Ousci

[hifi875]

Why is there no info on what happened this weekend?

[GregWeld]

Why is there no info on what happened this weekend?




HAHAHAHAHA! What a great question!


Maybe nobody on here cares about Evo's and GTR's??

[hifi875]

Just seems weird. That was all the talk. And now the silent treatment.

[GregWeld]

Just seems weird. That was all the talk. And now the silent treatment.



Oh trust me ---- I've mentioned that to several people....

I went to every one of them -- and worked at many of them.... this year I didn't even go.

[Che70velle]

https://clubregistration.net/clients/usca/results/overall.cfm?eventID=6906&class=OUSCI

Check out the results for yourself. Not much to talk about, on this forum. I'm sure other forums are blowing up with posts...

[dkp993]

Oh trust me ---- I've mentioned that to several people....

I went to every one of them -- and worked at many of them.... this year I didn't even go.

Have gone every year too (including this year) and while there's still plenty of American muscle to enjoy the viewing experience has become more and more disconnected. It used to be that you felt like you were apart of the action and you could often be so close you could feel the V8 rumble in your chest. This year you were standing behind fences 100's of feet from event. I personally don't enjoy sitting in a grandstand ala NASCAR.

[DBasher]

The old events, what were they? RTT...wherever, were these events year specific?
After seeing the results of OUSCI and reading about the new SCCA rules, it's got me thinking, what does the next few years looks like for these events?
Besides specific club events, is there no real classic american muscle type events?

:rolleyes:

[MtotheIKEo]

It would be nice to hear from some of those that competed. The speed stop looked like a great way to slide sideways into cones and flat spot tires from the videos I saw.

[Chad-1stGen]

Anyone know about a build thread on the Dusold Camaro? I dig the few crappy pics I've seen of it on Facebook.

[Sieg]

The event didn't get over until 6 last night, many took red-eyes home, I stayed over and got home at 4:30 this afternoon. Hopefully we'll hear more when people recover from sleep deprivation. :thumbsup:

[Matt@BOS]

Anyone know about a build thread on the Dusold Camaro? I dig the few crappy pics I've seen of it on Facebook.

I know he has a least a few shots of the chassis on Facebook. It's pretty cool! The car used to have stock floors and frame rails...

[DBasher]

I know he has a least a few shots of the chassis on Facebook. It's pretty cool! The car used to have stock floors and frame rails...

WOW! That's a bad ass race car!

[Richio1]

Have gone every year too (including this year) and while there's still plenty of American muscle to enjoy the viewing experience has become more and more disconnected. It used to be that you felt like you were apart of the action and you could often be so close you could feel the V8 rumble in your chest. This year you were standing behind fences 100's of feet from event. I personally don't enjoy sitting in a grandstand ala NASCAR.

I agree. This was my 3rd year attending and I left feeling disappointed. I would say I enjoyed Pahrump the most. Goldberg was cheesie but entertaining. It was mainly muscle cars with a few exotics and modern cars. Now that has done a 180. So many new Camaros and Mustangs with a handful of Porsches and Evos.

Pretty difficult for the PT crowd to compete with all the modern technology, ABS, AWD, etc.

We need our own series. Pre 75 would be a blast. It would be like an old Trans Am series club race. In a year or two there will only be a couple PT cars out there.

I also agree with how disconnected it felt. I even liked last years set up better. This years was way too spread out.

I got a free hat though.

[hifi875]

Guess,it's like any other event. Starts out real fun and after a few years it gets real serious real fast. Just look at good guys autocross. It started out small and fun Now it's turned into a all out competition with purpose built race cars instead of street cars and points etc. not that it's a bad thing. Just different

[MarkM66]

When the same guy wins three years in a row, it's not much of a search anymore, ;)

[GregWeld]

When the same guy wins three years in a row, it's not much of a search anymore, ;)



I spent a lot of time doing lap time comparisons for the road course and the autocross.... The times show driver talent... they show SEAT TIME (very important!)...


Danny Popp wins because he has SERIOUS TALENT..... and that floats to the top. His car is well prepped.... but it's his talent that wins. If a guy goes out and runs 1:40 -- he goes out and lays down a 1:39...

There are a few people with the talent and seat time to run near or at the top -- but a couple of them had issues at the track so knocked them out of contention. Hobaugh and Rozzelle should have faired better but had car troubles....

I'm serious about the talent statement.... as I've timed Popp in a V6 Camaro RENTAL CAR on skinny ass little tires laying down 2:19 at Thunderhill with the Crows Nest.... my all out track car has run a best of 2:05 and typically runs 2:10's with traffic on track....

[Sieg]

When the same guy wins three years in a row, it's not much of a search anymore, ;)
Two years in a row and due to the Evo's road course finishing positions. Evo's were 1 & 2 on the podium in AutoX and Speed Stop, 2 & 3 on the Road Course.
The timing margins were very tight.

AWD is a big advantage. Remember when Audi entered the Trans Am Series and dominated, then were basically regulated out with handicap measures?

My guess is there will be some class alterations made in the future.

The spirit of the competition is awesome, the cars are secondary and that's why the series is a success. It's like an annual reunion of people you want to be around in the pits at this event.

[GrabberGT]

I've poured over the results longer than I'd like to admit. Initially I felt dumbfounded by the lack of ProTouring cars at the top of the list. Even the regulars like Kyle Tucker, Mike Maier, Jake Rozelle, Mary... were well below what I expected them to be. But thinking back, I've kind of ignored the other classes this season only focussing on my own. In reality, we've been out performed all year long and when you stack up all the GTS, GTL, and GT winners from 9 other events it makes a lot more sense. Makes me wish the finals were segmented just as the rest of the season was. In order for a Musclecar to do really well at this event you'd really have to take the musclecar out of it. Those builds, though impressive, are not what Im interested in racing against. Here is the GTV class for those interested:

