Anyone going over 200 mph???

[nitrorocket]

Just curious if you guys go 200+ mph in a '71 Chevelle. I want to do some road racing type stuff. I am thinking about changing the trans or gearing to do this but am wondering if anyone has any pointers. I might have to swap to a 6 speed unfortunatly, :( but I guess that comes with the turf.
My concerns are wheel bearing possibly failing due to the speed they will be turning and possible lift issues. It will just be for the quick occasional blst and will most likey not be a sustained speed for too long.

What do you guys do??

[MarkM66]

If you have a wife and kids, first thing you should do a get a good life insurance policy, ;) .

I'd check the rules on what is required to run 200 at such and event, build the car to those safety specs, then worry about power/tranny/gears.

[nitrorocket]

I do 150+ on a pretty regular basis and have had 0 issues so far.

As far as safety, It is just more of a daily driver type street car that I go to shows in, but I like to play around. That would really suck If I needed safety equipment.... I never thought of that! :(

[Streetking]

I do 150+ on a pretty regular basis and have had 0 issues so far.

As far as safety, It is just more of a daily driver type street car that I go to shows in, but I like to play around. That would really suck If I needed safety equipment.... I never thought of that! :(

I have run over 200 at Silver State many years ago. There is a huge difference between going 150 to going 200. Everything changes especially in the aerodynamics , suspension dampening ect. On a heavy car like yours, don't skimp on ANY suspension peices at all. Remember even if you replace all the "wear" items with new stuff, it's still old technology and was never ment to go those speeds. Safety equipment is a must. Good luck and be safe..

SW

[Elusive R]

If you really want to go that fast, you might want to talk to a shop that builds Bonneville cars for some pointers.

As far as safety, It is just more of a daily driver type street car that I go to shows in, but I like to play around. That would really suck If I needed safety equipment.... I never thought of that! :(

Uh.....duh?

Also, if you're ever on a public road near me and I hear about/see you going that fast, I would not hesitate to call whoever necessary to have you thrown in jail. I'd like to see a "quick blast" to 200. :soapbox:

As said, get a good policy and the rest of us will just hope you don't hurt someone else.

Ryan

[T Bell]

just put bigger turbos on it and "say" it can go that fast. Most people wouldn't want to get in the car with you to verify it anyways. Hot Rod had an article a while back about a black mopar that they modified to go faster. I remember them saying that the aerodynamics of the car made it very hard to get past 150 or so.

[nitrorocket]

This is something I am tossing around. I do not drive this fast on the street most of the time. Keep in mind my car goes 0-150 mph in 10 seconds from a standing stop, so If I am already going 75 mph on the interstate, I get up to 150 mph in hurry, 5 seconds maybe?? I do not drive this fast on any populated street where I could hurt anyone including myself. I can get up to 150 and slow back down before most people can do the quarter mile, so dont go thinking I am a wreckless driver and calling the authoritise(sp) just yet. I drive very safely and have a clean record.

I have nevr gone 200 and that is why I put up a post asking what people who have done it are doing for stability and safety.

Are these races mostly blasts up to 200+??? I would assume so being that you have to slow way down for some turns. It is way easier to accelerate to 200 then to hold it at 200. :wow:

[XcYZ]

Does 200mph on W2W's chassis dyno count? :D

200mph video (http://www.lateral-g.org/movies/MuleW2W.wmv)

[camcojb]

Keep in mind my car goes 0-150 mph in 10 seconds from a standing stop, so If I am already going 75 mph on the interstate, I get up to 150 mph in hurry, 5 seconds maybe?? :wow:

Your car runs 9.99 or better at 150+? Got a video?:unibrow:

Jody

[Elusive R]

This is something I am tossing around.

Why? It's not safe unless you're under controlled conditions (and on a closed course).

I do not drive this fast on the street most of the time. Keep in mind my car goes 0-150 mph in 10 seconds from a standing stop, so If I am already going 75 mph on the interstate, I get up to 150 mph in hurry, 5 seconds maybe?? I do not drive this fast on any populated street where I could hurt anyone including myself. I can get up to 150 and slow back down before most people can do the quarter mile, so dont go thinking I am a wreckless driver and calling the authoritise(sp) just yet. I drive very safely and have a clean record.

200 mph is 293 ft/s. That roughly 1 football field every second. EVERY SECOND. 150 mph is still 220 ft/s. The important factor to consider is not that you can get to 150 mph in 5 seconds but how much distance you're covering in those 5 seconds. Your stopping distance from that speed is much longer than you think it is, too. Even an unpopulated road will have something you don't expect - maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday. I'm sure you're careful about it, but at your power level you have an incredible responsibility to those around you to keep it under the hood. The fact that you don't have a cage means that you probably can't even take your car out on a track because you'll never get through tech. Think about that, too - racing organizations require these safety items because at the kinds of speed you're capable of, things happen very quickly. All the parts in the world won't save you once you're out of control. And don't worry - I'm not going to call the authorities or the authoritise anytime soon.

I have nevr gone 200 and that is why I put up a post asking what people who have done it are doing for stability and safety.

I'm not against you trying to go 200, you just need to go about it the right way.

Ryan

[nitrorocket]

I fully agree about safety. I would like to know what people have had to do differently with suspension in order to do this and have the car handle safely.

Also, yes my car will go 150 mph in 10 seconds. I have over 1000 hp and will trap at about 150 mph. The car will go 9's on drag radials. I have gone 10.50 @ 137 on an inclomplete pass first time out with this motor with only a 1.83 60'. The car normally 60's in the 1.60 range. With a good launch and being able to stay in it next time, the car will go 9's @ 145-150 mph the way it sits, I have over. Don't believe it....Don't worry about it, this has nothing to do with my going 200 mph question. I am not here to BS or exagerate. I am simply stating I have a mega fast car capable of over 200 mph and want to know what tricks there are to make it handle well at that speed. :D

[shayc5]

Your car runs 9.99 or better at 150+? Got a video?:unibrow:

Jody
that's good

[camcojb]

I fully agree about safety. I would like to know what people have had to do differently with suspension in order to do this and have the car handle safely.

Also, yes my car will go 150 mph in 10 seconds. I have over 1000 hp and will trap at about 150 mph. The car will go 9's on drag radials. I have gone 10.50 @ 137 on an inclomplete pass first time out with this motor with only a 1.83 60'. The car normally 60's in the 1.60 range. With a good launch and being able to stay in it next time, the car will go 9's @ 145-150 mph the way it sits, I have over. Don't believe it....Don't worry about it, this has nothing to do with my going 200 mph question. I am not here to BS or exagerate. I am simply stating I have a mega fast car capable of over 200 mph and want to know what tricks there are to make it handle well at that speed. :D

Wasn't saying I didn't believe you, just asking. I had a 1000+ hp street car and no way it would do that as it wouldn't hook.

As said before there's a huge difference between 150 and 200, and with your weight and c/d you may not have the power to do it. Should, but not definitely, and to even consider trying without safety equipment is foolhardy at best. Not sure how you're running mid 10's without equipment in the first place, you definitely cannot where I live.

You will definitely need aero mods. A friend of mine had a third gen Camaro with 800+ rwhp. That car is a lot more slippery than yours and it wouldn't go 200 mph at Silver State. He finally bought a car that would and was killed when a tire went down. He had all the safety equipment available for an unlimited car in that series, and something as simple as a tire still ended his life.

Jody

[Speedster]

Nitro -

200+ sustained, but that's in a boat. You cover a mile in less than 18 seconds.

Here is some of the safety equipment to do this:
Full Fire suits, boots, gloves (in a boat no less)
5 point harnesses
HANS devices
F-16 fighter helmets
Full time oxygen on high speed runs (primary with active backup - you don't know how long you may be unconscious)
Pony bottles strapped to legs (in case primay and secondary lines get cut)
Knife strapped to leg to cut 5 point harnesses to escape
Full cage protection
Full cockpit coverage (think space shuttle windshield)
Emergency access hatches (above and below)
Multi-stage fire suppression systems
Blow over accelerometers
Tracking GPS
Safety divers
Helicopter for safety divers
Life support at most places
Checklists to make sure all safety items are in place before a run

I am not trying to be cocky or arrogant, but you should realize by the above that safety must come first. There is an incredible cost associated with it. As someone told me so succinctly one time "You only have to die once"
So how much is your life really worth?

Not trying to be condescending, but you are a smart guy, so seriously ask yourself how much it costs to SAFELY go 200+ before you commit.

[Steve1968LS2]

As stated there's a HUGE diff between 150 and 200mph.. most cars (with the governor disabled) will go 150.. very few will go 200. why? Simple, aerodynamics plays a huge factor as you go faster and it's a linear deal.

Going an extra 50mph (from 150 to 200) is not just 25% more difficult its WAY more difficult. Also, at that speed air control (no just cutting through the air but directing the air properly) is a life or death thing. If you caught air under you car the wrong way at 200mph you car would become a plane and then a bulldozer.

Also, the amount of safety equipment you would need to have any hope of surviving a mishap at that speed is substancial. Anyone want to do the math on what forces are involved when a 3500 LB object is traveling at 200mph and hits something?

200mph is hard to do in an aerodynamic car like a new Camaro or Vette. It's a LOT harder to do in something like your Chevelle. Not to say you couldn't do it, just that it will a lot of work. Still, it's a fun goal.

Oh, and I won't preach to you about going tripple digits on the highway since I've done it myself. However, it really is a stupid thing to do and one mistake, even by someone else, and your life will be over. Either because you are dead, paralized or worse yet in prison for killing someone. The things we plan for rarely kill us, it's the things that were unplanned that do us in.

Love your car though :thumbsup:

[syborg tt]

The things we plan for rarely kill us, it's the things that were unplanned that do us in.

Love the quote can i use this.

i've gone 156mph and yep that is fast enough. I commend you for your desire to go 200mph.

I've learned a lot hanging out at Rad Rides seeing them build the Cuda and the little things such as "Wickers" (sp) that are neccessary to keep the car on the gorund. When they moved one of the Wickers 1/4" it turned the car into an airplane. So be careful in your goal as it may end up hurting you.

Just anther thought are there any Chevelle Drag cars that are running near 200mph. I can't think of any but I am certain I could be wrong.

[Damn True]

As stated there's a HUGE diff between 150 and 200mph.. most cars (with the governor disabled) will go 150.. very few will go 200. why? Simple, aerodynamics plays a huge factor as you go faster and it's a linear deal.

:thumbsup:


Actually it isn't linear it's exponential.

[Steve1968LS2]

Actually it isn't linear it's exponential.

Brain fade.. that's what I meant to say.. :pat:

[Steve1968LS2]

Love the quote can i use this.

i've gone 156mph and yep that is fast enough. I commend you for your desire to go 200mph.

I've learned a lot hanging out at Rad Rides seeing them build the Cuda and the little things such as "Wickers" (sp) that are neccessary to keep the car on the gorund. When they moved one of the Wickers 1/4" it turned the car into an airplane. So be careful in your goal as it may end up hurting you.

Just anther thought are there any Chevelle Drag cars that are running near 200mph. I can't think of any but I am certain I could be wrong.

Feel free.. I made it up a while ago and it's a good way to look at things..

[rocketman]

I have been 220mph :rockin:


In a 1/4 mile.


In a 68 camaro.



Pro mod car.


I have been 175 in a street car,and like said earlier there's alot of diff.than 150 from exprince,you need alot of safety equipment.I wouldn't even try it with out a cage,suit,good tires.

[Damn True]

Brain fade.. that's what I meant to say.. :pat:

Drag increases with the square of speed. I'll see if I can find a link to an applicable explaination.

Here is a fairly simple breakdown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation

It does not however account for lift induced drag and the resultant effect of changes in frontal area.

[race-rodz]

i have been to a speed limited 186 mph, with nothing more that a cowhide and a helemt for saftey :_paranoid

[Ummgawa]

I have to say f you have the need for that type of speed, Go to the Richard Petty Expierence. They'll take you upwards of 185 and will even let you drive after you've done the class. Or go skydiving.

[camcojb]

i have been to a speed limited 186 mph, with nothing more that a cowhide and a helemt for saftey :_paranoid

Yeah, but you're a nutball! :wow:

Jody

[nitrorocket]

This is not the response I was hoping for. I have never been much above 150 mph in my car and was hoping it would be easy to do. I sometimes take for granted the the way the car drives. I get up to 150 mph so darn fast, that it does'nt really seem that fast. :rolleyes:

Sounds like some of you have gone this fast and it sounds hard to do I guess. I also realized that it can not be done without going to a 6 speed trans, and a 6 speed will not hold my power for any length of time. without losing acceleration, I can only do 190 mph with a overdrive anyway.

My new plan will be buying an adjustable rear anti roll bar, a Gearvendors or a 4l80E, and go from there. Anyone use a Gearvendors???

What do you think the best adjustable shocks are?? Hal adjustable??

[Van B]

Nitro,

I would be concerned with suspension and brakes, but aero concerns will probably hold you back more.

You should sign up for the F Body weekend at Road America this October if you want to get a feel for sustained high speeds.

http://roadamerica.fbody.us/

[nitrorocket]

Nitro,

It seems that you don't understand on how much money is involved in building a car that can go 200 mph. You need to design a chasis built from 4130 chrome moly with a cage. The motor would have to be set back into the chassis. The only muscle car that I can think that went over 200 mph is Big Red. http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/113_0504_1969_chevrolet_camaro/
Also you need to wind tunnel test your car to see on how you can improve the aerodynamics. Can a 6 speed handle 1000 hp? Yes, but it has to be custom built. Rockland standard gear is building custom 6 speeds that can handle over 1200 hp. Actually, I heard it was up to 1500 hp, although you would have to contact Rockland Gear.

You car has not even went 10.50's yet. Sorry, the converter breaking on the first pass doesn't count. My friend's fastest street 69 Camaro runs in the 8.50's with around 1500 hp. He hasn't hit the 200 mph, but he is looking to go faster in time not speed. Also he prefers to remain consistant in his times.


Jeff


E.T. has NOTHING to do with top speed. and I am sure your buddy could EASILY do 200 mph if he stays in the gas a couple seconds longer provided he had the extra gearing. What do you mean by this comment? 1000 hp is 1000 hp, That is enough to push just about anything to 200 mph.

Ans what do you mean my converter breaking on the first pass does'nt count?? I never made a full pass, the car went 10.50@137 letting off the gas, it obviously has much more in it. Are you saying my car does not make the power I say it does or what?? That is a little rude. :(

[PaceCarNut]

There was a video on yenko.net last week(I belive it was yenko.net) The video was of 1 of the new Z06 Corvettes, Passenger video taped the instrument panel (speedo & tach) It went from 0-MPH al the way through 200-MPH and was accomplished pretty quick.
Poster stated that the run was done on a military base runway and used up almost 3 miles.
I tried to find it and link it here but was unable to find it again. Maybe someone here saw it and can post it.
Back to the point, Guys in Corvette were only wearing Helments and firesuits from what I could see. also had the disclaimer of (Professional Drivers on a closed circuit)..

