Great driving car under $20k

[WSSix]

I'm thinking about picking up another car to drive on the weekends and whenever the urge gets to me. Requirements are under $20k, rear wheel drive or all wheel drive, manual transmission, comfortable(so not small), and great driving characteristics. Preference is for a V8 but a high powered 6 is possible. I also don't want lots of maintenance involved. I figure we have a rather diverse crowd here that's driven many different cars. What are your opinions? No Corvettes. They're great but I want something else.

I've been thinking about 10th gen 5.0 Mustangs, Infiniti G37's, BMW E34/39 540i or M5, BMW E46, and Audi S4/5/6. Emphasis is on driving enjoyment which is why I've listed BMW's since people swear by them in those regards. I'm concerned about cost of repairs of the BMWs and Audis though. Should I be considering it'll mainly be a garage queen? Figure 5-8k miles yearly at best. The E34/39 540i's and M5's have got to be at the bottom of their value curve. They really look appealing as a second car that holds potential to remain valuable or increase which would be a great bonus.

Anyway, I'm interested in your thoughts/suggestions and experiences.

Thanks

[Flash68]

Love the E39 M5!

I've had an E34 540, an E36 M3 sedan and an E46 M3 previously. Enjoyed them all for what they were and what I needed them for. Some of them nickle and dimed me more than others but they were overall very decent cars and very fun to drive.

Good luck. The hunt is fun!

[GregWeld]

I'm with Dave --- BMW's --- great driving - road or spirited....

Stay as far away as you can if you find a M5 V10 cylinder with the worst transmission in history... the SMG tranny... WHAT A POS THAT IS!! The motor wasn't much better - gutless until the RPM's were above about 4500.... so zero torque around town - not to mention expensive to repair or replace....

I'm also a big fan of the Audi S4..... great car - still good looking -- nice to drive.

[glassman]

If you can score an early M5, i think pre 02. Killer sedan, best bang for the buck. but yes, what greg said, stay way away from the V10 ones. i've heard nothing but horror stories from those here in the bay area....4 years ago you coulda got a 964 or 993 series 911 for that, but they just tripled and quadruped in price...i tried.

[dhutton]

Might be a bit of a stretch but a 2009-10 CTS-V would be a good choice. I had a 2011 and loved it.

Don

[rocketrod]

You may want to consider a C5 Z06. I bought one last summer and the car is just a blast to drive! I look forward to autocrossing and drag racing it some this year.

[V8TV]

I owned a 2004 BMW 545i 6-speed manual for 5 years, really liked the car. The 4.4 V8 was surprisingly torquey, and it handled very well. Fun car to drive. Cheap now, too.

[rustomatic]

I am a big fan of the E39 BMW--I've had two of them. I presently have a 2001 530i, and it's awesome to drive, both near and far. Part of this is due to the car's previous owner, who had the thing very expensively maintained--he actually paid Euro-specific shops (Bay Area prices) to fix/update everything, and it shows. I love the car, as it is quiet, smooth, taut in the right ways, has decent power (225-35 horsies), and looks better than what came before and after (according to me and thousands of others). These cars are available cheap (zillions in CA on Craigslist at all times), but you've got to get a good one (one that had a good life, in other words) that has been owned by non-addled grownups (and not given to their kids).

These cars handle great (I live on a very twisty river road and drive canyons daily), smell okay, and have a nice shape. They have some of the best engineering applied recently or presently to chassis dynamics and weight distribution. They have aluminum subframes front and rear, and the front's got a buttload of caster. I can drool on and on . . . I'd really like to stick an LS in one of these, but smog rules in CA . . .

There are many minor problems that creep up in these things, but most are very cheap to fix (avoiding early/late build cycle models seems to help here--the U.S. range is '98 to /'03). They made more than a million E39s internationally. If you do maintenance and fix things (like window regulators/brakes/etc.), the part costs are quite negligible (my four-wheel brake job with rotors and pads was sub-$150, via eBay). The Web knowledge on these things is ridiculously huge and very helpful.

