"The New Face Of Musclecars" as Proclaimed by Hot Rod Magazine!

[vintageracer]

I just received my latest issue of Hot Rod Magazine with a Roadster Shop Camaro build and a Timeless Kustoms Mustang build featured on the cover with the pronouncement "The New Face of Musclecars"!

I looked at both cars and read the articles associated with both and came away asking myself IF this IS the "The New Face of Musclecars" maybe it's truly is time to buy a new late model Musclecar!

First let me state that both cars have FANTASTIC craftsmanship and attention to detail. I am sure the builders are proud of their work and they should be.

Having said that my first reaction to looking at the pictures of the Roadster Shop Camaro was "Somebody decided they wanted to make a Late Model Challenger out of a 1969 Camaro"! That's what the RS Camaro looks like to ME! Look at the front-end & lower valence, the rear-end & tailights and the mirrors!

My first reaction to the Timeless Kustoms Mustang was that somebody hung a set of 4WD flares and a snow plow on the front of a 65 Mustang! Well done? Absolutely however that still does not change my opinion of what it looks like.

In each of the articles describing the cars Hot Rod references the Pro-Touring influence. Is this what Pro-Touring and the "Musclecar" hobby has come to? Kinda reminds me of the Pastel color & Tweed Interior craze in Street Rods during the 1990's. It was Kool for awhile and then the cars that followed that trend passed being out date and went straight to UGLY!

In the beginning of PT we had the iconic Camaro's designed, engineered and built by Mark Stielow. The combination of late model driving technology in an old American 1969 Camaro. The builds were ALL about the engine, suspension and modern day performance applied to a 1969 Camaro. His cars were NOT catalog cars where you purchased pre-engineered suspension and engine components. His cars engineered and inspired the parts that are NOW only a click away today on the internet. Body Mods? On Mark's cars there are NONE unless you call removing emblems a mod! We also got the "Name Thing" going for a car. Gotta have a name or your car is just a car. Each of Mark's newest builds raised the bar for performance, engineering and handling. All the while the Camaro body on his cars "Remained the Same" and the paint was a solid color.

Next came all the interior mods in the form of fancy dash's, door panels, seats and consoles. All of a sudden you had to have an "Interior" to be noticed. Now it's body modifications. Apparently the wilder the better.

Today with the all performance parts, suspension parts and interior parts just click away all that's left to modify and "Get Noticed" is the body. So let's see how outrageous we can get to be noticed. All you have do is look at the SEMA 2016 cars/trucks to see this is certainly true!

To me one of the finest builds in our hobby was built over 10 years ago by Johnson's Hot Rod Shop for Bob Johnson. Remember the G Force Cuda? Back in the day (2005 I think) while we were on the Hot Rod Power Tour it was late one night in Georgia when Bob, myself and Bill Howell were having a late night dinner at Applebee's when Bob said the only stock body part on the car was the trunk-lid. The car looked FANTASTIC with NOTHING cartoonish or out of place about the car yet Hot Wheels thought enough of the car to make a Hot Wheels version of the car. You knew the G Force Cuda body was modified but HOW? NOW it seems to ME that the more body mods, flares, scoops, nips, tucks you can do to the body WITHOUT regard to good design, style and proportion the better.

If this truly is "The New Face Of Musclecars" as Proclaimed by Hot Rod Magazine I'm out! Hell ya I am old HOWEVER I have always embraced "Change" as "Change" is going to happen with or without me so I might as well be on the front-end and benefit from "Change" rather than be a VICTIM of "Change".

In this situation I will do neither. I will not benefit from the "The New Face Of Musclecars" as Proclaimed by Hot Rod Magazine as I sure as Hell do not want one and therefore I will not be a Victim of "Change" when once again styles and preferences change.

2 Weeks ago I walked through our local "Cars & Coffee". 1000 cars and 1 Airstream trailer were there. I was more interested in the Airstream than any of the cars/trucks that were there. Times Change, Wants Change, Desires Change and Styles Change.

