driveway.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4VXWJbs/0/8ad81cd5/X2/i-4VXWJbs-X2.jpg (https://davidgordon.smugmug.com/Detached-Garage/n-gVDRHf/i-4VXWJbs/A)

[1965_SS]

Looks nice!
Anyway to go with roll-up doors, unless those are nice garage doors with glass. If so how about making them insulated. I've got the insulated garage doors on my house and it makes a huge difference. Pm sent.

[Flash68]

Looks nice!
Anyway to go with roll-up doors, unless those are nice garage doors with glass. If so how about making them insulated. I've got the insulated garage doors on my house and it makes a huge difference. Pm sent.

Thank you. These will be decently nice steel I would say, and yes they will be insulated.

[jarhead]

Any progress?