Vicious Mustang Puts Down 1003whp!

[Centerforce]

We're sure that most of you are now familiar with Vicious, the 65 Mustang build that made waves at this years SEMA show. After taking Ford's Design of the Year award, it was time to prove that this Stang was not just all show. Under the care of Motec's head tuner, the car went in yesterday for its date with the dyno.

Due to the lack of compound-charged, coyote-powered classic mustangs, no one knew what type of power numbers to expect, other than it was going to be BIG. This assumption proved true as the car put down a whopping 1003whp/784wtq on a conservative E85 tune with the help of our DYAD twin-disk clutch!

There is no chance of this car just being a Dyno queen. Its owner, Chris, plans to do plenty of road racing and auto-x events with the car, including Optima Challenge next year. You can stay up to date with the build via these social channels:
https://www.instagram.com/viciousstang/
https://www.facebook.com/viciousstang/


http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u652/gr33n_machine/161216_TK%20_Vicious_Rear_Highlight_zpsyrn4rjoj.jp g

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u652/gr33n_machine/161221%20TK_DSPORT_DYNO_005_zpslu1j2v1x.jpg

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u652/gr33n_machine/161216_TK%20_Vicious_Turbo_Highlight_V1_zps2caujnl h.jpg

https://youtu.be/ztnXjyhdns8

https://youtu.be/P-d8RrWXi74

[RobertH]

I'm really surprised they're going to beat on that car, that is really cool.

[GregWeld]

Funny! The MULE -- put down 1021 HP with twin turbos an 8 stack.... and old fashioned heads etc. and a whopping 389 cubic inches (relatively old fashioned compared to all the new motors).


I'd have thought this might have produced MUCH more than 1000 hp.

[clill]

Mule was 1021 at the flywheel.

[GregWeld]

Mule was 1021 at the flywheel.




AH --- MY BAD THEN -- but still --- you'd think with all that hardware it would have made more.

[rustomatic]

They did say that the tune was "conservative." Surely they do not want to grenade the thing during the first round of glory tests . . .

Yes, I just called you Shirley.:hello:

[GregWeld]

They did say that the tune was "conservative." Surely they do not want to grenade the thing during the first round of glory tests . . .

Yes, I just called you Shirley.:hello:




Think about HellFire - makes 950HP - drives across country multiple times per year - gets tracked - and generally gets the crap driven out of it..... and I hear the new build will be 1000+....... So my point was more that there is an awful lot going on here for the result.... when 1000HP these days is pretty "easy".... and on PUMP gas not E85.

I love the car and the build -- please don't misread what I'm saying. The car is bad ass 100%. I just was expecting 1750 +

[preston]

I don't think you are gaining any efficiency by compound boosting it in this application, so the extra complexity is more for show than go - What I mean is I think they would have put up the same number with only turbos and the same boost. Heck, maybe more. Generally the compound boosting is to allow the positive displacement charger to fill in the bottom end before the turbos are full flow.

I think I had a similar reaction to you, but more because the chart showed they were using 27 psi to make the power. That's a crap load of boost, my rough numbers show that the base motor is making less than 400whp without boost. But again that could be the tune and lots of other things.

But agreed, this is a totally cool car nothing negative to say about it except I think the compound deal is more for show, it would probably be lighter and make just as much power with turbos only.

Always curious how the CF brakes will work in the real world without ABS (or did I miss that part ?). According to Clill himself that can be a dicey proposition.

[GregWeld]

I don't think you are gaining any efficiency by compound boosting it in this application, so the extra complexity is more for show than go - What I mean is I think they would have put up the same number with only turbos and the same boost. Heck, maybe more. Generally the compound boosting is to allow the positive displacement charger to fill in the bottom end before the turbos are full flow.

I think I had a similar reaction to you, but more because the chart showed they were using 27 psi to make the power. That's a crap load of boost, my rough numbers show that the base motor is making less than 400whp without boost. But again that could be the tune and lots of other things.

But agreed, this is a totally cool car nothing negative to say about it except I think the compound deal is more for show, it would probably be lighter and make just as much power with turbos only.