The straight six is an engine configuration that has not gotten the credit (in recent decades) that it deserves. It is super-smooth, torquey at the right rpms, durable as rocks if properly maintained, and is quite efficient. The smaller of the E39 engines (525/528) will do 27+ mpg in any environment (the 540 has a V8 that should be avoided, from what I've heard). Treat it right, and it's like a gas-powered, German Cummins.

The model after the E39, from what I've seen, should be avoided like hepatitis.

I'll shut up now.

Edit: I forgot about the 1/2JZ. That's the Japanese Cummins (I-6).

[WSSix]

Thanks everyone. I've been leaning towards the BMW E34 and E39s. I love the looks and would prefer more of a "grown up car". That's what kind of keeps me away from the Mustang. I love the bright green. The 2010-14 generation looked great, but the interior looks cheap. I haven't even sat in one yet and that's my impression.

From what I've been reading, the 540i V8 and the M5 V8 are solid engines so long as maintenance is documented and thorough. I'm not worried about repairs as I do enjoy working on cars but I don't want it to be every weekend. That's what my friend went through with his V10 M5. He loved it but hated how it was constantly needing work. M3's are great too but I'm not sure I want something that small.

I appreciate the responses, and if you have anything you'd like to add, I'll listen.

[dkp993]

It might be slightly higher then your 20k budget (23/24k) but the C7 version of the Audi A6 3.0 is an awesome car. I've had mine for nearly 3 yrs and absolutely love it. The supercharged V6 has plenty of grunt and the handling is fun due to the quattro awd.

[shelteredV]

I've seen (and contemplated) a couple of E39's with LS engines in 'em for about 20 grand. Looks like a hoot, styling with dependability.

[dontlifttoshift]

11-14 GT Mustang. If you aren't planning a ton of mods, get a Performance Pack car, the brakes are worth it.

The only problem with them is eff oh are dee but other than that, great cars.

Sensible advice, C5Z. I know you don't want one but in case anyone else is reading. They just bounced off the bottom of the depreciation curve and I don't think they will get cheaper from here. That's a car you can drive for 3 years and take moderate care of it and it will literally cost nothing.

[WSSix]

I've seen (and contemplated) a couple of E39's with LS engines in 'em for about 20 grand. Looks like a hoot, styling with dependability.

I was thinking of doing that swap to an E34 since it's more analog, but I don't want another project.


11-14 GT Mustang. If you aren't planning a ton of mods, get a Performance Pack car, the brakes are worth it.

The only problem with them is eff oh are dee but other than that, great cars.

Sensible advice, C5Z. I know you don't want one but in case anyone else is reading. They just bounced off the bottom of the depreciation curve and I don't think they will get cheaper from here. That's a car you can drive for 3 years and take moderate care of it and it will literally cost nothing.

No doubt the C5 and C6 cars are a fantastic vehicle for the price. I'm just wanting to try something different. I appreciate the response and info on the Mustang, Donnie.

Thanks everyone!

[68LS1]

Pontiac G8


If can stretch budget, Chevrolet SS, great car. Looks like manuals bring good dollar over auto in USA, but auto is a still a bloody good drive

[Interceptor5588]

Pontiac G8 GXP

[WSSix]

Finding a GXP G8 is like finding a unicorn unfortunately. I do like the G8 a lot but they made so few of the GXP, which is the only way to get the manual, that I'm not even looking.

Thanks

[214Chevy]

Finding a GXP G8 is like finding a unicorn unfortunately

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2009-Pontiac-G8-GXP-t35497

[Vegas69]

BMW or Pontiac? Outhouse or ass warming toilet seat. :peepwall:

[Sheck44]

May be tough to find in you price range but the 2006/2007 BMW Z4M roadster or coup, Ive owned 2, and still have one now, you'd be hard pressed to find a more fun car for the $$$

Steve

[WSSix]

BMW or Pontiac? Outhouse or ass warming toilet seat. :peepwall:

It's a high end outhouse though, lol.