[camcojb]

E.T. has NOTHING to do with top speed. and I am sure your buddy could EASILY do 200 mph if he stays in the gas a couple seconds longer provided he had the extra gearing. What do you mean by this comment? 1000 hp is 1000 hp, That is enough to push just about anything to 200 mph.

Ans what do you mean my converter breaking on the first pass does'nt count?? I never made a full pass, the car went 10.50@137 letting off the gas, it obviously has much more in it. Are you saying my car does not make the power I say it does or what?? That is a little rude. :(

I don't think he was saying that. I also don't think 10.50's at 137 letting off will equal 150 mph trap speed. That is usually an 8 second e.t. to trap that high.

The last Road and Track standing mile had several heavy hitters including a champ car, 1000+ HP Viper, twin turbo S7 Saleen, a couple other race cars and exotics (modded), etc. There was not a single car in the bunch hitting 200 mph in 3/4 mile like you think yours will do. There were three that could hit 200 in a mile, and 11 that were 154-185 mph. The three were the TT Viper at 210 mph, the TT Saleen S7 at 205 mph, and the Lola champ car at 203 mph. You have the HP of the Viper, or something close although he'll have you on torque, a few hundred pounds lighter, and much more aerodynamic. The Saleen and Champ car are lighter still.

Your car may have the power to make 200 mph, but not in a mile in my opinion. But I do not think you can control the car at that speed either without some big help in the air management area. I do not know what changes would be required, but HP alone will not get you there, at least not and live to tell about it. Your car is dangerous compared to most in that it has the HP to get you beyond what the car can handle. In other words, the standard 500-600 HP Chevelle would be limited to say 160 mph as he would not have the HP to push the car shape any faster. He might be near the limit as far as lift, etc. but not over it. Your car will push past that on power alone and will get into an area you do not want to be in.

The goal is cool (except for the street part) and I hope you pursue it. But please do it with the safety equipment required and work your way up in speed testing the handling and air management changes. I would be talking to the Bonneville guys as they go very fast in stock bodied cars of all shapes and sizes.

Jody

[rocketman]

i have been to a speed limited 186 mph, with nothing more that a cowhide and a helemt for saftey :_paranoid


I've 170 mph that way nothing like it.It more adrenline rush on a bike than with doors around you :D

[nitrorocket]

Look, I don't know what the deal is.

I went 10.50@137 mph WHILE breaking and that with with a 1.83 60'(first pass with the turbos). I let off the gas and still went that fast, That was on 14 psi with the old turbos. The car has always 60' in the 1.60 range. Figure that out.

I made 751 RWHP on 93 octane at 14 psi with the old turbos.

I am now making 18.5 psi on 93 octane with the new bigger more efficient turbos. That is over 800 RWHP on pumpgas. I have nothing to prove. If I need a good reason to re-dyno it I will, When I am ready, I will go back to the track. Whether I make 975 hp or 1025 hp at the crank who cares. I have a 1000 hp car.

No more arguing, I am not here to BS or exagerate. It is what it is. You send me $85 and I will get a new dyno sheet for you.... but who cares, The car makes huge power and is a 9 second car, Time slip or not!

What does any of this have to do with my original question????

[rocketman]

Nitro,



You car has not even went 10.50's yet. Sorry, the converter breaking on the first pass doesn't count. My friend's fastest street 69 Camaro runs in the 8.50's with around 1500 hp. He hasn't hit the 200 mph, but he is looking to go faster in time not speed. Also he prefers to remain consistant in his times.


Jeff



I have run low 9's in the 1/4 and run 150.with 800hp.your buddy should be going 7's with 1500hp depending on weight and tire size of course.

[rocketman]

No more arguing, I am not here to BS or exagerate. It is what it is. You send me $85 and I will get a new dyno sheet for you.... but who cares, The car makes huge power and is a 9 second car, Time slip or not!

What does any of this have to do with my original question????

Nothing really,drags and wide open are 2 differnet things.good luck in your goal.

[nitrorocket]

Nothing really,drags and wide open are 2 differnet things.good luck in your goal.


I am not refering to you... I am refering to Sparky doubting my car.

I have not been asking if anyone wants proof or believes my car has 1000 hp.



Anyone notice anything good for stability by lowering or raising the car for real high speeds? I assume lowering would be better, but I would need a wing tunnel to verify. :_paranoid

[camcojb]

Anyone notice anything good for stability by lowering or raising the car for real high speeds? I assume lowering would be better, but I would need a wing tunnel to verify. :_paranoid

Lower is going to be better, but lowering the car isn't going to be nearly enough to keep it stable. Look at Nascar for some ideas, those front and rear spoilers are there for a reason, along with a very small grill area (just enough to cool the engine). They also start with a much smoother aero shape than a Chevelle.

I'm thinking a front and rear spoiler, closing off some of the grille, lowering the car as much as possible just for starters. Problem will be the spoilers aren't going to look good but you need the front to keep the air from creating lift (along with the reduced air through the grill) and you'll appreciate the rear wing/spoiler for downforce. I am not sure you can get the car stable without them at 200 mph, but I am far from an expert. I just don't see any high speed stock-bodied cars without them.

Jody

[rocketman]

I was just answering your question.

[nitrorocket]

I might just have to try to design a retractable air dam setup!! :D

Lower is going to be better, but lowering the car isn't going to be nearly enough to keep it stable. Look at Nascar for some ideas, those front and rear spoilers are there for a reason, along with a very small grill area (just enough to cool the engine). They also start with a much smoother aero shape than a Chevelle.

I'm thinking a front and rear spoiler, closing off some of the grille, lowering the car as much as possible just for starters. Problem will be the spoilers aren't going to look good but you need the front to keep the air from creating lift (along with the reduced air through the grill) and you'll appreciate the rear wing/spoiler for downforce. I am not sure you can get the car stable without them at 200 mph, but I am far from an expert. I just don't see any high speed stock-bodied cars without them.

Jody

[RaceMan]

You want down force for sure , I've gone around 175 many times with only
600hp you just got to have the right place like a good road course. I'm not sure how it wound feel in a street car but its awsome in a full tube chassis!!!
My concern would be brakes and well the car is built .

[rocketman]

The car is a 69 Camaro with 10.5 inch drag radials and Cal Track bars with split leaf spring. He was dragging the rear bumper on launch, the rules won't allow you to run wheelie bars. The weight is around 3400 lbs, not really sure on his current weight. The motor is a 511 Merlin big block and CNC ported from Dart with aluminum rods. The motor was designed to run on NOS, so the motor only made 900 HP. He has couple of different NOS setups that he uses. Powerglide and rear end is 4.11. Actually, he used to run faster with a turbo 400 transmission on just motor, but he switched to the powerglide. In that class you can only use a single stage of NOS. The car should run faster, and they are estimating around 8.30's. Just that was the first time out, it takes time to dial in your combination. The first time he stood it on the rear bumper. He wish they change the rules, so that you can run wheelie bars. Easy to make that statement that you should be in the 7's but doing is another thing. Especially when you are breaking parts.

Jeff



Whellie bars save live's.I broke a set on my pro mod and almost did the bumper act,I was able to pedal it out a little.

[Van B]

Come on up to Road America in October. I will be there with my 67 and a radar gun. Let's see what MPH we can do. I don't believe I have the balls (or the car) to do 200. I do think that 150 will be a blast though, if no deer run on the track.

[HAULNSS]

Here you go...Click here. (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=5535) :yes: One mile straight with a nice bank into turn one.



http://www.minnessota.com/pictures/Pic_313_23.jpg

That shot was of a 600hp '93 Z28 set up for road course duty during one of our club events at BIR. :D Pic of the car is here. (http://www.minnessota.com/pictures/Pic_313_22.jpg) That same car was radared at 219mph in a western state with a different powerplant that had much more power. ;)
http://www.rmarshall.com/_images/camaro_219.jpg



Randy

[hotrods]

I only have on thing to say on this topic. GO TO bigredcamaro.com Looks alot like a stock body to me everyone seems to me to be making a way bigger deal about this than it really is 200 mph is not that big of a deal. Look at some of the vehicles that hold land speed records and you will be amazed at how many have gone faster than 200 and dont look like a nascar or the space shutle.

[hiwayman]

hey hotrods cheers for the link big red at the Z2Z holy how fast did they go awsome!!!

[clill]

Look at the pics of Big Red and you will notice how the front end is drooping down. They pie cut the fenders where they meet the door and dropped the nose down to keep air from getting under the car and it creates downforce on the hood..

[nitrorocket]

Big red just has a stockish looking front air dam. I guess I will just lower the car and put some adjustable shocks on and test it out a few mph at a time??

[Colvindesign]

I went 170 (radar backed up) in a street car once, and only once. And it was built to go that fast and then some. This was in a 1979 Mustang with modified aerodynamics and a much smaller front profile than a Chevelle.

Here is what I would suggest to someone trying to do so,

full tube chassis. Full street race suspension. Very expensive Forged wheels, Very expensive 200 mph tires.

Honestly, for the price of getting your car "safely" to 200 mph, you can just build another LSX powered muscle car that will be awesome and you will have two awesome cars instead of on that will most likely kill you. Doing 200 on a road instead of a track, leaves you open to what can happen on a track, plus what can happen on a road. Think about how much a 15 lb animal will weigh when it is coming at you at 200 mph.

Yeah, it'd be cool to say "My car went 200 mph" but it'd be really pointless if you were not around to say that.

[Streetking]

Ok, the first time I went to Silver State in my old '84 Vette, I was doing 208mph with no spoilers. I had the car really low, street Michelins (didn't know any better), and I had a passenger. The car handled fine. I had the Konis turned to the max stiffness and a good alignment done. The next year I went back with a stronger motor and had to have a cowl hood to clear the bigger carb. Same suspension set up, different passenger and the car was all very unstable above 185. Infact, I could only go about 195 because it was really scary. I couldn't believe that just adding the cowl hood made that much change in the aerodynamics of the car. Up to 170, I could basically drive one handed and have a conversation with my co-driver, above 175 it was another story.

As far as 1/4 mile time, my old 6spd Supra ran 9.81@ 153.7, so you can run over 150 and still be in the nines if your car has alot of power and is not set up for the 1/4.

I did the Texas mile in my Viper 2 years ago and ran 191 with it making 650 rwh and 657twt. I'm going back later this year with the Viper, now that it's making 1300 rwh we want to see what it will do. The problem now is how we are going to hook up 1300rwh on street tires. We are going to have to turn the boost down and probably have to ramp it up with the ECU through the gears. I hope to crest the 200mph mark in the standing mile.

Bottom line is, it's not all just about horspower, there alot of factors for you to get that horsepower to the ground and being safe at the same time..
SW

[USAZR1]

The last Road and Track standing mile had several heavy hitters including a champ car, 1000+ HP Viper, twin turbo S7 Saleen, a couple other race cars and exotics (modded), etc. There was not a single car in the bunch hitting 200 mph in 3/4 mile like you think yours will do. There were three that could hit 200 in a mile, and 11 that were 154-185 mph. The three were the TT Viper at 210 mph, the TT Saleen S7 at 205 mph, and the Lola champ car at 203 mph. You have the HP of the Viper, or something close although he'll have you on torque, a few hundred pounds lighter, and much more aerodynamic. The Saleen and Champ car are lighter still.

Your car may have the power to make 200 mph, but not in a mile in my opinion. But I do not think you can control the car at that speed either without some big help in the air management area. I do not know what changes would be required, but HP alone will not get you there, at least not and live to tell about it. Your car is dangerous compared to most in that it has the HP to get you beyond what the car can handle. In other words, the standard 500-600 HP Chevelle would be limited to say 160 mph as he would not have the HP to push the car shape any faster. He might be near the limit as far as lift, etc. but not over it. Your car will push past that on power alone and will get into an area you do not want to be in.
The goal is cool (except for the street part) and I hope you pursue it. But please do it with the safety equipment required and work your way up in speed testing the handling and air management changes. I would be talking to the Bonneville guys as they go very fast in stock bodied cars of all shapes and sizes.
Jody

This is a very intelligent post. Jody knows what he's talking about. SW has been there too. I've been over 175mph numerous times myself,on bikes and in modified ZR-1's. Corvettes and Vipers are pretty stable and confidence-inspiring at ultrahigh speeds but I would be extremely careful working your way up with a Chevelle. If the car decides to fly,it can happen so fast you won't be able to get outta the gas in time.

FWIW,you will not need a 6spd trans to run an ORR. Most of the Unlimited class cars are running 4spds with 2.00-2.50 final drive ratios.

[Damn True]

I only have on thing to say on this topic. GO TO bigredcamaro.com (http://bigredcamaro.com/) Looks alot like a stock body to me everyone seems to me to be making a way bigger deal about this than it really is 200 mph is not that big of a deal. Look at some of the vehicles that hold land speed records and you will be amazed at how many have gone faster than 200 and dont look like a nascar or the space shutle.



Yeah, Big Red looks stock on your computer screen. However it is anything but. That is a very well thought out and sorted chassis and body built by people who knew EXACTLY WTF they were doing.

The post above about the effect of the change to a cowl hood is very telling.

The link I posted a page back will explain why that happend.

[nitrorocket]

I can do close to 150 mph from a standing stop in only a 1/4 mile right now, that is why I was figuring I could do another 50 mph in an additional 1/2 mile. I may take a mile to reach 200 mph, but I can surely do it as the car sits in my garage right now, the matter is doing it safely and for a possible extended period. My car right now is making a little over 1000hp and 850 ft/lb of torque, give or take a little bit.

My gearing with overdrive will only allow me to do exactly 200 mph at redline anyway.The car, so far rock stable at 150 mph, although I have not tried to really hold that speed for any period of time yet (on ramps are not long enough). I am sure it will be a slow transition to make it a road race car, but I luckily already have most the mechanical parts I need. I still need to decide on shocks and rear anti-roll bar yet, I also want to switvh over to the 4L80E trans.

Thanks for all the input, but lets stop arguing about the power, I easily have enough, don't forget I can add som high octane and turn it up to 1200+ hp at the touch of a button, so the power is no concern whatsoever :D .

[camcojb]

I can do close to 150 mph from a standing stop in only a 1/4 mile right now, that is why I was figuring I could do another 50 mph in an additional 1/2 mile. I may take a mile to reach 200 mph, but I can surely do it as the car sits in my garage right now

This is where you and I will disagree. Nothing to do with horsepower, I don't think the car would hit 200 mph as it sits. Somewhere on the way up to 200 mph I'm thinking the car will turn into a plane, or become so scary that you'll get out of the throttle.

