Feedback on subframes for 69 Camaro

[blakeaz33]

Looking for feedback on the best aftermarket subframes available out there for my project. I had decided on a WD C4 clip but unfortunately got my order in too late. Anyone have suggestions for comparable alternatives, I'm familiar with a few after research but looking for feedback from the forum. Thanks.

[XcYZ]

That's going to be a tough one. I guess I'd say to define your budget, how much you can spend, then research which option gives you the best return on your investment. Have you purchased wheels or brakes yet?

[blakeaz33]

I have not purchased the brakes and tires yet but I'm at that point because I need the wheels to complete the measurements for my rearend. I planned on 18x12 with 335's and would like 18x10 up front. I like the BAER 6S and am planning on going with them. I've got my mini tubs complete, have the other DSE parts, cage installed, the sub connectors and T56 weld in crossmember but am waiting on the front clip prior to completing that part of the install. I went with mini tub kit with the 3" lower springs, if I could do it over I would go with the quadralink. As far as my budget for the clip, brakes, tires I would like to get it done for 10-12 but will be more like 15 based on what I want. I started with a fairly clean 6cyl 69 Camaro and had it media blasted and replaced firewall, floorplan, and a few of the other standard rust areas. I'm doing all the work myself and have been having a great time with it, by the way, the site has been a great help with this project. The top 2 choices based on my research at this point are the 21st Century C5 or the DSE. I appreciate any feedback and/or opinions on these 2 choices or others.

[mark smith]

if you have time to wait you may be able to buy something used.some of the big dogs are ready to move up to a c5 or new detroit engineering sub.I bought my sub which is a c4 wayne due with all the control arms and brakes sway bar and all.maybe you can concentrate on getting rear all set up with tire and wheel package in the mean time?all my stuff was new. good luck.ps if i had to buy new probably would lean towards 21st century.

[Steve1968LS2]

Both the 21st Century (what I'm running) and the DSE are good replacement subframes. I guess it comes down to which package you like the best (C5 components or aftermarket stuff). Both are around the same price.

So far, I am pretty happy with my 21st Century deal. Then again I'm sure I would have been happy with the DSE stuff.

Feel free to ask me anything you want on the 21st Century unit.

[novanutcase]

Morrisons got a c-5 clip........

[Steve1968LS2]

Morrisons got a c-5 clip........

I thought it was a whole frame system? hmmm

[Mike Hall]

Morrison does not have a bolt on front clip that i can find.

Mike

[blakeaz33]

Appreciate all of the feedback. I've been leaning towards the 21st Century C5 and this helps to make the decision.

Steve, it sounds like you're happy with your frame, did you have to do any mods to the firewall or trans tunnel, 21st has told me for SB or LSx it is not required but needed for a BB. I'm using a T56 so I'll need to raise the tran tunnel so additional mods for my BB plans may not require much more. Are you using solid body mounts and what size and offset wheels are you running up front? DSE has been great to work with so far but I think I would prefer the c5 components. Thanks again, Blake.

[Steve1968LS2]

Appreciate all of the feedback. I've been leaning towards the 21st Century C5 and this helps to make the decision.

Steve, it sounds like you're happy with your frame, did you have to do any mods to the firewall or trans tunnel, 21st has told me for SB or LSx it is not required but needed for a BB. I'm using a T56 so I'll need to raise the tran tunnel so additional mods for my BB plans may not require much more. Are you using solid body mounts and what size and offset wheels are you running up front? DSE has been great to work with so far but I think I would prefer the c5 components. Thanks again, Blake.

To run the T56 I raised the tunnel just under 2-inches 21st Century supplied me with the parts to raise the tunnel. If I would have ran a different trans I wouldn't of had to raise it. .

I am running stock heigth DSE subframe mounts, I do believe 21st offers mounts as well. I will let you know what offsets I end up running but I will be running a 275/18 tire. I like the C5 stuff. It's lightweight and should be availble as replacement parts forever. I couldn't have chosen the DSE stuff since it didn't exist a year ago, but it's a nice system.

