$25,000 budget for build what do I do

[phoenixdawg]

I have a 68 Camaro convertible, car is exceptionally clean, been stored for the better part of 15 years. The car has new top, stock interior with no tears, needs some new interior door panels. Body is rust free, was taken town to sheet metal in 1993, but maybe has 1000 miles on it since then.

I want to make the car a great daily driver, something in the pro touring vein, not auto cross or track time.

I will do an LS conversion, most likely and LS3. Suspension needs to be sorely upgraded, I will most likely put in a mini tub.

So tell me what you think.

[MaxHarvard]

An engine swap will cost around $10k give or take, don't let others fool you into thinking you can do it for $500. You can't.

Spend the rest on upper and lower control arms (speedtech has the best bang for the buck) and some decent upgraded brakes (baer has good upgrades without going full out).

Maybe look at a coil-over conversion (ride tech is awesome).

Get some decent new seats and a couple fancy gauges and bingo-bango... Brand new ride!

That should be about $25k if you go middle of the road with everything and do the majority of the work yourself.

Shameless plug:

Feel free to pick up this sweet book... it will help with yoru swap ;)

http://www.amazon.com/Swap-Engines-into-Camaros-Firebirds/dp/1613250312

[214Chevy]

An engine swap will cost around $10k give or take, don't let others fool you into thinking you can do it for $500. You can't.


AMEN!! Cuz people who think you can are.... :EmoteClueless:

[phoenixdawg]

I figure by the time you get the mounts, transmission, fuel tank, harness you are easily plus 10k. I already have converted the brake system, I have Baer 12" brakes all around. I plan to do a fair amount of work myself. The only thing I would not do is embark on a mini tub.

[MaxHarvard]

I figure by the time you get the mounts, transmission, fuel tank, harness you are easily plus 10k. I already have converted the brake system, I have Baer 12" brakes all around. I plan to do a fair amount of work myself. The only thing I would not do is embark on a mini tub.

It's not too bad. I did it.

http://gearheaddaily.com/dat-ass-how-to-install-mini-tubs-in-your-ride/

[Spiffav8]

I have a 68 Camaro convertible, car is exceptionally clean, been stored for the better part of 15 years. The car has new top, stock interior with no tears, needs some new interior door panels. Body is rust free, was taken town to sheet metal in 1993, but maybe has 1000 miles on it since then.

I want to make the car a great daily driver, something in the pro touring vein, not auto cross or track time.

I will do an LS conversion, most likely and LS3. Suspension needs to be sorely upgraded, I will most likely put in a mini tub.

So tell me what you think.

Sounds like a car with "Good Bones" and perfect to build into a cruiser. I think you are on the right path for the most part. I would build and price it out on paper a few different ways. There are plenty of base line Pro Touring suspension setups that would make for a pleasant ride. The main thing is that you will have to do most if not all the work your self. Maximize the budget kind of thing.

If it where me.....I'd pass on the mini-tubs at this stage. It's an expense that doesn't get you a lot and will only add more expense to your upgrade list.

I wouldn't do an crate LS3 either. I would look for a low mileage dropout and go that route. I have an L76 for example. We added a different cam and a few upgraded parts and came out way ahead $$ wise. Keep in mind the other items you will need when you make the LS swap such as the harness, computer, pedal, fuel system and transmission. I'm sure you are already on this and I don't intend to sound like I am talking down to you. Just making sure is all.

Suspension...Lot of great options out there. The few cars I have driven with the Hotchkis TVS setup under them are really nice handling improvement. Add the Speedtech Spindles and upper control arms along with a set of Bilstein shocks and you've got a sweet ride. I'd also look into upgrading the steering box if the budget allows.

Let's be honest. You're going to want a brake kit. :lol: I see some very nice setups on here all the time. I'd watch for a deal and go that route. Might want to up your odds and look on some of the other PT sites and the Corvette forums. Those Corvette guys sell of some sweet stock stuff for dirt cheap every now and then.