You're welcome to prove me wrong, but I hope you don't try until you research what will keep the car on the ground at that speed.

Jody

[mazspeed]

Well my 2 cents.
I think some of the people here should not bash his power numbers. I think a bunch of us have seen the videos of his dyno pulls before. The car makes serious power. Now 200mph is a serious number. It's not just 50mph from 150, it's a whole different planet. The fastest I have ever gone was 175 in a modified Datsun Scarab. The difference between 150 and 175 was incredible. It's not just 25 mph, it's the difference x 10. The car that we were piloting was a highly modified car in it's day. This was 15 years ago. The amount of suspension work frame work and body work that had to be done to go 175 was 10 times more extensive then it is to go 150 mph. I went 145-150 many times while racing the first gen rx-7's and we had to really get the car down, and get the suspension down to make sure we didn't have tail or front end lift. Nitro, I think you have the power to do it, but you may not have the car. It takes a lot of prep on the suspension side to get that down, including many under body mods to get it from lifting. Like Charlie said, Big Red is a nascar chassis covered by a 69 camaro. It was built and designed to go 220mph. Your car is not. I think you would end up killing yourself if you tried to get that car to 200 mph right now. First off you should research the air drag on the car, and or if you can, take the car someplace to get the coefficient of drag and see what that tells you. For all we know your car may fly at 165 or it may just stick on the ground. Who knows but do you really want to be the crash test person at those speeds? Also you should have a nascar style cage to stiffen it up and protect you. If I was you and had a real bug for this, I would just build a car that did this very thing.
Also if you have family or kids, you should consider them before doing a stunt like this.

[nitrorocket]

Would the car be dangerous, possibly yes, but I have the power and I believe if I stayed in it it would hit 200 mph without flipping :_paranoid .
There is many a drag car like 57 Chevys, Novas, Chevelles, Camaro's, etc, that hit 200 mph in the quarter mile in th outlaw and modified superstreet classes, Most dont even have an air dam anything more than factory. "Bigred" drove at 220 mph and it did not look like he had alot going on for aerodynamics??? Scavos 69 camaro is doing 200 mph with no air dam or other body mods. He is doing that from a dead stop to a quarter mile! :thumbsup:

When the time comes, I will change a few things and start creeping up and see how it behaves, I hope I still have time to do it this year. :unibrow:

[mazspeed]

Would the car be dangerous, possibly yes, but I have the power and I believe if I stayed in it it would hit 200 mph without flipping :_paranoid .
There is many a drag car like 57 Chevys, Novas, Chevelles, Camaro's, etc, that hit 200 mph in the quarter mile in th outlaw and modified superstreet classes, Most dont even have an air dam anything more than factory. "Bigred" drove at 220 mph and it did not look like he had alot going on for aerodynamics??? Scavos 69 camaro is doing 200 mph with no air dam or other body mods. He is doing that from a dead stop to a quarter mile! :thumbsup:

When the time comes, I will change a few things and start creeping up and see how it behaves, I hope I still have time to do it this year. :unibrow:

Nitro, I'm saying this because I kind of know, but I'm no 200mph expert by any means, but I do know racing and speed. The cars that do this are HIGHLY MODIFIED. Your car is not modified for this, and yes these quarter mile cars have these giant rear wings and front spoilers and have the front down and the rear up to push the body down and massive cages. Your car has none of these things. Big Red does have underbody mods, and a whole lot of other mods for this exact thing. If you went out tomorrow and tried this, you and your car would be gone. Going on a quick blast to 150 is easy, holding it and going higher is flat out different.

[camcojb]

Would the car be dangerous, possibly yes, but I have the power and I believe if I stayed in it it would hit 200 mph without flipping :_paranoid .
There is many a drag car like 57 Chevys, Novas, Chevelles, Camaro's, etc, that hit 200 mph in the quarter mile in th outlaw and modified superstreet classes, Most dont even have an air dam anything more than factory. "Bigred" drove at 220 mph and it did not look like he had alot going on for aerodynamics??? Scavos 69 camaro is doing 200 mph with no air dam or other body mods. He is doing that from a dead stop to a quarter mile! :thumbsup:

When the time comes, I will change a few things and start creeping up and see how it behaves, I hope I still have time to do it this year. :unibrow:

Alrighty then, good luck with that. :eek: You ain't listening and I'm getting tired of trying to explain. But a quick re-cap:

The 200 MPH outlaw cars I've seen are all modded, absolutely on the ground, etc.

Big Red is a full tube chassis with a cut/sectioned 69 Camaro body on it. Looks stock, that was the idea. About as stock as a Nascar "stock" car.

Scavos car is way lower than yours, especially up front to keep air out from under it. Likely has some other mods to let air out where it isn't wanted. Don't think it could be driven much on the street at it's ride height.

Jody

[nitrorocket]

I here what your saying, and I am not saying my car would be solid as a rock at that speed, However, it would get there. I just need to make it safe. I am sure after the new adjustable shocks and springs, along with the adjustable sway bar, the car would feel pretty safe.

http://10wideracing.com/gallery/muscle

Here is a few pages of 200 mph cars, Scavos, Brian Metz, Bob Hood, and many others, I have seen these cars run and they do not get airborne. They are accelerating with almost 2000 hp trying to lift the car and make it airborn and they do not. They have no air dams or body mods, some only sit about 1" lower then my car, some do NOT. Anyone of these cars would need more work to sustain that speed, just like mine.

Anyway, back to the original fricken question.... What do you guys do to your cars to hit these speeds and have the car real stable. What shocks, spring rates, sway bars, etc?? :)

[awr68]

Big Red has it's front clip (body panels) tipped down a couple degrees for added down force, take a look at the door to fender gaps.

You clearly aren't listening to these guys....you should before you hurt yourself!!

If you don't have a full cage and are still considering this you are...well in kind words, stupid!! Take a look at Hot Rods to Hell's site for the pics of the Chevelle that went of course at speed, the full cage saved their lives.

Please don't get in over your head, do the needed research and acheve your goal the right way...by either building another car or making the needed changes to this one to make it safe. The question isn't can you do it (I hope you do!), as much as will you do it the right way.

And if you have a wife and kids PLEASE stop driving 150 on the on ramps, go to the drag strip! Take it from a guy that used to ride 1000cc sport bikes way to fast on the street, it's not as cool as you think! Go to the track for EVERYONE'S safety!!!!!!!!

[MSchu]

This is one of the funnier threads in awhile. Go read about the Hot Rod Camaro or Thacker and Shine's roadster trying to break 200 @ Bonneville. Those are two of the more documented accounts of trying to break 200 I can remember. Hell go to B'ville and watch for yourself. If it were as simple as horsepower+stomp the go-pedal=200 mph, then everyone would have one of those coveted red hats. :rolleyes:

[rocketman]

One thing about those cars all are race cars.and have you ever seen a 10.5 car crash at the far end of the track,because they aren't stable at 200 in 1/4,they dance around something terrible.


You are going to need about 3-4 inch ride height,soft springs and shocks to force the car down at higher speeds.and a big sway bar.

[mazspeed]

I here what your saying, and I am not saying my car would be solid as a rock at that speed, However, it would get there. I just need to make it safe. I am sure after the new adjustable shocks and springs, along with the adjustable sway bar, the car would feel pretty safe.

http://10wideracing.com/gallery/muscle


Those are quartermile cars, not cars designed to cruse at 200mph. You are not paying attention to logic here. It's way more then a few suspension mods. If you really try this, you're risking your life. Seriously.

[Damn True]

You are going to need about 3-4 inch ride height,soft springs and shocks to force the car down at higher speeds.and a big sway bar.


Both of which are antithetical to stability and control on irregular surfaces at high speeds or where any change of direction might occur.

See how sticky this can be?

DIG THIS (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=668732022218551122&q=Mercedes+CLR&hl=en) a link to the CLR going ass over tea-kettle on the mulsanne straight. Keep in mind that the body there was designed by the finest minds Daimler-Benz employs. It still flipped due to a combination of a little turbulence and a relatively gentle bump in the road.....@ 200+

That was no 35 year old passenger car. It was, at the time one of the most advanced race cars on the planet.

Your ref to Pro-mod cars is silly. Have you ever seen one? They are anything but stock bodies. The rake of the hood provides in effect a GIANT air dam forcing the front end down. You ever see one lose a cylinder or two on one bank? When that happens the cars veer hard opposite the lost cylinder because the zoomies provide downforce to the front end. The sail panels on those bodies are pulled in to get more air onto the HUGE spoiler with vertical stabs.

The body on your car lacks all of those features.

Again refrencing the CLR read this: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/techarticle1.htm and ask yourself if the profile of your car is better or worse in terms of creating lift than a CLR?

[Matt@Lateral Dynamics]

As far as safety, It is just more of a daily driver type street car that I go to shows in, but I like to play around. That would really suck If I needed safety equipment.... I never thought of that! In context, this quote is one of the more funny things I've read on the internet. Thanks for that.

I say go for it. What's the worst that could happen?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AejuZMbq4c

(Edit) True, I was searching for it as you were editing your post. :) It's the first thing that came to mind when I read the first post.

[ShawnF]

I was wanting to do the same thing a year or so ago. I have a 94" mustang cobra (Don't shoot me I also have a 55 PT belair I'm building) with a dart based sbf 356 cubic inch with all the goodies billet bottom end, afr heads, solid roller, jesel setup, Fast XFI, etc... and a 88mm turbocharger. This is in a car that has every suspension piece that maximum motorsports makes (killer mustang suspension). I had talked to a few guys that had run their cars at serious speeds and was definately educated on the facts of aero and downforce. Like you "Nitrorocket" I thought it would be no big deal to do 200mph (1000+ rwhp) and I had already gone 155 or so with a small turbo and stock motor. When I realized what it would take to do 200mph I was shocked. Just look at the newer cars that are 200mph capable or close and you'll be amazed at what they have. It takes finesse to get a car that fast and be able to be controlled. These cars all have some major things in common besides a slippery outside.. They all have ways to get air out from under the car and prevent most air from getting there in the first place. These cars have good downforce and not a lot of frontal area. I think you could get your chevelle to do it but go drive a new Z06 or even a srt10 viper and then study the car a little and you'll understand what I am saying. The horsepower is there the other larger part to the equation will take some serious work. Good luck

[nitrorocket]

Look, I am asking what people have done to do this as far as parts wise and or some little tricks. First, everyone was saying I do not have the power, I DO. Second, people think I am going to go airborne trying, I posted a link showing pages worth of 100 mph cars that have NOTHING done to the body to hit those speeds, just raw power. I am no idiot and if I thought this was so dam easy, I would hop in right now ant try to go 200, I put this post asking what tricks and or parts people are using. All most are saying is WOW, your gonna flip, that takes power, you need to do alot, It can't be done, turn the car into a space ship! This does not help me get to my goal.

And quit talking like I am wreckless. I want to hear from one person on this board who has not gone through the gears down an on ramp or on a nice freeway clearing at least once, either for fun, showing off, or tuning! Heck, people are talking about going 180 on a bike on the street!
I hit 150 mph and slow back down to 65 by the time I am done with the on ramp. The ramp I use is a little over half mile long, nothing to hit, nobody there that can get hurt. That sure is hell is safer then most crap I see on the internet going 150 mph through traffic and it takes them about a mile to do that, That is dangerous!

------------------------------------
I know it will take lots of experimenting and adjustments to hit 200 or close to that safely, and that is what I want to know.

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE ONE MORE REPLY SAYING I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH POWER OR THAT I WILL BE FLIPPING!

So what do you think, most of you have seen pics of the car, should I lower it more? What are the best shocks/springs you have used? Should I keep the ass end higher then the front??? What do you think?

Anyone going to offer info or links to what I want to do with my car?

Thank you!

[clill]

Asking advise from a bunch of guys that have not gone 200 is probably not going to be very productive. I would consult Kurt at Wheel 2 Wheel.

[nitrorocket]

I though this would be the board. With all the cars on here lowered to the ground, every aftermarket piece in the world, top of the line wheels and tires, even some with wings and spoilers, I figured more people would be going 150-200 mph on here with there cars???

[MarkM66]

Hell, if you want to try it, try it. I'd like to hear the results.

Be aware of your Critical Driveshaft Speed before you put an overdrive in that thing.

Probably why most high speed cars use 1:1 with high ratio rear end gears instead of 4:11's with a .50 overdrive.

[nitrorocket]

Good point, I will have to check That out?? Maybe I would be better off with a gearvendors UNDERDRIVE with the 1' shorter driveshaft it requires. This would allow me to put a 2.73 gear in the car but still accelerate normal while having the optin the put it back to 1:1. I was hoping the 4l80 would be the ticket though. I will have to Contact Dennys to see what the MMC driveshaft is rated for on critical speed! If I remember it is 7,xxx something??

[Steve Chryssos]

This is one of the funnier threads in awhile. Go read about the Hot Rod Camaro or Thacker and Shine's roadster trying to break 200 @ Bonneville. Those are two of the more documented accounts of trying to break 200 I can remember. Hell go to B'ville and watch for yourself. If it were as simple as horsepower+stomp the go-pedal=200 mph, then everyone would have one of those coveted red hats. :rolleyes:

That's true. I was there the first year. We tried everything--including draining a little oil out of the pan to find speed. Never mind 150 to 200, there's a huge money and effort gap between 180 and 200.

[camcojb]

Look, I am asking what people have done to do this as far as parts wise and or some little tricks. First, everyone was saying I do not have the power, I DO. Second, people think I am going to go airborne trying, I posted a link showing pages worth of 100 mph cars that have NOTHING done to the body to hit those speeds, just raw power. I am no idiot and if I thought this was so dam easy, I would hop in right now ant try to go 200, I put this post asking what tricks and or parts people are using. All most are saying is WOW, your gonna flip, that takes power, you need to do alot, It can't be done, turn the car into a space ship! This does not help me get to my goal.

And quit talking like I am wreckless. I want to hear from one person on this board who has not gone through the gears down an on ramp or on a nice freeway clearing at least once, either for fun, showing off, or tuning! Heck, people are talking about going 180 on a bike on the street!
I hit 150 mph and slow back down to 65 by the time I am done with the on ramp. The ramp I use is a little over half mile long, nothing to hit, nobody there that can get hurt. That sure is hell is safer then most crap I see on the internet going 150 mph through traffic and it takes them about a mile to do that, That is dangerous!

------------------------------------
I know it will take lots of experimenting and adjustments to hit 200 or close to that safely, and that is what I want to know.

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE ONE MORE REPLY SAYING I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH POWER OR THAT I WILL BE FLIPPING!

