Are the SBC's and the BBC's Dead?

[tyoneal]

Hello:

I'm still trying to catch up with new technology so please bear with me.

After reading over and over about the popularity of installing the LSx engines, I'm begining to wonder:

Are the SBC's and the BBC's Dead?

Are the LSx series of engines wildly popular because they are a significant bang for the buck, or are they currently popular because they are the, "In" transplant to have in a modern PT car?

Please help me shed some light on this.

Thanks for your patience.

tyoneal

[Steve1968LS2]

Hello:

I'm still trying to catch up with new technology so please bear with me.

After reading over and over about the popularity of installing the LSx engines, I'm begining to wonder:

Are the SBC's and the BBC's Dead?

Are the LSx series of engines wildly popular because they are a significant bang for the buck, or are they currently popular because they are the, "In" transplant to have in a modern PT car?

Please help me shed some light on this.

Thanks for your patience.

tyoneal

No, 99% of all Chevy engines out there are SBC and BBC engines. As popular as LSx stuff may seem it's still in the tiny minority. They are popular more than just because they are the "in" transplant to have but because they are a huge technology leap over the older SBC and BBC engines.

15 years ago what would it have cost to build an all aluminum SBC? How about with fuel injection? That technology is relatively cheap. PT cars like the LSx stuff due to it's lightweight that pays big dividends in handling.

Still, nothing beats the brute force of the BBC and the massive amounts of torque that can be had (and the wow/coolness factor). Also, nothing beats the cheap and easy performance of the SBC and the vast supply of inexpensive parts for it. Both of those engines will be around forever.

[rocketman]

The Lsx enigines are popular,But the SBC/BBC combo is still out there.The down side to the Lsx package is the ecm to run it,And they are a little more to build.If you are starting from scratch a Ls wouldn't be a bad option,but I don't see any reason to change to one,Like many guys do,There's really no power differnce in them,just have the "latest craze".

[nitrorocket]

The real key to an LSX motor is the power. How much does it cost to build a sbc to 400+ hp at the crank with fuel injection and have it live 150K miles???

An lsx can be had turn key for $3-4K. That includes 400-500 hp, aluminum block, fuel injection, and a far more solid foundation for a future performance buildup.

I have built 5 SBC's for my car over the last 12 years, I went LSX due to a lower cost and increased performance. Heck I am using the complete stock LS1 fuel injection and making a reliable 1000 hp with just good rods, pistons, and turbos. You just cannot do that with a mostly factory SBC or even BBC for that matter.:hail:

[rocketman]

The standard Ls1 is not 400 hp.A standard ls1 is 345hp,A ls2 is 400hp,A Ls6 is 405.

Ls1 is 3-4 grand
Ls2 is 5-7 grand
Ls6 is 7-9 grand
Ls7 is 13-15 grand


Yeah they are replieable,but any engine an be built that way.

You can add turbos to almost anything and make 1000 horse.So yeah it's cool,but that turbos set-up will need freshed every 30-40 thousand miles depending on abuse.

Nitrorocket did you try a SBC turbo combo 1st.to compare them?So how do you know that it couldn't be done.

Just curouis

[tyoneal]

What is the best (Easiest, most durable, least expensive) platform to build to 600-800 reliable horsepower?

How would it need to be configured?

Any idea on cost to build?

Cost to install. (Plus things needed to make the install)

Thanks,

tyoneal

[nitrorocket]

I will ramble a little. :D


I am speaking from experience, not hearsay. I have built many high dollar SBC's. It cost big money to build one that will last with big power #s(800-1000 hp). I also used to be in the buisness of selling used LS1's. I have sold them for profit for as much as $3500 and as little as $2400 turnkey. I bought them for far less, you just have to keep an eye open, but that is besides the point.

I am not saying big power cannot be made with a sbc. Heck there are 2000 hp SBC's.They can make equal power, but not at the same cost for the 1000 hp level.

The reason i went to an LS1 last year is I wanted a turbo setup. The "bullet proof" motor I had, plus the turbos would have been too much money and I was already afraid of hurting the engine. I was able to buy an LS1, build it, and twin turbo it for the cost I sold my N/A motor for!! That is why I did not turbo the SBC.
I like the huge weight off my chest knowing if I hurt this motor, they are a dime a dozen, for instance, I break a rod and take out a block and crank. An LS1 block and crank can be had for $500, where as a sbc aftermarket block and crank to handle this power would cost about $3200.

