DWC's 1968 Camaro project

[DWC]

Although this project will not be close to the level of most of the very impressive builds here on Lat-G, I figured I'd share regardless. Mods- if this needs to be moved/deleted, just let me know.

Last summer I got the itch for a project that was different from what I've done in the past. I'd built/played with an FFR Cobra, '95 Mustang Cobra track day car, 2 '99 M3's, and 2 330i's. I wanted something different... The 99 M3 I currently had was in great condition and I couldn't bring myself to convert it into a track car. With the price of E36 M3's on the rise, I said what the hell...and listed it for sale. I wanted an older car with a V8 and had always loved the look of the first gen Camaros. Initially I was looking for 69's, but I found I now preferred the 68 body lines and interior and got more serious about my search.

I found a 68 for sale relatively local and pulled the trigger on it. Overall, the car was in good shape. The one thing I didn't want was a rusty mess. There were some small rust areas here and there and the driver floor pan needed to be replaced, but nothing too bad.

I've never owned a car this old or a car with a carb. I've scoured through the many excellent build threads here for knowledge/motivation. My plan with the car is a reliable nice-weather driver that can perform at an autocross. Part pro-touring, part resto-mod, part who the hell knows. I hope to gain some knowledge from those of you who know what the hell you're doing.

Updates to come as parts arrive.

Daniel

[DWC]

More photos:

[DWC]

Progress has been slow- out of town, family, house projects, blah, blah....

Finally got the factory spot welds removed. Trimmed the old and new floor pans to fit as tightly as I could.

Then started tacking the new pan in. Took a handful of tacks to get the welder settings where I needed them. Trying to take my time and not overheat/warp as I go.

Once I finish this floor pan, I'll remove the front body panels/hood/engine/trans. I'll pull the subframe to clean, seam weld, install Chicane front coilover mounts, and paint.

Interesting note- I was nosing around the engine bay...I haven't really touched that area because I was focused on the floor pan. The seller told me it had a SBC 350. Well.....according to the casting number at the driver's rear of the block, 330817, I have a '72-'80, 2 bolt main, SBC 400. I know _nothing_ about the SBC 400, so I have alot of research to do. So far, I don't think that's a bad thing. I just didn't want a BBC due to the weight.

The Edelbrock intake manifold model number tells me it is for Vortec heads. From the intake manifold bolt pattern/orientation, I believe Vortec's are what I have.

[DWC]

I got the driver's floor pan and seat brace/bracket welded in.

I spun the car around in the garage so the front's facing out to give me room to pull the engine/trans then the subframe. I've started to disassemble the front clip- bagging and tagging as I go.

Daniel

[DWC]

I got the front clip removed. The radiator support was in pretty good condition. There's a crack and a bit of rust in one of the lower corners that will need some attention. The driver's fender and fender extension look pretty good. The passenger fender has some rust at the lower body mount area along with a decent amount of bondo at the front inner corner. The top of the passenger fender extension where it meets the fender is full of bondo also.

The blower fan box and heater core came out easy. Also got some miscellaneous trim and other items removed.

[DWC]

Pulled the engine and trans.

I got the subframe pulled and pressure washed after soaking it in Simple Green. I wire brushed some of the seams on the underside and started welding them up. There's still too much crap in the creases and pores of the metal because the welds were coming out very porous. I'm going to have it media blasted. Once that's done, I'll heat the seams with a torch and try to burn the remaining crap out. I also trimmed the factory shock tower mounts in preparation for the Chicane coilover mounts.

The headers were covered in rust. I sanded, cleaned and painted them and they turned out pretty well.

Before and after header photos.

Daniel

[DWC]

I picked up the subframe from the sand blaster. It came out good. Hopefully, my welds will turn out better now.

Daniel

[DWC]

I borrowed an old plasma cutter from a buddy of mine and enlarged the front spring openings.

The plasma cutter was very finicky and the cuts reflect that.

But they cleaned up fine in the end.

Daniel

[DWC]

My Ridetech front end bits showed up the other week. I mocked up the front control arms, spindles, and coilovers to be sure I had proper clearances before welding the Chicane mounts in. Everything looked good so I burned them in.

I pulled the 8.2 rear end and cleaned it up. It was *caked* in crap. Once the rear brakes arrive, I'll pull the axles and replace the axle seals & bearings and the pinion seal.

Daniel

[DWC]

Been chipping away at the mundane stuff as time allows.

The rear end is painted. The axle bearings/seals and pinion seal were replaced. Started the Wilwood brake install.

The subframe is painted and ready to reinstall.

Cleaned, sanded, re-seam sealed the firewall. I don't have a current photo, but it's been primed and painted

The majority of my time has been spent on my back...scraping, sanding, priming, seam sealing, and painting the underbody. Not glorious, but it needed it for sure.

I've "massaged" the rear tub area so the Ridetech 4-link cradle fits nicely now.

Daniel

[DWC]

I got the subframe, front suspension, and brakes installed. I used the Detroit Speed body mounts- very nice pieces.

The upper link tabs were installed. I never figured out an accurate method to measure how straight the axle was before/after the welding. So, in an effort to reverse the warping from mounting the tabs on the top of the axle tube, I welded roughly the same amount of beads on the bottom of the axle, then ground it off. Not very accurate or scientific, but it will hopefully function until I upgrade the rear end.

Finally got it all together and installed.

Once I install the rear brakes, I can get the car on wheels and install the subframe connectors.

Daniel

[DWC]

The progress in the above posts' took place over the past 5 or 6 months and is up to date with how the car sits now.

Daniel

[JON Q]

Daniel, if you posting pictures, there are no pics on any of your posts

[DWC]

Well, yes, I thought I was posting photos. I can see them on my end. Let me work on that.

Thanks for the heads up.

Daniel

*Edit- photos are hopefully working now.

[shelteredV]

pictures are there for me. Looks really good! This is pretty much what I'm on scale with, but I don't weld so I'm dependant on my buddy to weld for me when he has time. It's good to see a garage build to keep us regular guys motivated and not feel too overwhelmed:headspin:

Don't get me wrong- the big pro builds are totally inspirational and beyond awesome.

[dmc69]

Nice Work! Always good to see a nice garage build!

[tubbed69]

Very nice work so far,keep updates coming:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[JON Q]

Well, yes, I thought I was posting photos. I can see them on my end. Let me work on that.

Thanks for the heads up.

Daniel

*Edit- photos are hopefully working now.

Maybe they were still loading at the time I posted since the time is pretty close to your posting. I see them now. Nice work.

[DWC]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the kind words. :thumbsup:

Daniel

[DWC]

The rear rotors and calipers are installed.

Got the car down on all four wheels. Measured and confirmed front subframe to body alignment- all looked good and square.

Cut holes in the driver and passenger floor pans and welded the subframe connectors in. I primed the welds but still need to seam seal them.

Daniel

[minendrews68]

Nice build! I'm going to be watching... Good work so far.

[Spiffav8]

I like it! Great build and you're doing it right! This is a good one to watch.

:captain:

[Roscoe03]

Great progress; you're jumping in with both feet on this. I'm looking forward to your build!

[DWC]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the encouragement.

Daniel

[rickpaw]

Nice work/progress. I sent you a PM regarding the Ridetech arms.

[DWC]

I've started on the bodywork. I have virtually no experience in bodywork, but the guy that will be painting the car is giving me guidance, so we'll see how this turns out.

After taking a good look at the front end sheet metal, I decided to get new fenders, header panel and lower valance. The originals weren't terrible, but the time/cost ratio and with my lack of body experience, I thought it best to get replacements.

The lower fender extensions, cowl and hood were initially stripped with aircraft remover.

http://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65350&stc=1&d=1523281077

http://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65351&stc=1&d=1523281077

http://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65352&stc=1&d=1523281077

Per my painter, I shot the fender extensions with etch primer once I'd sanded them down to bare metal. This isn't a big deal for most, but it was the first time I'd used an HVLP gun so I was happy to learn something new. All the other priming/painting on the car has been with aerosol cans up to this point.

http://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65353&stc=1&d=1523281077

Daniel

[Musclerodz]

depending on how bad your fenders and header was, you may have been better off fixing original parts. RARELY does aftermarket fit as good as original and can take as much or more time modifying aftermarket rather than fixing the original metal.

[DWC]

Thanks Mike. I still have the original pieces. So, if the new AMD metal is a really poor fit, I can go that route.

Daniel

[Musclerodz]

Thanks Mike. I still have the original pieces. So, if the new AMD metal is a really poor fit, I can go that route.

Daniel
Most of AMD's parts fit fairly well that I have used, but I have not used their fenders so I have no advice on how they fit.

[CarlC]

Great job and good on you for diving in.

If you're considering an aftermarket seat and are over 5'-8" tall you may want to consider doing something different with the drivers side seat pan. Many aftermarket seats have a taller lower section which may mean your head hits the headliner. Many have left the seat pan out and reinforced the floor so the seat mounts lower.

[DWC]

CarlC- thanks for the heads up. Yes, I'm 6' tall and I'm planning to use these aftermarket seats:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tip-2101?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-tmi-products&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6_SzpKO_2gIVlYSzCh0cLwPNEAQYASAB EgJ62vD_BwE

I need to order the seats and brackets and then see where I stand (or sit:)).

Daniel

[DWC]

Body work is s-l-o-w...at least when I'm doing it. I've been chipping away at stripping panels and spraying some etch primer. I'm trying to consistently devote time to the body work in order to get it to the painter soon, so I can turn my attention to other areas of the project.

Aircraft paint remover on the roof and quarters
http://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65610&stc=1&d=1525695773

The result after 2 coats
http://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65611&stc=1&d=1525695773

Stripping with Avanti Pro Quick Strip discs- these work well
http://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65612&stc=1&d=1525695773

http://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65613&stc=1&d=1525695773

http://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65614&stc=1&d=1525695773

Daniel

[ur-n-8]

Not being critical but you'll get better performance from paint stripper if you keep it out of the sun and or breeze, anything that will dry it out.

[DWC]

I don't take that as being critical, I'm here to learn. I have mechanical experience, but virtually no paint/body experience.

I found that out through trial and error and tried to move it into shade after the first stripper coat.

Daniel

[DWC]

I removed the windshield and back glass yesterday and now have to deal with the nasty urethane or butyl that remains in the window channels.

I used acetone to cleanup my tools and hands and it did ok. I read that WD40 can be used as well. Does anyone have a more efficient suggestion for cleaning up this crap?

Daniel

[Gmachine1911]

Nice Work! Always good to see a nice garage build!

I agree...I love seeing the pro builds but I've gleaned equally as much from many of the garage builds on here. I like where you're headed with this one; nice work and keep the updates coming!

[waynieZ]

Nice work! Your doing a great job. I wish I had gone with the adjustable coil overs in the front. Keep the updates coming I’m enjoying them.

[TorqStorm]

Keep up the hard work. A little bit everyday

Torqstorm

[DWC]

Update-

After letting the urethane/butyl in the window channels sit and dry out, I was able to get it off surprisingly easy with just a wire wheel. Happy about that.

I have 95% of the paint removed from the body shell. Just a few nooks and crannies left to get to.

I've never worked with body filler before...oh what a joy. It looks a hell of a lot easier on Youtube... I'm still getting a feel for how much hardener is needed when it's 85* out with 80% humidity. That stuff turns over *fast* with too much hardener. Also, trying to get a feel for how/how much to apply so I don't create more sanding than needed and/or dull body lines.

There are a few old rust repairs on the doors that need attention. I tackled the door with only one bad spot so far and I think it turned out ok. In the last photo here, I was about 90% done. I was able to blend it a bit better before I primed it.

Daniel

[waynieZ]

Nothing dull about that body line! nice job.

[DWC]

Thanks Wayne. That door just has etch primer on the bare metal. I haven't started filler work on it yet. It's a decent door to start with, but if you look close, the body line towards the bottom of the photo needs some help.

Daniel

[DWC]

The summer weather in upstate South Carolina hasn't really cooperated this summer. In order to keep from covering everything in my garage with sanding dust, I am doing all my bodywork outside in the driveway. The rain, heat, and humidity have made this challenging.

Anyway, I've been chipping along as I could. I had a bad spot on the second door that I cut out and replaced.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66666&stc=1&d=1534426217

https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66667&stc=1&d=1534426217

https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66668&stc=1&d=1534426217

https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66669&stc=1&d=1534426217

I just finished the majority of the bodywork on the second door and sprayed it with etch primer this week. With the doors set aside, I'll begin work to get the body in etch primer before I begin the body work on it.

https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66670&stc=1&d=1534426217

Daniel

[DWC]

I have limited knowledge when it comes to rear ends. I've not really had to do much work on them beyond what I've done in this thread (replaced axle bearing, seals, welded on the Ridetech 4-link brackets, cleaned and painted).