So what do you think, most of you have seen pics of the car, should I lower it more? What are the best shocks/springs you have used? Should I keep the ass end higher then the front??? What do you think?



You are dangerous, at least to yourself. You plan on doing this on the street. No safety equipment, never even considered it by your quote:

"As far as safety, It is just more of a daily driver type street car that I go to shows in, but I like to play around. That would really suck If I needed safety equipment.... I never thought of that! ":eek:

You have not given a single example of a car like yours that has done it without something that holds it on the ground. Every car you listed is either 2" off the ground up front, has a huge wedge built into the front/rear height, or is an all-out race car with air management built into it, but a stockish "looking" body.

You keep asking for shock and spring recommendations, and are totally ignoring everything else. What are you going to do with the grill area? That will create a ton of lift in the front end. You have no front spoiler, are you going to run the front sheetmetal a couple inches off the ground to compensate?

Do you have tires that can run 200 mph? As mentioned before, what driveshaft do you have and what is it's max rated rpm? And don't think because it's a trick 3-4" aluminum aftermarket unit it's fine. I'm amazed how low the max rated rpm is on those things, usually under 8000 rpms. Sounds fine until you put the car in overdive where .33 over means you can't exceed 6000 engine rpms, and that's only if yours is that high; most are less.

All these things and more have been pointed out, but you don't want to hear them; you want shock and spring recommendations, and then off you go. :wow:

My advice is to get ahold of the guys who run Bonneville, and talk to the guys running 200 mph in stock bodied cars. Find out what mods they needed to keep the car planted. It will obviously surprise you as you think your car can do it right now (your quote). If you can get past all the safety things they've installed which you won't run, there should be a lot of good info as far as what they did to compensate for the lift up front, air under the car lifting the rear, etc. These are the "been there, done that" guys and who you need to speak with.

Good luck. I'd say take it to the track but you aren't gonna go for that one; after all, you aren't dangerous!:rofl:

Jody

[dqhemi]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid211/pe23581a29bbf6505426042acb8ab6bc6/ed830aaa.jpg

I used to run in the Unlimited Division of Open Road Races like the Silver State Classic and Pony Express in a 97 Mustang Cobra that would run 205 MPH. We campaigned the car for a number of years and doing 200 MPH is no small task, increasing the top speeds incrementally. Races were 90 to 120 miles in length on closed sections of public highways.

If you're seriously considering this and plan on being around to talk about it, you need to do it in steps. Driving my car at 150 vs 185 vs 200 were all very different. Better learn some about aerodynamics, safety equipment, tires, suspension, driveline and more. We would basically rebuild the car eveery year almsot completely to make it faster the following. Every race you learn something and there are very few who can tell you what does and doesn't work.

Biggest risk is tires going this fast. Almost every bad accident at those speeds has been tire related and since the explorer debacle, none of the tire companies will give out info anymore.

Biggest issue doing this type of stuff is most people under-estimate what it really takes, what's required to do it (reasonably) safely and many get themselves in way over their heads without realizing it.

There used to be quite alot of press on what I was doing, there's still a couple things floating around the internet:

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/featuredvehicles/18758/

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/profiles/history/cobra.html

Magazines would never cover any of the aero information. We'd get our hands on some aero data and model components based on it including calculating air foil downforce at target speed vs. lift and develop components fromt that.

I have in car video and drive by video at over 200 MPH in my Cobra if someone can host it.

Very likely we'll build another car for this kind of fun. I'd want to do it in a platform that's never gone that fast as that's half the fun! Project may start in a wind tunnel this time and I already know tires will be the biggest challenge.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[Steve Chryssos]

Hell, if you want to try it, try it. I'd like to hear the results.

Be aware of your Critical Driveshaft Speed before you put an overdrive in that thing.

Probably why most high speed cars use 1:1 with high ratio rear end gears instead of 4:11's with a .50 overdrive.

That's the most intelligent post in this thread. Overdrive is not really intended for top speed use.

So--just brainstorming here--you would make the following changes:
-Higher rate springs.
-Reduced ride height.
-Different tires (unless you have YR-minimum rated tires already)
-Different wheels (the downward forces applied to your wheel's hubs at that speed are extreme. You want something that is strong and has minimal runout)
-Aero aids designed to direct air up and over the car and add downforce--which must be overcome by more power.
-An approved roll cage (which will enhance stability as well as add safety) -Approved seat and safety gear.
-Increased caster.
-Serious brakes with cooling ducts.
-Higher final drive ratio (lower numerical).
-A roll of 200mph tape (Otherwise your windshield trim will fly off and your underhood area will build excessive pressure).
-A smooth, straight, long, unpopulated stretch of road.
-Someone who is crazy or dumb enough to ride shotgun. (not really necessary, but hey we're just bench racing here, right? Why waste the opportunity to share the moment with someone you love.)
-A tail wind
-A get out of jail free card
-A videographer or two (we wanna see)
-And a horse shoe up your ass (for good luck)

[Steve Chryssos]

....My advice is to get ahold of the guys who run Bonneville, and talk to the guys running 200 mph in stock bodied cars. Find out what mods they needed to keep the car planted....
Jody

Bonneville is a good start, but the conditions are entirely different. Salt and asphalt are light years apart in terms of traction. The open road race sanctioning bodies would prove to be a better source. The SCTA can really only help in terms of structural/safety issues.

[mazspeed]

And quit talking like I am wreckless. I want to hear from one person on this board who has not gone through the gears down an on ramp or on a nice freeway clearing at least once, either for fun, showing off, or tuning! Heck, people are talking about going 180 on a bike on the street!
I hit 150 mph and slow back down to 65 by the time I am done with the on ramp. The ramp I use is a little over half mile long, nothing to hit, nobody there that can get hurt. That sure is hell is safer then most crap I see on the internet going 150 mph through traffic and it takes them about a mile to do that, That is dangerous!
------------------------------------


This has to be the dumbest post I have seen on these boards. Going though the gears on a freeway off ramp is not like going 200mph on the public streets. Are your brains made of soy sauce? The idiots on the bikes that do this are not much smarter then you have demonstrated to us on this insane thread. Your stupidity is a danger to yourself and others. I refuse to help anyone who thinks this is a good idea.
It's crap like this that give people with muscle cars a bad name.

[dqhemi]

One more thought, no way no how would I be going in that speed range without a full cage, a REAL racing seat mounted to the cage, full safety equipment, window nets or arm restraints, fire system, REAL race quality wheels,full safety gear and a car that was sorted out for those speeds.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[camcojb]

Bonneville is a good start, but the conditions are entirely different. Salt and asphalt are light years apart in terms of traction. The open road race sanctioning bodies would prove to be a better source. The SCTA can really only help in terms of structural/safety issues.

True, I was thinking in terms of air management.

Jody

[dqhemi]

.....Some note on how we did this....
-Higher rate springs. ...Need more than that. We had shocks valved for the application.
-Reduced ride height. ...Lower reduces frontal area and reducing drag is the most important thing to do....
-Different tires (unless you have YR-minimum rated tires already) ....Very few tires will last for any kind of distance at those speeds. In some cases, certain sizes of specific tire models are built differently for OE applications. Tires we ran on were confirmed to be good for over 200. We only ran nitrogen in the tires. You need real race quality wheels. You must run metal valve stem - not rubber - or forces may cause a failure of the stem....
-Different wheels (the downward forces applied to your wheel's hubs at that speed are extreme. You want something that is strong and has minimal runout). ----To go really fast you don't want to create downforce, just eliminate lift, which will reduce drag....
-Aero aids designed to direct air up and over the car and add downforce--which must be overcome by more power. ---- Aero at those speeds is not just over the car, you need to look at internal aero as well as what goes on under the car. ------
-An approved roll cage (which will enhance stability as well as add safety) -Approved seat and safety gear. ---This needs to be doen correctly, attaching the seat to the cage is critical and must be done right as well. Swing out door bars and the like are asking for trouble----
-Increased caster.
-Serious brakes with cooling ducts. ---You don't use your brakes at those speeds, or rather it's just one stop at the end. Saying another way, the aero forces are huge, when you lift the car slows dramatically just from the drag. So only place you use the brakes is when you come to a full stop, ducts aren't necessary and can also create more drag.....
-Higher final drive ratio (lower numerical). ---With overdrive, and yes you need to calculate driveshaft RPM. We only used carbon fiber shafts for real high speeds and they are part fo the safety equipment if you know what happens to them in a crash-----
-A roll of 200mph tape (Otherwise your windshield trim will fly off and your underhood area will build excessive pressure). ---Yes and no. You want to tape all the seems to smooth all the surfaces. We removed any trim that might induce drag. Get rid of side mirrors too. Not too hard to calculate frontal area, estimate drag and see how much HP it takes to run the mirrors at 200 MPH....
-A smooth, straight, long, unpopulated stretch of road. ---Not for me on that way too dangerous. Open road races you can go as fast as you want with safety crews, run on a public hoghway, have the local police cheering you on and people around you can learn from, if you know who to listen to.....
-Someone who is crazy or dumb enough to ride shotgun. (not really necessary, but hey we're just bench racing here, right? Why waste the opportunity to share the moment with someone you love.) ---I always ran with a navigator. They let you know what's coming up (most of the time)----
-A tail wind
-A get out of jail free card
-A videographer or two (we wanna see)
-And a horse shoe up your ass (for good luck)

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsorts.com

[Damn True]

You claim to routinely accelerate to 150mph on a freeway on-ramp and yet you claim that your aren't wreckless? :rofl:

a) Quit doing that stuff on public roads. This hobby does not need our own version of the Malibu Enzo wreck http://www.wreckedexotics.com/special/enzo/

b) Please confine these sort of efforts to closed competition venues. This will at least ensure you are using the minimum safety equipment and properly rated tires.

c) Build up your efforts in small bites. You want to find out how the car behaves at 160 BEFORE you are going 170. Because if you break through some kind of wierd behavior, you still have to go back throught that speed range again. This is why SCTA and the open road organizations make their participants start in the lower speed ranges before they allow them to enter unlimited classes.

d) When asking people for advice regarding something like this it is in poor form to give them lip when they voice concern for your safety and those around you.

[dqhemi]

Hell, if you want to try it, try it. I'd like to hear the results.

Be aware of your Critical Driveshaft Speed before you put an overdrive in that thing.

Probably why most high speed cars use 1:1 with high ratio rear end gears instead of 4:11's with a .50 overdrive.

Actually, virtually all the guys I knew going really fast ran overdrive, including myself. I ended up running a close ratio T-56 6-speed w/ 3.08's in the rear and never had a problem. Clutches are a bit of a challenge.

Driveshaft RPM definitely is important. I always ran a safety loop (which rules didn't require) and ended up running a carbon fiber shaft which is much safer in a crash as they simply disintgrate.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[nitrorocket]

I contacted Dennys on my driveshaft, they say it is good to go, especially after shortened for the overdrive. I run a 3.42 gear now and will probably just try that.

I run BFG Comp TA/ZR Tires right now so they are safe.

I will start looking into making some type of a front air dam setup that is possibly removable so I can take it off when not racing, otherwise it would get ripped off every time I go through a drivethrough.

Do the high speed guys use quick ratio steering boxes? I would think this would be bad at high speeds.

Thanks for some of the last few posts, very informative!



And for those of you who think I am a moron, Shut up! How many bikes run roll cages??? You are not dangerous if you don't have a cage and go 150 mph, would it be safer in case of an incident... Yes, of course! I am not any more dangerous going 150 mph in my car then every bike in the world, I would say I am safer in my car as it sits then on a bike. So if every bike rider crazy for going 150 mph with no cage?? All they have is a helmet, jacket, and boots!

Point is My car is very safe for what I have been doing, I dont have a roll cage, but everything else is up to standards, good tires, brakes, sfi approved parts, etc.

AND...Mazspeed...Who said I would be going 200 mph on public streets?? I said I want to start doing some type of road racing! Did you mis understand me?? So far I have not done anything that anyone on this board has not doen on the street, I go through the gears on an on ramp..Is that a big deal?? Have you not?? I drive slower than most people on a regular basis and have a clean record. I am not a wreckless driver by any means, I am putting nobody in danger. Is this understandable??

[XcYZ]

I have in car video and drive by video at over 200 MPH in my Cobra if someone can host it.

John, I can take care of that for you. :thumbsup:

[camcojb]

I contacted Dennys on my driveshaft, they say it is good to go, especially after shortened for the overdrive. I run a 3.42 gear now and will probably just try that.

I run BFG Comp TA/ZR Tires right now so they are safe.

I will start looking into making some type of a front air dam setup that is possibly removable so I can take it off when not racing, otherwise it would get ripped off every time I go through a drivethrough.

Do the high speed guys use quick ratio steering boxes? I would think this would be bad at high speeds.

Thanks for some of the last few posts, very informative!



And for those of you who think I am a moron, Shut up! How many bikes run roll cages??? You are not dangerous if you don't have a cage and go 150 mph, would it be safer in case of an incident... Yes, of course! I am not any more dangerous going 150 mph in my car then every bike in the world, I would say I am safer in my car as it sits then on a bike. So if every bike rider crazy for going 150 mph with no cage?? All they have is a helmet, jacket, and boots!

Point is My car is very safe for what I have been doing, I dont have a roll cage, but everything else is up to standards, good tires, brakes, sfi approved parts, etc.

AND...Mazspeed...Who said I would be going 200 mph on public streets?? I said I want to start doing some type of road racing! Did you mis understand me?? So far I have not done anything that anyone on this board has not doen on the street, I go through the gears on an on ramp..Is that a big deal?? Have you not?? I drive slower than most people on a regular basis and have a clean record. I am not a wreckless driver by any means, I am putting nobody in danger. Is this understandable??

Please do not argue the dangerous part, as you don't have a leg to stand on. You're doing it on public roads, therefore you are dangerous and wreckless, end of story.

Flooring it on an on-ramp with no traffic? Absolutely, do it often. Up to 150 mph? Absolutely never, have to be an idiot to think this is normal behavior and not dangerous.

Oh, by the way, you say you're going to start doing roadracing and this won't be on the street. That's perfect, but there's not a track out there that will let you try this without a roll cage and all the safety equipment, so be prepared and add it into your budget. I do not know how you can run 10's without one either, but for one pass until they kick you off the track I can see it.

One last item, ZR rated tires are not made to go 200 mph on a high speed sustained run.

Good info for you coming now, so hopefully you read it and get the point. The safety equipment shows up in every post, so do not ignore it.

Jody

[mazspeed]

I contacted Dennys on my driveshaft, they say it is good to go, especially after shortened for the overdrive. I run a 3.42 gear now and will probably just try that.

I run BFG Comp TA/ZR Tires right now so they are safe.