I am now really PRO-LS1 because of the basic reasons of, low cost, fuel injected driveability and mileage, and the aluminum block!! I think the aluminum block is the best part, I always wanted one, but at $3500+ for a aluminum dart block, I could not afford that in my whole life! :wow:

Also, the rating on the ls1's is a little low. Stock ls1's are dynoing 350 rwhp. That is what they are rated at at the crank, I don't know what is up with that, but they make much more at the crank then they advertise. :_paranoid

Again, I love SBC's, I have alway stuck by them, but since I went LS1 and had such huge luck with power and low cost, I personally would never go back. I built a ls1 that will handle 1000+ hp for only $5500, That is just too cheap!! :hail: Yes, I have turned into a tightwad! :D

[trapin]

I'm not sure how "cost effective" LSX engines are. Yeah...you can buy an old LS1 off of eBay for 3 or 4 grand but it's going to come out of a wreck and chances are it has 40-60,000 miles on it and it's been beat on. Aftermarket parts for them are outrageous. By the time you're done swapping out the cam, heads, and intake you're probably looking at $8000 for a 450hp engine without touching the short block. And you're oddessy doesn't end there. Now you have to get special motor mounts, computer system, have the computer system recalibrated by a professional, a new fuel tank with internal fuel pump, modify the oil pan to fit your car, a set of custom made headers which are priced somewhere in the upper stratosphere and yadda...yadda...yadda.

No thanks. :rolleyes:

[nitrorocket]

A 40-60K mile Ls1 is just broken in! :yes: They can be had for about $3k turn key, and are about 400 hp at the crank in stock condition.

Really, to each there own, it all depends on what you want, goals, and what you will be happy with. I tell you though, I have not talked to one single LS1 person that has any regrets or complaints from the swap. If you already have a sbc, then keep it, but if you want fuel injection and an all aluminum lightweight motor and or have no motor yet, you might consider the swap. :thumbsup:

[MarkM66]

SBC and BBC's will never die. Way to many good aftermarket parts for them!

[trapin]

I don't deny they're great engines. I just wish they weren't so much of a hassell to upgrade and put in your car. But that said, they're amazing powerplants and you can't beat the weight savings for competition.

[rocketman]

I have built acouple Ls style engine's and they are no cheaper to build,and I think a little more to build than a SBC.

How many of use guy's on here are going to drive the car hard enough to notice having an alumunin block.And there's only 70 pd's differnet in a steel block and aluminum block.


I have never seen a Lsx engine in stock form rwph 400hp.the best i have seen was 348rhwp in a 01 vette.My zo6 didnt rw 400 and the Ls6 is the 2nd best Ls engine next a Ls7.

I am not saying there bad they are good engine's,but they aren't as cheap as people think.and IMO not worth changing out a current SBC set-up just for a LS

[Diognes56]

SBC's and BBC's aren't going anywhere, LSx's are just another option. Depending on what needs to be done to a car it may be logical to stick with the SBC's or BBC's but in other cases it might be reasonable to go with a LSx. It also depends on budget and personal taste. Someday (when I have more money :( ) I will get a LSx for my '56, but that is what I like and it makes sense because I have to have to fix/change things that the previous owner and time had done to the car anyway (motor mounts, radiator, gas tank, etc).

David

[MarkM66]

Doesn't look like the LS1 has a weight advantage. Even with an aluminum block.

Posted by Steve1968LS2:

457.6 lbs, LS1 auto; 497.2 lbs, LS1/LS6 manual

From Chevy2only; http://www.chevy2only.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=27&MMN_position=54:8

Weights are from carb to oil pan with HEI dist, harmonic balancer, and iron water pump.

SMALL BLOCK
All iron small block 520 lbs.
Alum heads w/iron small block 480 lbs.
All alum motor 389 lbs.

BIG BLOCK
All iron BB 754 lbs.
Alum heads with iron block 660 lbs.
All alum BB 501 lbs.