A story on my subframe install will be in the December issue of PHR. If you need specific pics (of the trans tunnel mods) just let me know. I have several hundred pics of the install.

[novanutcase]

Morrison does not have a bolt on front clip that i can find.

Mike

Weld In........ but you have to ask for it. They don't sell it as a kit so much as they will make it for the car you have!

[BThibodeaux]

OK, this may not be the thread to ask this question, but I have a querie. I spent this evening placing the stock inner fender wells over my WD subframe set up for C4 trying to determine how far back I need to move the opening. Wayne gave a general measurment of 3", but I came up with only about 2.25". Can I please get some feedback from those who have done it? How far did you move your openings, and did you do any additional trimming from the front or anywhere else to get it to look like you wanted it?
Jody? Anyone?

Thanks guys,
BT :willy:

[camcojb]

OK, this may not be the thread to ask this question, but I have a querie. I spent this evening placing the stock inner fender wells over my WD subframe set up for C4 trying to determine how far back I need to move the opening. Wayne gave a general measurment of 3", but I came up with only about 2.25". Can I please get some feedback from those who have done it? How far did you move your openings, and did you do any additional trimming from the front or anywhere else to get it to look like you wanted it?
Jody? Anyone?

Thanks guys,
BT :willy:

I believe mine cleared without any trimming, but was not centered with the a-arms. I had just coated the inner fenders so I left it. I believe DSE did the surgery later for Stuart.

Distance would be 2-3" as I remember, but only for looks.

[BThibodeaux]

Yes, only for looks. Sorry, I am kind of anal that way. Thank you so much for the super quick reply!

BT

[Bowtieracing]

To run the T56 I raised the tunnel just under 2-inches 21st Century supplied me with the parts to raise the tunnel. If I would have ran a different trans I wouldn't of had to raise it. .

story on my subframe install will be in the December issue of PHR. If you need specific pics (of the trans tunnel mods) just let me know. I have several hundred pics of the install.

Hello Steve!!

Could you make a small "how to fit T56" in Lateral-g tech section? I think this would be a good technical help for many of us!!!

[Teetoe_Jones]

Hello Steve!!

Could you make a small "how to fit T56" in Lateral-g tech section? I think this would be a good technical help for many of us!!!

Here you go...

http://www.lateral-g.net/tech_articles/ats_t56_install/

Tyler

[Bowtieracing]

Here you go...

http://www.lateral-g.net/tech_articles/ats_t56_install/

Tyler

:unibrow: eeh sorry! Thats a good one!! I meant the floor pan modification.

[Mean 69]

Steve's t56 install is not a typical one due to the frame he is using, the floorpan needed to be modified anyway due to the motor placement, at least I am 99% certain that is the case.

Mark

[Silver69Camaro]

Morrison does not have a bolt on front clip that i can find.

Mike

Ahem...well...wait a couple months...

Oops, did I say that?

[TBART70]

now you come out with it, It would have gone nicely with my tri-4bar set up.
oh well, too late now. :censored:

[TBART70]

any word on the new morrison front sub

sorry just did a search

[yell01]

I went with the Chassisworks subframe. Here's an article about the install on my car.:thumbsup: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/chassis/suspension_steering/0701ch_first_gen_chevy_camaro_suspension_upgrade/index.html

[Perry Mitchell]

I also have the Chassisworks subframe on my '67 and am very pleased with it. What wheel/tire combination are you using? I want to use 18' wheels up front with 295's but am having a hard time determining the back spacing because the front sheet metal isn't on it yet. Any help out there?

[dhutton]

Has anyone done an LSx conversion using the Chassisworks subframe? They don't offer LSx mounts so they would have to be fabricated. I'd hate to learn the hard way that it can't be done.