May be tough to find in you price range but the 2006/2007 BMW Z4M roadster or coup, Ive owned 2, and still have one now, you'd be hard pressed to find a more fun car for the $$$

Steve

I've thought about those as I like the look, but they're too small for me. I want more room.

Thanks

[DOOM]

Trey go pick yourself up a nice 2005-2006 Corvette . My wife has a 2005 the car is a blast to drive. You can find them out there with decent mileage for under 20.

[WSSix]

I appreciate the response, Mario. I've been involved with Corvettes before. They're great cars and very capable, but they aren't what I want.

Thanks

[ProTouring442]

I appreciate the response, Mario. I've been involved with Corvettes before. They're great cars and very capable, but they aren't what I want.

Thanks

I recently purchased a very nice 1995 540i/6. Wonderful car, though they might actually be a bit small for what you're looking for. There is a lot of forum support for them, and you should be able to get a nice one and make it great for less than your budget.

[WSSix]

How's the power? Does it feel like it needs a little more to feel proper and not like it's struggling to get up the hills? I actually prefer the looks of the E34 but the E39 has all the acclaim.

Thanks!

[cpd004]

I bought an 09 G8 new in November of 08. It was my daily driver mostly from that point on aside for one winter. The ride and handling of that car was spot on for my tastes although I did swap struts to the police version.

I had gotten a few gift certificates for Speed Inc that following Christmas and really had no intentions doing any mods. I had added and air box and exhaust but no other plans. On a whim for one of their dyno specials, I decided to get it tuned. I didn't expect much, but the ride home blew me away. It was so much more responsive with better shifts. Glad I did it.

Even though there was nothing wrong with the car and it still had just under 50k on it, I knew the end was near for Holden here in the US and thought it would be the right thing to do to look into the SS. I was thinking of down the road replacement. I preferred the slightly more aggressive looks of the G8 over the SS. All the stars aligned and I brought the SS home last March. I feel it is an outstanding car that feels as though it was almost made specifically for my tastes/driving style. It is definitely the G8, but several notches above in every possible way. That being said, I don't think you can go wrong with one.

Good luck!

[ProTouring442]

How's the power? Does it feel like it needs a little more to feel proper and not like it's struggling to get up the hills? I actually prefer the looks of the E34 but the E39 has all the acclaim.

Thanks!

It feels good. It's no muscle car, but it scoots pretty well. Runs 85mph all day with the cruise set, handles like a dream.

On my list of things to do are:

-BillyBoat exhaust (already purchased)
-Chip (already purchased)
-3.15 LSD (already purchased)

I'm also thinking of a set of headers. All the above should wake it up quite nicely, I would think. Or, who knows... maybe an LS swap is in the future? :superhack: I think I could pull it off and still be in the $20K-$25K range when all is said and done.

The 540i/6 comes with the sport seats and the "slightly lower and stiffer" suspension (M5 without "SLS" hydraulic load level in the rear). I purposefully avoided a traction control car as well--too much to worry about breaking, I figured.

So far, I have a total of maybe $15K in the car, including the original purchase, flying to Texas, and driving it back to Tennessee.

The car was $7K, and the rest has been stuff to upgrade and/or make it "all I want it to be." M-Tech front bumper, 3.15 LSD, Chip, front brake upgrade, rear rotors, pads, and calipers, braided brake lines, wheels, tires, exhaust, leather M-tech steering wheel, stereo upgrade, front suspension upgrades, new front door weather stripping, and a few more bits and pieces.

The only repair I've had to make was a new MAF and O2 sensors. Next winter I'll probably do the timing chains and guides. I'll do them myself, over a weekend.

If you have any more questions, feel free to hit me up, or PM me and I'll give you my phone number.