Year Vehicle Driver Car # Road Rally Design Hot Lap Autocross Speed Stop Score Rank
1966 Ford Mustang Mike Maier 42 25 20.1333 7.98 6.75 12 71.8633 12
1970 Chevrolet Camaro Kyle Tucker 38 25 21.1667 7.77 6.54 9 69.4767 17
1969 Chevrolet Camaro Jake Rozelle 27 25 19.5667 6.54 7.36 7.16 65.6267 22
1972 Chevrolet Nova Billy Utley 17 25 20.8667 4.7 5.93 5.11 61.6067 27
1969 Chevrolet Camaro Mark Stielow 62 25 20.1 7.16 3.67 4.49 60.42 28
1972 Chevrolet Corvette Chris Smith 48 25 20.1667 3.47 1 7.36 56.9967 33
1973 Chevrolet Camaro RS Mary Pozzi 77 25 20.2667 2.03 7.57 1 55.8667 34
1967 Chevrolet Camaro James Shipka 46 25 18.5 5.11 4.49 1.42 54.52 37
1968 Chevrolet Camaro Larry Woo 5 25 19.7 1.62 5.52 1 52.84 40
1969 Dodge Charger Matthew Butts 75 25 22.9 1 1 1 50.9 44
1978 Ford Mustang Brett Behrens 87 25 22.6667 1 1 1 50.6667 46
1968 Chevrolet C10 Jay Weir 89 25 20.5667 1.83 1 2.24 50.6367 47
1967 Chevrolet Camaro Steve Keefer 90 25 22.3333 1 1 1 50.3333 49
1966 Chevrolet corvair JB Granger 28 25 22.1333 1 1 1 50.1333 50
1969 Chevrolet chevelle Nick Weber 45 25 21.9667 1 1 1 49.9667 53
1965 Chevrolet Corvette Greg Thurmond 92 25 17.3 1 1 5.52 49.82 54
1970 Chevrolet Chevelle Tony Grzelakowski 73 25 18.4667 1 1 3.26 48.7267 56
1972 Chevrolet C10R Brandy Phillips 72 25 20.3333 1 1 1 48.3333 59
1966 Ford Mustang Michael Hamrick 84 25 19.8333 1 1 1 47.8333 65
1964 Chevrolet Corvette Jane Thurmond 68 25 19.6333 1 1 1 47.6333 66
1964 Plymouth Valiant Signet 200 Kevin Tully 66 25 19.4667 1 1 1 47.4667 67
1973 Chevrolet Camaro Jim Stehlin 33 25 18.4333 1 1.83 1 47.2633 69
1969 Chevrolet Camaro Efrain Diaz 69 25 18.7333 1 1 1 46.7333 70
1966 Datsun 520 Truck Bob Boileau 56 25 15.8333 1 1.21 1 44.0433 80

[E.rodz]

it was a cool event to finally get to go check out! the amount of super awesome cars was astounding to say the least! I was watching cars in the brake stop challenge and it was night and day to see people with abs. seemed to have a complete advantage on cars that did not have it and way easier on tires! watching the awd. cars on the autocross was mind blowing as well! this combined with launch control looks to be a almost unfair advantage. even though it is avail. in aftermarket form for older cars I think 2 classes should be in order modern and pre 1990 . it is really cool to see the difference that technology can do to improve the speed and control of the cars. just seams like there should be a couple different classes so it is not the one with the most money wins and i agree there quite a difference in driving skills as well i could have all of these advantages and still not beat Danny Popp in a stock rental car! the whole idea of this event is just awesome and i can't wait to see how this event evolves.I want to thank everyone that made this whole event possible without these people an event like this would not even exist!

[Tom.A]

When the same guy wins three years in a row, it's not much of a search anymore, ;)

I agree..I went the first couple of years and enjoyed it but the same cars keep coming back became boring. Then the Golden Ticket cars that are just like seat fillers (some not all) at the Oscars that don't hardly get flogged added to that same feeling.

It's clear he is a winner, but I have to say it would be way more impressive if he showed up in his own C3 and won

[JKnight]

I think it may have been Rodger from Ironworks who predicted a number of years back that these "fun" events would go the way of drag-week and eventually would eliminate many of the average-joe's from contention. That's ok if it's the way they wanted it to go, but you do have to wonder if the RTTx casual format will be missed by participants.

disclaimer: I don't know crap cause my car hasn't run in 5 years, so there's that...

[MarkM66]

Two years in a row and due to the Evo's road course finishing positions. Evo's were 1 & 2 on the podium in AutoX and Speed Stop, 2 & 3 on the Road Course.
The timing margins were very tight.

AWD is a big advantage. Remember when Audi entered the Trans Am Series and dominated, then were basically regulated out with handicap measures?

My guess is there will be some class alterations made in the future.

The spirit of the competition is awesome, the cars are secondary and that's why the series is a success. It's like an annual reunion of people you want to be around in the pits at this event.

Gotcha. Saw three time winner on FB. Was thinking it was consecutive.

[Chad-1stGen]

I think it may have been Rodger from Ironworks who predicted a number of years back that these "fun" events would go the way of drag-week and eventually would eliminate many of the average-joe's from contention. That's ok if it's the way they wanted it to go, but you do have to wonder if the RTTx casual format will be missed by participants.

disclaimer: I don't know crap cause my car hasn't run in 5 years, so there's that...

From a participants point of view if you really just want to hang with buddies and bench race more than thrash on your car the old Run to the Coast is hard to beat. It might not be fair to compare those earlier RTTC events to the Optima events of 2015 but the Optimia events from my perspective were about 10x as fun as the RTTC events. Optima is way more organized and efficient in conducting their events which translates into a lot more seat time, which at the end of the day is what I'm personally paying for. I love the mix of cars at the Optima USCA (as opposed to invitational) events and there are a great group of people that makes the events special. But at the end of the day there is no way in hell I'd continue to fork over $500 if I didn't get a lot of seat time as that is the funnest part :)

[Blake Foster]

I think it may have been Rodger from Ironworks who predicted a number of years back that these "fun" events would go the way of drag-week and eventually would eliminate many of the average-joe's from contention. That's ok if it's the way they wanted it to go, but you do have to wonder if the RTTx casual format will be missed by participants.

disclaimer: I don't know crap cause my car hasn't run in 5 years, so there's that...

I think I said that a few years ago as well. It will always happen. Those of us who sell products and need to prove them are in a hard position. You need to go, you need to do something, but like us, is finishing 47 good or bad?

There were some 40 odd cars behind us, we did not bring a race car and I guess shame on us. But even the 5th gen DSE race car only finished 15th. and Kyle finished 17th
6 of the top 10 were import race cars.
The event is fun and good to see where you actually stack up against some of the fastest cars out there.
When a guy like Mark builds Hellfire and can't get in the top 10, I would say there is little hope a muscle car will ever win the event again.

I agree that it might be cool to have a Muscle Car class. and then at least it would be more reprehensive of what WE LIKE but it also is not all about US

It is called the ULTIMATE Street car and I think the only thing that has gotten away is the "STREET" part of it. An Evo with a sequential 6 speed and FiA race seat, fire system and full cage is not a STREET CAR. but knowing that don't bring a knife to a gun fight and expect to win.
I think its funny that in 2010 my Nova finished 5th over all, then we bring a C10 this year which is even better and finish 47th.
it is all good competition for sure great people, good friends, and all good.

Jimi and crew have done a great job promoting the series and Optima has seen the benefit of it and continues to spend the money on it, with out those 2 components there is NOTHING.

[DOOM]

I think I said that a few years ago as well. It will always happen. Those of us who sell products and need to prove them are in a hard position. You need to go, you need to do something, but like us, is finishing 47 good or bad?