Always curious how the CF brakes will work in the real world without ABS (or did I miss that part ?). According to Clill himself that can be a dicey proposition.




I was playing yesterday with the LSX platform ---- Hot Rod magazine built a STOCK LSX 376 -- put on a single 76MM turbo and made 1000 HP.... on pump gas with 19 psi.


Mind you -- that's flywheel....


http://www.hotrod.com/articles/make-1000-hp-with-an-lsx-crate-engine-and-a-76mm-precision-turbo/


I agree --- super killer build -- love the looks and the color choices and the carbon and all of it.

The carbon brakes on our 911 S Turbo's are better than fantastic!! And according to Mark Steilow -- We might wear out a set of rotors about 30 sets of brake pads from now. Amazing!

[Tinker]

Who else out there remembers when 450hp was usually considered barely streetable?

[Che70velle]

Who else out there remembers when 450hp was usually considered barely streetable?

No kidding! My 02' Z06 had 405 flywheel hp, and I thought that I had me a monster...LOL!!

[GregWeld]

No kidding! My 02' Z06 had 405 flywheel hp, and I thought that I had me a monster...LOL!!




Where's the like button!


LOL



FACT!


Or you bought a big ass crate motor! A 502!! with 502 hp!

[preston]

I'm making 650whp on low boost and it scares me every time I drive it - for the last 2 years ! I'm not "getting used to it" lol although yeah I don't drive it that much these days.

Yeah I remember when the new 4.6 cobra 4v came out and people were strapping on blowers and making 420whp out of the box and I remember thinking, "wow we have just gone too far now - what is the point of even building a hot rod if these guys can make SO MUCH power on a factory motor so easily ??"

Still remember the first time I saw a magazine car claiming 1000fhp, it was a TT 331 ci Saleen Mustang 5.0. I just thought wow that is stupid I bet that motor is a total hand grenade anyway. But I was intrigued by twin turbos in a street car....

Ramble on over to the forced induction section of the Corvette forum - now a days you're pretty much a chump if you're not making 1000whp. I don't know where those guys are doing all that roll racing to 150mph but I"m glad it doesn't seem to be anywhere around me !!

[Centerforce]

AH --- MY BAD THEN -- but still --- you'd think with all that hardware it would have made more.

They did say that the tune was "conservative." Surely they do not want to grenade the thing during the first round of glory tests . . .


That is correct; this is the initial tune on a brand new engine, so they were nowhere near pushing its limits. From what we understand, it will be going back after the initial press drives and break-in for another tuning session, and most likely more power.

You also have to keep in mind that on top of being tracked, it will also be pulling double-duty as a street car. We are sure that for a 7-figure price tag, the owner would prefer for it to run reliably for a long time, and not push the engine to the ragged edge.

I don't think you are gaining any efficiency by compound boosting it in this application, so the extra complexity is more for show than go - What I mean is I think they would have put up the same number with only turbos and the same boost. Heck, maybe more. Generally the compound boosting is to allow the positive displacement charger to fill in the bottom end before the turbos are full flow.


The shops goal in this build was to create a one-of-a-kind mustang that could be an extremely functional road race car. It made sense for the shop to do a compound-charged setup for a number of reasons.

It will work very well for road race driving where you need minimal lag and power throughout the RPM range for constant on/off throttle conditions. They definitely could have opted for a bigger blower and turbos to put down 1500+ if the goal was drag racing or just to be a dyno queen, but on top of already being downright terrifying to drive, the additional power is just not necessary for its purpose.

The other benefit of a setup like this was to showcase the shops craftsmanship, and do something no one else has before. With the bar at SEMA being set higher and higher every year, it's become almost impossible to stand apart from the hundreds of other resto-mods builds. A simple single-turbo or blower setup would not have allowed Timeless Kustoms to demonstrate what they are truly capable of. We think it goes perfectly with the over-the-top theme of this build!

[GregWeld]

The build is KRAZY KOOL....