I will start looking into making some type of a front air dam setup that is possibly removable so I can take it off when not racing, otherwise it would get ripped off every time I go through a drivethrough.

Do the high speed guys use quick ratio steering boxes? I would think this would be bad at high speeds.

Thanks for some of the last few posts, very informative!

And for those of you who think I am a moron, Shut up! How many bikes run roll cages??? You are not dangerous if you don't have a cage and go 150 mph, would it be safer in case of an incident... Yes, of course! I am not any more dangerous going 150 mph in my car then every bike in the world, I would say I am safer in my car as it sits then on a bike. So if every bike rider crazy for going 150 mph with no cage?? All they have is a helmet, jacket, and boots!

Point is My car is very safe for what I have been doing, I dont have a roll cage, but everything else is up to standards, good tires, brakes, sfi approved parts, etc.

AND...Mazspeed...Who said I would be going 200 mph on public streets?? I said I want to start doing some type of road racing! Did you mis understand me?? So far I have not done anything that anyone on this board has not doen on the street, I go through the gears on an on ramp..Is that a big deal?? Have you not?? I drive slower than most people on a regular basis and have a clean record. I am not a wreckless driver by any means, I am putting nobody in danger. Is this understandable??


You have yet to say anything about racing other then your blasts down the freeway, and how you can achieve higher speeds. Jody said the same thing, you didn't correct him. Going though the gears on a 400hp car or less is quite a bit different then going though the gears on a car as fast as yours is. You obviously don't have the responsibility to use your car correctly. It's not built for this kind of speed. Do you know most rims on the road today are not designed for this speed? Bonneville cars, all have steel wheels and are rated for the speeds they try to acheive. Your tires, might be rated for it, but dont count on it, not for a sustained run. You have no cage of any kind?? Yeah real smart and real safe. Any asshole can stick in a 1000hp motor and say I want to go 200mph, but you completely fail to understand what it takes. Let alone dragging down the street in a car like yours. And no, I never went down the street full blast with a 1000hp car going though the gears. There is a place and time for everything, but you have no idea what time that is. That alone makes you irresponsible and wreckless, and combine this with stupidity and you have a lethal combination. What part of this do you fail to understand? What part of this is not wreckless?

[dqhemi]

I contacted Dennys on my driveshaft, they say it is good to go, especially after shortened for the overdrive. I run a 3.42 gear now and will probably just try that.

I run BFG Comp TA/ZR Tires right now so they are safe.



Z-Rated tires are not even close - 146 MPH I believe. Z is "above" 146, but you dpon't know how much, so that means only 146 MPH.

Highest rating is Y - which is above 186, but they will never tell you how much above 186, so you can only assume 186 out of them.

Speed rating tests are a bit scary as well. If I remember correctly, they run the tires for 30 seconds at a time in 5 MPH increments (or actually KPH which is why we have 186 etc) and if it lives there it is rated for the speed.

Last time we were starting to rebuild I had gotten five different tires to have tested at 220 MPH and they were to be run for three hours or failure (whichever first), with temp reading data logged. Also some other tests were to be done. We hoped to see temp spikes before failure or identify characteristics to see precursors to failure. I purchased infra red temp sensors to mount on the car in each wheel well with on dash displays so for the specific tires we found to be best, we would have some warning before it failed - readouts are programmeable to indicate green, yellow and red conditions. There are very few tire monitoring systems that update quickly enough to be useful and they start at about $20K.

If you are serious about doing this - safely - this should give you an idea of the lengths we go to. I would also recommend running nitrogen.

Re: your driveshaft you need to calculate the RPM given your trans, tire size and rear gear ratio at the target speeds. Also, I would seriously consider at least an aluminum shaft as rotational mass can be an issue with the RPM's - unless you can go and get a NASCAR quality steel shaft.

One thing to keep in mind that many have learned the hard way - it's no small task to have a car that fast that is not single purpose built. Can be done, but many have failed trying.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[MarkM66]

Actually, virtually all the guys I knew going really fast ran overdrive, including myself. I ended up running a close ratio T-56 6-speed w/ 3.08's in the rear and never had a problem. Clutches are a bit of a challenge.

Driveshaft RPM definitely is important. I always ran a safety loop (which rules didn't require) and ended up running a carbon fiber shaft which is much safer in a crash as they simply disintgrate.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

What gear were you in at top speed?

[dqhemi]

John, I can take care of that for you. :thumbsup:

Scott,
Check your email

Three videos in separate emails

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[dqhemi]

What gear were you in at top speed?

Car would run in 5th.

Was set up to shift into 6th at redline running at 215 MPH.

Started making next round of changes to do just that, but never made it back out there again.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[dqhemi]

Do the high speed guys use quick ratio steering boxes? I would think this would be bad at high speeds.

Thanks for some of the last few posts, very informative!

And for those of you who think I am a moron, Shut up! How many bikes run roll cages??? You are not dangerous if you don't have a cage and go 150 mph, would it be safer in case of an incident... Yes, of course! I am not any more dangerous going 150 mph in my car then every bike in the world, I would say I am safer in my car as it sits then on a bike. So if every bike rider crazy for going 150 mph with no cage?? All they have is a helmet, jacket, and boots!

Point is My car is very safe for what I have been doing, I dont have a roll cage, but everything else is up to standards, good tires, brakes, sfi approved parts, etc.


A few thoughts for you. Having actually done this, learned from people I respected that had been at it longer than me and also seen some people die or get badly hurt, at an absolute minimum you need:

1. A cage - at least 6-point welded in
2. A REAL Racing seat - I've seen stock ones collapse
3. Seat mounted to the cage
4. 5 or 6 point harnesses properly mounted
5. Helmet and full driving suit
6. Fire system
7. Fuel cell - a real one w/ a kevlar bladder
8. Battery box (I've seen these get tossed 50 yards or so from crashes)
9. Window nets or arm restraints
10. Engine restraint
11. Was just starting when I was racing but wouldn't do it w/o now is a HANS or similar device.

Window nets or arm restraints are very important because in a crash you are a rag doll and unless there is a net or restraints your arms can end up outside the window when it is flipping/rolling. I preferred nets, because they have the added benefit of keeping debris OUT of the passenger compartment.

If you REALLY want to do this you need to:

1. Get the car safe
2. Get the car to handle
3. Start working on aero - you will never go straight to 200 MPH safely take steps
4. Get an engine package and driveline that will survive
5. Get some seat time at lower speeds

Number 4 takes much more than you will ever think
No way I'd be trying a gear vendors unit for this
With your turbo setup your biggest challenge will be heat soak running at WOT for extended periods

re: #5 going from 185 to upper 190's and above was a learning experience and took me a while to be totally relaxed at those speeds.

Re: quick ratio steering - it's almost irrelevant as you hardly turn the wheel at all taking a turn at those speeds. In theory it might be beneficial not to run a quick ratio box, but there are much more important areas to spend your money on. Also, if your plan is to go that fast, you can ultimately save money by building it for that the first time and swap less parts later.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[fatlife]

:cheering:

[nitrorocket]

Why would a Gear vendors not work??

Also, I do run a Dennys aluminum MMC shaft that is rated for this. I believe he said critical speed is 8100 with the lenght I am at and almost 9000 or so with a shorter length if I go Gearvendors instead of a 4l80. My concern with a 4l80 is the 4th gear being able to handle full power after I make the shift into 4th. I can limit power going into 4th, but then I want to be able to go back to full power.

Comp TA ZR tires were rated to 187+ I thought??

I will fabbing up a 6 point roll bar when I get time, Boy I sure wish this motor did'nt make so much power, life would be so much easier! I do have to say though, you would never guess you were doing 150 in the car, it gets theres SO fast and smooth and then WHAM your bouncing of the rev limiter! I really kind of miss the excitment of going through the gears at a normal rate that allows you to anticipate going faster. Now it is just floor it and, bam, your there, it takes a little fun out of it, you know.

Starting to get some awesome input!!

[dqhemi]

Why would a Gear vendors not work??

Also, I do run a Dennys aluminum MMC shaft that is rated for this. I believe he said critical speed is 8100 with the lenght I am at and almost 9000 or so with a shorter length if I go Gearvendors instead of a 4l80. My concern with a 4l80 is the 4th gear being able to handle full power after I make the shift into 4th. I can limit power going into 4th, but then I want to be able to go back to full power.

Comp TA ZR tires were rated to 187+ I thought??

I will fabbing up a 6 point roll bar when I get time, Boy I sure wish this motor did'nt make so much power, life would be so much easier! I do have to say though, you would never guess you were doing 150 in the car, it gets theres SO fast and smooth and then WHAM your bouncing of the rev limiter! I really kind of miss the excitment of going through the gears at a normal rate that allows you to anticipate going faster. Now it is just floor it and, bam, your there, it takes a little fun out of it, you know.

Starting to get some awesome input!!

I'd get a trans that is rated for the power and do it right. An external overdrive unit running at these speeds is not something you want to think about - one more thing that can become an issue. Not sure how much additional HP you will be eating up w/ that unit and heat is an issue. So if you need to run a trans cooler, you would now need to run two for both units and figure how to package them while minimizing drag.

ZR, I'm assuming is 'Z' rated. Only 'Y' is 186 and this only means they tested to 186, not 200 MPH. Plain old 'Z' is only rated to 146.

You mention roll-bar, not sure if just a typo, but you need a cage for this, not a bar.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[Speedster]

I will fabbing up a 6 point roll bar when I get time, Boy I sure wish this motor did'nt make so much power, life would be so much easier! I do have to say though, you would never guess you were doing 150 in the car, it gets theres SO fast and smooth and then WHAM your bouncing of the rev limiter! I really kind of miss the excitment of going through the gears at a normal rate that allows you to anticipate going faster. Now it is just floor it and, bam, your there, it takes a little fun out of it, you know.

And for those of you who think I am a moron, Shut up! How many bikes run roll cages??? You are not dangerous if you don't have a cage and go 150 mph, would it be safer in case of an incident... Yes, of course! I am not any more dangerous going 150 mph in my car then every bike in the world, I would say I am safer in my car as it sits then on a bike. So if every bike rider crazy for going 150 mph with no cage?? All they have is a helmet, jacket, and boots!


Nitro -
With all of the fabricating you did on your car and your intelligent posts and helpful replies, you earned the respect of many members. I think your thread here has pretty much ruined that. If you want to kill yourself, fine. You ask for advice, yet have the answers, fine. You tell us "I sure wish this motor didn't make so much power". So a little bragging rights - That's cool, your chassis dyno run proves it.

But Physics 101 - a two ton car going 150+ in your scenario is considered a leathal WEAPON in the eyes of the law. A car has an order of magnitude more force than a bike. Members of this board, myself included, are genuinely concerned that you don't go hurt yourself. Since you choose to ignore it - fine, just don't take anyone else with you. The consequences would be way beyond your control.

Good Luck.

[rocketrod]

Nitro -
With all of the fabricating you did on your car and your intelligent posts and helpful replies, you earned the respect of many members. I think your thread here has pretty much ruined that. If you want to kill yourself, fine. You ask for advice, yet have the answers, fine. You tell us "I sure wish this motor didn't make so much power". So a little bragging rights - That's cool, your chassis dyno run proves it.

But Physics 101 - a two ton car going 150+ in your scenario is considered a leathal WEAPON in the eyes of the law. A car has an order of magnitude more force than a bike. Members of this board, myself included, are genuinely concerned that you don't go hurt yourself. Since you choose to ignore it - fine, just don't take anyone else with you. The consequences would be way beyond your control.

Good Luck.
Well said, but he just isn't listening. He just keeps typing I've got a 1000HP at the crank......

[Damn True]

Imagine you are going 200mph. Now look at your wristwatch and count off 18 seconds.

You just covered a mile.

[JUSTANOVA]

are there any books that cover aerodynamics and their practical use on a racecar....something that starts with the basics of spoiler/airdam design?

because I too am looking to build a car capable of running these speeds but I am starting with a shell and building the car for this purpose.

[MarkM66]

Here's a nice little read on the aerodynamics of a 1st gen Camaro.

http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/restoarchives/winter99/18-21camaro.pdf

Notice how the front produces LIFT, and that's at relatively low speeds with a front spoiler. I can only imagine a brick like a '71 Chevelle would be even worse, frontal area is definitally worse. Gotta get that thing down to the ground with a rake, block of the grill, etc. if you'll ever have chance of keeping that thing on the ground at 200.

[dqhemi]

are there any books that cover aerodynamics and their practical use on a racecar....something that starts with the basics of spoiler/airdam design?

because I too am looking to build a car capable of running these speeds but I am starting with a shell and building the car for this purpose.

There are a few. Some are more cusrory.

Best book is by Joseph Katz. Has good rules of thumb and lots of technical information.

You can also look for SAE papers....

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[Damn True]

Here's a nice little read on the aerodynamics of a 1st gen Camaro.

http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/restoarchives/winter99/18-21camaro.pdf

Notice how the front produces LIFT, and that's at relatively low speeds with a front spoiler. I can only imagine a brick like a '71 Chevelle would be even worse, frontal area is definitally worse. Gotta get that thing down to the ground with a rake, block of the grill, etc. if you'll ever have chance of keeping that thing on the ground at 200.

Yup. Even with the air dam and spoiler, there is over 200lbs of LIFT at only 115mph. Recalling that the increase in drag, and aerodynamic lift increases with the square of speed the result @ 200mph is......yikes.

Nitro,
I am being totally serious here. I want to know what makes you think that the above and these [http://www.mulsannescorner.com/techarticle1.htm] aerodynamic principles wont apply in your application.

[Jr]

The last Road and Track standing mile had several heavy hitters including a champ car, 1000+ HP Viper, twin turbo S7 Saleen, a couple other race cars and exotics (modded), etc. There was not a single car in the bunch hitting 200 mph in 3/4 mile like you think yours will do. There were three that could hit 200 in a mile, and 11 that were 154-185 mph. The three were the TT Viper at 210 mph, the TT Saleen S7 at 205 mph, and the Lola champ car at 203 mph. You have the HP of the Viper, or something close although he'll have you on torque, a few hundred pounds lighter, and much more aerodynamic. The Saleen and Champ car are lighter still.



Jody
This is in the September 2005 Road and Track

[Damn True]

This is in the September 2005 Road and Track

Here it is:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=2572

Interesting stuff.

[JUSTANOVA]

There are a few. Some are more cusrory.

Best book is by Joseph Katz. Has good rules of thumb and lots of technical information.

You can also look for SAE papers....

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

Do you by chance know the name of the book?

where would I find SAE papers?

I thought at one time I saw a book by steve smith on aerodynamics but I haven't seen it since.