The rear end that came with my car is an 8.2" 10 bolt, NON posi, with 2.73 gears. I'm aiming for 400 hp/torque from the SBC400 I'll be rebuilding and have a close ratio Muncie M21 4 speed transmission.

My concern is that the non posi, 2.73, rear end I have now is going to be too mild to really use/feel/enjoy 400 hp/torque.

I may have a lead on an 8.5" 10 bolt, posi, with 3.42 gears, with new Timken bearings throughout.

Any thoughts/suggestions/guidance? Questions to ask the seller?

Daniel

[DWC]

Here's what I know from speaking with the seller.

It has new Timken axle, carrier, and pinion bearings and National seals. Original, factory Eaton(?) posi, gears, and 28 spline axles- all in very good condition according to him. It's set up with .008 backlash and is 53 1/4" wide from backing plate to backing plate. I can get it for $750.

Any thoughts/opinions before I pull the trigger on this?

Here's some photos:

[Ketzer]

Those are several good upgrades, Posi, better gear ratio. The rearend is plenty strong enough for a street car as long as you're not trying to run sticky tires and do hard launches all the time.
Make sure you take a good look at the gears before you hand over the cash, No pitting or super sharp edges on the teeth...


Jeff-

[DWC]

Thanks Jeff. I’m not a drag race guy, so no drag slicks. This car will see spirited street driving and the occasional autocross.

Thanks for the tip regarding the gears.

Daniel

[DWC]

I got the 8.5" 10 bolt yesterday. From what I can tell, everything checks out to be what it was advertised to be.

The gear compound marks and the teeth seem to be acceptable.

I did find one interesting thing to note. The stamping on the ring gear reads 3984831 12 14 3 78. I'm pretty sure the 14 was stamped backwards and should read 41, denoting the ring gear tooth count. I counted the ring gear teeth and there are 41 and the pinion has 12 teeth, which is a 3.42 gear ratio.

Daniel

[DWC]

I've been working on the car...I swear. I haven't updated this thread because it's just been boring, redundant filler, then sand, then filler, then sand...

I'm wrapping up the bodywork/filler process on my body shell and was unsure of a few things and I'm hoping someone can provide some insight.

Seam sealer- I'm spraying etch primer next, then spraying 2K urethane primer, then blocking with progressively finer grits. At what point during this process do I apply seam sealer (for instance, where the rear quarter panels meet the taillight panel)?

New body panels- I'm replacing a few panels with AMD repops that are EDP coated. Should they be scuffed>etch primed>2K primed? What about the inner side of the panel- just etch primer or just leave the EDP?

Thanks in advance.

Daniel

[DWC]

I was able to spray a final coat of etch primer on the body, then sprayed urethane primer on the body, doors, spoiler, and cowl.

Daniel

[Gmachine1911]

I was able to spray a final coat of etch primer on the body, then sprayed urethane primer on the body, doors, spoiler, and cowl.

Daniel

Looking good! Keep up the good work!

[DWC]

I got the doors hung and gapped, along with the fenders. Still have to tweak the header panel, valance, hood and install the grille. It's starting to look like a car again though...

I have to shorten the aluminum DSE core support bushings. The front end is mocked up with wood pieces that are about 1/4" shorter than the DSE bushings. Have to find someone with a lathe for that though.

Daniel

[Chiva]

Nice progress. Really nice work for someone who says they have really never done it before!

[DWC]

Thanks Chiva. The bodywork isn't rocket science, just time consuming/labor intensive. The weather here has been rain for the past few weekends, which has really slowed my progress.

My goal is to have it to the painter by the end of December.

Daniel

[DWC]

Off to paint...finally.

Daniel

[slimjim]

happy day, who do you have painting it?

[DWC]

A small body shop right down the street from where I live. He's basically mentored/challenged me to do all the bodywork up to this point. Giving me tips/tricks and letting me buy supplies through his account and receive his discount. He's got a nice 68 Camaro as well.

Daniel

[slimjim]

That's really neat, I can't wait to see how it turns out.

[DWC]

Got the car back from the painter this morning before the rain moved in. This picture sucks and the car is wet from an earlier shower. I'll snap some better ones when the weather clears.

Daniel

[Chiva]

Your Camaro must have had a get out of paint jail free card b/c that was FAST!!

Looks nice.

[DWC]

Haha, yeah. I had a couple things in my favor- I've become friends with the body shop owner, it's a small shop with only one paint booth and a few bays, and he had other work waiting, he basically only had to mask and spray my car. But yes, it was a quick turnaround, which I'm thankful for.

Daniel

[Roscoe03]

That is a nice color. The car is looking great!

[DWC]

Got the Ridetech 4-link brackets welded on the 8.5" 10 bolt and got the rear suspension wrapped up. It's dirty, but I rolled it out since the sun was out and snapped a few photos with the new wheel/tires.

[tubbed69]

Car looks great,I am sure you excited with the progress.Seems like paint is always a major accomplishment:trophy-1302:

[DWC]

Installed a new gas tank and Ridetech gas cap.

I picked up a 383 stroker. Been changing out some of the engine top end. Got the new intake and valve covers on.

Daniel

[DWC]

It's nice to actually start assembly and see some progress.

I got the master cylinder, prop valve, and brake lines installed. Along with some new hood hinges.

Daniel

[DWC]

I've been working on a few different areas of the car. I painted the upper and lower dash.

I got the Vintage Air evaporator and condenser installed. I'll wrap up the HVAC once the engine is in and I can hook up the compressor.

I painted the engine block and oil pan. Finally decided on an engine accessory drive and got that installed along with the motor mounts and starter.

**(In ref to the engine photo, do I still need to install the balancer center bolt???)

I'm mounting the battery in the trunk and making a mount for it. It'll be mounted in the center area of the trunk on an angle. I'm using an AGM battery due to the angle. The mount will have a starter solenoid and battery cut off attached as well. Still need to paint it. (Don't judge my aluminum welds- I'm new to MIG with a spool gun )

Also, bleeding this new brake system has been an exercise in patience. I've been using a vacuum bleeder with mediocre results. My son and I did the traditional 2 man bleeding last night and I was getting good fluid at all calipers, but the pedal is still soft. I've still got some work to do there.

My clutch and flywheel showed up so I plan to install those this week. Hope to get the trans installed also and drop the engine/trans in this weekend.

Daniel

[orangevert]

Great job and good on you for diving in.

If you're considering an aftermarket seat and are over 5'-8" tall you may want to consider doing something different with the drivers side seat pan. Many aftermarket seats have a taller lower section which may mean your head hits the headliner. Many have left the seat pan out and reinforced the floor so the seat mounts lower.

Do you have any pictures? It be nice to see how they reinforced the floor.
Thank Kirk. Not trying to hijack a thread here.

[Musclerodz]

yes you still the center bolt. Its what holds the balancer to the crank

[WSSix]

x2 Get and ARP one at this point if you don't already have a center bolt.

I'd mount the battery over the right side frame rail behind the tire. Battery mount looks good.

Glad you're making progress. Love the color combination you've chosen.

[DWC]

Got the engine/trans in the car this weekend. Also, installed the radiator/fan.

Daniel

[Spiffav8]

Nice!! Looks super clean. Love it!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[DWC]

Thanks Curtis. :)

Daniel

[Brianstanford]

Looking good!

[DWC]

I got a decent amount accomplished over the weekend.

The headers are installed. It's tight, but I finally persuaded everything to fit with a BFH. Installed the clutch Z bar, oil pressure sender, heater hose fittings, coolant overflow tank.

Started the fab on my seat brackets. I need to lower the seat some more. I think I can gain about 1/2". A tilt column would be nice to raise the steering wheel just a bit as well. May be added in the future.

I got the trunk painted. Added the starter solenoid, battery cut off, fuel pump relay and circuit breaker to the battery mount.

Made a bracket to mount the fuel pump.

Daniel

[214Chevy]

Car looks real good DWC. I like it!!

[DWC]

I ordered a set of Speedhut gauges and planned to use the stock gauge cluster to mount the speedo and tach. I ordered Speedhut's 5" trim rings thinking they'd be plug and play and a straightforward way to install their gauges in the stock cluster...not quite.

The trim rings were larger than the cluster's opening diameter. Speedhut gauges mount with a threaded ring, not like Autometer gauges that use a bracket. So, I came up with the following to center the trim rings in the stock cluster opening and allow the Speedhut gauge mounting ring to thread on. Seems stout enough, time will tell.

Cut, bent, drilled, tapped, countersunk, and threaded some aluminum stock I had for the upper mounts.

Cut, bent and slotted some steel sheet stock I had for the upper retainers.

Epoxied the mounts to the cluster.

[DWC]

Gauges are now centered and seem solid.

On to the next task that should take 10 minutes, but actually takes hours...:headscratch::)

Daniel

[Roscoe03]

Those gauges look awesome!

[ilikeike]

I remember having to make a backplate for my speedhut gauges also.

Wish I would have put the fuel gauge in like you did,it would have freed up a spit in my consol.

Looks good.

[rixtrix1]

Cluster looks great!

[DWC]

Thanks guys.

Daniel

[waynieZ]

Nice job on the gauge install. They came out great.

[DWC]

Thanks Wayne.

I had the windshield and back glass installed today. I finished making the driver's seat bracket. Been installing grounds, plumbing the fuel system, installing ignition box and coil, installing the parking brake setup, etc.

I've received some parts I'd been waiting on, so that should move things along. Ordered a TMI 1 piece headliner today from MCB. TMI is running 10-12 weeks out...looks like the first few drives will be without.

Daniel

[DWC]

Installed the wiper motor. I went with a New Port wiper motor to gain some space...and I think they look better than the original.

Made a coil bracket and got that installed.

Also got the fuel lines run, fuel rail installed, Lokar parking brake cables installed/adjusted, AC lines crimped/installed, pedal covers installed, throttle bracket and cable installed. Oh, and had the windshield and back glass installed as well.

And not it's time for some wiring fun...

Wiring is not a strength of mine. Hopefully, I can stumble through it without too many hiccups.

Daniel

[Spiffav8]

Wiring isn't in my area of expertise either. You're doing great...then again I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about. :knock::whistling:

[DWC]

I've been working on the wiring and I'm stumped on getting the engine started. Tried to start for the first time a couple of weeks ago. The engine turns over nice- have oil pressure, fuel pressure, strong starter turnover- engine won't fire. Probed a few wires and called MSD. MSD had me check for 12v at the MSD green and violet wires that plug into my distributor- nothing. They said send it back to them. Sent it back, they tested the ignition box and coil- both tested good.

Reinstalled everything this morning, still no luck.

Here's what I'm working with:
MSD StreetFire ignition box (very similar to 6AL)
MSD Blaster SS coil
New Rebel Wiring harness
New ignition switch
New Ford solenoid mounted in trunk next to new AGM battery

The ignition switch pictured is currently setup like this:
BAT terminal- wired to red 12V IGN SW PWR wire
ACC terminal- wired to brown IGN SW ACC wire
SOL terminal- wired to purple IGN SW START & pink COIL wire (pink COIL wire runs to red MSD 12v switched source wire)
IGN terminal- wired to orange IGN SW IGN wire
KEY-, KEY+, and GRD terminals not used

**I have also tried the pink COIL wire piggybacked to the IGN terminal with the orange IGN SW IGN wire- no luck**

The "heavy" red MSD ignition box power lead is wired to the "I" post of the Ford solenoid and I verified 12v when cranking engine.

Sorry for the long post, but so far I have failed to get voltage to the Blaster coil while cranking.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Daniel

[camcojb]

It sounds like the MSD trigger wire (small red I believe) is not hooked to the ignition switch wire (12 volts when cranking). I would also think the BAT terminal on the switch should go to battery voltage off the fuse box (BAT fuse) or other 12 volts at all times source.

I would connect the red 12V IGN SW PWR wire to the trigger wire from the MSD box, and run a new 12 volt power from the bat fuse or battery to the ignition switch.

[DWC]

I've been out all day and just now getting back to work on the car.

The red IGN SW PWR wire is currently connected to the BAT terminal on the ignition switch and I've verified it's constant 12v.

The pink COIL wire that's attached to the IGN terminal does get 12v when cranking. That pink COIL wire is what's connected to the MSD red trigger wire.

I just verified the pink COIL wire is sending 12v to the MSD box...**ACTUALLY- I've been using a test light to verify voltage, but I just put my meter on the pink COIL wire and I have 12v when I switch to ACC, but when cranking it drops to 11v. Could that be the issue??