Interior wise...again, look for a deal on some gauges. Those always seem to be listed here. When it comes to seats, I'd recover/refurbish/upgrade the stock ones with a kit from TMI. It's a Vert, so go with something simple, clean and comfortable.

Not sure how all that would add up $$ wise, but you could pick and choose for now. Perhaps do the LS swap last if needed. One thing is for sure. Have a plan and have ALL the parts on hand before you take the car apart. It will make the experience a lot more enjoyable. Oh an keep in mind that these cars are never really done.

Enjoy! :captain:

[TheJDMan]

I will tell you like I tell anyone who asks this question, spend time reading and researching the great vendors we have here on Lat-G as well as Pro-Touring.com. Look at all their products and decide what works best for what you want to achieve with your car. I spent the better part of a year just reading and researching parts before I purchased anything. The more you know the better the project will turn out.

Personally, I would concentrate on the suspension, brakes and wheel/tires. With the popularity of LS swaps there are some really good deals on early SBC/BBC engines left behind. I would back the engine with a good over drive transmission either auto or manual depending on your preference.

Take a look at the Ridetech 48 Hour Camaro. It will give you a good idea of what is possible with all bolt on suspension parts.

http://www.ridetech.com/garage/new-48-hour-camaro/

[bret]

One path to a happy hotrod...http://www.ridetech.com/store/streetgrip

Next, seats, steering box, front disc brakes, steering wheel, wheels/tires.

I love the ls engine and have several, but power is power and my small block cars run just fine as well.

[Vega$69]

#1 Don't get caught up gotta have the best hype.

1st determine honestly how you intend to use the car. For most you don't really need the full aftermarket suspension setups.

A Simple Hotchkis TVS upgrade with the right shocks, good tire selection and a good brake combo can make your car handle great at a fraction of the cost. The Ridetech Streetgrip is also an excellent choice.

Tubbing is great but you'll spend $5-6k for wheels and tires. Without tubs you can run 275s

Overdrive tranny IMO is a must. I love LS engines. A swap will cost you $10k to do it right. If you have good small block or big block maybe keep it and add EFI. Or like others gave suggested pick up a good motor from a guy doing a swap. I see guys all the time selling $10k engines for $2-3k because they are going LS.

Interior upgrades to the seats from TMI or maybe some Procars. AC and nice sound system will finish the build

[phoenixdawg]

I currently have the Hotchkis rear lowering leafs and front lowering springs, not a fan of the ride quality. I am more inclined to move to a better suspension set up.

I don't think I will tub the car, tubs while cool are an added significant expense. I have 17x8 Billet Specialties all around, 245s front, 275s rear. I could keep the same set up.

I have power discs all around, 12" baer.

I have done lots of studying on multiple suspension systems, Ridetech, Speedtech seem to be a great value, 5k would get me pretty far down the road on the front and rear suspension.

Agree, on seats, stereo and replacement A/C.


I really like the LS idea for reliabiliy, etc. On Jegs right now you can buy the LS3 with all accessories and transmission for 11k and get a 500 rebate.

I realize that the LS comes with a host of peripheral parts - fuel tank, radiator, mounts, oil pan, transmission cross member, drive shaft.

Any thoughts on a big block, that would be kind of fun without all the peripheral issues.

[Vega$69]

Quantify what you don't like about ride quality.

Too soft?
Too harsh?
Body roll?

Often tires and/or shocks will resolve these issues.

[rickpaw]

I currently have the Hotchkis rear lowering leafs and front lowering springs, not a fan of the ride quality. I am more inclined to move to a better suspension set up.



Quantify what you don't like about ride quality.

Too soft?
Too harsh?
Body roll?

Often tires and/or shocks will resolve these issues.

Agree with the above. I have Hotchkis springs front/rear with KYB shocks and the car rode really harsh. Currently have Ridetech single adjustable shocks all around and the car rides much better. Don't know what kind of shocks you have now, but you may want to look into changing shocks first, if you're looking to save some $$$.