Here's a nice little read on the aerodynamics of a 1st gen Camaro.

http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/r...18-21camaro.pdf

Notice how the front produces LIFT, and that's at relatively low speeds with a front spoiler. I can only imagine a brick like a '71 Chevelle would be even worse, frontal area is definitally worse. Gotta get that thing down to the ground with a rake, block of the grill, etc. if you'll ever have chance of keeping that thing on the ground at 200.

thats a pretty good little read, The car that I am going to try to get to that speed is a 72 nova, I plan on a pretty big airdam, blocking the whole grill, except for the rad. opening., probably a piece of sheet alum. dzused over the grill/headlight area for top speed runs, I want to do all the proper research before I start cutting sheetmetal etc. I was going to use flush mount door handles, cut/tuck the rear bumper into the body etc....

I also plan on running an artmorrison chassis and fully itegrated cage...etc... with that chassis I should be able to set ride heights really low and make the bottom of the car flat.

as far as aero tricks it has crossed my mind to lower the leading edge of the hood to pomote downforce and then make the part of the fender that lines up with the hood come down to match the hood. but leave the outer edge of the fender stock so it doesn't disturb the body line.

[dqhemi]

Do you by chance know the name of the book?

where would I find SAE papers?

I thought at one time I saw a book by steve smith on aerodynamics but I haven't seen it since.



thats a pretty good little read, The car that I am going to try to get to that speed is a 72 nova, I plan on a pretty big airdam, blocking the whole grill, except for the rad. opening., probably a piece of sheet alum. dzused over the grill/headlight area for top speed runs, I want to do all the proper research before I start cutting sheetmetal etc. I was going to use flush mount door handles, cut/tuck the rear bumper into the body etc....

I also plan on running an artmorrison chassis and fully itegrated cage...etc... with that chassis I should be able to set ride heights really low and make the bottom of the car flat.

as far as aero tricks it has crossed my mind to lower the leading edge of the hood to pomote downforce and then make the part of the fender that lines up with the hood come down to match the hood. but leave the outer edge of the fender stock so it doesn't disturb the body line.

Race Car Aerodynamics: designing For Speed
By Jospeh Katz
ISBN 0-8376-0142-8

SAE: www.sae.org
I wouldn't start buying papers until you have a handle on what you are looking for.

Re: the Camaro article all these cars have lots of front end lift. My Mustang in stock trim had 200 lbs of lift at 100 MPH. Also, the air dam on the Camaro may work some, but it will make lots of drag. You always want to make downforce, or in this case reduce lift, while minimizing drag. Lift itself causes drag to go up.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[Damn True]

More math:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-induced_drag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-to-drag_ratio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_aerodynamics

[JUSTANOVA]

some of you guys mentioned wind tunnel testing in previous posts, Is there any place that you could do/get wind tunnel testing done without having nascar pockets?

[Stuart Adams]

The amount of modifications and such to your car would be so expensive to get it to sustain 200 mph and be racing at the same time be somewhat safe ( nothing is safe at 200 ask Dale E's family), that it would no longer look like a chevelle.

Not a do able thing IMO. One plus would be you can pick your coffin out before you get in the car, put some wings on it because it will likely take a few short flights, no qualified frequent flier miles though.

Don't do it, period. Be safe and alive is a good thing.

[Mkelcy]

One plus would be you can pick your coffin out before you get in the car, put some wings on it because it will likely take a few short flights, no qualified frequent flier miles though.
Uh, oh. Now you've done it, Stuart. Nitrorocket warned everyone he's asking for help on this quest not to tell him his car wouldn't be stable at 200mph.
I DO NOT WANT TO SEE ONE MORE REPLY SAYING I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH POWER OR THAT I WILL BE FLIPPING!
If I didn't know better, I'd think Nitrorocket was channelling Andy Kaufman doing a car "comedy" bit in this thread.

[Steve Chryssos]

some of you guys mentioned wind tunnel testing in previous posts, Is there any place that you could do/get wind tunnel testing done without having nascar pockets?

AeroDyn built a 2nd wind tunnel to keep up with demand. A1 was running a full 24/7 schedule, so they built A2 and discounted the rates since they doubt it will be possible to fill the schedule.

http://www.a2wt.com/info.html

[USAZR1]

Man,I find myself shaking my head in agreement with some of you. My modified 90 ZR-1 was dead-stable at 155mph,started to feel tail-end light at a little over 165,and was starting to make me very nervous at 175.

[Stuart Adams]

Just trying to lighten it up some. Nitro, I think your goals and such are great, but honestly why put your life in jeopardy by trying to make some basic mods and race at 200 mph. Honestly I don't want to sound like a smart ass comedian, but really you need to consult some specialists in the arena your trying to race in.

It's not just basic numbers, IMO. It's much more involved than that. Going down a straight away at 200mph, and then shutting it down immediately is MUCH different than racing at 200mph. Good luck and be cool.

[nitrorocket]

Here we go again, some good info, and some stupid stuff.

How have I lost respect of anyone??? By saying I want to try to hit about 200 mph and that I have the power to do it so tell me what stuff people are doing to be stable at these speeds???

THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME!!!!!! :mad:

I have to KEEP mentioning my 1000 hp not to brag, but have you seen all the replys saying I dont have enough power!, I am simply stating I do, so don't keep talking about it and doubting 1000 hp could hit 200 mph. Talk about things I need to know about handling! Handling is the issue, not my power but people kept going on it. What was I supposed to say??

I have also been listining to everything people are saying and have gotton a ton of good ideas going through my head now, but every other post is how it can't be done, or picking on me, what the hell is the deal here!

I asked what people are doing to hit these speeds, maybe I can only hit 175 mph with good stability, but at least that is something, right??

I have been checking at all the trans places I can find to see if the 4th gear on a 4l80 can handle full power and live, Hipster said no, but a few other places are getting back to me. Looks like a Gearvendors unit might be the only choice?? That would suck because I really want one of those super trick paddle shift steering wheels!! :unibrow:

[MSchu]

Man, this is like a bad wreck, you can't help but to look. :faint:
Here's the article in Hot Rod, it talks about the setup of car: http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/113_0501_bonneville_national/index.html
Next check out www.landracing.com and www.openroadracing.com. Both have forums, people there would be able to help you more than everyone here combined, but, dig how few people are in the 200mph club. Notice how everyone is competing w/ RACE CARS and not STREET CARS? You have the power to do it, noone is doubting that. Read up on the rules and get the car to pass tech ie: full boogey Cage, not a 6 pt. bar, and everything else that will turn your STREET CAR into a RACE CAR really quick. One last point, you can't just show and proclaim "I'm gonna run 200mph in my sUper SiC 1,000hp Chevelle y0!" You have to go in stages up to Unlimited. Take it in steps, do the reading and researching, add the safety items and then add some more, then you can do it. With luck. Maybe. :willy:

[Damn True]

Here we go again, some good info, and some stupid stuff.




Stupid stuff? You mean people being concerned for you and your safety? That kind of stupid stuff?

People not wanting to find out on a Monday morning that you made a smoking hole in the desert?
I would hope people might be so "stupid" regarding me someday.


How have I lost respect of anyone??? By saying I want to try to hit about 200 mph and that I have the power to do it so tell me what stuff people are doing to be stable at these speeds???

Shut down the pride for a minute and you will see that is exactly what people have been doing. There have been suggestions regarding required body, suspension, and safety modifications required to make your STREET car at least survivable at those speeds. But the overriding theme is concern for your safety. The reason is that you are, and you must admit to this, using a frying pan as a screwdriver.

A '71 Chevelle is not the right tool for the job. By saying that I am by no means saying you shouldnt try. If you did it, it would be bitchin as all-get-out. However, it will be VERY tough, VERY expensive and VERY VERY dangerous to do so.

I and the rest, are simply trying to make sure you are aware of the obstacles and the HUMONGUS risk you are undertaking.

[Van B]

But the overriding theme is concern for your safety.


What he said. :thumbsup:

[Steve Chryssos]

.....
I have been checking at all the trans places I can find to see if the 4th gear on a 4l80 can handle full power and live, Hipster said no, but a few other places are getting back to me. Looks like a Gearvendors unit might be the only choice?? That would suck because I really want one of those super trick paddle shift steering wheels!! :unibrow:

On a 4L80E, Overdrive will not handle 1000HP at high speed. It is designed for economy--not high load applications. That said, you can hang a gear splitter off a 4L80E just as easily as with any other transmission.

[Colvindesign]

I don't think the main problem here is lift, but Drag.

The Chevelle (however beautiful it is) is not the most aerodynamic shape to come out of Detroit.

1. the front bumper being angled downward provides lift.

2. The entire grill and head light area being nearly flat creates drag, and a lot of it.

3. the entire underbody is drag.

4. The hood creates downforce.

5. The windshield creates drag.

The problem of flipping occurs more with cars with smooth underbodies that are close to the ground, with too soft suspension. As they hit a dip or bump, the car bottoms out and loses all the downforce created by the smooth underbody and if the front is any higher than the rear at any point, at high speed the amount of air that gets rammed under the car will lift it.

The problem is not Flipping at 200 mph, but being controllable at 200 mph. There are supercars that are scary to drive over 150. Then again there are high powered sedans that will cruise at 180 like they are doing 100.

Here is the thing, do you want to do 200 mph once and survive and be able to say "I built a car that did 200 mph" or do you want to build a car that can do 200 mph comfortably without scaring the hell out of you?

Honestly, at 200 mph with a full cage you might not make it if you hit a bump. At 200 mph with a full tube chassis and the proper safety equipment you still might not make it if you hit a dip. Chances are you will if you have the right ssafety euipment, but there is also a chance you might not. I am not saying you will flip, but if the car is unstable at speed, it will be uncontrollable. Also, the road you might know very well now, will make your car behave VERY differently at 200 mph. Plus any type of lane change if not done extremely gradually (about 6-10 seconds) will be fatal. Think about how far you will travel in 6 seconds at 200 mph.

180 mph is like the sound barrier for cars. It is mysterious, it changes things.

If it was no big deal, we wouldn't have speed limits. There is a reason people are telling you it is crazy, it is extremely dangerous. It's a route people have taken before and not come back from.

Why are people telling you to work on the aerodynamics of the car? To make it more stable and controllable. So you will be able to predict how the car will behave and you will come back.

[Colvindesign]

I have to KEEP mentioning my 1000 hp not to brag, but have you seen all the replys saying I dont have enough power!, I am simply stating I do, so don't keep talking about it and doubting 1000 hp could hit 200 mph. Talk about things I need to know about handling! Handling is the issue, not my power but people kept going on it.


At high speeds, handling is well beyond just the suspension. You need the aerodynamics to make the car stable. I am not talking about a full pro-mod body, but a front air dam, the right rake, a proper spoiler and perhaps work under the car.

I think the philosophy here is "if you are going to do it, do it right" therefore make the car stable as you possibly can at 200mph, instead of just making it barely able to reach 200.

I know for a fact that 1000 hp can get you to 200, but if the car is producing more lift at the front than downforce, your steering control will be extremely limited (think slushy roads) and your upgraded shocks will be useless because you will not be able to controll your car very well. This is avoided by aerodynamics, specifically downforce (air dam).

[nitrorocket]

When I put up this post, I wanted to know what people are doing to go 200 mph, being that it sounds almost impossible to hit the actual 200 mph mark, I don't mind. Even if I can only be stable at 180 mph, that cool with me, but I have a goal to be able to do this. So far, I feel real comfortable at 150. The car is real stable and feels smooth and quiet. It's gets to there reall fast and smooth and also comes down from that speed real fast and smooth. At this point it really does'nt feel like I am going that fast at all, that's why I thought 200 would'nt be to far away! You never know, maybe someday.

All the safety stuff is easy as far as finding out what I need, that will just depend on where I race the car. My big concentration right now is part selection to make the car stable.

Currently I am thinking, Hal adjustable shocks(unless I get first hand input otherwise), HR parts adjustable rear anti roll bar, Y rated Tires like the newer G-force BFG's, Gear vendors overdrive unit to handle full power(4L80 will not hold).

From there I will try a local track day at Road America and just start creeping up in speed and see how the car acts. I will be interessted to see ho the car will react to individual changes in front and rear ride height. I would think keeping the rear where it is and lowering the front a tad more would be benificial for front end lift.

Would sure be nice to have unlimited access to a wind tunnel and move ride heights around to see what works best without have to even take it out! Has anyone seen any tests on an actual Chevelle?????

[Stuart Adams]

Just the mere fact you asked your last question leads me to believe not many 71 Chevelles are racing at 200 mph. Good luck with your journey, I don't think this is the place for your answers. 200 mph and 71 Chevelle, sounds like oil and water to me.

Good luck with your project.

[nitrorocket]

Also, maybe a real good wax would help! :D

[syborg tt]

okay quick picture of a "Wicker" on the fender of the Cuda.

Jack explained to me that the car would be a plane without it.

http://www.sportmachines.com/albums/69-Baracuda/2006_07_01_048.jpg

[rocketman]

Nitrorocket,

I have 4l80e in my 37 ford with a 710 bbc.And it live's.I've made acouple 9's passes with and and have had it to 165 mph,(playin with a zo6)with no problem.plus I tend to punish the hell out of it.

Your TT ls1 doesn't doesn't make anymore hp than my 710 (1050hp),without nos,so if you have a 4l80e in there I wouldn't change it yet,I don't think a GV overdrive is that strong.

[nitrorocket]

Who built your trans???

[Damn True]

okay quick picture of a "Wicker" on the fender of the Cuda.

Jack explained to me that the car would be a plane without it.

http://www.sportmachines.com/albums/69-Baracuda/2006_07_01_048.jpg

I'm surprised they haven't pushed the tire out closer to the fender opening. Maybe they just haven't mounted the actual running gear yet.

That big sail at the trailing edge of the front fender looks like it might be a problem.

That thing still makes me tingle where I pee.

[fatlife]

I'm surprised they haven't pushed the tire out closer to the fender opening. Maybe they just haven't mounted the actual running gear yet.

That big sail at the trailing edge of the front fender looks like it might be a problem.

That thing still makes me tingle where I pee.
I believe the big sail thing is the "wicker" he keeps on talking about, and apparantely is a big deal not a problem

[syborg tt]

I believe the big sail thing is the "wicker" he keeps on talking about, and apparantely is a big deal not a problem


yep that is one of the wickers.

Also that is the location of the wheels.

I will also try to get some pictures of the Viper that Dave was working on for the Salt Flats with similar Wickers on the fenders and rear of the car. There goal was to go over 200mph but they blew up the engine on the Dyno the wick before.

PS - they put over 500lbs of lead weight in the front of the viper just to make sure it stayed on the ground.