I've occasionally been putting the battery on a Battery Tender after these cranking sessions. The current battery voltage is 12.54v.

Thought- do I need a ground wire connected to the GRD terminal on the ignition switch? The switch has not been installed in the metal dash, it's just loose on the floorboard and in my hand when cranking. I haven't connected the GRD terminal up to this point because the diagrams I've seen didn't have it connected.

Wiring sucks....

Daniel

[johnnymac46]

I just verified the pink COIL wire is sending 12v to the MSD box...**ACTUALLY- I've been using a test light to verify voltage, but I just put my meter on the pink COIL wire and I have 12v when I switch to ACC, but when cranking it drops to 11v. Could that be the issue??

I've occasionally been putting the battery on a Battery Tender after these cranking sessions. The current battery voltage is 12.54v.

Daniel

I’d be willing to bet it’s the voltage drop during cranking. I’d try a more substantial charging system than a trickle charger if you have access to one. My .02, I demon go a couple days before I figured out it was dude to lack of voltage under cranking.

[DWC]

Finally, got the engine to fire yesterday. Not sure which of the two adjustments made a difference to the MSD box that got it working. I had the battery (in the trunk) grounded with 1/0 cable to the trunk pan with a through bolt. I added another run of 1/0 cable from the underside of the through bolt to the frame rail. I already had grounds from each head to the frame rails, frame rail to firewall, frame to core support, all with 1/0 cable. The second adjustment was leaving the battery on the battery tender overnight to get a full charge.

After these, I had spark...great. I tried starting the engine, it cranked strong a few times, but no start. Tried again, it "puffed" out of the carb. Tried again, it backfired out of the carb...it's 180 out. So, rotated the balancer to 0, pulled the distributor cap and, yep, 180 out. Fixed that, then she fired!

I can only run it for a few seconds because the AC compressor pulley isn't spinning for some reason. I don't have the Vintage Air controls hooked up yet, maybe that's the cause. I'll troubleshoot that next, then set the timing once I can let the engine run.

Thanks for everyone's help with the ignition troubleshooting.

Daniel

PS- I have a short startup video, but can't seem to get the wmv file to attach.

[DWC]

I've been working on a dash console to house some gauges, vents and HVAC controls. Still need to bodywork the seams, then paint it. It will attach over the OEM piece, then to the dash.

Daniel

[DWC]

I got the dash console finished.

Daniel

[Spiffav8]

That turned out really nice! Well done! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[DWC]

Thanks Curtis.

Daniel

[DWC]

Got the grill installed.

Daniel

[CCS]

I got the dash console finished.

Daniel

Awesome!! Congrats, great job!!

[T_Raven]

Can I ask what color that is?
I've been looking for the right shade of blue for my 69 Firebird and I really like that

[DWC]

It's Grotto Blue. I haven't seen too many Grotto Blue cars in person, but mine seems a bit lighter than others. It could be because we used a white urethane sealer under the color versus a gray. Not totally sure though.

Daniel

[DWC]

The dash console and gauge cluster is installed. I got the exhaust installed as well. I'm chasing some electrical gremlins- turn signals, brake lights, hazards aren't working. Think the tail light housings aren't grounded well due to the new paint.

Need to set the timing and adjust the carb because it's idling about 1500 rpms.

Daniel

[DWC]

I'd been fighting issues with the turn signals, hazards, brake lights and horn. I found the turn signal switch was old, brittle, and not working properly. Along with that the upper steering column bearing was worn out. It was the original, non-tilt, column, which I was planning to replace in the future. So, I went ahead and picked up a universal tilt column. I had to weld 4 nuts on shaft to be able to mount the stock column mounting bracket and adapt the rag joint to the bottom of the column shaft. But, overall it went pretty smooth and all the lights are now working properly.

I added a reverse switch to the Muncie, finished the wiring and secured the wires under dash, chased down some coolant leaks at the upper radiator hose, installed an MSD diode to remedy my engine run on, installed side mirrors, door locks and handles, etc.

I'm close to a test drive. Next up is finishing the interior. My *goal* is to have the car completed enough to make the next Cars and Coffee in town on 7/27. We'll see...

Daniel

[DWC]

I have been fighting an ignition no/intermittent spark issue. Turns out it was the Chinese Pro Comp distributor that came with the engine when I bought it. It was an MSD Pro Billet distributor knock-off and I knew it was used. It *looked* fine, no excessive wear, wires looked good, but it obviously has some issue.

I installed a new MSD Pro Billet distributor and now everything is happy. Still have some carb tuning and timing adjustments to do.

The TMI headliner, sail panels, and A pillar covers are installed. The A pillar covers weren't the best fit, but I massaged them in. The sail panels have a "tab" attached on the backside that slides up and under the outer edge of the headliner to hold it in place. Only problem is TMI made them about an inch short of what they need to be. :confused: So, I epoxied some aluminum strap to the existing tab to extend them and it fit well.

The roof rail weatherstripping is installed. The door glass is installed and adjusted. The driver side went smooth, the passenger side was a PIA and I'm still not completely happy with it.

Just need to get the quarter window glass installed and then I can hang the interior door and quarter panels.

Daniel

[RdHuggr68]

I've been working on a dash console to house some gauges, vents and HVAC controls. Still need to bodywork the seams, then paint it. It will attach over the OEM piece, then to the dash.

Daniel

What gauge metal did you use, and size of the vents. Thanks

[DWC]

I used 18ga metal and the vents have a 2.5" diameter HOLE. Bezel is about 2 5/8".

Daniel

[DWC]

The steering gear box that's currently on the car is leaking at the input shaft. I ordered a rebuilt Cardone 276550 from Amazon on Friday. It showed up today and it's a 14.4 ratio box, not 12.7 that I wanted. I'd heard it was a crap shoot as to what ratio you actually receive with these rebuilt boxes.

Is 12.7 going to make that much difference over a 14.4 box? I will autocross the car and I'd like to kill two birds with one stone if I swap boxes- fix the leak and quicken the steering. But, if it's not that much different I may settle.

Thoughts?

Daniel

[c4racer2]

The steering gear box that's currently on the car is leaking at the input shaft. I ordered a rebuilt Cardone 276550 from Amazon on Friday. It showed up today and it's a 14.4 ratio box, not 12.7 that I wanted. I'd heard it was a crap shoot as to what ratio you actually receive with these rebuilt boxes.

Is 12.7 going to make that much difference over a 14.4 box? I will autocross the car and I'd like to kill two birds with one stone if I swap boxes- fix the leak and quicken the steering. But, if it's not that much different I may settle.

Thoughts?

Daniel

I feel it is significant and for autox you want the faster ratio for sure. Some people even like 10:1 for autox although personally I think that's overkill.

[DWC]

Thanks c4racer2. That's what I thought, just needed some confirmation before I continued the hunt for the right box.

Daniel

[DWC]

The past few days I've been working on the interior. I've installed the package tray, door panels, door sills, kick panels, shifter and boot, carpet, seat belts and driver's seat. TMI sent the incorrect seat sliders for the passenger seat, so I'm waiting on the correct ones.

Getting dangerously close to a first drive...

Daniel

[DWC]

After receiving two rebuilt Cardone boxes with the wrong steering ratios (first was 14.4:1, second was 15.5:1), I ordered a new Borgeson 12.7:1 box from Summit on Thursday and it arrived on Friday. Got it installed Saturday morning. It was a tight fit that required some grinding on the box and some BFH on #3 header tube, but it finally wrestled in.

Yesterday, I took it around the block a few times for the first time. :cool: First drives are always exciting. I have a few issues to address- PS pump fitting leak, belt pulley alignment, finalize timing, and a driveline vibration. Once I get those sorted I can take it for a proper alignment and AC charge.

Daniel

[pw2006]

I just read the entire thread, congrats! After too many years in body/paint jail, my 69 finally has color. Hoping to get it back in my garage by end of summer so I can start assembly. Your build turned out beautiful!

[Goosesdad]

Fantastic!

[DWC]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

Daniel

[DWC]

Alright, I should be tearing up the streets at this point, but I haven't even made it out of the neighborhood.

My engine feels as though it is out of balance. I've tried a number of things to solve the issue, but I'm at a loss at this point. I'm all ears for suggestions, next steps, whatever. This post may be a bit long, but I want to include all the details in hopes someone can pick up on something I'm missing.

Here are the details-
383 stroker engine I purchased in person and we ran it on an engine stand to verify it ran good and all looked/sounded fine
Aluminum 64cc heads
Lunati hydraulic flat tappet cam- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-60105
Hyper pistons
5.7" rods
Aluminum roller rockers
Edlebrock Performer 2701 intake manifold (new)
Windage tray
7 qt oil pan
Full length headers
Summit Racing external balanced harmonic balancer (called Summit to verify this)
Energy Suspension poly motor and trans mounts (new)
93 octane fuel

Other pertinent parts-
MSD Street Fire ignition box (new)
MSD Billet distributor (new)
NGK BKR7E spark plugs- gapped to .040 (new)
Taylor 8mm plug wires (new)
Holley 4779 double pumper 750cfm carb (new)
McLeod 75224 clutch (new)
PRW external balance, 168 tooth flywheel (new)
New pilot bushing, new throwout bearing, new clutch fork
Muncie M21 4 speed transmission

Above is the current engine setup. When I bought the engine, I removed and replaced the following parts:
Single plane intake
Holley 9381 830cfm carb
Valve covers
SFI external balance flexplate
Electric water pump

When I initially got the engine home, I removed the oil pan to check out the bottom end, etc. Everything looked good. I could still see hone marks on the cylinder walls, windage tray was secure, oil pump looked good, etc. I put a new Fel Pro gasket on and reinstalled the oil pan.

Engine has always had strong oil pressure- about 65psi. It ran rich with the 830cfm carb and was carbon fouling plugs extremely fast. It had big jets, and some other mods done to it, so I replaced it with the 750cfm. The engine starts fine and seems ok at idle. Once you rev over 1000 rpms, you can begin to feel the excessive vibration and it sounds almost like the timing is out of order. I don't hear any weird valvetrain or other engine noise and have no exhaust smoke. I checked the plug wire routing a billion times. I also have a Bluetooth bore camera that I've used to look in all the cylinders and all looks fine.

The static compression ratio is about 11.5:1, but with the ABDC of my cam and our altitude, it calculates to 9.5:1 dynamic compression ratio.

I never removed the Summit harmonic balancer that was on the engine when I bought it. I thought I may have oriented the flywheel incorrectly. But today, I looked up through the bottom opening of the bellhousing and where the crankshaft dowel hole is in relation to the weight I can see on the flywheel, it seems that the flywheel is correctly oriented. I went back and looked at a photo of the flexplate that was on the engine when I bought it and before I removed it and the counterweight on the flexplate looks to be in the same orientation that is now on my flywheel. I've called Summit to verify the harmonic balancer is for an externally balanced engine and I can see/feel the counterweight on the backside.

Any help is greatly appreciated, I'm beyond frustrated at this point.

Daniel

[WSSix]

Did you have the new flywheel balanced matched to the old one? You can't just replaced an external balanced flywheel with another external balanced unit. They aren't necessarily counter weighted the same.

If you didn't do this, you need to take the old flywheel and clutch pressure plate along with the new flywheel and clutch pressure plate to a machine shop and tell them what you're trying to do. Don't ever assume a clutch pressure plate is zero balanced out of the box. Always include it when doing any balancing work.

[DWC]

Trey- Unfortunately, I did not do that because I was unaware it needed to be done. The engine had an SFI external balance flexplate on it when I bought it (he ran an auto trans). I called PRW, told them my setup, verified their flywheel would work with the McCleod clutch I was getting and ordered the flywheel. They did not mention any balancing was required.

Here is the flywheel I ordered.

https://www.jegs.com/i/PRW/228/1640081/10002/-1

Since the specs matched what I needed, I thought it was good to go out of the box. I sold the flexplate the engine came with. I guess I can try to get in touch with the buyer and see if I can get it back.

Thanks for the input,

Daniel

[SSLance]

Are you convinced it is a balance issue and not a misfire? Maybe get it running where it is shaking at it's worse and put a infared heat gun on each header tube to verify they are all firing.

I have found that a long stroke SBC feels differently than just about any other engine, at times I've felt like mine was out of balance as well. I can tell you though now that I have EFI controlling both the timing and fuel delivery...it is buttery smooth everywhere and I didn't change any hard parts pertaining to balance.

Just a thought...

[DWC]

Lance- it's funny you mention that. When I was trying to tune the 830cfm carb and adjust timing, I used an infrared gun to check the header tubes. But, I did it quickly and didn't pay much attention because our attention was drawn to another issue that day.