Tu

[hifi875]

kyb =kill you butt

[Rod P]

I currently have the Hotchkis rear lowering leafs and front lowering springs, not a fan of the ride quality. .


ride quality is controlled by the shocks....ride height and attitude is controlled by the springs......

simple test ...take the shocks off...and drive the car around the block...if the ride is better then you need good shocks...if the ride still sucks then you have a suspension bind somewhere...if you get that far let us know

[GregWeld]

Having built a whole bunch of cars.... I will guarantee you will be like everyone else on the planet. Which is to say -- you'll get the "well as long as I'm doing X I might as well do Y too...." The key is to control that --- and to plan for it BEFORE you get started.

$25K sounds like "plenty" -- until you get started. Then - like most builds - you'll find all manor of stuff you didn't know you needed or didn't count on.

The LS motor will eat up too much of your budget IMHO. UNLESS.... Unless you do a "take out" which is a fancy way of saying a JUNKYARD motor. Sure - you'd like to find one that has 3,000 miles on it and the car gets totaled somehow... but junkyards know what this stuff is worth too.

Frankly -- there are many more costs to this swap. Electric fuel pumps - headers - new radiator - electric fans and on and on.... it's all these little items that really add up because they're not $25 items. Just a front accessory drive for these motors can be $2500

I think first and foremost you need to be real honest to yourself - and say - how many miles am I going to drive the car - where am I going to want to drive the car - and how much time and skill do you have to build it etc.


So I'd be looking at a nice torquey small block (you can buy real decent crate motors from GM or? And all they need is a good distributor curve to wake them up) or mild big block - mechanical fuel pump - carburetor - T56 tranny - converting to a Ford 9" or built 12 Bolt (there's all kinds of "kits" out there for this) - and real decent suspension - killer wheels and tire combo... great sounding exhaust... updated headlights and taillights -- and fixing up the interior - including gauges - and steering wheel and SEATS (Camaro seats SUCK!).

I'd want a car that is reliable (we used carbs for about the last 100 years quite reliably - not to mention the reliability of the SBC).... that is fun to drive - meaning it rides and handles well - and has comfortable seats and air conditioning etc. You can get some pretty decent tires under the car with the right offset wheels and

It doesn't seem like you'd save that much dough just doing a different motor - but it's the fact that there are SO MANY options price wise for SBC's in these cars... and you don't have to run with EFI.


This motor might be too hot for a nice street cruiser -- I'm just using it for an example. This is but ONE builder - and they have several levels of performance to choose from.


Here's a pretty HOT 383 stroker motor - with 450 HP -- 460 ft lbs of torque....

http://www.smedingperformance.com/chevy/383+Extreme+450+Horsepower.html


Couple this to a nice 5 or 6 speed and you'd have a nice cruiser.... Or if you wanted to go automatic - get a simple stage 3 700r4 with a 2800 stall torque converter and roast the tires at will.... and be under 10K -- even buying new headers and a new radiator you'd still be under. Wheels and tires - there's 5K.... now you're at 15 grand.... rear end will set you back another 5K -- with gears / axles / and coil over type kit such as SpeedTech or RideTech or BMR sell ... Then you're at 20+K -- now you have 5K left for A arms/springs/shocks/subframe connectors up front and some interior stuff.


There's nothing wrong with wanting to mini tub the car.... as long as you have some skills and the tools to complete the job. But you said you weren't interested in tracking the car particularly - so other than looks and fatter tires back there -- you're adding a lot of cost and complication for something you don't intend to use.

While 25K is a decent budget - it's going to be just barely doable IF you choose wisely.... shop for bargains when you can get them... and don't bite off more than you can chew.