It is my Hope and Desire that this excess of "Reimagined Sheetmetal" as quoted by Hot Rod Magazine will take it's short time in the spotlight and join the Pastel Colored Street Rods of the 1990's as a discussion of "What the Hell were We Thinking When We Thought That Was Kool Way Back Then"!

Just MY Opinion!

What do Ya'll think?

[LateralJeaz]

Like it or not, extensive body mods are probably here to stay. Yes it's hard to get it right and easy to make it look funky, and I also agree that those two cars in particular have some weird looking areas that are not my favorite. But for everything out there that doesn't look quite right to me, I can think of another car thats been extensively body modded yet feels spot on visually. Ring Brothers, Ironworks, Foose, the Roadster Shop; all these guys have displayed heavily body modded cars at sema in the past five years that look amazing imo. In the end I think its important to take it all in context and understand that most of these cars are built to somewhat customer specs and personal preferences. If hot rod mag loves it, more power to these builders, but surely it's mostly about the customer satisfaction, not journalists, and not ours.

[ironworks]

I had a similar thought last week when I read the article. Mine was a bit more positive. I think they meant that the heavy mods you have seen on, lets say street rods are coming around to the muscle cars. This hobby is really a contest of who can out do the other. SO the laundry list of mods needs to get longer and longer for some people to compete. Or think that is what they have to do to compete.

Our mentality is to not try and really mess up what ever made the original design so popular when some one modifies a certain model car. So people can't transition a rendering to reality, Some people start with an ugly concept, some people just have bad taste.

But at the end of every day, different styles are what make the world go round. There is a girl for every guy and an ass for every seat. Just look at some ugly guy or gal and think some where there is some one who is excited to come home to that ugly mug. Cars are the same way. As long as the customer is happy and its not your friends car you have to act like their car is so cool, when its not.

Plus every builder has a different style and most customers are drawn to that build for some reason. If they are local its probably the fact they do quality work and if they are long distance its usually because they have seen a few cars that build has done and they want some thing with that style.


But good Lord Almight there are some funky looking cars that get built. I wish I could post some of the stuff my friends have txt or PM'ed me on social media over the years.

[JB400]

Personally, I do think shops like RS over due it, and forget what parts of each car make it timeless. However, if they didn't change it, people would get tired of looking at all the same thing.

This coming from the guy that got ripped on because I think RS ruined the looks of the Sliced Charger (sliced too much in my opinion), the 68 looks better, but not by much. A Charger isn't a Camaro.

[DBasher]

I haven't read the article but I did get to see both cars at SEMA and spend sometime looking them over....hardly the "New face of musclecars". I saw more classics with subtle upgrades to the body, or mods that you didn't notice right off because they just looked right. Was the over the top, look at me cars there? Of course, it's SEMA.

Like mentioned in another thread, the new norm is the fit and finish, attention to detail and the quality of materials used throughout. Think about the Ironworks Chevelle from a few years ago, basic and people loved it. Or the RB widened Mustang, subtle to most with over the top attention to detail.

Next month Hot Rod magazine will put a 50's car on the cover (another SEMA car) with another headline...just to get people talking.
:flag2: :cheers:

[Zspoiler]

In some ways its sort of like George Barris era and the later IMSA Race cars with a modern twist.Some people like it and some don`t

[ilikeike]

Every couple of decades,there has to be a Corvette Summer




http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac49/dsmallen/7cde193f24bafecc80fad2276ea55efd_zpsbf89ufrc.jpg (http://s884.photobucket.com/user/dsmallen/media/7cde193f24bafecc80fad2276ea55efd_zpsbf89ufrc.jpg.h tml)

[NOT A TA]

I feel bad for the people who put in all the research, time, money, and effort into builds that don't quite "hit the mark" visually. Often it appears the basic design concepts used in the original design are ignored.

