Tru Turn setup is too low for my camaro...

[anarchy99]

I have the Tru Turn setup on my 69 Camaro with adjustable coilovers. The springs are turned all the way to the top and its still too low for daily driving around Virginia Beach and getting in and out of my driveway. I've un capped the exhaust twice already just going in and out of the driveway and I can get in and out with my lowered ZO6 with minimal problems for comparison. Is there an easy way to get the height up about 2 inches? Would I swap out the shocks or the springs? spindles? Any input would be great. Thanks in advance,
Jim

[Vega$69]

Buddy of mine just had the same issue on his 69. Ridetech sent him different springs and shocks

[anarchy99]

I sent a couple of PMs on pro touring but they stopped responding... I figured I'd post over here to see if I had better luck. Thanks for the response though, more to follow hopefully.

[Blake Foster]

Try calling THESE GUYS.

Ridetech
350 S StCharles
Jasper IN
47546
812-482-2932

[Motobrewmaster]

Jim, I am about to put the same setup on my 69 Camaro. Could you tell me which springs you have for the coil overs? It would also be good to know your engine (for weight) and what tyre size are you running?

[anarchy99]

Sbc iron heads... Nothing crazy, I could toss on the RHS heads I've got sitting here but honestly it's not going to make that much of a difference. Weight wise

[Che70velle]

What front spring are you running, lb. wise and length?
How does the car ride? Soft or firm? Harsh?
What sway bar is under the front end?

[anarchy99]

What front spring are you running, lb. wise and length?
How does the car ride? Soft or firm? Harsh?
What sway bar is under the front end?

Without being under my car... Rides harsh because springs are 100% at the top. I have no idea on the springs and shocks, they are the ones that came with the kit. Sway bar, why would that matter on ride height.

[marolf101x]

First, the threads on the shock are designed so the coil spring can never reach coil bind.

So here's the facts as they've been brought up in this thread:
-headers scrape
-springs are adjusted to top of threads
-owner has no idea what spring rate is on the car (whatever was in the kit is not an acceptable answer as we tailor the spring rate to each vehicle)
-iron headed small block
-owner feels ride quality is poor due to springs being at the top of the threads

Based these findings I'd say you don't have enough spring rate, and the low stance and poor ride quality are due to the shock being bottomed out.

That car uses a 3.6" stroke shock with a 2.0" tall stud top. So distance from upper spring hat (on stock sub) to lower mounting bolt should be around 12.1 inches. Lower control arms should be parallel to ground (draw a line from inner frame mounting point to ball joint.)

Please provide this measurement and we'll go from there.

[TheJDMan]

I have to wonder if the springs are installed correctly on the shocks. Do you have any pics of the shocks as they are installed in the car? Something just doesn't sound right.

[Che70velle]

Without being under my car... Rides harsh because springs are 100% at the top. I have no idea on the springs and shocks, they are the ones that came with the kit. Sway bar, why would that matter on ride height.

I'd agree with RideTech and guess that you have the wrong spring under the front. I asked about sway bar, to only see if you knew the rate. Most people have no idea what their sway bar rate is, and being as how you don't know the shock length, OR the coil spring rating, I'd guess you don't know the bar rating...nothing at all to do with ride height. Most questions like this one come from people that simply don't know what they have under their cars.
If I were you, I'd pull the front shock/springs out, and visually see what you have, and then I'd make a call to RideTech. They will fix your issues.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

sounds like you need a new driveway. :poke: :mock:

Seriously, I would find the offending parts of the car and move them.

Tell us more about your set up.maybe a picture of the car from the side.

[anarchy99]

Would have replied sooner but I've been busy at work... Here's the best pics I think for what your asking.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstqbdlo2x.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstqbdlo2x.jpg.html)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvvfdaapu.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvvfdaapu.jpg.html)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6pp1oq57.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6pp1oq57.jpg.html)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsf7xuyd3f.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsf7xuyd3f.jpg.html)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstyoyc83l.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstyoyc83l.jpg.html)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsft35u3ed.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsft35u3ed.jpg.html)

Car has Tru turn up front bmr watts link torque arm rear... As you can see it's very very low. Norfolk streets are horrible and the streets on base aren't much better, with lots of speed bumps. Excuse my ignorance on spring principles etc, but any help is badly needed. Where can I find the spring rate on the spring? I bought these a while back, and a lot of life and several deployments have happened since then so I have no idea what the rate is. Bought directly from ride tech.