I will check the tubes today now that the new carb is installed. Honestly, I was hoping it was a carb tune/timing issue that was causing the vibration, but the new carb didn't seem to have any effect on the vibration.

Thanks for the input,

Daniel

[nicks67ca]

I the engine is truly out of balance this may sound low tech but if you don't want to re-balance the whole engine you could remove the trans and clutch. Then run the car with just the flywheel. this would take the clutch out of the equation. Then using the bolt holes for the clutch you can add weight to different areas to see if it helps you balance. If you find a combo that works you can take your flywheel and have weights added or removed.

[DWC]

I spoke with a PRW tech this morning and he had me verify my flywheel counterweight was bolted on in the correct position and had the correct part number stamping. Apparently, there are 2 positions. I verified my weight IS in the correct position and I have the correct part stamp. He advised me to remove the weight and verify it weighs 156.1 grams, which I'll do this evening. He says if it's a few grams or more off, it could cause vibration.

nicks67ca- Thanks for the tip. I really hope I don't have to pull the engine and tear it down.

Daniel

[DWC]

Interesting thing I discovered this evening. I brought home a cheap infrared temp gun from work to shoot the header tubes. Cylinders 1, 2, and 6 seem to heat up much quicker than the rest of the cylinders. Those cylinders are reaching 300* really quick, and the other cylinders are still in the mid 100's. I'm only letting it idle for less than a minute. I don't want to run it anymore than I have to until I figure out what's going on. I'm ASSuming if I were to let it get up to full temp, the cylinder temps would still be inconsistent.

Thoughts?

Daniel

[Panteracer]

Last time I saw that much heat difference
was when my dizzy was 180 out in my Pantera
I would double check. Yes it ran but not good

Bob

[DWC]

Bob- I would love for that to be the root of the issue. I'll double check tonight. When I originally installed my old distributor, it was 180 out and the engine would backfire, sputter, barely run at all. Currently, it starts right up and idles decent, but a little rough. Then when revved above 1k rpms, vibrates and sounds like ass.

I need to post a video and maybe someone can pick up on something I've not mentioned.

Daniel

[DWC]

This afternoon I removed the distributor and plug wires, reset the engine to TDC, reinstalled the dist and wires...no improvement. Put my timing gun lead on all plug wires and verified they were all firing.

I then adjusted/closed the carb idle screws on all four corners and it seemed to reduce the vibration...maybe 30%. I noticed #1 plug was fouled again when I was setting TDC, so I'll replace them all and continue to tune the carb. Also, I shot the header tubes with the infrared gun after adjusting the carb and the temps were much closer to each other.

Lastly, I removed the counterweight on the flywheel and weighed it. Mine weighs 161 grams and the PRW tech I spoke to yesterday said it should weigh 156.1 grams. He said more than a couple grams could effect the balance. I know 5 grams isn't much (weight of a quarter), but I'm hoping with it being so far from the crank centerline, it's causing the vibration. Fingers crossed. I'm going to have him send me another...with the correct weight.

Daniel

[DWC]

PRW is sending me a 156.1 gram counterweight that'll be here Friday.

On another note, I did a compression test today-
1- 215
3- 215
5- 210
7- 215
2- 215
4- 215
6- 205
8- 210

I'm ready to get the vibration solved and drive.

Daniel

[DWC]

Good news, the engine vibration seems to be gone/acceptable. I installed the replacement flywheel counterweight and that reduced the vibration about 20%. Then I tuned the carb with a vacuum gauge and that reduced it another 70%. I initially had the corner idle screws out 1.5 turns per Holley. With that, I only had 4hg of vacuum. I adjusted the screws until I had 11hg of vacuum at idle and 20hg at about 2500 rpms. The corner idle screws are at about 1/2 to 2/3 of a turn out from fully seated.

I believe the remaining 10% is just me not being used to a big cammed stroker motor. I visited my painter on Saturday and he has a 68 Camaro with a 383 stroker and has as much vibration in the steering wheel at idle as I do now.

My engine temps are much better as a result. It sits about 190-195* at idle.

I have 3 current issues I’m working on:
-after about minute of idle, the exhaust starts to “pop” every few seconds. I guess the pop would be considered a backfire
-when I let the clutch out and I’m coasting, the car surges/bucks
-when I shut the car off, I have engine run on for a few seconds. I can get around this by cutting it off in gear. But I’d rather fix it properly.

I feel that these issues are tied to the carb and I need to continue to tune it. But, I don’t really know what to do next. I did retorque the header bolts and sprayed carb cleaner around the carb hunting for a vacuum leak, but didn’t get an rpm change.

Daniel

[SSLance]

That is great news! The rest of your issues sound timing related to me. What are you using for a distributor and ignition?

[DWC]

Lance- I have about 35* total timing (15 initial, 21 mechanical advance). I have an MSD billet distributor, MSD Street Fire ignition box, MSD Blaster SS coil, Taylor 8mm plug wires, and Autolite 3922 plugs. All of those are new.

Daniel

[WSSix]

You should consider getting the car tuned at this point. Might not be easy finding someone that knows how to tune a carb unfortunately. I agree with Lance. Your current issues are carb/timing issues.

Glad you go the vibration figured out.

[eville]

run on is usually timing, maybe carb if the engine isn't worn out. I'd verify TDC (ie make sure your timing mark is accurate) then throw a light on it. Most SBC like around 18 initial and 18 mechanical. But I'd be surprised if 15 initial caused run on. Is the carb new? If not, did you put a rebuild kit in in recently? Also, not sure if i saw what you said you had the idle set at...

[DWC]

Trey- Funny you say that. Yesterday, a friend gave me the number of a local guy that tunes carbs. I have a few more things to try on the carb, and if those don't pan out, I'll probably take it to him.

I hope I can figure it out on my own, because I'll need that knowledge/skill in the future with this car.

Steve- The carb is new. The idle is about 900rpms. I'm going to pull the carb and check the transfer slot adjustment. My idle mix screws are only about 1/2 a turn out. I think the car maybe idling partly on transfer slot fuel. At least that's my understanding from reading the past few days.

Daniel

[SSLance]

So, in this day and age, there are better ways to control timing than mechanical advance. I have a couple spare MSD 6AL-2 boxes that when used with a locked out distributor you can use to make the timing whatever you want it to be whenever you want it to be. I ran one for about 5 years on my 383 before swapping to EFI couple months ago and it worked great. You can even tie in a MAP sensor to really tie the timing to load as well as RPM.

When I watch the display now of what my Holley EFI ECU is doing to my timing to control my idle and cruise...it blows my mind. I'm not suggesting that you switch to EFI now (but you would love it if you did) but watch this display to see how my ECU makes my stroker idle like a 2016 Camaro.

xbWcSICesWQ

[Musclerodz]

Are you certain your not 180* out on timing?

[DWC]

Lance- I watched that video in your build thread- jealous. I may end up with EFI in the future, but want to at least build a working knowledge of carbs just for my own weird curiosity.

Mike- I'm 99% certain it's not 180 out. Just to be sure, last week I removed the distributor and plug wires, reset the engine to TDC, reinstalled the dist and wires.

Daniel

[Musclerodz]

Lance- I watched that video in your build thread- jealous. I may end up with EFI in the future, but want to at least build a working knowledge of carbs just for my own weird curiosity.

Mike- I'm 99% certain it's not 180 out. Just to be sure, last week I removed the distributor and plug wires, reset the engine to TDC, reinstalled the dist and wires.

Daniel
You can have TDC on intake stroke and exhaust stroke. Have you tried to run it without the MSD box? I have had more trouble with those than they are worth.

[DWC]

Mike- That's right, and I made that mistake initially when trying to get the engine started for the very first time. But, it wouldn't start at all like that and backfired pretty good through the carb before I fixed it.

I've only used the MSD box. I sent the box and coil back to MSD for them to test to eliminate that as a possible issue and they both tested fine.

Daniel

[SSLance]

Something else I discovered after the EFI swap was a low voltage issue. With the carb setup, at times the car would idle very rough...usually when hot out, both cooling fans running and the AC on. I always blamed the carb...

Come to find out, it did the same thing only with worse consequences once EFI was added. I'm convinced now that when the volts would drop below 12.0, the MSD wouldn't fire the plugs hot enough to fire every stroke in every hole.

Just something else to consider if you haven't already.

[DWC]

I got the O2 sensor installed just downstream of the header collector. Connected the gauge, and within a few minutes I had the carb idling best yet, 11hg of vacuum, and 13.75ish AFR. I took the car for the first drive out of the neighborhood and put about 10 miles on it. Woohoo

I also had to raise the primary fuel bowl level a hair and lower the secondary fuel bowl level a good bit. (The car/carb was level when adjusting)

I still have the occasional exhaust pop/backfire and some engine run on when shutting down.

I'll take some AFR readings while driving soon.

The wideband makes a huge difference in tuning ability.

Daniel

[CamaroAJ]

I still have the occasional exhaust pop/backfire and some engine run on when shutting down.

Daniel

If your timing is off that can cause it. So can high idle, running hot, to lean or rich.

[DWC]

Camaroaj- Thanks for the input. I'm going to play with the timing some more. Currently the engine temp is steady at 190* and the AFR seems to be in an acceptable range at idle. I may still have adjustments to make at cruise and WOT.

I haven't worked much on the car recently due to other obligations. I'm dropping the car off at the painter today so he can fix an issue around the trunk water channel, take care of a few pieces of trash that got in the clear and cut/buff it. Next week I plan to have it aligned and get the AC charged.

The exhaust is currently just 2.5" pipe from the header collectors to 13" chinese Flowmaster knockoff mufflers on each side with turndowns in front of the axle. I'm going to install an X-pipe and some 14" Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers to help reduce the noise level. It's currently a bit much for street duty.

Daniel

[DWC]

I made it out to the local Cars and Coffee a few weeks ago. It was nice to get the car out of my driveway for a while.

This past Saturday was a washout so I decided to tackle the exhaust redo. I got the X pipe and Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers installed. Overall, it went smoother than expected considering I'd never done one before.

I'm still working on the engine/carb tune. My A/F ratio gauge reads 14.5ish at idle, but it still smells very rich, the spark plugs are dark, and I get intermittent exhaust "popping." I may break down and try to find a carb "expert" soon. We'll see.

Daniel

[Spiffav8]

Looks good! Glad you got the car out for some fun.

:captain:

[DWC]

I've been fiddling with the carb the last few weeks and felt I was making progress, but still not all the way there. I took the car for a spin on Sunday and the engine still had a significant vibration that would come in at 1500 rpms through 3500 rpms, go away until 4500 rpms, then return. Parked the car...f&ck!!!!!

I was messing around shooting the headers with an infrared thermo this evening and noticed the #8 cylinder was about 100 degrees cooler than the others. Inspected the #8 plug wire, looked brand new as it should. Then I decided to check the firing order for ****s and giggles...since I've done so over 2 dozen times.

That's when I found the GREATEST STUPID MISTAKE I've made with this build.....I had the #6 and #8 spark plug wires flipped!!!! :eek::p

Flipped them back the way they should be, fired it up and it's so smooth through the rpms now. HUGE difference.

Time to put some miles on it. :D

Daniel

[DWC]

Once I got the engine vibration sorted from my bonehead mistake, I put some miles on the car and noticed a significant driveline vibration. Up to this point, the driveline angles were just eye-balled as everything was installed. So, after a lot of reading about angles and adjustments, I started taking measurements and making adjustments.

I found a great driveline angle app from Tremec. Here is what I started with:

https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70892&stc=1&d=1575640133

My engine/trans angle was pretty much set due to interference with my headers and the firewall/floorpan and interference with the clutch arm and trans tunnel. I did raise the rear ride height slightly to help with angles and to prevent tire rub on the passenger inner wheel well. So, the Ridetech 4-link was where I focused my adjustment. After about a dozen adjustments and measurements, I ended up with:

https://lateral-g.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70893&stc=1&d=1575640133

It's obviously not perfect, but after a quick test drive last night it is MUCH better.

Daniel

[572Camaro]

Hey DWC..,
I love your honesty.
I think the way you diagnose and post on this forum helps us all.
If I don’t screw up twice a day, I ain’t living.
This is my way of saying thanks for this useful post.

PS.
Back in 1976, I took my girlfriend to my high school prom in a 68 camaro with a 230ci straight six.
To make a lumpy idle to simulate a cam, I drove to the prom with two plug wires crossed DELIBERATELY.
Ran like crap but sounded like a funny car!
Lol

[DWC]

I appreciate the comment. I figure nobody knows everything and we all have to start somewhere. It seems I'm always scouring the internet and forums trying to find the answer to some obscure question or issue I'm having. Without forums such as this I would REALLY struggle to make ground and the learning curve would be tremendously steeper.