There were some 40 odd cars behind us, we did not bring a race car and I guess shame on us. But even the 5th gen DSE race car only finished 15th. and Kyle finished 17th
6 of the top 10 were import race cars.
The event is fun and good to see where you actually stack up against some of the fastest cars out there.
When a guy like Mark builds Hellfire and can't get in the top 10, I would say there is little hope a muscle car will ever win the event again.

I agree that it might be cool to have a Muscle Car class. and then at least it would be more reprehensive of what WE LIKE but it also is not all about US

It is called the ULTIMATE Street car and I think the only thing that has gotten away is the "STREET" part of it. An Evo with a sequential 6 speed and FiA race seat, fire system and full cage is not a STREET CAR. but knowing that don't bring a knife to a gun fight and expect to win.
I think its funny that in 2010 my Nova finished 5th over all, then we bring a C10 this year which is even better and finish 47th.
it is all good competition for sure great people, good friends, and all good.

Jimi and crew have done a great job promoting the series and Optima has seen the benefit of it and continues to spend the money on it, with out those 2 components there is NOTHING.

Nuff said!

[DBasher]

Well said Blake:thumbsup: As long as the GTV class exists I'd like to see the manufactures showing up and competing. Waaay cooler to see the products getting hammered on then sitting on a shelf!

Defining "street car" is going to be the issue. I remember pitting next to Filip with CorteX in 2011. That car had people crying fowl back then....what's next? Tube chassis, carbon/fiberglass bodied race cars with plates.....can't wait!:lol:

[PTAddict]

I spent a lot of time doing lap time comparisons for the road course and the autocross.... The times show driver talent... they show SEAT TIME (very important!)...


Danny Popp wins because he has SERIOUS TALENT..... and that floats to the top. His car is well prepped.... but it's his talent that wins. If a guy goes out and runs 1:40 -- he goes out and lays down a 1:39...

There are a few people with the talent and seat time to run near or at the top -- but a couple of them had issues at the track so knocked them out of contention. Hobaugh and Rozzelle should have faired better but had car troubles....

I'm serious about the talent statement.... as I've timed Popp in a V6 Camaro RENTAL CAR on skinny ass little tires laying down 2:19 at Thunderhill with the Crows Nest.... my all out track car has run a best of 2:05 and typically runs 2:10's with traffic on track....

It's hard to appreciate how good guys like Popp and Rozelle are until you watch them in person. I can run advanced class without embarrassing myself, but I can't imagine ever being able to wheel a car like that.

Watching the speed stop the first day, everybody is kind of tiptoeing up to the limit, improving by half a second or so every run. Then Popp comes out on his first run, comes shrieking off the corner in a barely controlled full-on drift, jams it into the box and puts down a time less than half a second from the best all day. I repeat, on his first run. It was awesome to watch.

[Blake Foster]

....what's next? Tube chassis, carbon/fiberglass bodied race cars with plates.....can't wait!:lol:

that's the plan :idea:

[JKnight]

Yep, you're right on Blake.

To Chad's point, it probably doesn't matter to most people where they place, as long as the car performs up to their expectations and they get wheel time.

It really is true that if Mark can't get a Top 10, the rest of the classics don't stand a chance.

[USCA 1]

Thanks for the feedback and discussion. As always, its a tough balancing act to make the events fun, relevant to the industry, a good investment for sponsors, and compelling for spectators. We do our absolute best to manage all of these into something that works for most. We know it's not going to appeal to everyone, but we truly feel we have elevated this hobby into something that has been beneficial to a lot of participants and businesses.

We also feel that for the $500 entry fee, to get the amount of seat time we provide on some of the best and well known tracks around the country is a great value.

Last year, we added a GTV class to make sure that we kept the vintage cars relevant and had a place for them. This series and event was built on the passion and enthusiasm of pro-touring car owners, and we don't want to see them excluded or come out with nothing to compete for. With that in mind, we are considering restructuring the points for 2016 to better recognize real street cars and this will also serve to help the GTV participants have a fighting chance to score well.

The "real street car" is a difficult thing to define. It used to be licensed for the street. We all know now that it doesn't really take much to get a plate and registration - but please don't lay that at the feet of the import car owners. There are plenty of GTV owners that stretch that definition as well. Race car themed is the definition of pro-touring - where does it end and what's acceptable vs. not acceptable?

The OUSCI and USCA series is completely non-denominational, we like all performance street cars. It's inevitable that some are going to outperform others. We don't dictate what kind of car that each participant decides to run - we just provide the playground for all of them to play together. Remember, right from the beginning, our message has always been about safety, fun, education and then competition. We reward the winners with a 10" trophy and some points. No money, no driving contracts, no move to a competitive series, just a trophy. The competition is driven by the participants, not the series.

We provide lots of seat time for a very reasonable price on some of the best tracks around the country. There are a few that take advantage of the rules, and then we tweak them, then there are a few more that take advantage of those - it's a never ending cycle. Don't be angry at the series or series sponsors; maybe have a chat with those that play in the gray area and let them know your thoughts. We will continue to put out the effort to bring you an affordable and fun series of events that are well organized and relevant to our industry. Thanks again for the feedback.

2015 OUSCI stats:

28 - GTV cars - 33% of the field
27 - GT American made (Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, Dodge) - 32% of the field
55 American made and GTV cars - 65.4% of the field
29 - Import cars (Mitsubishi, Porsche, Lotus, BMW, Subaru, Lamborghini) - 34% of the field

[Blake Foster]

Thanks for the feedback and discussion. As always, its a tough balancing act to make the events fun, relevant to the industry, a good investment for sponsors, and compelling for spectators. We do our absolute best to manage all of these into something that works for most. We know it's not going to appeal to everyone, but we truly feel we have elevated this hobby into something that has been beneficial to a lot of participants and businesses.

We also feel that for the $500 entry fee, to get the amount of seat time we provide on some of the best and well known tracks around the country is a great value.

Last year, we added a GTV class to make sure that we kept the vintage cars relevant and had a place for them. This series and event was built on the passion and enthusiasm of pro-touring car owners, and we don't want to see them excluded or come out with nothing to compete for. With that in mind, we are considering restructuring the points for 2016 to better recognize real street cars and this will also serve to help the GTV participants have a fighting chance to score well.

The "real street car" is a difficult thing to define. It used to be licensed for the street. We all know now that it doesn't really take much to get a plate and registration - but please don't lay that at the feet of the import car owners. There are plenty of GTV owners that stretch that definition as well. Race car themed is the definition of pro-touring - where does it end and what's acceptable vs. not acceptable?

The OUSCI and USCA series is completely non-denominational, we like all performance street cars. It's inevitable that some are going to outperform others. We don't dictate what kind of car that each participant decides to run - we just provide the playground for all of them to play together. Remember, right from the beginning, our message has always been about safety, fun, education and then competition. We reward the winners with a 10" trophy and some points. No money, no driving contracts, no move to a competitive series, just a trophy. The competition is driven by the participants, not the series.