[130fe]

Usually the spring rate number is on the spring itself. I bet a call to ridetech will verify what ones you were sent. I originally had 650s on the front but replaced them with 700s after my first autocross. The 650s rode great on the street but after my first autocross I was concerned with no adjustability (up- ore ride height) due to running out of threads. After swapping in the 700s and they sent me another lower mount (the part to goes between the spring and the nut) that gives you more (space). I haven't notcied any ride difference between the 650s and 700s after going a couple of clicks softer on the adjustment.

Just curious, what is the measurement between the ground and your subframe? I have about 4.5" and my headers hang down another .5" giving me 4 inches of clearance. I have not had any clearance issues in normal driving. Another thing you might look at is how are your motor mounts bolted on? There was a thread on this board about depending on how they were orientated your engine would either sit higher or lower. If I remember right, if the mounts were installed with the single bolt up and the 2 bolts down, the motor would sit higher (giving you more header ground clearance).

[Che70velle]

Yes sir, she's low! You should have a number etched into your coil over spring like this...if not, it will be scribed into the top (ground flat part) of the spring.
Thanks for your service, by the way!

[anarchy99]

I appreciate it, I love my job... I'll measure when I get back home, pats are playing... Fir reference though you can see where my hand hits on the subframe and only a 5 10 guy. Not calling out ride tech, I just daily drive this and my sprite and it's frustrating almost uncapping the exhaust every speed bump

[anarchy99]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsuh6huven.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsuh6huven.jpg.html)

Here's to the subframe by the collector. Again, not trying to start a war just trying to fix my problem. Hell, I'm shopping for shocks for 3 other projects as well... 1 easy, 2 interesting.

[marolf101x]

The pics earlier showed all I needed to see.
The control arm and steering arm should be parallel to the ground.

You need more spring to raise the car.

After that I suggest tucking the headers/exhaust up in the car for clearance.
Look at the underside of a new Vette. Nothing below the frame rails

[TheJDMan]

My question is, where is the top end of the spring seated? That may sound like a stupid question, but the coil is so far up on the shock body and yet is nowhere near coil bind that I'm wondering if it is actually seated in the frame spring pocket and not on the shocks upper spring mount where it should be. At least that would account for the spring not being in coil bind and the car setting so low.

[marolf101x]

Steve raises a good point. These are true coil overs, not hybrid coil overs like others offer, so there is a spring seat that connects to the shock stud.

It should look like this (notice the black spring retainer at the top of each spring:
http://www.ridetech.com/store/images/thumbnails/0/200/200/7305_short-stud-noadj.jpg

[anarchy99]

I should be able to get it into the air this weekend and snatch a set off and check both spring seat and spring rate... Would have done it today but sheered the bolts on the upper control arm on one side of my sprite while driving, wheel tucked under... Nice little pucker factor... Buddy picked me up, drove me home, grabbed another car, the jack and 2 new grade 8 3/8 x 16 bolts and fixed on base... Good times. I need to pick you guys brains about new shocks for it at some point.

[anarchy99]

Here's what I came up with, sorry, been super busy with work and the holidays.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsemaznyx5.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsemaznyx5.jpg.html)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdal0oyrd.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdal0oyrd.jpg.html)
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsisufpymg.jpg (http://s55.photobucket.com/user/jpurdy231/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsisufpymg.jpg.html)

Any thoughts on where to start to get the car raised up a few inches?

[paulk68]

Not sure on raising it but while you are working on it I would work on opening the spring pocket as well

https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a5d620b3127ccee9977abdda1100000030O11AcuGLRyzctQ e3nwo/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00509039418920150801170753349.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a5d700b3127cceea7fc9f5378400000030O01AcuGLRyzctQ e3nwo/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00509039418920150921153606544.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

[Smoker03]

Ridetech will make it right for you. That looks like a 650lb spring. I had basically the same issue. Ridetech had me go to a 700lb spring with a dropped upper collar and it was perfect.