This build thread not only allows me to document my build, for my own sake, but may hopefully provide a bit of insight for someone else down the road.

Daniel

[Barnburner]

One of the best things about this forum is the lack of criticism for honest mistakes. You can post your victories and everyone supports you, if you step on your hoo-hoo and everyone still supports you!

[WSSix]

That's because we try to make it more of a community instead of a hive mind one up fest like so many other forums turn into. We all have our visions and we'll all need help getting there. It's why I came here from other places. Those other places certainly have valuable information available, too, but this place feels better.

Good work on the car, DWC. I feel your pain with the vibrations. I still have not figured mine out. I swear I have the angles dialed in, but I need to check again with a drive on lift preferably. Keep at it with a methodical approach and you'll get it. Don't forget to keep the working angle of each joint below 3*, as well. I completely missed that in my efforts to make my angles equal and opposite.

[DWC]

I've been putting some miles on the car. Not as many as I'd like though.

My son and I went to the local Cars and Coffee the other week, which is always fun. (I robbed some photos off the C&C Facebook page)

I still have a driveline vibration that's bugging me. The front and rear driveline operating angles are both exactly 2.9* and the overall operating angle is .02*. Even after I was able to get these angles, I still have a vibration at around 2000 rpms, then it goes away until about 4500 rpms. Above 4500 rpms, it's a fairly significant vibration. The engine revs smooth though, in neutral, to the limiter so I'm confident it's not the source.

I took my driveshaft and had the balance checked yesterday- all good. It has new Spicer U-joints. I have sufficient yoke engagement on the trans output shaft. I spoke with Ridetech this morning to see if they had any suggestions and he said with my pinion angles and a good driveshaft, he wasn't sure of where to go next.

Someone mentioned driveline compound angles, which is one thing I haven't checked. The Tremec app measures the angles on a horizontal plane, but I haven't checked them on a vertical plane. At a glance, it "looks" pretty straight. Anyone have any tips on checking compound driveline angles?

Also, I've grabbed the driveshaft right in front of the rear pinion and tried to shake it and there's very little/if any play. I was told when I bought it that the pinion and axle bearings had been replaced. But, I have noticed a very slight pinion seal leak because the bottom of the length of the rear end pumpkin is slightly damp with fluid.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Daniel

[ScotI]

I've been putting some miles on the car. Not as many as I'd like though.

My son and I went to the local Cars and Coffee the other week, which is always fun. (I robbed some photos off the C&C Facebook page)

I still have a driveline vibration that's bugging me. The front and rear driveline operating angles are both exactly 2.9* and the overall operating angle is .02*. Even after I was able to get these angles, I still have a vibration at around 2000 rpms, then it goes away until about 4500 rpms. Above 4500 rpms, it's a fairly significant vibration. The engine revs smooth though, in neutral, to the limiter so I'm confident it's not the source.

I took my driveshaft and had the balance checked yesterday- all good. It has new Spicer U-joints. I have sufficient yoke engagement on the trans output shaft. I spoke with Ridetech this morning to see if they had any suggestions and he said with my pinion angles and a good driveshaft, he wasn't sure of where to go next.

Above, Jack mentioned driveline compound angles, which is one thing I haven't checked. The Tremec app measures the angles on a horizontal plane, but I haven't checked them on a vertical plane. At a glance, it "looks" pretty straight. Anyone have any tips on checking compound driveline angles?

Also, I've grabbed the driveshaft right in front of the rear pinion and tried to shake it and there's very little/if any play. I was told when I bought it that the pinion and axle bearings had been replaced. But, I have noticed a very slight pinion seal leak because the bottom of the length of the rear end pumpkin is slightly damp with fluid.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Daniel

The driveline angle thing gets compounded when the cars get lowered. Standard driveline angles are calc'd & figured w/everything 'sloping' front to rear (motor higher than trans output; trans output higher the rear pinion). The closer these get or in the extreme cases where the pinion is higher than the trans output, a diff approach is required.

I know this from the custom truck scene. Extreme lowered trucks are faced w/this scenario constantly. Many (most?) ignore it or don't drive them enough to be concerned. My plan on my trucks was to use a single driveshaft vs the more common 2pc shafts; dial in angles as good as possible, & then if that didn't work swap in a double cardan style u-joint/CV joint that cancels vibrations within itself. By using the Dbl cardan style joint, you need to dial in the angles close to zero & let the joint do the work.

Check out Andrewb70's stuff. I don't recall where I saw/read the info but I believe when he did the 'rebuild' of his GTO (the L92 swap period) he really focused on solving the vibration issue. He wound up sourcing a driveshaft/joint combo that while expensive.... got the job done. Since I had already been researching options, his info was REALLY good to read as he was using the same approach I have as far as the whole process of elimination.

Hope this info helps.

[WSSix]

Yep, Andrew put a CV joint on the front of the driveshaft. I believe he got it from Driveshaft Shop. I was thinking I needed to go that way as well since my diff is inline if not above my transmission. I'm in the middle of checking something else right now before I go down the path to using one of those driveshafts.

I can't help with your issues. I know it's frustrating as hell. I wish you the best in figuring it out. The car looks great.

[Spiffav8]

Daniel the car looks wicked!! Stoked to see you out driving it and having some fun. The shake down process just just part of the journey.

:captain:

[DWC]

Thanks guys.

This weekend I'm going to take some measurements. I plan to measure runout on the driveshaft, rear axles, and pinion. I'll also try and check the rear end position/alignment if I can figure out a proper way to do it.

Daniel

[DWC]

I took a few runout measurements yesterday evening.

Driveshaft yoke- .002
Front of driveshaft (about 4" behind weld)- .015
Rear of driveshaft (about 4" forward of weld)- .017
Rear end pinion- .001
Driver side rotor (face/lateral)- .003
Driver side rotor (edge/radial)- .005
Driver side wheel lip (lateral)- .030
Passenger side rotor (face/lateral)- .005
Passenger side rotor (edge/radial)- .005
Passenger side wheel lip (lateral)- .025

Anything stand out as alarming?

Daniel

[DWC]

So, through some help from multiple sources, I've narrowed down my vibration to a worn out tailshaft bushing in my Muncie.

I'm trying to replace that bushing with the transmission in the car by using an old Snap On bushing removal tool. Snap On made a few different sizes and I thought I scored the correct one today from a local trans shop. But, I tried it tonight and it's *just* to big to work for my 1.5" bushing.

I've read they show up on Ebay occasionally, so I hope one pops up soon so I don't have to pull the trans to replace a $4 bushing.

Here's the tool I'm looking for in case anyone has any leads. It's Snap On part # S8672D.

Daniel

[DWC]

I "rented" the correct Snap On tool from a guy on a Corvette forum. It took all of 3 minutes to pull the bushing with the correct tool.

I installed the new tail shaft bushing, seal, and new yoke on the driveshaft. Finally, got some dry weather the other day and went for a drive. The vibration is still there... It may be very slightly reduced around the 2000 rpm range, but the 4000+ rpm vibration felt the same.

So...……..I pulled the trans out this morning. It went smoothly.

Here's a short video of the play in the input shaft.

https://youtu.be/cbggep6tDu0

Axial play is .007"
Radial play is .065" (measured about 1/2" from pilot end of shaft)
I'm pretty sure that's not within spec. Any input?

The pilot bushing, throw-out bearing, etc, look normal too me.

**Not sure why the top two photos are 90* off**

Daniel

[DWC]

I measured the bellhousing runout and pilot bushing ID to input shaft pilot "tab" OD and all was within spec. So, nothing abnormal was found with the clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bushing, bellhousing, or clutch fork.

My existing Muncie M21 has had weld repair performed on the mounting ears of the case. So, instead of rebuilding this unit, I'm leaning towards starting completely fresh.

I spoke with the folks at Auto Gear (https://www.autogear.net/motorsports/) and should be ordering a Muncie M20 from them in the next few days.

Here's the specs on their Muncie:

BRAND NEW Auto Gear "Syracuse" four-speed manual shift transmission/gearbox with Auto Gear/Antonio Masiero 'Muncie' M20 gearset (2.52 / 1.88 / 1.46 / 1.00 ratios), ONLY with 10-spline input, 27-spline output, and passenger side speedometer.
Choice of 7 or 8 tooth speedometer drive (typically 7-tooth for 3.55-4.10, 8-tooth for 3.08-3.42s).
It uses the following:
Auto Gear American-made "Supercase"
Auto Gear American-made C355 aluminum midplate
Auto Gear American-made heavy duty tailhousing
Auto Gear American-made, Oilite(tm) Bronze-bushed sidecover
Auto Gear American-made cast STEEL shift forks
Antonio Masiero (Italy) M20 gears (2.52 / 1.88 / 1.46 / 1.00) w/ 1-inch cluster gear
Antonio Masiero (Italy) Auto Gear-designed synchronizer hub & lightweight 27-spline mainshaft (tighter fitting hub-to-mainshaft fit [40-spline press fit and zero lash])
Antonio Masiero (Italy) forged synchronizer sliding clutches
Forged high-silicon bronze synchronizer "blocker" rings
Auto Gear-designed, Antonio Masiero (Italy) produced T10-syle reverse gears (no more chipped up reverse gears!)

Hopefully, this will do the trick...

Daniel

[waynieZ]

Nice!

[F'in mine]

The guys at Autogear are knowledge and helpful when I rebuilt my M20 Muncie for the parts I needed.
Not trying to sway your decision in trans selection but maybe you'd be better off with a TKO600 albeit a few bucks more. Higher 1st gear than the M20 plus with the cam it might be better for you, cruising as well. Plus the 600 bolts up to the stock bellhousing and utilizes the stock Z bar.
Shop builds are nice but kudo's to you on your home build, car's looking really good!

[DWC]

Thanks Wayne.

Simon- Yes, they seemed very knowledgeable.

Trust me, I've spent a lot of time debating Muncie vs TKO600 vs T56, in my head, over the couple of weeks.

T56- didn't want to mod the trans tunnel at this point among the other small changes needed. I've had an BMW E46 330i with a 6 speed and wasn't a huge fan. To be fair, I've never driven a T56 though.

TKO600- thought real hard on this one, but decided against it because of cost, weight, clutch change, etc.

Muncie- ultimately a 4 speed will meet my needs (street and occasional autocross). It will bolt right back in with no changes, same weight, less than half the cost of the TKO or T56 (a trans swap was not in the build budget). The wider M20 gear ratios will be an improvement over the close ratio M21 I had with my 3.42 rear end gear. I will never take this car on a road course, so an overdrive wasn't a "have to have."

Who knows, maybe down the road I'll swap it out for a 5/6 speed. They're never *really* finished right? :confused18:

Thanks for the compliment.

Daniel

[68454RS]

Thanks Wayne.

Simon- Yes, they seemed very knowledgeable.

Trust me, I've spent a lot of time debating Muncie vs TKO600 vs T56, in my head, over the couple of weeks.

T56- didn't want to mod the trans tunnel at this point among the other small changes needed. I've had an BMW E46 330i with a 6 speed and wasn't a huge fan. To be fair, I've never driven a T56 though.

TKO600- thought real hard on this one, but decided against it because of cost, weight, clutch change, etc.

Muncie- ultimately a 4 speed will meet my needs (street and occasional autocross). It will bolt right back in with no changes, same weight, less than half the cost of the TKO or T56 (a trans swap was not in the build budget). The wider M20 gear ratios will be an improvement over the close ratio M21 I had with my 3.42 rear end gear. I will never take this car on a road course, so an overdrive wasn't a "have to have."

Who knows, maybe down the road I'll swap it out for a 5/6 speed. They're never *really* finished right? :confused18:

Thanks for the compliment.

Daniel

Or just add a Gear Vendors OD unit .. That's my plan anyway

[DWC]

I actually did take a look at that. But with the cost of the Gear Vendors unit, I would've rather added a few hundred dollars more to get a TKO600.

Daniel

[DWC]

New goody has arrived. :D

Daniel

[WSSix]

Here's hoping it solves your issues. :thumbsup:

[DWC]

I got the new trans installed the other weekend and went for a drive and...the vibrations are still there. :omg:

I guess we've eliminated one more possibility= the trans. So, it seems the issue is somewhere between the front of the engine and forward of the trans.

I've been reading various vibration threads and I'm wondering if the vibration is a result of a physical imbalance (i.e.- internal rotating assembly out of balance, flywheel counterweight incorrect) or an imbalance related to tuning (i.e.- misfire, incorrect timing, etc)?

Wouldn't a physical imbalance begin to vibrate at a certain RPM and continue to increase in severity through the RPM range?