We provide lots of seat time for a very reasonable price on some of the best tracks around the country. There are a few that take advantage of the rules, and then we tweak them, then there are a few more that take advantage of those - it's a never ending cycle. Don't be angry at the series or series sponsors; maybe have a chat with those that play in the gray area and let them know your thoughts. We will continue to put out the effort to bring you an affordable and fun series of events that are well organized and relevant to our industry. Thanks again for the feedback.

ALL GREAT points, and I doubt any of the participants are complaining I certainly was NOT. We beat our expectations (top 50) knowing that was realistic, the event was well run for sure, smooth well organized on time to the schedule.
From a spectators POV there were limited spots to watch the road course from and that could be improved.
:king:

[USCA 1]

From a spectators POV there were limited spots to watch the road course from and that could be improved.
:king:

Thanks Blake - agreed, there is limited viewing on the road course, this is an issue that every road course in the country struggles with and is the sole reason that NASCAR oval races rate so much higher than both Formula 1 and Indy Car road course races.

We are already working with LVMS to improve spectator viewing for 2016.

[Blake Foster]

Thanks Blake - agreed, there is limited viewing on the road course, this is an issue that every road course in the country struggles with and is the sole reason that NASCAR oval races rate so much higher than both Formula 1 and Indy Car road course races.

We are already working with LVMS to improve spectator viewing for 2016.

I HEAR YA!!! Nature of the event.

[Bad94]

When the same guy wins three years in a row, it's not much of a search anymore, ;)





Danny Popp wins because he has SERIOUS TALENT..... and that floats to the top. His car is well prepped.... but it's his talent that wins. If a guy goes out and runs 1:40 -- he goes out and lays down a 1:39...


I'm serious about the talent statement.... as I've timed Popp in a V6 Camaro RENTAL CAR on skinny ass little tires laying down 2:19 at Thunderhill with the Crows Nest.... my all out track car has run a best of 2:05 and typically runs 2:10's with traffic on track....


The last 2 years we have done a TON of work on the car all year long to get the car this fast. A lot of people don't know how many hours we have in the car. I don't even want to think about it.

Last year Brandon would have won, but had engine trouble on the road course. This year Danny's Vette was set on kill.

But then again Danny is a GREAT driver

[96z28ss]

I missed the very first OUSCI, but I went to all the other ones, even volunteered couple times.
Last year was the year where I hung out in Greg's trailer more than I did watching. It just doesn't have the Lat-G appeal anymore.
I'd much rather see Mark tearing up the course in his latest first gen Camaro, than Danny tearing it up in a C5. I can watch C5's, Evo's, 5th Gen Camaro's, Mustangs, on any given weekend at the local track day.

Where are all the C5, 5th gen Camaro, Evo, Porsche, Subaru, performance parts sponsors for these events. If that's the direction this event is heading in, then why would some of these sponsors stay, when the cars they cater to are at the bottom of the list.

[BonzoHansen]

Was there so much time in between laps in past years? We thought in the past a competitor could get all their ss or autox laps in faster. Keeping the car and tires warm, getting right back out there. We felt there was a lot more waiting between laps this time. Are we wrong about that?

Id also be curious if drivers had trouble with cold tires, it was a bit chilly.

[rustomatic]

I've been to a couple of the USCA events, both as worker and driver, and have to agree that they are exceptionally well-run, which is purely the result of the passion (a word I genuinely hate) we all have for the hobby (avoiding the term "sport"--we all have mirrors here). Many of us have just as much fun watching and hanging as we do driving (for far fewer dollars, might I add).

Chad made the exceptional point here (of two): We drive in these events (most of us) to have as much legal fun as possible with crazily capable cars. The USCA events give us the course/track time to literally beat our cars to death. Other events that involve autocross, not so much, unless it's a weird day. USCA gives decent value for those really trying to squeeze the most from their contraptions.

On the topic of the Evo (and other modern cars of its ilk), I remember Mike Maier consistently beating them a couple of years ago. They've chosen to up their game a bit more than Mike has this year . . . When I saw full-on tractor-trailers (not talking Greg Weld rolling out the barbecue here) delivering loads of fully-prepped, non-street race cars at Thunderhill earlier this year, I could see very well (or not, since I didn't really care) that something had changed (or didn't). What-evs. I wasn't likely to ever actually compete (like most of us here) . . . but I will also never pay to see a new Camaro or Mustang lap a track.

I just want to see the Dusold Camaro in person--that thing is ridiculously awesome (and only a Camaro by suggestion/sheet metal--look closely). More importantly, I get the sense that a lot of people pass it right by (on foot, not in a driving sense) . . . this inspires my own idiotic and stagnated build. :bur2:

[GregWeld]

Very well put..... and I think everyone here fully understands the issues. To have great events - you have to have great sponsors.... These events have to cost a small fortune to put on. They MUST be "inclusive".... the car hobby is as diverse as we all are personally. "We" (Pro Touring) are just a small subset of that hobby. "We" just like to root for what draws US to this stuff... The import guys probably don't give two hoots to watch some "old" Camaro run around...

The fact that you are willing to hear (read) what's being "thought" and talked about... and seem open and willing to look at changes (maybe) going forward says one hell of a lot to me. I have no idea what that would look like - there are so many variables!

It would, however, be fun to be able to see a split along "old and new" -- where some recognition is given to those that have basically hand built their cars. Not that the imports and newer cars haven't been, or that they have any less effort put into them..... but there ARE differences which should be recognized.

The first thing I'd ditch is the design points.... let that be a separate trophy -- but not included in the part that we all want to see --- how well the cars and drivers perform. If we wanted looks we'd go to a car show. It's just way too subjective and personal. Times/data speak for themselves and are indisputable.







Thanks for the feedback and discussion. As always, its a tough balancing act to make the events fun, relevant to the industry, a good investment for sponsors, and compelling for spectators. We do our absolute best to manage all of these into something that works for most. We know it's not going to appeal to everyone, but we truly feel we have elevated this hobby into something that has been beneficial to a lot of participants and businesses.

We also feel that for the $500 entry fee, to get the amount of seat time we provide on some of the best and well known tracks around the country is a great value.

Last year, we added a GTV class to make sure that we kept the vintage cars relevant and had a place for them. This series and event was built on the passion and enthusiasm of pro-touring car owners, and we don't want to see them excluded or come out with nothing to compete for. With that in mind, we are considering restructuring the points for 2016 to better recognize real street cars and this will also serve to help the GTV participants have a fighting chance to score well.

The "real street car" is a difficult thing to define. It used to be licensed for the street. We all know now that it doesn't really take much to get a plate and registration - but please don't lay that at the feet of the import car owners. There are plenty of GTV owners that stretch that definition as well. Race car themed is the definition of pro-touring - where does it end and what's acceptable vs. not acceptable?