[Silver69Camaro]

I also have the Chassisworks subframe on my '67 and am very pleased with it. What wheel/tire combination are you using? I want to use 18' wheels up front with 295's but am having a hard time determining the back spacing because the front sheet metal isn't on it yet. Any help out there?

Just curious, but what size tire are you going to use on the rear to match the 295 up front?

[camcojb]

Has anyone done an LSx conversion using the Chassisworks subframe? They don't offer LSx mounts so they would have to be fabricated. I'd hate to learn the hard way that it can't be done.

ATS makes adaptors which use the stock mounts, so any chassis that bolts in the older style small blocks will also bolt-in the LSX engines.

Jody

[Perry Mitchell]

The rear tires are 345's on a 19" rim

[mini69]

i just recently recieved the new subframe from total cost involved aND I AM VERY SATISFIED. I HAVE IT BOLTED ON THE CAR AND IT FITS GREAT .CHECK IT OUT :thumbsup:

[dhutton]

ATS makes adaptors which use the stock mounts, so any chassis that bolts in the older style small blocks will also bolt-in the LSX engines.

Jody

I called CW and they told me that they were bringing out LSx mounts in a month. Apparently the Transdapt and S&P mounts place the engine too far forward by 1-2 inches and cause interference with the stock oil pan. They have not tried the ATS or Hooker mounts. I'm guessing the Hooker mounts would work without modifying the oil pan since it barely clears the firewall.

Don

[ProdigyCustoms]

I also have the Chassisworks subframe on my '67 and am very pleased with it. What wheel/tire combination are you using? I want to use 18' wheels up front with 295's but am having a hard time determining the back spacing because the front sheet metal isn't on it yet. Any help out there?

Perry, backspace is easy if track width is original dimensions, (which CA is), just deduct 3 1/2 from your wheel size, no matter what size wheel you run. So if you run a 8 1/2" wheel, (whay you should be looking at) it is a 5" backspace, 9" wheel, 5 1/2" back space.

Now what is a problem is thinking your going to put 295s up there, unless the car is only planed to go straight! I installed the very first CA frame sold and have used a few since and you are going to be lucky to get 255s on it.

FWIW, We run a car with 295s up front, and the frame has been custom narrowed 3" to accomodate that and it rubs a teenie on full lock to lock steering.

[Mkelcy]

i just recently recieved the new subframe from total cost involved aND I AM VERY SATISFIED. I HAVE IT BOLTED ON THE CAR AND IT FITS GREAT .CHECK IT OUT :thumbsup:
That may be a terrific subframe; but fitting the car well is the absolute minimum I would expect with an aftermarket sub.

[Perry Mitchell]

Thanks Frank. As you know, you can order most wheels with backspacing in 1/8" increments, so every 1/8" becomes critical. I assumed the CA subframe was built with the stock track width as measured from their hub. Do you know how thick their hub is? I am using Wilwood,s hub and a Wilwood hat so maybe there is a little give (or take) in these measurements. If you add thickness to the face of the hub, you should be able to add the same amount to the backspace of the wheel,correct?

[ProdigyCustoms]

It does not matter what the backspace is. moving the hub out and adding backspace to the wheel does notihing. There is only X amount of tire room (about 10" of tire room) from the fender wheel well inner edge to the outer most frame obstruction.

[yell01]

I also have the Chassisworks subframe on my '67 and am very pleased with it. What wheel/tire combination are you using? I want to use 18' wheels up front with 295's but am having a hard time determining the back spacing because the front sheet metal isn't on it yet. Any help out there?
I'm putting a 245/40/18 up front on mine.

[crazycarl]

I know this is an old thread but there is some incorrect information. The Chassisworks Camaro clip does NOT maintain stock track width if you are running the standard 11-3/4" front rotors. It's 3/4" wider per side, 1-1/2" wider overall for a total of 60" wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. This is narrower than the DSE frame and the Morrison, I don't know about the rest, there are too friggin' many. It IS the stock track width if you are using the 13" or 14" brake kit.