Thanks for the explanation. I hope I wasn't sounding like an idiot questioning the power etc. I guess - which I've said here before - in this day and age with ginormous power seemingly easy to attain... I saw all the hardware and thought OH MY --- another 2,000 hp animal!

Will be fun to watch this be flogged and sorted out.

[Centerforce]

The build is KRAZY KOOL....


Thanks for the explanation. I hope I wasn't sounding like an idiot questioning the power etc. I guess - which I've said here before - in this day and age with ginormous power seemingly easy to attain... I saw all the hardware and thought OH MY --- another 2,000 hp animal!

Will be fun to watch this be flogged and sorted out.

No not at all! We are just as excited to see it hit the track for some real action.

The car will be featured on Jay Leno's garage and a number of other auto media outlets, so be sure to keep an eye out!

[rustomatic]

I remember seeing the Chevelle (grand sport?) Timeless Kustoms built a few years back at the Laguna Seca USCA thing, and I was blown away by how ridiculously nice the thing was. The owner was flogging the snot out of it, and some of the builders of the car were there crewing for him--I even helped push the thing a time or two, as I believe they were still working out the fuel system. I couldn't stop gawking at the car, even though a Chevelle is not a car I ever think of. This was the athletic supermodel of Chevelles.

My point here is that Timeless Kustoms deserves big kudos for not only building crazy cars with ultra-high finish levels (at least to my unprofessional eyes), but also for being willing to stick their work on a track, like it's a car (as opposed to another SEMA concept), regardless of the (cubic) dollars and sweat behind the build. Here's hoping for a (video-captured) beating that consists of more than just a bunch of Ken Block-ian tire wastings . . .

[Steve Chryssos]

Sounds really nasty. I very much enjoyed checking this car out at SEMA.

[Vegas69]

Stunning, but a track car? I find that hard to believe.

[Sheck44]

Seriously awesome car ... 10,000 hours of work, WOW !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvAqEGbkx5E

Steve

[Josh@Ridetech]

Stunning, but a track car? I find that hard to believe.

It's definitely a nice build. When we worked with the guys, they said they didn't have any intentions of this one being a trailer queen. They plan on tracking the car to no end.

[214Chevy]

I'm still confused on how the whole twin turbo's, coupled with a supercharger thing works. :confused18:

[Centerforce]

Stunning, but a track car? I find that hard to believe.

It's definitely a nice build. When we worked with the guys, they said they didn't have any intentions of this one being a trailer queen. They plan on tracking the car to no end.

Believe it! This car was actually about to compete at the Optima event directly following SEMA, but unfortunately was not able to be tuned in time. We'll be sure to post the coverage when it hits the track for the first time!

Seriously awesome car ... 10,000 hours of work, WOW !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvAqEGbkx5E

Steve

Yessir! During the last 3 weeks or so leading up to SEMA there was 8-10 people working on the car around the clock!

I'm still confused on how the whole twin turbo's, coupled with a supercharger thing works. :confused18:

A very over-simplified explanation of dual charging is that the blower provides power in the low RPM ranges where turbo performance usually suffers (lag). Picture the routing like a normal twin turbo system (with intercoolers, etc) only right before the air enters the engine, it is compounded even further by the supercharger.

[Vegas69]

It sounds great until a car goes off the track ahead of you and you go through a cloud of rocks.

Maybe the owner has deep pockets and doesn't care. Kudos to him!

[GregWeld]

Seriously awesome car ... 10,000 hours of work, WOW !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvAqEGbkx5E

Steve




Think about that amount of HOURS ---- there's 2080 hours in a year of working 40 hours a week -- 52 weeks of the year -- no vacation..... So 10,000 hours is 4 guys working on the car non-stop every day all day long for a year.

[Che70velle]

Think about that amount of HOURS ---- there's 2080 hours in a year of working 40 hours a week -- 52 weeks of the year -- no vacation..... So 10,000 hours is 4 guys working on the car non-stop every day all day long for a year.

Yeah...then multiply the number of hours X an average shops hourly labor charge. Wow.