[Josh@Ridetech]

It looks like you can go up a little more on the threads, with the spanner nut. It may not look like much but it's not uncommon that the last little bit will get most guys where everything clears. Can you measure the height of the coil spring to see how much it's compressed with weight on it?

[anarchy99]

I'll have to check when I get home... On a work trip. I do remember turning the spanner but as high as it would go though, it should be at the top of the threads

[Vega$69]

Imo you should not need to go all the way to the top of the threads to get the ride height correct.

If you have the right springs, the right length shocks and everything is installed correctly you should have some up and down adjustment room.

I have several friends with ride tech front sets ups and true turn. They all had to go back to ridetech for different shocks and springs to get the car where it needed to be.

Their support was great in each case but parts had to be swapped out to make it right.

[Josh@Ridetech]

Imo you should not need to go all the way to the top of the threads to get the ride height correct.

If you have the right springs, the right length shocks and everything is installed correctly you should have some up and down adjustment room.

I have several friends with ride tech front sets ups and true turn. They all had to go back to ridetech for different shocks and springs to get the car where it needed to be.

Their support was great in each case but parts had to be swapped out to make it right.

The Camaro kit (designed to be around a ~2" lowered stance) uses an 8" coil spring. The first thing that we'll look at is how much the spring is compressed. With the shock at driving height, the spring should measure right around 5.75" to 6". If the spring is compressing farther than the desired measurements we'll swap them out, no problem. There are several variables that can make differences from car to car, the rates we suggest are the ones that we see used the most. Because we use a linear rate spring, the more that it compresses won't affect the way that the car rides.

With a small block, these kits will use a 650lb to a 700lb rate, depending on what the car will primarily be used for. If running a big block, the spring rate can be adjusted accordingly. With the spanner nut cranked up closer to the top, it may look "different" than other setups but it's actually correct in most cases. If we get measurements, we can make sure that everything is in the perfect position.

[anarchy99]

Sorry it's been so long since I updated this, between the military keeping me gone and the holidays keeping me busy, I finally remembered to go outside to ch ck the coil measurement. It is 5 and 7/8s of an inch. What do I need to do to raise it up a few inches? Again, I'm sorry for not updating this in a timely fashion.

[marolf101x]

For now adjust the nut to the top of the threads. . . All the way.

To fix it correctly we'll have to change to a higher rate spring.

[Rod P]

For now adjust the nut to the top of the threads. . . All the way.

To fix it correctly we'll have to change to a higher rate spring.

could use the drop cap....instead of spring change...that would push the spring down almost an 1-1/2 inches on the threads placing the adjuster closer to the center of the threads
.....i use the drop cap along with heavier springs on mine

[anarchy99]

For ****s and giggles I'll turn it the maybe 1 more thread all the way to the top... Which honestly won't matter because the last time I drove the car on base it literally ripped the pipe out of the back of the header collector so bad that I'm Welding up another collector and straight pipe section as we speak. I mean it tore it up good... Can't I just buy the parts I need to fix the problem, everyone sees I have a problem and I'm getting ready to deploy and my car has to be able to move more than a few feet without worries while im gone.

[marolf101x]

It's been a while since I looked at this issue, so I went back and re-read the entire thing.

Here's what I think at this point.
You stated your installed spring height is 5.875". Since the spring has a free length of 8" and a rate of 650#, that means it has compressed 2.125" and is holding up 1381.25# (that's for each spring). I don't remember off the top of my head the exact numbers on the 48 Hour Camaro, but that doesn't sound too far off from what it should be. (I'll check the numbers after the Holidays).

From this picture it doesn't look like the car is all that low:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsft35u3ed.jpg


Compare that to the 69 we built for GoodGuys using a TruTurn:
http://www.ridetech.com/69camaro/wp-content/gallery/update-47/dsc_0197.jpg


This picture shows you can adjust the lower spring collar up maybe 3/8" (remember, whatever you adjust at the coil over will be almost twice as much at the wheel. So 3/8" at the shock gives you 3/4" at the wheel.):
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsisufpymg.jpg