[WSSix]

I bought an 09 G8 new in November of 08. It was my daily driver mostly from that point on aside for one winter. The ride and handling of that car was spot on for my tastes although I did swap struts to the police version.

I had gotten a few gift certificates for Speed Inc that following Christmas and really had no intentions doing any mods. I had added and air box and exhaust but no other plans. On a whim for one of their dyno specials, I decided to get it tuned. I didn't expect much, but the ride home blew me away. It was so much more responsive with better shifts. Glad I did it.

Even though there was nothing wrong with the car and it still had just under 50k on it, I knew the end was near for Holden here in the US and thought it would be the right thing to do to look into the SS. I was thinking of down the road replacement. I preferred the slightly more aggressive looks of the G8 over the SS. All the stars aligned and I brought the SS home last March. I feel it is an outstanding car that feels as though it was almost made specifically for my tastes/driving style. It is definitely the G8, but several notches above in every possible way. That being said, I don't think you can go wrong with one.

Good luck!

Thanks! I really wish the G8 came in a manual without having to find the GXP. Love the SS but it's out of my price range.

Thanks!

[WSSix]

It feels good. It's no muscle car, but it scoots pretty well. Runs 85mph all day with the cruise set, handles like a dream.

On my list of things to do are:

-BillyBoat exhaust (already purchased)
-Chip (already purchased)
-3.15 LSD (already purchased)

I'm also thinking of a set of headers. All the above should wake it up quite nicely, I would think. Or, who knows... maybe an LS swap is in the future? :superhack: I think I could pull it off and still be in the $20K-$25K range when all is said and done.

The 540i/6 comes with the sport seats and the "slightly lower and stiffer" suspension (M5 without "SLS" hydraulic load level in the rear). I purposefully avoided a traction control car as well--too much to worry about breaking, I figured.

So far, I have a total of maybe $15K in the car, including the original purchase, flying to Texas, and driving it back to Tennessee.

The car was $7K, and the rest has been stuff to upgrade and/or make it "all I want it to be." M-Tech front bumper, 3.15 LSD, Chip, front brake upgrade, rear rotors, pads, and calipers, braided brake lines, wheels, tires, exhaust, leather M-tech steering wheel, stereo upgrade, front suspension upgrades, new front door weather stripping, and a few more bits and pieces.

The only repair I've had to make was a new MAF and O2 sensors. Next winter I'll probably do the timing chains and guides. I'll do them myself, over a weekend.

If you have any more questions, feel free to hit me up, or PM me and I'll give you my phone number.

Thanks! I've considered the 03 540i M-Tech since it's essentially a 300hp M5 with a slightly less luxurious interior. I'm concerned about being down 100hp though considering the weight of these cars. But, I'm not sure the extra 100hp is worth the many thousands more the M5 costs. Decisions decisions.

[glassman]

Thanks! I really wish the G8 came in a manual without having to find the GXP. Love the SS but it's out of my price range.

Thanks!

They (GM) really didn't make enough of those. Like the TBSS.

[JsTA]

If you are interested in BMWs a 335i or 228i would be an awesome choice as well. The 335i comes with the turbo (or twin turbo) i6 whereas the 228i comes with the turbo 4. Both make quite a bit of power for their size and the 228 has the benefit of the phenomenal 8 speed auto. Both respond very well to mods as well if you wanted to spice things up a bit later on down the road. A 228 might be a bit outside of your range but if you look you can find them under 20 across the country and the 335 for sure can be found for way less.

[DBasher]

What about a Porsche? Besides the occasional 911/996 near 20k are the other models worth the “experience”?

[WSSix]

Too small for me. I love their looks and there's no denying the performance, but I just don't like small cars really.

Thank you

[DBasher]

What do you end up with, Trey?