In the case of the cover cars note that the modified areas are done with a more straight line angular appearance with sharper body lines and creases than the original car was. As an example look at the Mustang above and below the front bumper. The original oval grill, round headlights, and softer body line curves contrasts with the rocket bunny looking air dam section below the bumper.

Another thing (which I try to remind myself of) is that many of us have been accustomed to seeing the same basic shape since the cars were new. Sure there's been engines sticking out of hoods, jacked up rears with big little's, lowered, bigger diameter wheels with low pro tires, and other modifications but the basic cars have been essentially the same. So when we see one with body modifications our mind tells us it doesn't look quite right. Whenever I see a car with body mods I try to look at it and think to myself "If I didn't expect the car to look as it did stock would I like the way this one looks?"

[ironworks]

I feel bad for the people who put in all the research, time, money, and effort into builds that don't quite "hit the mark" visually. It often it appears the basic design concepts used in the original design are ignored.

In the case of the cover cars note that the modified areas are done with a more straight line angular appearance with sharper body lines and creases than the original car was. As an example look at the Mustang above and below the front bumper. The original oval grill, round headlights, and softer body line curves contrasts with the rocket bunny looking air dam section below the bumper.

Another thing (which I try to remind myself of) is that many of us have been accustomed to seeing the same basic shape since the cars were new. Sure there's been engines sticking out of hoods, jacked up rears with big little's, lowered, bigger diameter wheels with low pro tires, and other modifications but the basic cars have been essentially the same. So when we see one with body modifications our mind tells us it doesn't look quite right. Whenever I see a car with body mods I try to look at it and think to myself "If I didn't expect the car to look as it did stock would I like the way this one looks?"

That is the trick is to not ruin those original styling point every one knows. But still improve on the car.

[LateralJeaz]

This is a really a great conversation and a great place to have it. I see a few cool points being made here. First off let's just get it out of the way right now, I LOVE the ever rising tide of the custom bodywork trend. And when someone gets it right, these cars seem to truly represent an evolution of pro touring and resto modding. Will they go out of style eventually? Maybe. The real answer to that is who knows. Hell in 30 years we may be riding in little automated flying drones. But imo the best ones being pumped out right now will never fall out of ascetic favor. They will most likely always have their place in time as the best of an era and will be viewed largely as successful visual concepts for decades to come. And even though most all have a ton of expensive tech thrown at them that obviously makes them worth more by default, if the styling is on point, it adds to the value, now, and over time. Yes old muscle cars look great in stock form sitting lower on a modern sized set of rollers. No one here would dispute that I think. But man when someone truly nails some great looking custom body mods, and especially incorporates functionality as has been the trend much as of late, I go nuts. Also, Someone said modern twist. That resonates with me in the sense that the winning designs in the biz mostly all have significant modern cues. They're starting to look more like amg benz's, Bentley, Ferraris, lambos, ford gt's, etc..with little roof depressions, air pass through's, diffusers, canards and splitters. I know that Overkill will always be overkill. But When it looks right, and especially when it's something functional, I just love it. I know some don't, however I truly think that's where it's headed for the foreseeable future. Deal with it:mock: lol

[Build-It-Break-it]

I think completely changing what makes these cars desirable in the first place takes away from why they where sought after to begin with.

Adding slight details to clean up things or better fit and finish I get, but not completely reinventing the car.

If a modern car "look" is what your after Id buy a new car. If you want the drive ability of a new car hidden under the hood,body,etc I get completely.

I think "the new face of muscle cars" is what's "cool" now but won't grab much positive attention 10 years from now.

How many people do you still see wearing fanny packs now a days? :EmoteClueless: those where cool right?

[LateralJeaz]

How many people do you still see wearing fanny packs now a days? :EmoteClueless: those where cool right?

Umm....no they weren't. Lol.