In an effort to be concise, I'm going throw out some facts from what I know at this point:
-Vibration is not speed related.
-Vibration occurs around 1900-2100 RPM's, then goes away and returns around 4000 plus.
-Vibration decreases when I push the clutch in and engine speed begins to drop.
-Vibration seems load dependent.
-Vibration isn't noticeable/present when engine rev'd in neutral at a standstill.
-Engine seems to have normal water temp, oil PSI, power.
-Engine DOES have run-on/dieseling when I shut off the ignition. Usually around 3 seconds of continued rough idle before finally dying.

Regarding physical imbalance- I ordered a few different flywheel counterweights and was planning on trying to find a counterweight "sweet spot" via trial and error. Someone mentioned that the rotating assembly could have originally been balanced with the flexplate that came with the engine and now that I've installed a flywheel, it could be out of balance.

On a positive note, I did get around to making some valance opening inserts to match my grill...

[slimjim]

great looking front end

[ScotI]

I got the new trans installed the other weekend and went for a drive and...the vibrations are still there. :omg:

I guess we've eliminated one more possibility= the trans. So, it seems the issue is somewhere between the front of the engine and forward of the trans.

I've been reading various vibration threads and I'm wondering if the vibration is a result of a physical imbalance (i.e.- internal rotating assembly out of balance, flywheel counterweight incorrect) or an imbalance related to tuning (i.e.- misfire, incorrect timing, etc)?

Wouldn't a physical imbalance begin to vibrate at a certain RPM and continue to increase in severity through the RPM range?

In an effort to be concise, I'm going throw out some facts from what I know at this point:
-Vibration is not speed related.
-Vibration occurs around 1900-2100 RPM's, then goes away and returns around 4000 plus.
-Vibration decreases when I push the clutch in and engine speed begins to drop.
-Vibration seems load dependent.
-Vibration isn't noticeable/present when engine rev'd in neutral at a standstill.
-Engine seems to have normal water temp, oil PSI, power.
-Engine DOES have run-on/dieseling when I shut off the ignition. Usually around 3 seconds of continued rough idle before finally dying.

Regarding physical imbalance- I ordered a few different flywheel counterweights and was planning on trying to find a counterweight "sweet spot" via trial and error. Someone mentioned that the rotating assembly could have originally been balanced with the flexplate that came with the engine and now that I've installed a flywheel, it could be out of balance.

On a positive note, I did get around to making some valance opening inserts to match my grill...

What fuel/octane are you running?
Any other vitals for the motor (deck height, head gasket used, piston dome/dish volume)?

[CamaroAJ]

I've been reading various vibration threads and I'm wondering if the vibration is a result of a physical imbalance (i.e.- internal rotating assembly out of balance, flywheel counterweight incorrect) or an imbalance related to tuning (i.e.- misfire, incorrect timing, etc)?

Wouldn't a physical imbalance begin to vibrate at a certain RPM and continue to increase in severity through the RPM range? Not always. I regularly see an engine with a hard miss at idle and when you rev it up it will start to go away. Not because its no longer misfiring, but because the speed the crank is moving makes it become less noticeable that that cylinder isn't producing power

In an effort to be concise, I'm going throw out some facts from what I know at this point:
-Engine DOES have run-on/dieseling when I shut off the ignition. Usually around 3 seconds of continued rough idle before finally dying.


Seems you might have answered your own question. I also added to part of it about vibration getting worse.

Also since you've eliminated the drive line from the problem lets take a look at other rotating parts that I've seen cause vibration. The balancer, easy to check by setting cylinder 1 at TDC and seeing if the timing mark lines up with zero on the timing tab. Balancers have been known to slip and will cause the type of vibration you're having. Ironically your timing might be "correct" with the timing light, but if your balancer slipped its off in the engine causing your dieseling.

The accessory drive is another one. If you're using a cheap drive that things can flex around that can also cause a vibration. Free reving an engine doesn't always work, sometimes it needs a load on it like when driving. Misfires are the most common that need a load to show up. At this point I would get your timing corrected and go from there. If you have a GoPro you should mount it under the hood so you can watch the engine and see what its doing when the vibration happens.

[DWC]

Thanks slimjim.

ScotI- I'm running 93 octane. Unfortunately, I don't have all those specs. The engine compression is around 9.5-1 from what I understand.

CamaroAJ- Thanks for the input.

I replaced the original external balanced balancer with a brand new unit the end of last year. I verified TDC and the crank snout and key way looked fine before I installed the new balancer.

I am running a lower end front accessory kit, but I ran/revved the engine with the serpentine belt off and there was no change. BUT, I haven't driven the car/applied load while the belt was off. I might try to get my hands on a Go Pro and see what I see.

Daniel

[ScotI]

Drop the original motor back in & see what happens.

The wrong combo on the 383 could be causing both the vibrations & run-on if things weren't done properly. Swapping a different power-plant definitely narrows the scope of things.

[DWC]

ScotI- unfortunately, I don't have the original motor.

Well, I've tried a couple different flywheel weights recently with no luck. The original 156 gram counterweight seems to be the best and the other weights (heavier & lighter) caused the vibration to increase.

So, at this point, I'll just cruise around until winter. Doesn't look like I'll miss many/any autocrosses this summer with COVID hanging around. Then, I plan to pull the engine and have an internally balanced rotating assembly installed. As long as I keep the rpm's under 4000, the vibration is not that bad. I put about 40 miles on it yesterday cruising back roads.

I still have a few small details to finish (AC charge, alignment tweak, etc) but overall, the car is "complete."

I'll post a few gratuitous photos for grins.

Daniel

[DWC]

Couple more photos

[colorado80439]

Beautiful build, clean and smooth, love the color. The fire extinguisher may be a little difficult to get to if you ever need it, lol. Good luck with that vibration

[jmac]

Nice clean car. Love the grille. Great job!

[ADY]

Nice to see a similar '68. I went through several rounds trying to figure out vibration, and for me it came down to driveline angles. Even with a Speedtech tunnel cover I can't get the T56 high enough to get rid of a minor vibration. Glad you'll be able to enjoy it this summer.

[WSSix]

Very clean! Love the work you did on the car. Enjoy driving this summer.

[SSLance]

It really sucks that such a beautifully finished car is giving you fits like this. Vibrations are so subjective, it would really help if you had a video of the vibration taking place, and from different angles (especially the underhood one). They can be great diagnosing tool.

My 383 always had a vibration I couldn't get rid off under a high load, low RPM situation, like 16-1800 RPM in 6th gear on the highway. Once I put the Holley Fuel injection on it, we figured out it was a miss (more like a shudder, not a hard miss) and we tuned about 90% of it out by fiddling with the timing and fuel in that area on the map.

There seems to be something about the stroker engines that enhance that type of harmonic and send it thru the whole car.

My builder putting my engine back together this time demanded that I bring him the pressure plate so he can balance the crank with the clutch assembly attached. He says if the clutch is out of balance you will definitely feel it. I'm interested to see how that turns out this go around as well.

Meanwhile, go enjoy your car... It's a beaut!!

[F'in mine]

[QUOTE=DWC;702651]I got the new trans installed the other weekend and went for a drive and...the vibrations are still there. :omg:

I guess we've eliminated one more possibility= the trans. So, it seems the issue is somewhere between the front of the engine and forward of the trans.

I've been reading various vibration threads and I'm wondering if the vibration is a result of a physical imbalance (i.e.- internal rotating assembly out of balance, flywheel counterweight incorrect) or an imbalance related to tuning (i.e.- misfire, incorrect timing, etc)?

Wouldn't a physical imbalance begin to vibrate at a certain RPM and continue to increase in severity through the RPM range?

In an effort to be concise, I'm going throw out some facts from what I know at this point:
-Vibration is not speed related.
-Vibration occurs around 1900-2100 RPM's, then goes away and returns around 4000 plus.
-Vibration decreases when I push the clutch in and engine speed begins to drop.
-Vibration seems load dependent.
-Vibration isn't noticeable/present when engine rev'd in neutral at a standstill.
-Engine seems to have normal water temp, oil PSI, power.
-Engine DOES have run-on/dieseling when I shut off the ignition. Usually around 3 seconds of continued rough idle before finally dying.

Regarding physical imbalance- I ordered a few different flywheel counterweights and was planning on trying to find a counterweight "sweet spot" via trial and error. Someone mentioned that the rotating assembly could have originally been balanced with the flexplate that came with the engine and now that I've installed a flywheel, it could be out of balance.



Just throwing out some suggestions so don't take this as offense to you. What type of stroker do you have? 2 pcs. rear main seal or 1 pce. seal, one is internal balance the other is external balance. Could you possibly have the the wrong type of harmonic balancer.
How about the frame mounts.
http://www.pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm
Could the flywheel or clutch assembly be out of balance?
Wrong throw-out bearing? There are a few different heights available.
Adjustment of the clutch pedal play & engagement?
Reciprocating assembly needs to be re-balanced, sorry its a possibly.
For the run on....try running a pvc system on the drivers side and a passenger side to air cleaner hose?
This one might be bull$#!t to do but how about running the distributor without the ignition box. I have a billet distributor on my SBC without a box and it runs great compared to the old points.
If its any consolation your car is looking too nice to be giving you trouble.

[DWC]

Thank everyone, I appreciate the compliments.

F'in mine-
No offense taken. I welcome any ideas to help troubleshoot.
I have a 2 pc rear main.
I installed a brand new externally balanced harmonic balancer the end of last year while troubleshooting. No change in vibration.
I verified the motor mounts are correct a few months ago.
The engine came with a flexplate and I installed a new flywheel. Both external balance. I think the flywheel/clutch could be the culprit.
The thow-out bearing came with the McCleod clutch and it's spec'd for my combo.
Clutch pedal/adjustment was verified when I installed the new trans.
Reciprocating assembly needs to be re-balanced- I think this is it. I think the original rotating assembly was balanced with the flexplate and the new flywheel/clutch is not quite balanced to match. I plan to pull the engine in the winter and have a shop install a new, internally balanced, rotating assembly.
Thanks for the run-on tips and the compliment!

Daniel

[Musclerodz]

Any possibility that the vibration might be detonation?

[DWC]

Mike- I suppose it could be. Any tips on how I can rule that out? Here's a quick rundown on what I'm running.

93 octane gas
14.25 AFR at idle
15*/36* timing
180* thermostat (avg 190* driving)
13hg vacuum at 1500rpm
Aluminum radiator
New Holley 4779 carb (750 DP)
New MSD Street Fire ignition
New MSD billet distributor 85551
New MSD Blaster SS coil
New Taylor plug wires
New spark plugs
Aluminum heads- 64cc/210cc
TDC and firing order verified multiple times
Dynamic compression ratio is estimated to be about 9.5:1

Thanks,

Daniel

[F'in mine]

Daniel, you mentioned its a 2 pcs. rear main seal, if its a aftermarket crank then its probably internally balanced. It could have a 400 crank with spacer bearings for external balance.
Any chance you might know this or could ask from whoever you got the engine from about the internals. Do you have a pic of the crank flange?
As inexpensive 60 buck option to try an internal balancer?

Do you know the cam specs and what are the plugs like?

[DWC]

Simon- It had an external balancer and flexplate on it when I bought it. I was able to watch it run, on a stand, before I bought it. Only thing I changed from it running on the stand was an external balance flywheel. I've since installed a new external balancer during my troubleshooting as well.

This is the best picture I have of the crank flange. The crank flange is cast with a counterweight on it.

Here is my cam:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-60105

Here are the #3 and #4 cylinder plugs from last week. BUT, this was just after having the engine warm up at idle. I haven't done a proper shut down after WOT plug reading.

Daniel

[F'in mine]

Daniel, just throwing out all possibilities. If you're able to check with the guys you bought the engine from, try to see if you can find out the specific crank they used. I realize it had external components but just in case the wrong parts went on.
You purchased a new flywheel, is it the one with the weight pad that's bolted on? I realize this is a alot of bs but maybe take the weight off and see what happens.

The plugs look okay, the cam specs seem to be a bit high for the compression you're running. I'm wondering if that has an effect on the run cause Lunati says it requires a minimum of 10.5 compression.

[DWC]

Simon- I appreciate ANY ideas, really. At this point, I've resigned myself to pulling the engine this winter. So, I don't mind chasing any possibilities up until that point.

After I bought the engine, I removed the oil pan to verify it was a 383 stroker and see what the cylinders looked like, etc. I've attached the photos I took while the pan was off (sorry for the low quality). The number cast into the crank counterweight is hard to read. After a lot of research time online, I *believe* the crank is made by CAT (Cal Auto Transpeed). A lower quality, chinese import, that subsequently is out of business from what I can tell.

