Bleeding new clutch MC

[rickpaw]

I'm in the middle of swapping in a TR6060 to my Firebird, and I'm using the McLeod hydraulic conversion kit, with stock GM slave and Tick remote bleeder. The fluid is Wilwood brake fluid. The clutch is the Centerforce DYAD setup.

Below is the link to the kit I'm using.

https://www.jegs.com/i/McLeod/673/1434002/10002/-1

For the life of me I couldn't get a firm clutch pedal. I removed the line from the MC, put the end into the reservoir, pumped the pedal and got all the air bubbles out, reconnect the line to the slave cylinder, bled the system until clear fluid (no bubbles came out), but the pedal is still soft. Pumped the pedal hard 10 times, and it firmed up the last 1/3 of the stroke. Cracked open the bleeder and the pedal sank to the floor. Did that multiple times, with almost 2 bottles thru the system. Now the clutch pedal sank to the floor, regardless how many times I pumped it. Checked the reservoir and filled it too, as the fluid level went down a bit.

I checked all connections, and they're dry with no visible leaks. I'm getting a borescope to peak into the bell housing to see if I'm getting leaks there.

I'm running out of ideas. Called McLeod and they gave out some suggestions, which I tried without success.

Any helps/ideas from the forum would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[carbuff]

Bleeding the clutch on my car is infuriating. I watch through the bellhousing, appear to have good movement when someone is helping to bleed it, then after we're done, it feels soft again.

I actually had my car up on stands on the driver's side to try and get the air pocket closer to the bleeder hose. I don't particularly recommend that method, it's not the most comfortable when laying under the car.

After the last attempt, I let the car sit a couple of days, and the pedal actually has a good feel to it now. I'm stumped... Haven't driven it, but the feel has maintained for a week or so now...

Good luck, wish I had better advice.

[rallystyle]

if i remember correct the tick line has a 1 way bleeder on the end. i had some problem bleeding mine at first. i ended up have the end of the bleeder line just below the reservoir took out the bleeder valve. let it gravity bleed the air out then put the bleeder valve back in and bled the system again. had a good pedal after that.

[Oleyellar]

I have the best luck with vacuum. Seal the top of the reservoir, I use a fender washer with some rubber gasket material glued to it, use a Mighty Vac to pull a vacuum on the system, let it sit for a few minutes and all the air comes to the surface in the reservoir. Top it off and be done.

[rickpaw]

Thanks for the tips guys. I ordered a -4 AN plug, hoping by plug in the MC output line, I can force any air trapped in the MC out to the reservoir.

Someone posted a youtube video where they stuck a vacuum line into the reservoir, and suck the air out from the top. I'm going to try that too.

I removed the pedal stop in order to get the full stroke. Let's hope I didn't damage the MC.

[NAPA 68]

I have the best luck with vacuum. Seal the top of the reservoir, I use a fender washer with some rubber gasket material glued to it, use a Mighty Vac to pull a vacuum on the system, let it sit for a few minutes and all the air comes to the surface in the reservoir. Top it off and be done.

I had the same thing on my 67 Nova. Applied vacuum to the reservoir, and after a little bit, it pulled the rest of the air from (what I assume) was the top of the master. If your master is tilted down somewhat, it appears to me there is some room for air at the very top.

Prior to that, I bled more than a pint through the slave, once the original bubbles were out, the pedal still sucked.

Tim

[rickpaw]

Quick update

I put vacuum on the reservoir, and had a bunch of air bubbles came up. Good news right? Nope,pedal still soft. I pumped it a few times with no improvement. Tried pulling vacuum again, no air came out. In fact I was pulling fluid into the vacuum reservoir. No change in pedal feel.

So I removed the line going to the slave cylinder and plug in with -4 an plug. With the line plugged, I should have firmer pedal, so I thought. Pump the pedal a bunch of time,still no change in pedal feel.

At this point, I’m pretty sure the MC is damaged. :bur2::bang:

[im4u2nvss]

In the past I had issues with this. Try something like this https://www.speedwaymotors.com/T56-Release-Bearing-Remote-Bleeder,41385.html Move it above master cylinder when bleeding. Really helps get all the air out.