[TheJDMan]

Like was stated on PT, these custom cars will be irrelevant in 10 years. They are only "The New Face of Muscle Cars" until the next magazine cover comes out. On the other hand a stock body car will still be relevant years from now.

[214Chevy]

I don't know exactly how much money you have to have in a slush fund to be able to build a $400k plus car, but I do know it's a butt load. The thing is, the people that have the money to build a half of a million dollar car doesn't even look at it from a stylish point and don't care what the car will look like 5 years from now because they'll have found something else to spend their money on, be it another car, a boat, etc. If the car they built today becomes whack and outdated, they'll just build one of the current date and time. They build these cars for the oooh-ahhh factor and to have people like you and I standing around it at all of the car shows drooling and taking pics. Also, they like to be different just like the uber rich guy who buys a $2 million Bughatti. Why do you think these high dollar builds get built, then the builder still has possession of the car for the first year or so touring all around the country to all of the big shows...Good Guys, SEMA, Detroit Autorama, etc and then the owner finally takes possession of the car, puts about 1,000 miles or less on the car and then it's suddenly for sale for about $100k-$150 less than what he built it for?

[preston]

Good points 214Chevelle about the actual mentality of these builders.

I also find myself much more drawn to stock "resto" cars that used to bore me. Now its the overdone pro-tour cars that bore me unless they are truly standout. I like to see a little chrome, a little gap, some emblems, a little OEM even when the car is heavily modified.

IMO while I'm still glad cars like Inferno exist, they are overdone and too modern for me. While I have a lot of respect for the Ring Brothers for examples, I find their show cars to be way over knick knacked and almost incoherent in their styling.

For example my '68 Mustang is lowered to the ground on a custom chassis and has 18" wheels. It was wide bodied 4" through the character lines and even Mustang guys at the shows are not usually able to point it out. The flares are tasteful and the styling mimics the Shelby front end. The drip rails are shaved, but I still have chrome and emblems on the car. No one is going to mistake it for a stock '68 Mustang but there is no styling wackiness and even the aforementioned 18" wheels are kind of a low key generic CCW style that doesn't look overly modern. I'm starting to have 2nd thoughs on the wildly louvered hood because that one radical piece kind of undoes the other points.

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

I think everybody should just build whatever they think is cool. There will be those that agree with your version of cool and those that don't but trends will always come and go and life is too short to waste time caring what everyone else thinks.

:flag2:
:military:

[DOOM]

[QUOTE=OBeer-WAN-Kenobi;660837]I think everybody should just build whatever they think is cool. There will be those that agree with your version of cool and those that don't but trends will always come and go and life is too short to waste time caring what everyone else thinks.

:flag2:
:military:[/QUOTE\

That sums it up right there!

[LateralJeaz]

Like was stated on PT, these custom cars will be irrelevant in 10 years. They are only "The New Face of Muscle Cars" until the next magazine cover comes out. On the other hand a stock body car will still be relevant years from now.


Oh well excuse me...if pt said it, it's clearly gospel.


I tried and tried to resist but I'm a bit of a bear poker by nature and simply couldn't do it. On behalf of some of the biggest baddest shops in the nation who have poured their hearts and souls into designing some of these cars, and the guys who paid the biggest of bucks to have them built, I'd just like to say...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: lol. Sure some are a little weird looking. But imo some are revolutionary. In this great nation of ours We're all entitled to our opinion, and I somewhat respectfully disagree with yours. :action-smiley-027:

[214Chevy]