The guy I bought it from said PAR Racing in Spartanburg, SC assembled the engine for him. I'm waiting for a return phone call from them.

Yes, the flywheel I bought has removable weights. I've tried running without a weight and it was clearly not happy. I've also tried different amounts of weight trying to "sneak up" on the correct balance, but no luck.

As to the compression ratio, I used online calculators and the specs I was told to calculate the ratio. With that cam's overlap, the dynamic ratio estimate was about 9.5:1, with the static ratio about 10.5:1.

[ScotI]

Simon- I appreciate ANY ideas, really. At this point, I've resigned myself to pulling the engine this winter. So, I don't mind chasing any possibilities up until that point.

After I bought the engine, I removed the oil pan to verify it was a 383 stroker and see what the cylinders looked like, etc. I've attached the photos I took while the pan was off (sorry for the low quality). The number cast into the crank counterweight is hard to read. After a lot of research time online, I *believe* the crank is made by CAT (Cal Auto Transpeed). A lower quality, chinese import, that subsequently is out of business from what I can tell.

The guy I bought it from said PAR Racing in Spartanburg, SC assembled the engine for him. I'm waiting for a return phone call from them.

Yes, the flywheel I bought has removable weights. I've tried running without a weight and it was clearly not happy. I've also tried different amounts of weight trying to "sneak up" on the correct balance, but no luck.

As to the compression ratio, I used online calculators and the specs I was told to calculate the ratio. With that cam's overlap, the dynamic ratio estimate was about 9.5:1, with the static ratio about 10.5:1.


Here are the details-
383 stroker engine I purchased in person and we ran it on an engine stand to verify it ran good and all looked/sounded fine
Aluminum 64cc heads
Lunati hydraulic flat tappet cam- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-60105
Hyper pistons
5.7" rods
Aluminum roller rockers
Edlebrock Performer 2701 intake manifold (new)
Windage tray
7 qt oil pan
Full length headers
Summit Racing external balanced harmonic balancer (called Summit to verify this)
Energy Suspension poly motor and trans mounts (new)
93 octane fuel

The calcs I used indicated 10.51:1 static/8.67:1 dynamic @ .020 deck height (or 10.89:1/8.98 w/a .005 deck) using typical generic 383 numbers & that Lunati cam. Seeing your cranking compression >200psi would suggest your in the ball park. I've been advised exceeding the 200# number on pump gas is pushing things & for worry free operation things needed to be optimized for every different combo.

Have you tried just backing off the timing to see what happens w/the 'run-on' scenario?

[Musclerodz]

Simon- It had an external balancer and flexplate on it when I bought it. I was able to watch it run, on a stand, before I bought it. Only thing I changed from it running on the stand was an external balance flywheel. I've since installed a new external balancer during my troubleshooting as well.

This is the best picture I have of the crank flange. The crank flange is cast with a counterweight on it.

Here is my cam:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-60105

Here are the #3 and #4 cylinder plugs from last week. BUT, this was just after having the engine warm up at idle. I haven't done a proper shut down after WOT plug reading.

Danielthat plug does not look happy. have you verified which advance springs are installed? Are you using a non-digital timing light to time it?

[DWC]

ScotI- No, I haven’t had the timing lower than 36* total. I’ll decrease it 1 or 2 degrees and see what i get.

Mike- the 21* bushing is in it. I’m using a basic, non-digital, Craftsman timing light.

Daniel

[DWC]

I backed the timing down to 13*/34* and went for a short drive this weekend. The vibration did not change at all, still there.

Interestingly, the engine run-on still occurred as well. It *may* have been a bit less run-on then previously, but not a significant change.

Daniel

[ScotI]

I backed the timing down to 13*/34* and went for a short drive this weekend. The vibration did not change at all, still there.

Interestingly, the engine run-on still occurred as well. It *may* have been a bit less run-on then previously, but not a significant change.

Daniel

Try 32° total. This would be strictly for the run-on issue as I think there is something different causing your vibration.

If still experiencing run-on @ 32°, I would seek out some higher octane rated gas & utilize it to eliminate octane as a possible cause.

[Beechy]

Daniel......which spark plug part number are u using?
Do you know if they are the right heat range?
Do you know how far they protrude into the combustion chamber?
Plugs are available in regular reach as well as long-reach.....maybe u have the long version. Look up plug manufacturer charts and cross-reference charts.
Call up the head manufacturer to get plug recommendation.
Try side-gapped plugs to minimize protrusion into chamber. Too much protrusion will create a hot spot because the ground electrode stays too hot and promotes "dieselling" which is also pinging. Auminum heads would draw enough heat from the plugs as not to be an issue if heat range is correct but not if protrusion is too much.
Colder heat range plugs are fatter in the center electrode thereby conducting heat back into coolant more quickly.

http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/techinfo/qa/q13/index.html

As ScottI says, octane rating is critical. Octane booster is available as a concentrated additive. Try a half tank full.

13* static sounds way high to me. 10*_32* should take you out of the twilight zone......again ask the head manufacturer.

[DWC]

I'll reduce the timing to 32* and see what happens. Then try octane booster if needed.

The plugs are NGK BKR5E, per NGK's tech support that I spoke with.

I've also tried NGK BKR7E and Autolite 3922 plugs.

Not sure if I'll be able to wait until winter to pull the engine for a new rotating assembly...I'm getting antsy.

Daniel

[eville]

Who's heads are on the engine?

[DWC]

Aluminum Chinese imports that have had some port work done. Pro Comp PC3003 (210cc, 64cc)

I had a long conversation with a machine shop (who is old friends with a buddy of mine and they have a great reputation) this afternoon about my engine and having them install an internal balanced rotating assembly. He thought it was interesting that the vibration is hardly noticeable when the engine is revved in neutral, at a standstill. He said anything is possible, but the out of balance engines he's dealt with in the past were noticeable both loaded and unloaded.

He suggested to revisit my driveshaft before pulling the engine. I've had the shaft balanced/checked twice by a reputable local shop and it's "within spec". But, he said has experienced "good" driveshafts on the bench, that present with strange harmonics/vibration on the car.

I'm going to see if I can borrow someone's (known good) Camaro driveshaft to try in my car.

Trying to exhaust all possibilities before pulling the engine...

Daniel

[Musclerodz]

Aluminum Chinese imports that have had some port work done. Pro Comp PC3003 (210cc, 64cc)

I had a long conversation with a machine shop (who is old friends with a buddy of mine and they have a great reputation) this afternoon about my engine and having them install an internal balanced rotating assembly. He thought it was interesting that the vibration is hardly noticeable when the engine is revved in neutral, at a standstill. He said anything is possible, but the out of balance engines he's dealt with in the past were noticeable both loaded and unloaded.

He suggested to revisit my driveshaft before pulling the engine. I've had the shaft balanced/checked twice by a reputable local shop and it's "within spec". But, he said has experienced "good" driveshafts on the bench, that present with strange harmonics/vibration on the car.

I'm going to see if I can borrow someone's (known good) Camaro driveshaft to try in my car.

Trying to exhaust all possibilities before pulling the engine...

Danieldriveshaft does not relate to engine rpm as you have mentioned in the past when the vibration occurs. If it was the driveshaft then it would show up at the same mph every time.

[DWC]

I’ve been fighting this vibration so long, I think it is driving me crazy and my recollection is getting foggy. :confused18:

In my mind, I’ve been recalling that the vibration is much less noticeable at idle. So, I just went outside and warmed up the car and slowly raise the idle up to 2000 and there is definitely a noticeable vibration. Maybe not quite as much as when it’s under load, but it is definitely there.

I’ve been trying to take notes along the way as I’ve been troubleshooting, but this seems like a key piece of the puzzle that I’ve been recalling incorrectly. I’m just getting old I guess. :lostmarbles:

Mike- yes, you’re right, thanks for keeping me on track.

Daniel

[eville]

I’ve been fighting this vibration so long, I think it is driving me crazy and my recollection is getting foggy. :confused18:

In my mind, I’ve been recalling that the vibration is much less noticeable at idle. So, I just went outside and warmed up the car and slowly raise the idle up to 2000 and there is definitely a noticeable vibration. Maybe not quite as much as when it’s under load, but it is definitely there.

I’ve been trying to take notes along the way as I’ve been troubleshooting, but this seems like a key piece of the puzzle that I’ve been recalling incorrectly. I’m just getting old I guess. :lostmarbles:

Mike- yes, you’re right, thanks for keeping me on track.

Daniel

I went back and scanned some of the posts. I don't see where you've confirmed 100% your timing.

Do this with a piston stop, or at a minimum, pull your balancer bolt and check the orientation of your keyway with your timing mark. I needed to confirm TDC on my car recently. Here's mine and it was correct:

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2020/05/06/A52A9BC4-62CA-403A-BEE0-BCE306E90351.jpg

https://i.hmjimg.com/images/2020/05/06/B90DCB45-DEC1-40DF-965E-BCE7722AD703.jpg

[colorado80439]

A couple of things to consider, if you hadn't yet, add weight to the crank pulley or dampner. Maybe a heavy putty, to look for change. I haven't see a pick of your front runner system, but if you can run it without a belt and try to eliminate accessories.
Best!

[F'in mine]

I've tried to locate CAT, the crankshaft manufacture that's in your engine and the only thing I could come up with is this company on Ebay. Looks like they work out of Corona, California selling a variety of internal engine parts. Maybe just a depot for distributing stuff from overseas?
https://www.ebay.com/usr/catracingproducts

If you scroll down a bit on the link they are following a company called Perfect Crank.

I know its a long shot but maybe send a message and see if either one of these companies can give any sort of info on your crankshaft. Worth a try?

[DWC]

Thanks for the responses.

I verified TDC with a piston stop a few months back (must have forgotten to mention that in my posts). I check/verified the crank keyway was good when I installed the new balancer over the winter.

I've also run it with the serpentine belt removed with no change in vibration.

I'm leaning towards just sucking it up and having another 383 built by a local shop. That way I'll have known engine specs/parts and local support if needed.

Live and learn...

Daniel

[eville]

Thanks for the responses.

I verified TDC with a piston stop a few months back (must have forgotten to mention that in my posts). I check/verified the crank keyway was good when I installed the new balancer over the winter.

I've also run it with the serpentine belt removed with no change in vibration.

I'm leaning towards just sucking it up and having another 383 built by a local shop. That way I'll have known engine specs/parts and local support if needed.

Live and learn...

Daniel

I'd tear into the motor. I bet that crank is jacked up somehow or the timing chain is a tooth off maybe?

[CamaroAJ]

I haven't gone all the way back, but have you done a compression test on all cylinders and then a running compression test?

Since you took the belt off that eliminates the of the engine, have you taken the trans and clutch off to see if its still there?

[Musclerodz]

I would verify cam timing before I pulled the engine. Put a degree wheel on it and check it.

[eville]

I haven't gone all the way back, but have you done a compression test on all cylinders and then a running compression test?

Since you took the belt off that eliminates the of the engine, have you taken the trans and clutch off to see if its still there?

It's more than a vibration, it's the run on that's the bigger issue.

[CamaroAJ]

It's more than a vibration, it's the run on that's the bigger issue.

I’m aware, I think it might be a timing issue, but could be caused by the jetting in the carb. What I was wondering was if he has a weak cylinder that could be causing the vibration.


OP, I know this is going to sound off the wall, but do you have another carb you could swap and see how it runs?

[DWC]

I've done a compression test-
1- 215
3- 215
5- 210
7- 215
2- 215
4- 215
6- 205
8- 210

I've actually never heard of a running compression test.

I just replaced my original Muncie M21 with a brand new Autogear M20. I have not had the clutch off, but I feel that's the root of my problem. The rotating assembly was originally balanced with a flex plate. I also got to see, in person, the engine running/revving on a stand before I bought it and it ran normal with the flexplate at that time. I removed that and installed a new flywheel and McCleod clutch, which in theory, should be plug and play since everything is externally balanced. But, I think that is not my case.

I originally had a Holley 830cfm carb and replaced it with a new Holley 750cfm over the winter.

Frankly, I've reached my limit with the unknowns of this engine. I don't know the exact piston spec or the exact compression ratio, etc. I'm ready for a known engine so I can enjoy the car.

This whole deal has been beneficial though because I've learn so much from everyone's help and the troubleshooting research I've done. :thankyou:

Daniel

[eville]

Well if it ran good before and all you changed was the flywheel and pressure plate I’d pull that off and have it balanced. Good time to run it without the flywheel too. Was it a McLeod flywheel?

It would suck to build a new engine and find out you still have a problem.

[DWC]

It's a PRW flywheel. I spoke with PRW and McCleod and they both said the flywheel and clutch I have should be compatible with each other in terms of balance.