[Damn True]

I believe the big sail thing is the "wicker" he keeps on talking about, and apparantely is a big deal not a problem


Actually, the wicker is on the leading edge of the fender opening. I was talking about the surface at the trailing edge, essentially the inside of the wheelhouse that looks like it is presented to the airflow. Might just be the angle of the photo.

[907rs]

okay quick picture of a "Wicker" on the fender of the Cuda.

Jack explained to me that the car would be a plane without it.

http://www.sportmachines.com/albums/69-Baracuda/2006_07_01_048.jpg

Jack Trepanier, right?
If so, damn, they've made a ton of changes to that car.

http://www.lateral-g.org/events/semashow2005/139.jpg

[syborg tt]

angle of the photograph

[907rs]

I was talking about the addition of the the nose and what appears to be sectioning of the fenders toward the leading edge of the hood.

[Damn True]

Bill, I think he was replying to my ponderings regarding the front wheel well opening.




That thing is so bitchin!

I'm sitting here wondering what I could stuff an Eco-tec into.

[907rs]

Nitro, that car would be a good one to check out "aero-wise" to get a general idea of what's required, as I believe they are shooting 200 as well. There are a few pics on the homepage.

[Elusive R]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0608/gallery.extremestunts/content.3.html


I just couldn't resist. But seriously, Nitro, you keep acting like you just need a rear anti-roll bar and some suspension work to get you there. Did you watch the 200 mph Mustang videos? Take note of just how fast everything is going by and how much steering correction is required in a vehicle specifically built for that kind of speed. The best brakes in the world won't save you if you get out of shape at that speed. If you follow NASCAR at all, the 'new guy' David Gilliland, who's been racing for years, needs to be cleared to race at Talladega, as do Indy rookies. That type of speed is serious business.

Ryan

[nitrorocket]

I have to start somewhere..... and I would think making a suspension that would be up to the task would be the first step in stability, correct?? That is why I am currently asking and talking about suspension. Then with experimentation I can figure out what type of aero mods may help any instability at a given speed I am trying to reach.

[syborg tt]

Okay i'll jump in and set up a game plan kinda, maybe we can add to this list as what people think and know you will need to blast your way to 200mph. It will be your decesion to add what you want and feel comfortable doing. I think i remember reading that you didn't want a cage. That would be your call but if you learn and know what is required it may help you with your build.

PS -- Even if you don't plan to put a cage in the car build it like you were going to just in case you change your mind down the road.

Step One - Chassis Modifications
1. Frame Bracing
2. Place to hang weight on the nose (seems to be on all of them)


Step Two - Front Susp Mods
1. Upgrade Control Arms (stock are flimsy at best)
2. Adjustable type shocks
3.

Step Three - Rear Susp Mods
1.

Step Four - Roll Cage & Saftey Mods
1.

Step Five - Interior Mods
1.

Step Six - Aerodynamic Mods
1.

You get my idea's - maybe someone with much more knowledge then me can help you out. I know there are many books on building land speed cars that you can use for reference. Maybe you can find some and update some of us on what they reccomend or require.

[nitrorocket]

What sucks is the only real way to know what changes are affecting what is to have some type of wind tunnel.

My testing would have to be at Road America down the straight. My buddies who race sport bikes are hitting about 165-170 down the straight. My car accelerates much faster then there bikes do (RC51 & R6) so I should be able to dable at least up to 180-190 there when I am setup and ready to start trial and error testing eventually.

[fatlife]

You know I've seen this before; this type of argument. The poster asks a very loaded question but thinks it is simple, then as people try to inform him of how serious it is, and in the process go overboard a little. Then the original poster gets a little defensive and starts losing grip on what he is talking about and digs himself a bigger ditch.

The truth lays in the middle. NO you are not going to hit 200mph in that chevelle of yours, its that simple, you obviously don't have the budget or knowledge "yet" to do it. But you could definetly improve what you have and set a goal higher than your already acheived 150. While everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and knock down your efforts, I have only seen 1 person here who really has any first hand knowledge of what it takes, although I am not discrediting a lot of the good info from the bench racers, as a lot of it is relevant also

The key here is to take it one step at a time, like all the good info that you have recieved, 200 is much different than 150. So let down your defenses, come back to planet earth, and set some realistic goals for yourself, and do take everyones advice and really think about the safetly equipment. A rollcage is minimum, along with some racing seats and harnesses, and a safety cut off switch.

And even though we know we all push it on the street, just keep it to yourself about your 150mph on ramp blasts. Of course everyone is a hipocrit and does similar things themselves(or maybe they don't, but I know I have) but its common sense not to announce it to the world, as if it is the thing to do.

Fastest I have ever done was on my bike 140 on the freeway, and that is a corrected speed, most bike speeods read high, but mine is corrected. I do not plan to ever push it on the street like that again, all that was running through my head was "what if". I have done 125 down the straight away at thunderhill and had to brake to about 75 to take turn 1 which is scary as hell, but the fast guys do about 150 down the straight and probably cary about 90 into turn 1 :willy:

So do your mild suspension upgrades and see where that gets you, and take it one step at a time. This is the key in any racing, NO ONE jumps in head first and shoots for the highest goal. So maybe your next question should be more along the lines, of how to get your car faster, smoother, and more stable, not a MPH goal.

[fatlife]

What sucks is the only real way to know what changes are affecting what is to have some type of wind tunnel.

My testing would have to be at Road America down the straight. My buddies who race sport bikes are hitting about 165-170 down the straight. My car accelerates much faster then there bikes do (RC51 & R6) so I should be able to dable at least up to 180-190 there when I am setup and ready to start trial and error testing eventually.
your buddies "could" be full of it, as I said, sportbikes speedometers from the factory are about off my %5-10, plus most race bikes are re-geared which makes the speedo even way farther off. Plus almost anyone who carries that kind of speed at the track is going to very good, and the very good riders don't have speedos or they tape them up, and most of them don't even look down to see how fast they are going. So judging how fast "you think" your car will go based on what they are telling you is not realistic. You really need to get on the track and see how fast maybe 160-170 really is. And the thing about it, is you don't get a second chance if something goes wrong at those speeds, and most likely your 35 year old car has some things wrong with it :thumbsup:

[nitrorocket]

Okay i'll jump in and set up a game plan kinda, maybe we can add to this list as what people think and know you will need to blast your way to 200mph. It will be your decesion to add what you want and feel comfortable doing. I think i remember reading that you didn't want a cage. That would be your call but if you learn and know what is required it may help you with your build.

PS -- Even if you don't plan to put a cage in the car build it like you were going to just in case you change your mind down the road.

Step One - Chassis Modifications
1. Frame Bracing
2. Place to hang weight on the nose (seems to be on all of them)


Step Two - Front Susp Mods
1. Upgrade Control Arms (stock are flimsy at best)
2. Adjustable type shocks
3.

Step Three - Rear Susp Mods
1.

Step Four - Roll Cage & Saftey Mods
1.

Step Five - Interior Mods
1.

Step Six - Aerodynamic Mods
1.

You get my idea's - maybe someone with much more knowledge then me can help you out. I know there are many books on building land speed cars that you can use for reference. Maybe you can find some and update some of us on what they reccomend or require.

What type frame bracing can you do to a Chevelle fram besides a cage, I have wanted to install some type of roll bar/cage but I have been a little to busy, with all the hours I work and my family, I nedd to find time to bend one up and weld one in, just have not decided how crazy I want to go. This upcoming winter I was planning on putting a rack in the car as well as make some front control arms. The rear is all tubular adjustable uppers and lowers with Hiem joints, is feels real solid and precise in the rear while driving.

[syborg tt]

What type frame bracing can you do to a Chevelle fram besides a cage, I have wanted to install some type of roll bar/cage but I have been a little to busy, with all the hours I work and my family, I nedd to find time to bend one up and weld one in, just have not decided how crazy I want to go. This upcoming winter I was planning on putting a rack in the car as well as make some front control arms. The rear is all tubular adjustable uppers and lowers with Hiem joints, is feels real solid and precise in the rear while driving.


It's been a long time since i've been under a chevelle. You can look at the bracing and boxing we did on my project to stiffen up the chast to prevent it from twisting.

As far as a cage is concerned that is something that you are going to need to look at a rule book and build it to the requirements. I have a picture of a 24 point cage that was installed in a lotus (yep a lotus) to meet the rules at the salt flats. It was one of the most insane cages i have ever seen. There were bars everywhere and to everypoint you could think of.

Personally i would start with a good 12 point cage which would allow you to run your car at the Grove which would allow you to really see what your car would do.

PS - I have a ticket from my younger years 156mph in a 72 Cutlass Convert. Looking back it was pretty dumb but that is the fastest i have ever gone and i was young back then and didn't have kids oh yea and a wife.

[Damn True]

Step One - Chassis Modifications
1. Frame Bracing
2. Place to hang weight on the nose (seems to be on all of them)


Step Two - Front Susp Mods
1. Upgrade Control Arms (stock are flimsy at best)
2. Adjustable type shocks
3.

Step Three - Rear Susp Mods
1.

Step Four - Roll Cage & Saftey Mods
1.

Step Five - Interior Mods
1.

Step Six - Aerodynamic Mods
1.



Honestly, step four really ought to be step one.

[67PTCAMARO]

I could not read all the way to the end but I like to remind you guys that Big Red was crashed with the stock chassis. Then they went to custom chassis to do the 220

[Stuart Adams]

Step One. Get a ski mask and hit the bank, to make your Chevelle race at 200 mph, you'll need a few stacks of hundreds!!

[Damn True]

Step One. Get a ski mask and hit the bank, to make your Chevelle race at 200 mph, you'll need a few stacks of hundreds!!


:rofl: :rofl: Stuart, you owe me a keyboard. This one is full of diet coke now. :rofl: :rofl:

BTW, if you have time when you are at the bank grab some for me too!

[Musclerodz]

http://www.radrides.com/images/Cuda2M.jpg This was yesterday at Bonneville. Ran 236 on its trial run and set the short track record for its class. This is the only safe way to go 200+ mph IMO.

Mike

[nitrorocket]

Something kind of neat... This car goes 0-200 mph in 1 mile from a dead stop!

We have the same motor setup, but I am pushing about 50-75 more hp then him at the time of this video so I definetly know I have the power at least :D , I wonder what the drag difference is between our cars??

His car also does 150 mph in the quarter mile, It is amazing how it took 3/4 of a mile more jsut for 50 mph! That last 50 is sure a big difference!

It did this just as it sits in this picture. I need to put a camaro front clip on my car! :D

http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/intmd8_199.wmv

[camcojb]

Something kind of neat... This car goes 0-200 mph in 1 mile from a dead stop!

We have the same motor setup, but I am pushing about 50-75 more hp then him at the time of this video so I definetly know I have the power at least :D , I wonder what the drag difference is between our cars??

His car also does 150 mph in the quarter mile, It is amazing how it took 3/4 of a mile more jsut for 50 mph! That last 50 is sure a big difference!

It did this just as it sits in this picture. I need to put a camaro front clip on my car! :D

http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/intmd8_199.wmv

Yep, cool car. The next 50 mph is a big difference. That car is much better than yours aero-wise. Also much smaller grill area. I think they go 160+ with a stock 325 hp small block. Very good car to start with for higher speeds.

Jody

[Stuart Adams]

I can't believe that car goes 200 mph, really.

[mazspeed]

That car sure didn't look like it was going close to 199mph. The other videos that XV showed looked like it was going that fast, this did not. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Damn True]

We have the same motor setup, but I am pushing about 50-75 more hp then him at the time of this video so I definetly know I have the power at least :D , I wonder what the drag difference is between our cars??


http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/intmd8_199.wmv


Camaro Cd - .34, frontal area - 21.6sq'
Chevelle Cd - .423, frontal area - 25.5sq'

Difference - HUGE

Now, take those numbers and work the math in the links I provided previously.

[fatlife]

That car sure didn't look like it was going close to 199mph. The other videos that XV showed looked like it was going that fast, this did not. Maybe I'm wrong.
+1, could be wrong but that sure didn't look like 200 to me, but considering I've never gone that fast I sure could be wrong

[mazspeed]

+1, could be wrong but that sure didn't look like 200 to me, but considering I've never gone that fast I sure could be wrong

Yeah that looks to be a far cry slower then these.

Video 1 (http://www.lateral-g.org/movies/temp/192MPH.mpg)

Video 2 (http://www.lateral-g.org/movies/temp/200MPH.mpg)

Video 3 (http://www.lateral-g.org/movies/temp/200MPHShort.mpg)

[dqhemi]

What sucks is the only real way to know what changes are affecting what is to have some type of wind tunnel.

My testing would have to be at Road America down the straight. My buddies who race sport bikes are hitting about 165-170 down the straight. My car accelerates much faster then there bikes do (RC51 & R6) so I should be able to dable at least up to 180-190 there when I am setup and ready to start trial and error testing eventually.

You don't need a wind tunnel to figure out what to do.

A typical road course will not be a good place to test.
Your car better be set up right if you plan on going anywhere near that fast on a road course as the demands are completely different than for a high speed run. If you haven't been on a road course, the last thing you want there will be an overpowered car. 1,000 HP will not be useable on a road course. Also, you're cooling problems will be even more pronounced, you will need cooling ducts for your brakes there and more.

Best place to test and work things out is the Open Road Races. They won't let you run over 160 as a newbie anyway, so you're looking at multiple races for many reasons.

People don't realize the requirements for each of these are very different:

- A typical road course
- Open road racing (in the Unlimited Division)
- Bonneville/Maxton high speed runs over short distance

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[dqhemi]

yep that is one of the wickers.

Also that is the location of the wheels.

I will also try to get some pictures of the Viper that Dave was working on for the Salt Flats with similar Wickers on the fenders and rear of the car. There goal was to go over 200mph but they blew up the engine on the Dyno the wick before.

PS - they put over 500lbs of lead weight in the front of the viper just to make sure it stayed on the ground.

Putting weight in the front end just means the aero is not sorted out. Maybe within the rules of their class they cannot sort it out? I've raced against 205-210 MPH Vipers, but they ran different front ends that were designed to create downforce.

The term wickers I always thought was for strips added to the trailing edge of wings used for fine tuning, also known as 'Gurney Flaps'. On the Cuda, my guess is those pieces are doing more for eliminating underhood pressure (which creates lift) than creating downforce directly. From the picture, it doesn't look like they did much to manage the internal aerodynamics of the car - meaning managing the airflow that comes into the engine compartment and getting it back out. Can't tell from the one pic.

That may be why they needed the add-ons to the fenders.

If a car has lot's of lift on the front, a splitter is one of the few free lunches in creating downforce at the front end of a car and it is tuneable. It's also quite common to see designs that manage the airflow at the front end that use curved surfaces on the inlet side - which is basically a mini inverted wing surface - to accelerate the airflow and create downforce. That isn't easily tuneable, but could be calculated.