Though I cannot tell exactly what the measurement is in this pic, the installed length of the coil over, from the bottom of the stock frame pocket (where the ball and socket mount pushes on the frame) to the center of the lower coil over mounting bolt should be around 12 inches. If you adjust the spring to the absolute top of the threads (covering the small, smooth gap) to attain the 12 inch measurement, then we need more spring rate:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstyoyc83l.jpg


As I don't think the car is that low, and we have adjustability at the spring, I think that the real issue is that the exhaust hangs down too far:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/jpurdy231/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsvvfdaapu.jpg


Compare that to another first gen that has nothing below the frame rails (this is Steve Hayes' Camaro which uses a DSE subgframe, but it's the best picture I've ever seen of illustrating how to keep everything under the car. . . just like your Z06):
http://hayes-ent.com/images/Camaro/Dragon129-2.jpg


If the exhaust didn't hit, would the ride height be ok?

I do think you'll likely end up with higher rate springs, but I want to make sure we get the whole story so we don't give you a higher rate then hear back in 3 weeks that the ride quality sucks.

[anarchy99]

I'll take the spanner and turn it like crazy tomorrow. I drove the car daily in San Diego with no problems with the same exhaust, just a different small block setup... It goes between iron headed XFI controlled pro charger in San Diego to aluminum headed 142 supercharged carb setup in Memphis, to moving out to Virginia beach... Iron head, carb, 406. (Here is where I added the Tru turn setup) It's the same headers, etc. i love the car... I just can't really drive it anywhere without ripping the exhaust off of it. For comparison, the Austin Healey sprite I built with a SBC and side pipes goes out of the drive way, it doesn't drag at all. Probably due to shorter wheel base, etc... But either way, I promise the springs are turned to the max and I never had a problem before. I realize I'm probably the 1% guy with an issue but I still love the product, and I love old cars.... Since I literally daily drive one every day... I just want to reliably get the one I have out of the driveway and around without issues. I'll pull the spanner out and give it hell and report back. Thanks for responding back btw. It says a lot for your service.

[dhutton]

I'll take the spanner and turn it like crazy tomorrow. I drove the car daily in San Diego with no problems with the same exhaust, just a different small block setup... It goes between iron headed XFI controlled pro charger in San Diego to aluminum headed 142 supercharged carb setup in Memphis, to moving out to Virginia beach... Iron head, carb, 406. (Here is where I added the Tru turn setup) It's the same headers, etc. i love the car... I just can't really drive it anywhere without ripping the exhaust off of it. For comparison, the Austin Healey sprite I built with a SBC and side pipes goes out of the drive way, it doesn't drag at all. Probably due to shorter wheel base, etc... But either way, I promise the springs are turned to the max and I never had a problem before. I realize I'm probably the 1% guy with an issue but I still love the product, and I love old cars.... Since I literally daily drive one every day... I just want to reliably get the one I have out of the driveway and around without issues. I'll pull the spanner out and give it hell and report back. Thanks for responding back btw. It says a lot for your service.

That exhaust is way too low. Goal is nothing below the frame rails for a lowered car as Britt said.

Don

[v8s only]

the problem is the exhaust is too low my car with a truturn looks like sits lower then yours 23 1/4 inch from the floor to the fender and i never scraped anything on the bottom of the car. my friends car had the same problem with headers to low we raised the transmission by adding spacers to the mount and helped with engine angle and problem went way.

[anarchy99]

im not changing my exhaust, unless I swap to an entirely different engine. The exhaust was fine in San Diego, it was fine in Memphis, I added the Tru turn, now turned completely up I'm ripping my exhaust off. Several people in here have agreed with exactly what I'm saying, and had similar problems. I love the setup but it's too low for me for driving in Virginia beach. Everything was fine on my car before this. I have great suspension aside from this, I just need the fix to raise my car up before deployment. The boss has to be able to move the car around while I'm gone.

[marolf101x]

The exhaust was fine before as the vehicle was at least 2" higher, therefor affording additional ground clearance at the offending collector flanges.

When you added the TruTurn you replaced the stock spindles with tall, 2" drop spindles. So the ride height, and the frame rail/motor/exhaust, is now 2" lower than it was before.

To the layman it may seem simple enough to just turn the spanner on the coil over and raise the ride height, or install higher rate springs which will artificially raise the ride height. However these ARE NOT the answer. If you raise by either method you will top out the shock. . .ride quality will suffer. . .and our 1,000,001 mile warranty go out the door (improper installation).