[rustomatic]

That year was supposedly nine months, so pay more in less time, for probably more than four guys/subs. We knew in advance that Vicious was a seven-figure car, so yeah, the person paying can probably handle some errant gravel damage . . .:G-Dub:

It was painful trying to watch the Jay's Garage episode--the builder looked like he was watching somebody key the poor car (while tolerating the host's rambling lack of awareness). Pretty much every significant element of build design/quality/ingenuity/fab skill went unnoticed.:EmoteClueless:

[Centerforce]

It sounds great until a car goes off the track ahead of you and you go through a cloud of rocks.

Maybe the owner has deep pockets and doesn't care. Kudos to him!

Think about that amount of HOURS ---- there's 2080 hours in a year of working 40 hours a week -- 52 weeks of the year -- no vacation..... So 10,000 hours is 4 guys working on the car non-stop every day all day long for a year.

Yeah...then multiply the number of hours X an average shops hourly labor charge. Wow.

That year was supposedly nine months, so pay more in less time, for probably more than four guys/subs. We knew in advance that Vicious was a seven-figure car, so yeah, the person paying can probably handle some errant gravel damage . . .:G-Dub:

It was painful trying to watch the Jay's Garage episode--the builder looked like he was watching somebody key the poor car (while tolerating the host's rambling lack of awareness). Pretty much every significant element of build design/quality/ingenuity/fab skill went unnoticed.:EmoteClueless:

The risk of damage is always there, but pretty minimal in autox and non-sanctioned racing where you aren't door-to-door with other cars. We have no doubt that the owner could have the car repaired in the case that anything did happen to it.

We actually haven't thought about the hours in those terms, but it really helps put it in perspective, Greg. There were times in the last month leading up to completion where every worker in the shop was working on something for the build, so the hours added up FAST.

[214Chevy]

The irony of these big dollar builds is, we all know guys who build them undoubtedly have super, deep pockets and it's just "something" for them to do. But, the car gets shown all around the country for a year or two at all of the big shows, gets major write-ups in all of the magazines, win some awards, then we never hear about the car again. The car hardly ever gets driven recreationally (I assume) because it's always being shown. I mean, I know they"ll drive the snot out of it at autocross events, etc to help with displaying the car and getting the attention it deserves, but then it'll be sold for several thousands or probably hundreds of thousands less than it cost to build.

[GregWeld]

The irony of these big dollar builds is, we all know guys who build them undoubtedly have super, deep pockets and it's just "something" for them to do. But, the car gets shown all around the country for a year or two at all of the big shows, gets major write-ups in all of the magazines, win some awards, then we never hear about the car again. The car hardly ever gets driven recreationally (I assume) because it's always being shown. I mean, I know they"ll drive the snot out of it at autocross events, etc to help with displaying the car and getting the attention it deserves, but then it'll be sold for several thousands or probably hundreds of thousands less than it cost to build.





Well I think you just summed up our hobby!!! LOL

[preston]

That whole cycle has always blown me away as well. I like to think that we just don't hear about the cars because why would there be media about some guy driving his car around somewhere or doing a local motorsports event. THe only reason you would "hear" about the car is if it was doing high profile events.

I used to think these guys were insane ie I would think if I had a car like that I'd love it and hug it and drive it. But that's when I was younger - at this point I've easily poured the equivalent of 7 figures into my car if you count my time at $15 hour (ha), and I've come close to selling it dozens of times for the proverbial pennies on the dollar, so I can relate to it a little better than I used to about wanting to move on.

[214Chevy]

That whole cycle has always blown me away as well. I like to think that we just don't hear about the cars because why would there be media about some guy driving his car around somewhere or doing a local motorsports event. THe only reason you would "hear" about the car is if it was doing high profile events.

I used to think these guys were insane ie I would think if I had a car like that I'd love it and hug it and drive it. But that's when I was younger - at this point I've easily poured the equivalent of 7 figures into my car if you count my time at $15 hour (ha), and I've come close to selling it dozens of times for the proverbial pennies on the dollar, so I can relate to it a little better than I used to about wanting to move on.

I feel you on that too and totally agree.