It's been a while since I looked at an SCTA rule book, but I do remember there were quite a few things they didn't allow, such as body mounted wings. They may be working within the constraints of the rules.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[nitrorocket]

When I start road racing, I wil most likely lower the power to only 5 or 600 hp to allow me to get used to what I might encounter. I can always turn the power back up to what I need if I need more.

Talking with the guy in the Red Camaro, he made it sound like 200 was nothing and it drove rock solid with no instability whatsoever!!

He runs a 6 speed trans with a twin turbo LS1. He said the car would have gone more MPH but the gearing was way off, he went through the 1 mile mark at 7000 rpm in 5th gear and he makes peak power at 6100 rpm. I though that was funny because that is where I make peak power also!

His car may not seem like it wa going so fast because how quick the car is. A 9 second car accelerates pretty quick! Alot of cars might take 2 miles to get that speed.

It made me a little more optimistic seeing a another car make it look so easy, now at least I have some hope! :)

[dqhemi]

Camaro Cd - .34, frontal area - 21.6sq'
Chevelle Cd - .423, frontal area - 25.5sq'

Difference - HUGE

Now, take those numbers and work the math in the links I provided previously.

Here's a simplified formula I used to get rough numbers of HP requirements. Works best with real numbers for HP and Top speed and back into the CD and FA, then solve for HP requirements for any given speed. Meaning, if you top end the car, and have real dyno numbers, you can get a combined value for CD and FA for your exact car. Just takes some simple reworking of the formula.

HP = (CD * FA * V^3) / 150,000

If you have your top speed and HP then: CD * FA = (HP * 150,000) / V^3

With the numbers above to go 200 MPH w/ each requires:

391.68 = (.34 * 21.6 * 200^3) / 150,000
575.28 = (.423 * 25.5 * 200^3) / 150,000

This is a simplified formula and doesn't allow for rolling resistance and is probably more indicative of RWHP than at the crank.

If I were tackling the speed aspect, I'd start by trying to reduce the drag and frontal area. Dropping the car helps on the latter. Lots of ways to work on the former.

Contrary to what some of you are saying, I don't see any reason that car couldn't be made to run that fast reliably and with stability. That doesn't mean just anyone could do it - reliably and safely. It also doesn't mean it would be easy.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[dqhemi]

Talking with the guy in the Red Camaro, he made it sound like 200 was nothing and it drove rock solid with no instability whatsoever!!


And he drove at that speed for how long, over what kind of road conditions, carried it through what kind of turns? Hitting it in a straight line and then just lifting is not a good proxy for stability. Unless the car is being built for a 1 mile run and that's it.

Not sure what you are trying to do - Maxton or Open Road Race.

Totally different animals.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

[nitrorocket]

I would like to road race, but not at 200 mph, just whatever the car and I am comfortable with. I also would like to hit 200 just to accomplish that. I am sure like he did, it will not be too hard. I am guessing from all the info that I have recieved, My car will be more comfortable at road racing at speeds of around 150 mph or so. Only time will tell I guess? :(

I am excited from all the ideas!

[rocketman]

Who built your trans???


I guy up here that does them in his basement,for alittle extra cash,his a retired guy thats in no hurry.

But a Hughes or tranmission center have some bulletproof 4l80e.

[Stuart Adams]

The car looks fun to drive the way it is. Don't try and make some aerodynamic missle out of it. Have fun racing it the way it is. Final Answer.

[hiwayman]

hey down in new zealand our land speed record was set by a porsche at 348kperhr the reported cost of the car was close to a million kiwi dollars after it crashed at 350ks an hour not much the crash was on tv the dude died twice on the way to hospital he living now though .

[Steve Chryssos]

.......the dude died twice on the way to hospital he living now though .

I hate it when that happens.

[Beegs]

Originally Posted by hiwayman
.......the dude died twice on the way to hospital he living now though .



I hate it when that happens.


Oh man.... my wife just yelled down to me: "What the hell is so funny?" I love it! :rofl:

[nitrorocket]

:rofl:

[markss28]

I say build the suspension, get some safety stuff in your car, pray that eveything is going to be OK and do it. I would have everything checked atleast 2 weeks prior to make sure everything is up par. you are going to need a wing for sure. Also find a track that is ling enough to do this and make sure you have alot of assistance in case of emergency. Gear the right, get a big rear wing and a front spoiler. If you have wind sheild wipers and anything that is loose on the car take off. Make a video and take lots of pics.

May God bless you on your trip to the 200mph club, and may he keep you safe all the days of your life. In Jesus Name.

[fatlife]

Amen and hallelujah :hail:

[Beegs]

I am not so sure this is high on Jesus' priority list. Then again I have not been to church in 15 years so what do I know. :lol:

[rocketman]

I did a 218 blast this morning.

[syborg tt]

I did a 218 blast this morning.


tell us more and where

[nitrorocket]

In his 89 Sentra 5 speed in the back alley! Oh ya, 93 octane! ;)

[syborg tt]

In his 89 Sentra 5 speed in the back alley! Oh ya, 93 octane! ;)


Did you see Fryburger at Hot Rod mag went 260 in there Camaro

[Damn True]

That car is decidedly un-stock.

BTW, he also blew a tire (a race tire, not a street tire) at just under 200mph, spun and went backwards across the salt at roughly 175 mph before the chute fully deployed and got the car weather vaned into the right direction.

[rocketman]

tell us more and where

Dragstrip,shacking down a friends new pro mod.

[fatlife]

So according to this post you made elsewheres the fastest the car will do as it sits like you said earlier is 138mph, yet you said at the begining of the thread you do 150mph on a regular basis? If it was bouncing off the rev limiter at the track at the top end, and you never encountered that before, than that woudl mean you probably only were hitting like 125mph before.

"I finally made a pass at the strip with my twin turbo 1000 hp Chevelle. Good news is nothing broke, bad news is that I ran out of gear. I made 2 passes with only 10 psi and wend 10.80 @ 130 even on both passes. Went through the traps at
I reset the boost up to 18 psi and ran out of gear, I had it set to 10 psi in 1st gear, 12 psi in second, and 18 psi in 3rd.
Due to a bad launch and having to pedal it the pass was pretty bad. I launched with a 1.90 60', my 1/8 mile was a 7.0@112, and my quarter was 10.55@ 138.
1.9 seconds before I tripped the clocks, I ran out of gear and was on the rev limiter at 7000 rpm till I let off right before I finished. The car sounded like it had gunshots coming out the tail pipes and was blowing flames out the tailpipes also! I luckily have it on video so I was able to time exactly when I first hit the rev limiter to when I actually finished the pass.
I was pretty dissapointed that I did not get to see how much power the car put to the ground by my trap speed.

I need to get some 3.08 gears for my 3 series carrier and some new tires. I have 3.42's now but did not count for converter efficiency. I also am trying new tires seeing that I has to try to keep the car straight the entire pass!

Anyone need some 3.42's!!"

[3kidsnotime]

To see 200 mph in your car would be great, There are going to be alot more factors involved than most think, I would like to see a ls series engine in a heavy car do it, As far as suspension is involved I cant give any advise other than just be safe, On a short burst such as a fast drag race car a quick 60ft and big mph is not that hard but it is like hitting a brick wall after a point every thing hits 100% percent load factor, Have you run your car at 100% load factor to see what it will actually do. Get in and run it as hard as it will and dont lift final gear and 100% throttle it will eventually lay over then it is getiing ready to crap the bed but get an idea what kind of power you have, the duty cycle of the engine will be high go dry sump a oe style oiling system will never hold at a sustained rpm, I dont know what kind of tracks you have in your area but if you have one where you can open it up run it like your going to kill it, it will run hard to a mph then slowly fall off to another point then your at your load factor, every step after that is a whole new project. Fastest I have run is 226 land Wendover 96 158 H2o Firebird 01

[Scotch]

Hmm. Lots of emotions and facts here. Odd mix...like good booze mixed with bad coffee...I might not love it, but I'll still drink it all in.

Anyway...

I'm building my '65 GTO for ORR. I also have 1,100 hp capability on squeeze. I'm also going 4L80E.

I have a Schwartz chassis though - and it'll get full monkey bars before I ever go fast in it.

The trick is to creep up on it. That's why Silver State and the other successful ORRs work. They give you a chance to creep up on it. I mean, I'd love to touch 200 in my GTO someday too, but you can bet you sweet intercooler I'll be starting at 130, then 140, then 150, etc. Not just touching on these speeds in straightline bursts, but actually maintaining them for a time (like 4-6 minutes) and seeing what the car (and I) feel like 'up there'.

If you're thinking purely straightline, that changes things. Like the High Noon Shootout or Z2Z - if you're wanting to just lay the hammer down and run WOT, that's one form of going after 200. But actually driving a course (be it a road race course or open road course) is a different animal.

Yes, 200 is 200. But the need to manueuver at that speed versus simply trying to maintain a straight line offers a completely different dynamic.

FYI - I'll be out there once my stuff is ready. I hope to see you out there too.

Going after the straightline deal and then backing it up with a 140-150-ish average in the road race portion of the event is plenty respectable. Personally, I don't feel the need to want to average 200-plus in the unlimited class at Silver State. But I'd love to touch 200 in the High Noon Shootout or Z2Z. If I can get a '65 GTO to average 150 in the road race and be competitive in the straightline events, I'll be satisfied with the car.

Yes, I'm investigating aero for mine as well. It will have an adjustable splitter up front and a wing on the rear. It will have side skirts and leading edge mods. It will have headlight covers and the grille will be covered for racing. But, it will also be easily converted back to street use.

I think we're looking at similar goals. Get a full rollcage and a fuel cell installed.

~SP~

[ironworks]

,although I have not tried to really hold that speed for any period of time yet (on ramps are not long enough).

I am sure it will be a slow transition to make it a road race car, but I luckily already have most the mechanical parts I need.

I still need to decide on shocks and rear anti-roll bar yet, I also want to switvh over to the 4L80E trans.

Thanks for all the input, but lets stop arguing about the power, I easily have enough, don't forget I can add som high octane and turn it up to 1200+ hp at the touch of a button, so the power is no concern whatsoever :D .


First of all I think you should just find longer on ramp, that sounds like a safe place to do you time trials I mean heack your only tring to merge on with a bunch of jackasses going half your speed. Brillant

You know what if you put COP shocks and COP brakes you cab be as safe as you need. One more thing the anti roll bar is only needed if your gonna roll the car and crashing is only for people you don't know how to drive.

Seriously I have seen almost 20 pages of solid advice from guys trying to be nice and answer your question with solid advice and all you want to do is strut around the garage and tell us how you have 1000 hp car that can probaly do this and do that, then shut up and do it. If I understand correctly you don't even have a roll bar in the car, So unless things are different in Michigan I think they have safety rules and I doubt they would let you do all these speeds TWICE with out one.

The pursuit of spped is what started hot rodding, But it sure is alot harder to get there without any advise from those who have tried and learned from their mistakes. GOoD LUCK WITH 200mph

[fatlife]

guys, this thread is a little old, nitrorocket has "somewhat" come to his senses since making this post. I just drug it back up because I saw such conflicting evidence just recently on another site, where he states he was hitting the revlimiter at 138mph on the drag strip, and numerous times in this post he says how he has hit 150mph on a regular basis. which really doesn't sound possible if he hits the revlimiter at 138. Anyway I was just being a punk and messing with him by posting it up :lol: :P

[camcojb]

guys, this thread is a little old, nitrorocket has "somewhat" come to his senses since making this post. I just drug it back up because I saw such conflicting evidence just recently on another site, where he states he was hitting the revlimiter at 138mph on the drag strip, and numerous times in this post he says how he has hit 150mph on a regular basis. which really doesn't sound possible if he hits the revlimiter at 138. Anyway I was just being a punk and messing with him by posting it up :lol: :P



Yeah, thanks a lot!!!! :D

[fatlife]

:D :unibrow: trying to overthrow Steve's throne for highest post count on a single thread :lol:

[ironworks]

i got to page 6 before realizing that this sucker was 18 pages long but I had already stepped in the fire fight which is why I edited the post.

Rodger

[nitrorocket]

Hey, I was'nt trying to BS. I would hope you would know that. That is not what I am about. :mad: Mathematically I thought I was doing 150 off the rev limiter during my blasts. My factory speedo only goes to 120, so anything over that I have to read from the tach. Now that I have 3.08's, I can.

Why are you always picking on me. How was I supposed to know I had 9% converter slip!:(

I will tell you though! What a ride, this thing was sideways all the way down the track! What a blast! I can't wait to go back next week with the boost turned up! Hopefully I get some real times with the new gears, tires, and 2-step.

I have given up on 200 mph untill I can afford a gearvendors obviously. But I am still going do some major track day action next year! At least that lasts longer then a short 1/4 mile.


Dang this is an old post! :faint:


guys, this thread is a little old, nitrorocket has "somewhat" come to his senses since making this post. I just drug it back up because I saw such conflicting evidence just recently on another site, where he states he was hitting the revlimiter at 138mph on the drag strip, and numerous times in this post he says how he has hit 150mph on a regular basis. which really doesn't sound possible if he hits the revlimiter at 138. Anyway I was just being a punk and messing with him by posting it up :lol: :P

[fatlife]

I know man, sorry for picking on you, but you just make it so easy! :D :P

So the 3:08's are already installed?

[nitrorocket]

Long story short, I traded another guy that had 3.08's even up for my 3.42's, great for both of us. He is shipping them and I should see them hopefully by monday or so. It will take me a night to install them along with the 2 step, and then hopefully I am back to the track for another "good" run. :)

[Derek69SS]

Scott, what track do you run? I know Rock Falls would never let you, they're sticklers for NHRA rules... they'd make you wear a helmet, and inspect every rule that applied if you wanted to make a pass in a school-bus :D

[Scotch]

Scott, what track do you run? I know Rock Falls would never let you, they're sticklers for NHRA rules... they'd make you wear a helmet, and inspect every rule that applied if you wanted to make a pass in a school-bus :D


I haven't run out here yet. I made all my passes on the West Coast.

I don't have any problem with the NHRA rulebook, though. I build my stuff to comply with it and don't have problems. If I need to upgrade equipment to go faster, I'll do it.

Most of the time, if it's the first time you've been tech inspected and there's an issue, they'll let you go with the understanding the issue is resoved before your next visit. I'm fine with this, and when you return, be sure to remind the inspector what the issue was and point out how you've resoved it. It lets them know what kind of person you are, and has made life easier for me as a journalist when building a relationship with a track.

I have every intention of running my wagon at the local track(s) next year. I hope we could go together Derek- it'd be cool.

~SP~