I designed these so the shock had 60% of travel available for compression, 40% for extension. So if you stray too far from the advised ~12 inch installed height at the coil over you will run out of shock travel.
If you install greatly higher rate springs you will not only run out of extension travel at the shock, but the increased spring rate will ride like hell.
Like I stated, you will likely end up with slightly higher spring rates (probably 700-725's). But they WILL NOT raise the ride height. That is determined by the position of the lower spring adjuster and our advised ~12-inch installed height.

If you absolutely will not change the exhaust and must raise it back up, put the stock spindles back on. But be advised that handling will suffer as the CG is raised, but more importantly, the camber gain is back to OE specs. . .which is terrible.

If you want higher rate springs we'll need to know the front/rear weight of your car as you intend to drive it. After all this discussion I need to know exactly what that car weighs to get this right!
Be aware. . .if the weight changes, so does the height.

[anarchy99]

Copy all, so keep all the other components and just swap to factory height disc spindles to get back to a 2 inch raise?

[bret]

Copy all, so keep all the other components and just swap to factory height disc spindles to get back to a 2 inch raise?

Keep in mind...if you change back to the oem spindle, in addition to raising the car by 2", the Tru Turn suspension geometry is ruined. Your headers may not drag but the car will handle worse than it did stock.

I really hope you can see your way clear to change the header/exhaust package. You and your car will be much happier. I do understand that it is extra work/expense, but it is truly the correct way to do it. One of the sad realities of building a proper hotrod.

[anarchy99]

Right now I just need the ability for the car to move and drive since I'll be deployed. Can't leave it like it is. Thanks.

[randy]

Can you raise the transmission angle up? Cut the exhaust, raise the transmission / engine angle up within tolerances, add a exhaust flex and you should be good.

Like everyone else here said its your Exhaust. Theres things that you don't see until you start messing with something else.

Your exhaust wasn't correct to begin with. Just because it worked before doesn't make it right because you had a greater margin for error with the car higher. Now your car will handle much better but the margin for error on your exhaust was exposed.

My exhaust clearance. Nothing hangs below the subframe. This was a normal 67 dynatech exhaust

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/12020034_10100678567372826_8726556770227648773_n.j pg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/12020034_10100678567372826_8726556770227648773_n.j pg.html)

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/icemanrld19/12009787_10100678567437696_2645136611571591978_n.j pg (http://s30.photobucket.com/user/icemanrld19/media/12009787_10100678567437696_2645136611571591978_n.j pg.html)

[anarchy99]

I can't even get out of the driveway with dragging the back of the car as well. Hard to route things around the BMR watts link torque arm setup in the back. Has partly to do with entry angle on driveway but also a lot on height of front end. I've even put plywood down at the driveway to solve what I can. Lowered z06 no problem, sprite with a SBC, no problem, camaro with this suspension setup, problem. I'm not concerned with how the car will handle 100 times better over stock, with this setup. Id take stock all day long right now, drove with it all day long for many years daily and it was fine. I don't have time to auto cross right now anyways with deployment lurking. I want to either go big block or ls engine in the future so I'll shelve the Tru turn for now and worry about it later.

[bret]

Yeah, put the stock spindle back on it for the moment, till you get more time to address the exhaust. Be sure to put the stock drag link and steering arms back on it too. If you don't, the bumpsteer will be so bad you'll cuss me eveytime you drive the car on the highway.
Good luck with your deployment...stay safe!

[anarchy99]

I appreciate it bro, I'll hit you guys up closer to time when I get back to figure out how to go on this one and I'm going to go to different shocks and springs on a few other vehicles. Thanks again.

[Che70velle]

Thanks for your service to this great nation! :flag2:

[marathonboats]

I agree that I appreciate it bro, I'll hit you guys up closer to time when I get back to figure out how to go on this one and I'm going to go to different shocks and springs on a few other vehicles. Thanks again.

[anarchy99]

I'm assuming that's a spammer?

[Che70velle]

I'm assuming that's a spammer?

Yes, and banned.

[anarchy99]

I was confused when I saw they just added "I agree that" to my other post.