The OUSCI and USCA series is completely non-denominational, we like all performance street cars. It's inevitable that some are going to outperform others. We don't dictate what kind of car that each participant decides to run - we just provide the playground for all of them to play together. Remember, right from the beginning, our message has always been about safety, fun, education and then competition. We reward the winners with a 10" trophy and some points. No money, no driving contracts, no move to a competitive series, just a trophy. The competition is driven by the participants, not the series.

We provide lots of seat time for a very reasonable price on some of the best tracks around the country. There are a few that take advantage of the rules, and then we tweak them, then there are a few more that take advantage of those - it's a never ending cycle. Don't be angry at the series or series sponsors; maybe have a chat with those that play in the gray area and let them know your thoughts. We will continue to put out the effort to bring you an affordable and fun series of events that are well organized and relevant to our industry. Thanks again for the feedback.

2015 OUSCI stats:

28 - GTV cars - 33% of the field
27 - GT American made (Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, Dodge) - 32% of the field
55 American made and GTV cars - 65.4% of the field
29 - Import cars (Mitsubishi, Porsche, Lotus, BMW, Subaru, Lamborghini) - 34% of the field

[DBasher]

I just want to see the Dusold Camaro in person--that thing is ridiculously awesome (and only a Camaro by suggestion/sheet metal--look closely).

YES! From what I've seen online its a wicked lil track star....speaking of, doesn't Ron Sutton offer a tube frame street legal something er other?

I'll be at T-Hill in February to take it all in again...and see if we can better our times from this year. Looking forward to the new Unlimited class (USCA, think about it!)
:thumbsup:

[clill]

Where is info on the Feb Thunderhill event ?

[DBasher]

Charlie, I saw a post on the Facebook with the dates and tracks for next year.
The highlights for the western events...
T-Hill, February 27-28
Vegas, April 23-24
COTA, August 6-7
Auto Club Speedway October 8-9

Slap some Camaro sheet metal on one of your nazcars, hang a plate and come play!

[So Cal Camaro]

Where are all the C5, 5th gen Camaro, Evo, Porsche, Subaru, performance parts sponsors for these events. If that's the direction this event is heading in, then why would some of these sponsors stay, when the cars they cater to are at the bottom of the list.

The sponsors like Detroit Speed offer suspension parts for 5th gens, in addition to Vintage cars, K&N/Spectre offer parts for all year cars, Falken doesn't care if the car is new or old using their tires. Same for Lingenfelter, Holley & Wilwood brakes, they all sell parts for all year cars. The sponsors have adapted to the new world, so while you all like to complain about c5 Corvettes, Evo's or 5th gen Camaro's running in the event, if we didn't run, there would likely be no events as the Vintage guys are not coming out in force to the USCA qualifier events.

There were only 128 GTV cars registered all year at the 9 USCA events, and about 30 of those participated in more than one event to try and qualify for the OUSCI event. If the vintage cars want to be represented in greater numbers all they have to do is sign up and accumulate enough points to make the big show, like the EVO guys from RS Motors did.

They limit the number of entries, so fill the field at each event with as many vintage cars as you all can. USCA and Optima put on great events that provide all of us with a playground to drive the piss out of our cars and get some great seat time, which I do with a lot of friends at events. Do I ever expect to win the event? No, Do I have any less fun seeing where I stack up? No and I finished 57th overall...I am happily looking forward to the 2016 season!

[Sieg]

Not that the imports and newer cars haven't been, or that they have any less effort put into them..... but there ARE differences which should be recognized.
They did beta test a import handicapping system at the Speed Stop Challenge on Saturday.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Bn8cWqm/0/XL/i-Bn8cWqm-XL.jpg

[bret]

In ANY competitive series...soccer, football, car shows, and car racing...there are challenges and no shortage of opinions on how to resolve them. That is why there are MANY such series...each one has something unique to offer and typically caters to a specific audience of participants and spectators.
Up to this point I think the Optima Series has tried to be focused on the participant. As Jimi pointed out, there is no other series that offers as much seat time AND access to brand name tracks as USCA. They have invested a huge amount of time, money, and effort to create a competitive and fun environment for competitors.
And they have arrived. In 2016 there will be a waiting list for entries for many of these events [its already happened this year].
Now they can [hopefully] concentrate on improving the spectator experience, both in person and remotely [TV, livestream, etc.].

The Indy 500 is arguably the most popular race in the world. It is over 100 years old. In 1904 is was not the most popular race in the world.

I was not able to run nearly as many Optima events in 2015 as I wanted to. Like most other people, I have other obligations that sometimes take precedence. In 2016 I may run even fewer only because of the locations of the events and the timing compared to other commitments.
BUT...I still stand by the USCA format and viability of that format. Danny Popp won that event because he was the best combination of car and driver. Chris Smith in our 48 Hour Corvette was the 33rd best this year. What will it take for us to win that event next year?

I'm not sure I care. Our goals are simple:

1. build a fast car to develop and test our suspension components
2. demonstrate how those components perform
3. enjoy ourselves during this process
3. try not to spend ourselves broke doing the above

For us, no matter the official standings...mission accomplished.

Would I like to win? Sure, everyone wants to be the best. But it is only one path to success...we have many.

I know that Jimi Day and Cam Douglass are watching this thread with great interest. They CRAVE constructive criticism [and certainly have the ability to ignore simple whining]. I would encourage everyone to keep these ideas coming...offering detailed opinions if relevant...to help improve the series.

[GregWeld]

The sponsors like Detroit Speed offer suspension parts for 5th gens, in addition to Vintage cars, K&N/Spectre offer parts for all year cars, Falken doesn't care if the car is new or old using their tires. Same for Lingenfelter, Holley & Wilwood brakes, they all sell parts for all year cars. The sponsors have adapted to the new world, so while you all like to complain about c5 Corvettes, Evo's or 5th gen Camaro's running in the event, if we didn't run, there would likely be no events as the Vintage guys are not coming out in force to the USCA qualifier events.

There were only 128 GTV cars registered all year at the 9 USCA events, and about 30 of those participated in more than one event to try and qualify for the OUSCI event. If the vintage cars want to be represented in greater numbers all they have to do is sign up and accumulate enough points to make the big show, like the EVO guys from RS Motors did.

They limit the number of entries, so fill the field at each event with as many vintage cars as you all can. USCA and Optima put on great events that provide all of us with a playground to drive the piss out of our cars and get some great seat time, which I do with a lot of friends at events. Do I ever expect to win the event? No, Do I have any less fun seeing where I stack up? No and I finished 57th overall...I am happily looking forward to the 2016 season!




That is EXACTLY what needed to be said.... Sign up & Participate. The series started with "us" -- "us" didn't show up to play.