[WSSix]

Funny you should ask. This happened on Tuesday https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-bmw-540i-14

I honestly didn't expect to win. I thought the bids would go higher than what I was willing to spend. I was in shock for a bit. I really did go running to burn off some of the nervous energy. The title should be in my hands tomorrow afternoon. I then need to secure transport from SF to ATL. I wish I could fly out and drive it back but that's not feasible. I'll report back once I've actually driven the car. I'm stoked.

Forgot to mention that the coolest part is he's letting me keep the tags. I love them. They're going to look great on the wall of my garage.

Thanks

[rustomatic]

That should be a fun car to drive, Trey. My 530 is the same color--you should find a tag somewhere under the hood that says "anthrazit," or something to that effect. Being that the thing is located Bay Area-ish, I would expect to do a clutch pretty soon. Based on the seller's "suggestions," I would also expect a check engine light, at least once you've driven the car 25 miles or so. Whatever, it's an awesome car, and with that low mileage/usage over the years, it should be pretty nice and tight!

Funny you should ask. This happened on Tuesday https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-bmw-540i-14

I honestly didn't expect to win. I thought the bids would go higher than what I was willing to spend. I was in shock for a bit. I really did go running to burn off some of the nervous energy. The title should be in my hands tomorrow afternoon. I then need to secure transport from SF to ATL. I wish I could fly out and drive it back but that's not feasible. I'll report back once I've actually driven the car. I'm stoked.

Forgot to mention that the coolest part is he's letting me keep the tags. I love them. They're going to look great on the wall of my garage.

Thanks

[Flash68]

Cool car! Should be fun.

Autohaus Moraga is about 3 minutes from my house...

[DBasher]

That’ll work! I’ve actually been looking at E39 manual wagons. Keep us posted on your thoughts as you rack up the miles.

:thumbsup:

[WSSix]

Thanks guys.

I do have a question about the title transfer. The owner only signed line 1a saying he "releases interest in the vehicle". He did not sign inside the box under mileage though. He triple checked before sending the title and was told since the car was over ten years old, he did not have to sign there since it only deals with the car's mileage. Is that correct? From what I'm seeing, it appears that is correct, but I want to be certain since the wording on the title isn't very clear and I don't expect Georgia to know California's laws.

See attached pic for the box in question.

Small world that Autohaus is so close to you, Dave. I saw his bid and not knowing anything about the person thought the name sounded like a business and they'd just be flipping the car. I said to myself that he's going to have to fight me for it, even though I was basically done with bidding, and raised it $250, lol. I really expected him to come back and raise the bid. Like I said, I didn't expect the win.

Basher, a manual E39 wagon sold recently on BAT. It was in TN and looked pretty good for a wagon. I thought about it but I couldn't live with the I6. They didn't put the manual behind the V8 in an E39.

Thanks!

[jarhead]

Congrats ! Cool car

[Che70velle]

Trey, that’s gonna be a fun car, and you got a heck of a deal on it. Leaves are starting to turn up here on the mountain. Would be a great first drive, hint hint.

[WSSix]

Trust me, I know, Scott. Between work and house projects I've been swamped, but my friends and I have already talked about needing to get into the mountains for a drive. Hopefully, in a few weeks we can make a trip. The weather has gotten to be very nice.

Thank you

[WSSix]

That should be a fun car to drive, Trey. My 530 is the same color--you should find a tag somewhere under the hood that says "anthrazit," or something to that effect. Being that the thing is located Bay Area-ish, I would expect to do a clutch pretty soon. Based on the seller's "suggestions," I would also expect a check engine light, at least once you've driven the car 25 miles or so. Whatever, it's an awesome car, and with that low mileage/usage over the years, it should be pretty nice and tight!

Yes, it's an Anthracite car. It's a great color especially since they left the "better" colors for the M cars. I don't intend to drive it much honestly so any repairs it needs as it approaches 100k aren't really a concern for me. Even if it takes a week or two that's ok. As it is now, I'm estimating 6 more months before the TA is back on its wheels. That's the type of situation I wanted to avoid with another car.

Thanks