I considered having only the pressure plate and flywheel balanced, but from what I understand, you have to balance the whole assembly for an accurate result- balancer, crank, rods, pistons, flywheel, and pressure plate.

I'm not sure how I'd start the engine without the flywheel.

Daniel

[CamaroAJ]

Static compression numbers look good. I ask about a running compression test because I've seen lifters collapse when running a few times and you'll have 7 good cylinders and then one real weak one.

Did this start before the carb swap or after?

Do you have the flex plate that you saw the engine run with? Or just any flex plate for that matter? I'm wondering if the flywheel being a lot heavier then the flex plate is making the vibration worse and its actually been there the whole time, you just couldn't notice when on the stand.

[DWC]

The vibration was there before the carb swap.

Unfortunately, I sold that flexplate last year and don't have another one. You could very well be right with the heavier flywheel exaggerating a vibration that's always been there.

Daniel

[F'in mine]

You mentioned using a PRW flywheel, which one did you end up using?
https://store.prw-usa.com/products/flywheels/chevy-gm/?sort=featured&page=1

[DWC]

I used their part number 1640081. I've spoken at length with Shaun, one of the tech's at PRW, and he confirmed early on that the actual flywheel I received is correct for my application.

Daniel

[F'in mine]

I could be wrong but this is my guess regarding the vibration. The flywheel you have is for a 1970-80 383/400 ci. in. stroker engine that's externally balanced, providing your internal crank is from the 400 engine with spacer bearings to acheive your stroker combo which I don't think you have. The 400's rods are smaller in center to center distance @ 5.565" & pistons have a 4.125" bore therefore the crank is balanced accordingly.
Your stroker could have aftermarket rods 5.7" or 6.0" with 4.000" bore pistons x 3.75" stoke as well.
Most stroker aftermarket 2 pce. rear seal cranks are internally balance but they do make an externally balanced one.

Here's an option before you dig into the internals. Get a flywheel & balancer that's internally balanced and see if it ails your vibration issue. I realize its quite a bit of work and you have to decide whether you want a billet flywheel and good balancer or the inexpensive stuff to try? I say get the cheap 150.00 stuff first to try it out. Down the road when you decide to balance the reciprocating assembly splurge then.

[DWC]

I ended up pulling my engine in late May. Most summer events were cancelled and I didn't have any good reason to wait until this winter.

I decided to go with a local machine shop/engine builder to have another 383 built from the ground up. The new engine will have a roller cam/lifters, forged crank, forged pistons and will be internally balanced.

The builder sent me a few photos. Hopefully, assembly will start later this week.

Daniel

[ScotI]

I ended up pulling my engine in late May. Most summer events were cancelled and I didn't have any good reason to wait until this winter.

I decided to go with a local machine shop/engine builder to have another 383 built from the ground up. The new engine will have a roller cam/lifters, forged crank, forged pistons and will be internally balanced.

The builder sent me a few photos. Hopefully, assembly will start later this week.

Daniel

Did you seek an answer to the original problem so you would @ least put it to bed? Just curious if the machine shop noticed anything odd.

[DWC]

ScotI- This new engine is using a different, seasoned, block.

I sold the old 383 to a guy who was going to balance it with his flexplate and put it in a K5 Blazer with an automatic.

The final consensus was the old engine's rotating assembly was balanced with a flexplate when built and my "off the shelf" flywheel was "off" balance enough to cause the vibration.

Daniel

[ScotI]

ScotI- This new engine is using a different, seasoned, block.

I sold the old 383 to a guy who was going to balance it with his flexplate and put it in a K5 Blazer with an automatic.

The final consensus was the old engine's rotating assembly was balanced with a flexplate when built and my "off the shelf" flywheel was "off" balance enough to cause the vibration.

Daniel

Got-cha. Seems very possible.

[SSLance]

I could tell right away on my very first drive with my new 383 that the balance was MUCH improved. On mine, the crank with the flywheel was 15 grams out of balance and with the pressure plate bolted on was 38 grams out of balance.

Having it zero balanced with the pressure plate on made a VERY noticeable improvement, not only does it accelerate smoother but faster as well since it isn't fighting itself.

I had other people tell me before that it had a strange vibration feel to it but I never really noticed it. I just thought that was how 383s felt. Now I know.

Good luck with the new build.

[ScotI]

I could tell right away on my very first drive with my new 383 that the balance was MUCH improved. On mine, the crank with the flywheel was 15 grams out of balance and with the pressure plate bolted on was 38 grams out of balance.

Having it zero balanced with the pressure plate on made a VERY noticeable improvement, not only does it accelerate smoother but faster as well since it isn't fighting itself.

I had other people tell me before that it had a strange vibration feel to it but I never really noticed it. I just thought that was how 383s felt. Now I know.

Good luck with the new build.
Interesting & noted for future reference.

[WSSix]

Hope this engine runs great for you, Daniel. I love my 383.

[DWC]

Slowly but surely...

Daniel

[Spiffav8]

Slowly but surely...

Daniel

Now that's a sexy post!!

[camcojb]

Engine porn... :thankyou:

[DWC]

Hopefully, my existing headers will work these angled plug heads.

Daniel

[DWC]

My current headers are 1 5/8” cheap Summit pieces. I’ve started looking around for a set of budget full length headers that work with angle plugs, but a lot of times it’s not specified in the listing.

Does anyone know of a set that definitely work with angle plugs?

Daniel

[SSLance]

Is it just angled plugs you are concerned about or do those heads have raised exhaust ports as well?

My hooker 2466 were for stock height ports but we modified them to work with the raised port heads by elongating the mounting holes. They are "okay" with my angled plugs but you really have to be careful with gasket selection to make sure they seal up.

[DWC]

Lance- they’re not raised port heads. My current headers just lack the room on about 4 of the cylinders. I’ll be cooking boots constantly and may not even be able to get a spark plug boot on 1 plug. I may just bring out the BFH and massage them. I’m just not sure if I can gain enough clearance before trashing the headers.

Daniel

[SSLance]

While I pretty much hate all headers on a street car, these Hookers are about as least hateful as I have been around. If you do decide to change and they fit your application, they are worth a look.

[DWC]

Thanks for the suggestion Lance.

I beat the crap out of my headers today and gained some decent clearance. The #3 runner needed the most by far. Hopefully, it’ll be enough to keep the plug boots from constantly melting.

I also measured the bellhousing runout and it came in less than 2 thousandths. So, should be good there.

Daniel

[DWC]

My brother and I got the engine/trans installed yesterday. I'll start bolting on the accessories soon and hope to start it up in a week or so.

Daniel

[camcojb]

Nice!!

[ADY]

Thanks for the suggestion Lance.

I beat the crap out of my headers today and gained some decent clearance. The #3 runner needed the most by far. Hopefully, it’ll be enough to keep the plug boots from constantly melting.

I also measured the bellhousing runout and it came in less than 2 thousandths. So, should be good there.

Daniel

Similar issue on my 383 w/ Hedman mid-length headers and AFR heads, had to cut and grind a socket just to be able to remove one of the plugs. Even with fiberglass thermal sleeves around the boot had a couple melt. Also had access issues torquing a couple of the header bolts and found Remflex (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rfl-2086) headers gaskets as the only way to stop exhaust leaks. PS: Looks super clean.

[DWC]

Went to start the engine on Saturday and had to shim the starter a bit so the pinion would engage the flywheel. After that, it started on the first crank. :D

Oil pressure was good (about 65 psi cold), but I must've had an air pocket at the intake by the thermostat and water temp sender, because my fan didn't come on and I shut it down due to the temperature rising. There was also a coolant leak at the POS swivel water neck. I've tried vaseline on the O-ring, RTV, and flat sanding the mating surface, still leaks.

I ordered a different water neck that should be in today. Hope to get the timing, idle, and carb tuned and go for a drive soon.

Daniel

[WSSix]

Good job! Glad to hear you're so close.

[SSLance]

I always drill a 1/8" hole in thermostat flange to help bleed air out of system. Works like a champ.

Keep up the good work, cant wait to see how you like the first drive.

[DWC]

Thanks guys!

Lance- I did drill a 1/8" hole in the Stant t-stat when I installed the new water neck setup. Seem to do the trick.

I've noticed that with my water temp sender now in the head that my gauge reads about 15-20* higher than when the sender was in the intake. I haven't had any coolant spew out of the radiator, so I don't think the engine's actually too hot. Is that a common temp differential between head and intake placement?

Also, my timing was too advanced initially (fixed last night) and I believe my carb is too rich at this point. Both of which could possibly contribute to higher temp readings as well. I'm going to hook up my AFR gauge this evening and get that sorted.

Daniel

[DWC]

Just a data point- the water temp sensor in the head was actually reading about 20-30* higher than in the intake.

So, I decided to move that temp sensor to a port on the Vintage Air water neck riser I just got. Now the water temp gauge reads in a "normal" range.

Ready for the first drive this weekend. :)

Daniel

[214Chevy]

Good deal!! Nothing like that first drive...

[DWC]

Replaced the crap water neck I had, tightened up some coolant clamps, adjusted the carb and went for a first drive yesterday.

Smoooooooooth...amazing how smooth an engine is when balanced within a gram. :D

Daniel

[SSLance]

It's crazy isn't it! Congrats...

[WSSix]

Glad to hear there are no vibration issues. How's the power band?

[DWC]

Thanks guys. I've only done a short drive mainly checking for leaks.

We set it up for low end torque better suited for autocross. Using a dual plane (Performer RPM) intake and Comp Cam XR282HR.

https://www.compcams.com/xr282hr

Next drive I plan to lean on it and see how it does. :)

Daniel

[waynieZ]

Glad to hear you got it out for a drive.

[DWC]

I decided to add a grill emblem. I started with a 2010-2015 Camaro emblem and decided to make a "flowtie" https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a7239/chevrolet-z-28-flowtie/ :D

The center section was cut out, then studs were epoxied to the backside for mounting. I think it turned out alright.

Daniel

[DWC]

I've been putting some miles on the new engine and it's been doing fine overall. I have found an issue with power steering fluid leaking from the reservoir cap vent. After a 20 mile drive, the top of the cap will have PS fluid all over it with enough to run down the sides of the reservoir.

I'm using a new GM type II pump and a new Borgeson steering box with Royal Purple Max EZ fluid. It's tight quarters on the driver's side of the engine. I've wrapped the header tubes in that area and the PS lines have DEI fire sleeve on the them in that area as well. The PS lines come out of the steering box, then snake down next to the headers and around the driver's side engine mount, then back up to the PS pump.

I installed a fitting and tube in the cap this weekend to let the fluid drain to the ground. Not a fix, but kept the fluid from covering the reservoir.

I'm guessing my PS fluid's getting too hot and expanding out the cap vent. Any ideas on a fix for this? My guess is a PS cooler is in my future.

Daniel

[Spiffav8]

Man that's a clean looking car. Glad to see you're out driving and having fun with it. The shake down process can be an adventure!!

:captain:

[DWC]

Thanks Curtis, but not as clean as yours! Yes, I'd much rather chase power steering gremlins than engine vibrations any day.

Daniel

[214Chevy]

Daniel, the emblem gives the grill a whole nother flare. Turned out very nice and looks way too cool.

[F'in mine]

Glad to hear you got your engine/vibration issues all worked out and that new engine is purring nicely.
Not totally sure this will help with your PS dilemma but maybe some worth a try.

I use GM fluid # 19329449 on my Delphi 600 box with no problems but I use a Saginaw pump.

Found this online:
https://itstillruns.com/causes-power-steering-overflow-6038804.html

Maybe air in the PS system and needs to be bled?
Pressure on your pump needs to be reduced?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQuNkSDSNCs
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/brg-899001
Re-routing PS lines?

[DWC]

Thanks 214Chevy.

Thanks for the links Simon.

Last night, I re-routed the return line up and over the fender liner with no issue. I started to re-route the pressure line, but it's not as flexible as the return and I need to have another 14" section of hose made to make it work. Hope to get that made today.

If the re-routing doesn't work, I'll move onto some of the other suggestions.

Daniel

[WSSix]

Reroute the lines and add a cooler. I'd make hard lines that come down from the steering box and hug the up right under the upper control arms. You can then go flex from there to the reservoir and pump. You can use banjo fittings at the steering box to keep the hard lines tight to the box. The hard part will be bending the thick wall steel tubing and finding someone to weld all the fittings onto the tubes.

This is how I did the tubing on my TA. My pump and reservoir are on the passenger side of the car.

[DWC]

Thanks for the input Trey.

I got a new section of hose made yesterday and rerouted the lines onto the fender liner last night. I'm going to put some miles on this configuration and see how it goes.

Daniel