[Blake Foster]

I'm not sure I care. Our goals are simple:

1. build a fast car to develop and test our suspension components
2. demonstrate how those components perform
3. enjoy ourselves during this process
3. try not to spend ourselves broke doing the above

For us, no matter the official standings...mission accomplished.

Would I like to win? Sure, everyone wants to be the best. But it is only one path to success...we have many.

MY thoughts EXACTLY Bret. #3 being the MOST important

[Matt@BOS]

That is EXACTLY what needed to be said.... Sign up & Participate. The series started with "us" -- "us" didn't show up to play.

I wonder how many of "us" had finished running, driving cars that we took completely apart or new cars that were supposed to be "simple" street/track oriented builds that "should" have been done at the beginning of this year. :lol:

[GregWeld]

I wonder how many of "us" had finished running, driving cars that we took completely apart or new cars that were supposed to be "simple" street/track oriented builds that "should" have been done at the beginning of this year. :lol:



98 out of 100




LOL

[mfain]

I am example of the type of guy that slowly got legislated out of Optima. Granted, most of that is because my project build has taken way too long - my bad, but there is a lot of satisfaction in the build. I have stock frame rails in a vintage car, but not much else. Then there was the "it needs roll-up windows" issue, and lately the restriction on big wings. Couple that with the fact that other sanctioning bodies where you might get much needed track time have mandated more extensive safety restrictions (full cage, changing requirements for cage bar configurations, seat and seat mounting restrictions, etc.) and you end up with a race car with license plates. But that is what you have to do if you are going to be even the least bit competitive with the technically advanced late model stuff. So now I will target the Ultimate Track Car Challenge. I bought an older NASA Spec Focus to complete the required competition licensing program (actually a ball, and cheap to operate). I have a C6Z/Z07 and an ACR on order, but what fun would they be (not to mention the wear and tear) just to be in the middle of the late model, store-bought crowd. I think I would vote for a "street legal" super unlimited class - build it, drive it (legally) to the track, regardless of make or model, and may the best car win THAT class.

Pappy

[DBasher]

Bring on the Unlimited class!! The more I look at the Dusold Camaro the more I know that these builds need a place to run. Tube chassis, full cage, twin turbo LS7...who wouldn't want to see that run?

As long as they can complete the road portion and show that they're legal in their home state they should be able to run. Look at the draw that the ProMod "streetcars" bring at Drag Week.....trickle down engineering :lol:

[Gscherer78ta]

I was one of the Vintage guys to participate and I had a blast doing it! I was very happy with my results and at the end of the day, the event made me feel like I was truly a race car driver. I am just doing this for fun and won't ever be competitive because of Bret's rule no 3. I'm not complaining here, where I spend my money is my choice alone. I will keep coming to as many events as my budget allows and I'll have a blast doing so with the equipment I have.

It's curious to me that more of the builds on this site and Pro-touring don't attend, I read a lot about old cars not being competitive with the modern Vette's, Mustangs and Camaro's and certainly there are people driving those cars that are incredibly fast. The super fast ones that seem to get the most attention on here are not the majority though. I wish that was the message being portrayed here! There are many folks driving their modern cars that aren't the fastest. Recall a few years ago Danny was driving a vintage car and was winning back then too...

[Chad-1stGen]

The sponsors like Detroit Speed offer suspension parts for 5th gens, in addition to Vintage cars, K&N/Spectre offer parts for all year cars, Falken doesn't care if the car is new or old using their tires. Same for Lingenfelter, Holley & Wilwood brakes, they all sell parts for all year cars. The sponsors have adapted to the new world, so while you all like to complain about c5 Corvettes, Evo's or 5th gen Camaro's running in the event, if we didn't run, there would likely be no events as the Vintage guys are not coming out in force to the USCA qualifier events.

There were only 128 GTV cars registered all year at the 9 USCA events, and about 30 of those participated in more than one event to try and qualify for the OUSCI event. If the vintage cars want to be represented in greater numbers all they have to do is sign up and accumulate enough points to make the big show, like the EVO guys from RS Motors did.

They limit the number of entries, so fill the field at each event with as many vintage cars as you all can. USCA and Optima put on great events that provide all of us with a playground to drive the piss out of our cars and get some great seat time, which I do with a lot of friends at events. Do I ever expect to win the event? No, Do I have any less fun seeing where I stack up? No and I finished 57th overall...I am happily looking forward to the 2016 season!

That is EXACTLY what needed to be said.... Sign up & Participate. The series started with "us" -- "us" didn't show up to play.

I can't agree with this sentiment more. I think the variety of cars at USCA events is great and just hope us vintage protouring guys can continue to show up in reasonable numbers. I already was a huge fan of the class system introduced (GTV, GT, GTL, etc.) and maybe some version of that can make it to the OUSCI too. Maybe there continues to be the "ultimate street car" crowned with some other recognition for class winners?

Regarding the number of GTV guys... The population of protouring cars in general is already a fairly small segment of the overall car hobby. Look at Goodguys events. These events are targeted towards older/vintage cars and draws thousands and thousands of cars to each show and when you walk around how many of them are trully build with a focus on protouring/handling beyond some big wheels and bling?. I'd say well under 10%. Of that group less than 100 actually participate in the autocross portion.

Then look at open track days. In SoCal I see people of all walks of life from 18 year olds with beater civics to older wealthy dudes with bad ass race cars at these events. What I don't see are other vintage muscle cars unless I attend a USCA event or shelby club event. out of 80-90 cars that typically attend an open track day in SoCal I'm 99% of the time the only one.

If series like USCA are to continue to grow I think they have to appeal to a pretty broad group of participants.

All I know is that I can't wait to attend some USCA events in 2016! And for any of my fellow GTV type car owners on the fence about coming because you think you won't be competitive.... just come out and try it! There is a reason that when Jimi goes over goals of each event that competition is way down at 4th. I tell people all the time that I can always go home happy with a smile on my face when I attend any event as long as I improve throughout the day. My #1 "competition" is myself and I love it when my last lap in autocross or session on the road course yields my fastest time regardless of where my overall rank is.

[Panteracer]

I remember years ago some of the new vettes came out and
SCCA autocross boys finally had to make a B-Street prepared vintage
class for the Older Vettes.. then a Mazda twin turbo car came out and
was later moved out of the newer Vette class... I was running E-Street
prepared (pony cars) and the 4wd Subaru was put in the class and later the EVO

Classes are tough to regulate...