[Che70velle]

All good suggestions above, from a group of folks who would not steer you wrong. Having said that, you must stay true to your wants. You said that the only thing for sure that you know you want to do to the car is an LS swap. That would be my first step if I were you. Sure, it's gonna eat up $10K, but that leaves you $15K to make the car handle better, and have a more modern interior.
You don't need an aftermarket subframe, or a 4 link rear, to have a cool looking, nor a great handling car. Your not gonna track this vert, so don't bother trying to build a race car. Very few track capable builds actually get tracked. Don't waste your money on the high end suspension items. Go with some nice control arms, maybe a kit from RideTech, with matching shocks, and match the rear stuff to the front suspension...done. Mini tubbing just plain looks mean with the huge rear tires, but the wheels and tires to get that look (and tire patch, which leads to better handling when balanced) will eat up a large sum of what you have left after the engine swap.
It's your car, and only you can make the decision based on what your wanting. Stay honest with yourself, throughout the build. Don't start a full blow apart rotisserie build, if your not completely sure that you can financially handle the ENTIRE endeavor, and have the patience to wait it out. I get tired of seeing people sell off unfinished projects because they ran out of money, and patience. If you can do a lot of this yourself, you'll save tens of thousands of dollars.
Shop for bargains. That's what I did. I never bought one single item of my build on a whim. I waited for a deal, and jumped on it. I've had my car apart for just over four years now, but I'm down to just a few more interior items, and a stereo install. I knew what I wanted then, and I kept true to my vision that I had the entire time. Make a spreadsheet with your budget, YES GUYS I SAID BUDGET, and work it out. It's doable for $25k. Check out this DEAL that just popped up, for instance...http://www.pro-touring.com/archive/index.php/t-118390.html

[Vince@Meanstreets]

he's listing here too. http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=51741

then there is this: http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=51735

who is doing the labor?

[Vega$69]

Yes you can find some killer deals. Just do your research so you know what you're getting.

Often I see deals posted that with shipping aren't any better then buying new with free ship that's offered by lots of vendors.

Remember posted prices are asking prices. You can usually get a better price if you jump on it and have cash in hand.

As stated above before you spend a dime put together a spreadsheet and leave yourself a little room.

The misc stuff can really add up. Fluids alone cost $150 - $200. If you go T56 you'll need to mod the tunnel. The cost of things like welding up the exhaust and parts needed to get the gauges working are often overlooked in the budget. Shipping of the needed parts can also add fair amount to the build cost.

Good luck with your build and enjoy the journey

[phoenixdawg]

Thanks all, I am stacking up my spreadsheet as we speak. 70 Chevelle, I spent 4 years of my formative years in Dahlonega, so I know your neck of the woods really well, spent a bunch of time at A falls.

[Che70velle]

Thanks all, I am stacking up my spreadsheet as we speak. 70 Chevelle, I spent 4 years of my formative years in Dahlonega, so I know your neck of the woods really well, spent a bunch of time at A falls.

I live 4 miles from the falls. We eat at the lodge a lot. Small world!

The posting that me and Vince put up won't last long...hint hint...

[214Chevy]

Hey, I just thought of something :idea: What ever happened to the "whatever your budget is....double that" theory?

[RLJ676]

Hey, I just thought of something :idea: What ever happened to the "whatever your budget is....double that" theory?

This lol.

I did basically the same thing, started w/ a nice restored car and wanted suspension, wheels, etc to make it more fun/look cool. Turned in to replacing everything: LSA, TKO 600, Ridetech, Z51 brakes, all new lines, Corbeau's etc. Needless to say my under 10k original budget ended up double yours.:hairpullout:

Of the completely functioning driver I bought, I reused the body/subframes, carpet, rear seat, dash pad, rear bumper, axle housing and main wiring harness...

[awr68]

Anything you are taking off the car that can be sold? This will help add to your budget.

[trevor572]

Hi, as Tony mentioned there will be buyers for the the items you remove from the car that are of no further use to you, or if the opportunity presents itself swap parts for labour on things that you are not comfortable doing yourself. the guy's all make valid points. I personally don't have an unlimited budget so I do a bunch of research, ask a lot of questions and keep an eye out for items that represent good value for money, I wont buy something just because it's the cheapest available or anything, but for example, I wont spend thousands of dollars on a flash billet accessory drive set up, I'll buy a nice set of billet pulleys and brackets and put the money saved into things that you just should not scrimp on. Good Luck and Cheers. Trevor.