[rickpaw]

In the past I had issues with this. Try something like this https://www.speedwaymotors.com/T56-Release-Bearing-Remote-Bleeder,41385.html Move it above master cylinder when bleeding. Really helps get all the air out.

I have a Tick remote bleeder setup installed.

[carbuff]

Tu,

Thought I replied to this again, but apparently not...

I followed the method in the video that was posted on Pro-Touring.com about using the vacuum source to suck out the air. It sounds like that didn't work for you, but wow it did for me. I was really surprised how much air I was able to pull out, and the pedal works perfectly now!

It took a couple of tries to find the best adapter to use to plug up the hose and create vacuum. Once I found the right one, I was able to put about 28" of vacuum on the line and let it sit. Bubble after bubble came up, although it sucked out some fluid also (I used the canister to catch as opposed to what they showed of just connecting the Mitivac without a canister). I also used the pedal to just barely push the piston and push out the little bubbles that can be trapped in the MC.

It's not a 'quick' process, but a heck of a lot easier than trying to push air out through the bleeder, at least with my setup. So I'm really glad you started this thread!

[randy]

glad to help and to hear it fixed your issue

[rickpaw]

Tu,

Thought I replied to this again, but apparently not...

I followed the method in the video that was posted on Pro-Touring.com about using the vacuum source to suck out the air. It sounds like that didn't work for you, but wow it did for me. I was really surprised how much air I was able to pull out, and the pedal works perfectly now!

It took a couple of tries to find the best adapter to use to plug up the hose and create vacuum. Once I found the right one, I was able to put about 28" of vacuum on the line and let it sit. Bubble after bubble came up, although it sucked out some fluid also (I used the canister to catch as opposed to what they showed of just connecting the Mitivac without a canister). I also used the pedal to just barely push the piston and push out the little bubbles that can be trapped in the MC.

It's not a 'quick' process, but a heck of a lot easier than trying to push air out through the bleeder, at least with my setup. So I'm really glad you started this thread!

glad to help and to hear it fixed your issue

Bryan,

Glad it helped you out.

A quick update. So I tried the vacuum method - did not work (although now thinking back I did not let it sit with vacuum). Decided to pull the mc out, thinking I overstroked it, and damaged the seals. Spent 1hr getting it out, mounted it in the vice (with reservoir intact and the line plugged), and tried pushing the rod - the rod became rock hard. I couldn't move the rod. It was rock solid.

So, I mounted the mc back in the car, with the line still plugged. The pedal is rock solid. All good right? So I unplugged the line, and connected it in the slave and started pumping the pedal (found a procedure posted by Tick Perf on LS1tech). The pedal progressively got firm, except for the 1st 1 inch of pedal travel. I tried pumping just the 1st inch of pedal travel but still was not getting a complete firm pedal.

This was before I went on vacation for a week, so have not had a chance to work with it some more.

Open to additional ideas.

[carbuff]

The first inch or so of my pedal is not the same as the rest. I assume there is some travel in the pedal required where the rod is not moving much, but I haven't gotten under the dash to look.

Did you see the part of the video where they showed pushing on the rod to remove the last bit of air that's trapped in the MC around the seals? I did that with vacuum applied also, and I did see small air bubbles come out of the system. Perhaps apply pressure and try just touching the pedal to engage that first bit of movement and watch for more air to escape?

[joeko23]

Hey check out this video sounds like you have this problem. All our MC are angled so there will always be some trapped air unless you bench bleed the mc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6cVYgzCU18

[im4u2nvss]

Hey check out this video sounds like you have this problem. All our MC are angled so there will always be some trapped air unless you bench bleed the mc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6cVYgzCU18

Great video, helps to explain the fix.

[rickpaw]

Hey check out this video sounds like you have this problem. All our MC are angled so there will always be some trapped air unless you bench bleed the mc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6cVYgzCU18

Hi Joeko23,

I did bench bleed the m/c (sort of). As I mentioned in previous posts, I plugged the line from the m/c, removed the mc (as a unit with reservoir/line). The push rod was rock solid. I couldn't move it at all.

I knew when I unplugged the line and connect to the slave, there will air reintroduced into system. Guess I'll keep bleeding it.