Optima is the gauge of how someone can do against everyone
Trying to have one set of rules is difficult.. I think they have done
a pretty good job... Everyone wants to do this event and with
all the qualifiers you can run any of them and maybe make the big show

I have to agree you will not get more seat time at any other event
that is around.. I ran 13-14 stop boxes and 14 autocrosses... any other
place you are lucky to get 5 runs

I find it a place to help dial the car in along with trying to get the
driver somewhat better.... time in the car is how you get there
Trying to beat Popp, Maier or Houbaugh is something that is hard
to do as that they have done it since they were able to drive
and have years of seat time and talent- something we all look for:)

Being able to drive the car hard and have fun is what it is all about
I feel lucky just to run my cars as often as I do and intend to keep
at it as long as I can

thanks to Jimi,Cam,Optima and all the sponsers for giving us the chance
and to the vendors that come up with all the great things that make
our cars run better

Bob

[GrabberGT]

Bring on the Unlimited class!! The more I look at the Dusold Camaro the more I know that these builds need a place to run. Tube chassis, full cage, twin turbo LS7...who wouldn't want to see that run?

As long as they can complete the road portion and show that they're legal in their home state they should be able to run. Look at the draw that the ProMod "streetcars" bring at Drag Week.....trickle down engineering :lol:

I like it and do away with exhibition as well. Let those drivers play in Unlimited. But the real question is... where do you draw the line between what is an unlimited and isnt? Maybe call it the "Ultimate" class and it be the only class to run for the Ultimate Streetcar title. Many of these cars we consider "race cars" will move there on their own just to have a shot at the title.

[DBasher]

I like it and do away with exhibition as well. Let those drivers play in Unlimited. But the real question is... where do you draw the line between what is an unlimited and isnt? Maybe call it the "Ultimate" class and it be the only class to run for the Ultimate Streetcar title. Many of these cars we consider "race cars" will move there on their own just to have a shot at the title.

Minimum weight 3000#
Licensed and registered
200TW
Stock WB and maybe original "style" panels
That's it, anything goes! Frickin CanAm street cars!

It's the direction people are going anyways, why not embrace it instead of saying they can't run.
That's it, I'm writing a letter.


Dear Jimi,

:D

[SSLance]

This post comes from a guy (in case some don't already know ;) ) with about 3 years experience in this part of the hobby, who drives what he thinks is a Vintage Muscle car, and has been very active in helping to create the CAM classes in the SCCA as well as participate in a few USCA qualifying events.

The SCCA and the USCA (my car is too new for Good Guys) have their work cut out for them coming up with ways to keep putting on quality events that create enough of a fun\dollar ratio to keep the registrations full. Their success so far shows they are up to the task. I really like that the SCCA and USCA are working together to create like kind classes for our types of cars to run in, I hope they also work together to work around each other's schedules to allow entrants to continue to attend events in both series easily.

Some of the most fun I've had as an entrant at these types of events were at events that I'm certain lost money and were considered unsuccessful, and some of least fun events I've participated in were probably considered successful by those that put it on. I'm not sure there is a good answer for this.

All I know is I am personally going to continue to pick and choose the events I attend based solely on the expected fun vs dollar cost ratio. This is why I declined the invitation that I earned to the 2015 OUSCI...I just couldn't see the fun\dollar ratio (for me personally) being anywhere near the point I have to have it to enjoy myself. Certainly there are many others out there that are able to put that ratio into their happy window. The rules, classes, point structure, ability to compete fairly and win all come secondary for this participant...they count...and are looked at when deciding where to go, but the fun factor will continue to be my priority. Distance to travel to an event is a major factor in this. The USCA seems to have forgotten the Midwest Region a little bit this year and I'm sure there are reasons for that...hopefully in future years they'll find ways to come back this way.


Regarding classes and rules, both the SCCA and USCA are tip toeing around a line that is very hard to discern (race car vs street car) and everyone seems to have their own opinion on where that line should be...when in fact that line is in a different spot for just about everyone of us. I can speak from experience that making the masses happy when dealing with that line while at the same time putting on events that are economically sustainable and fun for the entrants (and the spectators or possible future entrants) is a near impossible feat. Someone is bound to get butt hurt if they take it too seriously no matter where that line is.

[Chad-1stGen]

This thread had me thinking about the USCI and how the GTV cars stacked up against each other. So I parsed the results just for fun. As I've already said fun and seat time are more imporatant to me than all out competition. There are 32 (out of 84 total) pre 1990 cars listed on the USCI results page. Of those 17 managed to score points.

Excluding the road ralley and design & engineering here is how those 17 cars stack up against eachother. Note I didn't separate the GTL cars from the pre 1990 cars so this includes both.

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah189/chad-1stgen/2015%20USCI%20pre%201990%20results%20points_zpssid bivcq.jpg

[mfain]

Minimum weight 3000#
Licensed and registered
200TW
Stock WB and maybe original "style" panels
That's it, anything goes! Frickin CanAm street cars!

It's the direction people are going anyways, why not embrace it instead of saying they can't run.
That's it, I'm writing a letter.


Dear Jimi,

:D

Here we go again - another rule. What's with this 3000# minimum? :lol:

Pappy

[Panteracer]

Since someone said Can Am... lets do the West Coast version
of modern day Can Am... engine in the front... needs a roof
and other than that go..

like... Merc9.com

Bob

[GregWeld]

Here we go again - another rule. What's with this 3000# minimum? :lol:

Pappy

My stripped out Mustang weighs 2975 with me in it..... and it's as far from a "street car" as you could get. LOL My Lotus 2 11 - which is street legal in Europe -- 1470 #'s... OUT!

So I'm out!


The new one I'm toying with 2500 #'s with me in it.... Out again.


It's okay -- gives me good excuses to not have to show my lousy driving skills.

[Blake Foster]

My stripped out Mustang weighs 2975 with me in it..... and it's as far from a "street car" as you could get. LOL My Lotus 2 11 - which is street legal in Europe -- 1470 #'s... OUT!

So I'm out!


The new one I'm toying with 2500 #'s with me in it.... Out again.


It's okay -- gives me good excuses to not have to show my lousy driving skills.

3 in and out burgers and some rivals and your back in buddy!!

[GregWeld]

3 in and out burgers and some rivals and your back in buddy!!






Might have to add a couple chocolate shakes and some Animal fries..... oh - and wipers and headlights and signals.... Oh! And...... would it be okay if I ran a Euro plate??? LOL Do you think I could get away with rebadging this as an EVO??

Kidding of course --- we can have a bit of laughter can't we??







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/Lotus/4TR_5619.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/Lotus/4TR_5619.jpg.html)

[rustomatic]

Dan, I think we're carrying the same virus. Maybe we caught it from too many of Greg's barbecue weenies . . .

The "unlimited" thing used to be why race cars existed. Perhaps USCA is just helping to build the perfect kind of throwback forum (for building and running the craziest contraption in a kind of automotive decathlon sense). Maybe they're simply the beta version . . .

Bring on the Unlimited class!! The more I look at the Dusold Camaro the more I know that these builds need a place to run. Tube chassis, full cage, twin turbo LS7...who wouldn't want to see that run?