Personally, me...I like the look of customized cars. Even if it means it may be out of style 10 years from now. I love it. Everything we have from the clothes we wear, to our hairstyles, the curtains/furniture in our houses, etc has a "time factor" so to speak. So, these builds are no different in the grand scheme of things. Trust me, if I had it like that, three shops that I would run to for them to build me a car are Greening Auto, Roadster Shop and Ring Brothers. I know there are others out there who may be considered far better builders in other peoples opinion, but I love the builds these three shops do with all of the custom one-off billet pieces, etc. The thing is with these super builds as I would call them, the owners probably have little say so in my opinion. Sure, the builders run almost everything by them and get some sort of approval, but most of the time these rich guys are all too familiar with the work and craftsmenship of the builder and already know who they're dealing with and what kind of high quality work they put out. So, I'm sure the rich guy says "I have $550k budget, here's my car and I want a Ridler contender or I want it done by SEMA, etc." then just drops the car off with a huge deposit and that's when the shop gets to working on the car 40 hours a week pretty much and stays on it and it becomes there baby for the next 10 months in order to present it for the top car of that year and be in all of the magazines like Inferno and Viscious. Also, they leave much of the design fabrication up to the builder and his imagination. Think about it, these guys are just rich and are probably not designers or fabricators. LOL!! So, the builder models something like the rear taillights in modelworks or whatever 3D software he uses and emails a pic of it to the owner and since it has probably never been done before, the owner so calls loves it. All the owner knows is it's one-off and it's guaranteed that no one else will have it. One thing about it is, I'll probably never have a car like this built, but if I did, the builder would be mad at me because soon as it was finished I want my damn car. There would be no keeping it for a year or so showing it all around the country. I'm picking my car up from the second it finished. :drive:

[214Chevy]

I don't know exactly how much money you have to have in a slush fund to be able to build a $400k plus car, but I do know it's a butt load. The thing is, the people that have the money to build a half of a million dollar car doesn't even look at it from a stylish point and don't care what the car will look like 5 years from now because they'll have found something else to spend their money on, be it another car, a boat, etc. If the car they built today becomes whack and outdated, they'll just build one of the current date and time. They build these cars for the oooh-ahhh factor and to have people like you and I standing around it at all of the car shows drooling and taking pics. Also, they like to be different just like the uber rich guy who buys a $2 million Bughatti. Why do you think these high dollar builds get built, then the builder still has possession of the car for the first year or so touring all around the country to all of the big shows...Good Guys, SEMA, Detroit Autorama, etc and then the owner finally takes possession of the car, puts about 1,000 miles or less on the car and then it's suddenly for sale for about $100k-$150 less than what he built it for?


To piggyback off of what I said previously about uber rich guys/owners building these cars and not being worried about what is or isn't in style in a few years and the car would be sold after it making it's rounds thru the car show world, winning awards, magazine shoots, etc. Well, here's a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about. The ad states $1.5 million spent on the car and it's for sell for far, far less. So, do we think the owner really cares about money now? :G-Dub: Also, the mileage states 235 miles. Do we think the owner has even had a chance to enjoy the car by driving it? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Chevrolet-Impala-/253006584505?hash=item3ae85e1ab9:g:XBQAAOSwfpVZNYO B&vxp=mtr

[Musclerodz]

To piggyback off of what I said previously about uber rich guys/owners building these cars and not being worried about what is or isn't in style in a few years and the car would be sold after it making it's rounds thru the car show world, winning awards, magazine shoots, etc. Well, here's a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about. The ad states $1.5 million spent on the car and it's for sell for far, far less. So, do we think the owner really cares about money now? Also, the mileage states 258 miles. Do you think the owner has even had a chance to enjoy the car by driving it? :G-Dub: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Chevrolet-Impala-/253006584505?hash=item3ae85e1ab9:g:XBQAAOSwfpVZNYO B&vxp=mtr

I sometimes wonder if some of these guys need a loss on the books just so they don't have to pay uncle sam as much. Why else would you spend 1 mil or more on a build and sell it less than a year later for .20 cents on the dollar? This way they get to enjoy the money they was going to have to spend one way or another. Money is clearly not an object with these types of clients.

[Oleyellar]

Weeellll, this is one way to protect it from the next EX ole lady. She can only get half of the sale price, not the build price....... just sayin'