As long as they can complete the road portion and show that they're legal in their home state they should be able to run. Look at the draw that the ProMod "streetcars" bring at Drag Week.....trickle down engineering :lol:

[DBasher]

The "unlimited" thing used to be why race cars existed. Perhaps USCA is just helping to build the perfect kind of throwback forum (for building and running the craziest contraption in a kind of automotive decathlon sense). Maybe they're simply the beta version . . .

I hope so! I've read that the 2016 rules will be out by the end of the year, we'll see what they come up with. I'd love to see them embrace cars like Dusolds Camaro and Pappys "thing" (that he isn't sharing any pictures of). Shoot, just on this site you could find a dozen "outlaw" style streetcars...I'd imagine some of the import and newer American muscle guys would love to see an Ultimate/Unlimited class as well.

[ironworks]

This whole thread comes up every year, It just gets long each year. We attended last year with the Chevelle, It was an extremely well ran event. I still don't understand even why we got an invite. Since we are really rookies to the event, we ran with the all show class. We can't pass and you just go parade around behind the slow car that unknowingly leads the parade. We paid them nothing and they never used any footage from us on TV. They just gave away space to let attempt to make a fool of ourselves with a 1970 Chevelle magazine cover car. They could have let guys who were way more serious participate for a bigger benefit for them selves. But they let us attend. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, we had a ball.

By the way we took my 1 year old daughter on the road rally with my wife in the back seat. If you can do that you truly have a street car.

Obviously like anything that is supposed to be fun, everyone gets really serious and wants a leg up on the competition. So as more people realize they would rather win then look cool in a stock suspension 1 gen Camaro. I have said this for years, Pro-touring is going to create to kinds of people, those who build race cars for the street and guys who think their car is capable of racing. People are now realizing that a stock C6 Vette is just as fast as well modded 1st gen Camaro. And cheaper. You don't build winning race cars with bolt on parts for very long, as some one will out think you with their welder pretty soon. If they don't make what is needed for the advantage some will make it.

Optima is trying to have an event to give these guys of different skill levels a place to kinda race. Its really not a race when there are other style and taste elements involved. But its alot of fun, but you can't have cars and track with guys you like to compete for long before some one rolls out some money to have an advantage if its allowed. USCA's job is to promote events people will attend and keep people safe and try to make a profit so they can support their own families. Rules are meant to level the playing field and try to keep people as safe as they can and their insurance requires.

Like a read in Jackass 2.0 yesterday, Stielow did not want build a muscle car on the level that it would now take to compete. I get that, the testing time and design time would kill any social life that guy might want as it will raise the bar so high. That is why you see guys running basically the same old car as that is probably now getting really well sorted after all these years.

Everyone would be much better suited to spend their money on training first. Go to every driving school you can and just drive what ever you have until it aint gonna go any faster ever. This aint Nascar, or any type of real professional racing. Heck just look at the grass roots drag racing these days. Those so called "STREET CARS" are going 3.87 in the 1/8 mile on a drag radials. But those guys will build and do what ever is needed.

[hifi875]

100% correct^^^^^. Im going to ron fellows driving school in pahrump in january. My father in law bought a new z06 w/z07pkg so he got a real sweet deal on the school. Im tagging along to keep him company and im gonna do the school in a regular c7. I know more than anyone that i need to learn how to drive. I did a track x event here at the national corvette museum motorsports park and knew immediately I was out of my league. It was very fun and scary at the same time. I just want to get better with what i got and not build a race car that you can drive on the street.

[DBasher]

I think most know that this isn't any kind of real race, more of an event to get together and run your car at whatever level you may be at. Some people go to GoodGuys, set up a chair and look at people looking at their car....uh, ok. For the folks that like to run their car in different events, this is the one to attend. (I'm talking more about the regional events then the finals in Vegas) I've seen all levels up folks running all sorts of cars. Is it for everyone? Obviously not.

It's a track day with more auto-X and speed stop then you'd get any place else. Throw in the vendors, expert drivers, an ass load of like minded people and you've got a great weekend. All that's needed is the Ultimate/Unlimited class:woot:



p.s. 1/8 mile is only half of a drag race

[efs69]

This thread had me thinking about the USCI and how the GTV cars stacked up against each other. So I parsed the results just for fun. As I've already said fun and seat time are more imporatant to me than all out competition. There are 32 (out of 84 total) pre 1990 cars listed on the USCI results page. Of those 17 managed to score points.

Excluding the road ralley and design & engineering here is how those 17 cars stack up against eachother. Note I didn't separate the GTL cars from the pre 1990 cars so this includes both.

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah189/chad-1stgen/2015%20USCI%20pre%201990%20results%20points_zpssid bivcq.jpg

Chad, I actually worked on the same chart just to see where I could have possibly stacked up if it was scored as a GTV class. Unfortunately I did not score any points at the OUSCI. I gave my car hell and feel I drove it hard and stretched some of my own limits did better than some of the newer and nicer vehicle. But more importantly, in my own self evaluation I did better than I thought I would given the field and with a few more runs I would have done even better.

I compete in the USCA events because it is well organized, provides lots of seat time (if the event is not too crowded) has instructors to take advantage of and has some great like minded people to hang around with, learn from and have some friendly competition with. Vendor support is usually present and welcomed. It also lets me drive my car in a venue with other like cars to give me a bench mark of my cars abilities as well as my own. With the information I gathered over the course of competing in these events over the last year, I made some changes to the car and gathered much needed driving and set up experience. Granted, I am never going to rise to the driving level of Danny, Brian, Mary or Jake but if I can get close I am mostly satisfied and know I am going in the right direction.

Being lucky enough to have been invited to this years OUSCI I felt humbled by the field of drivers, the level and variety of cars, the SEMA experience, vendor support, and the event itself. Logistically it was difficult to arrange for time off, last minute hotel, costs and vehicle prep but it may be a once in a lifetime experience. A bucket list item and something I am very grateful and fortunate to have been a part of but it took a lot of work.

I knew before I started this build that trying to make a near 50 year old car out handle a newer prepared all wheel drive car, C5/6/7 or Porsche or other exotic was never going to happen. I chose to build my car because it provided a challenge and I love old iron. It would be easier and cheaper to have started with something newer and better like a C5/6 but then I wouldn't' be part of this group or even in this discussion. I just wanted to go out there and have fun and fun was had!

That being said the OUSCI had a different feel to it that a normal event. There was an East Coast/West Coast type feel to it and did not have the sense of community like I have seen in the past. Maybe it was just me or the fact that we were spread out across a large area I don't know. I normally keep to myself but I did reach out to several others that I only knew through facebook posts. I think I managed to get more noticed when I went out and hammered on the car and had some great conversations with some other drivers. Not sure if the car got any coverage as the camera crews seemed focused on all the usual suspects.

Jimi and his staff as well as the Optima staff do tons to get these events together and definitely hear and read what we are saying about the series. If the series is to survive it has to draw the participants regardless of class. If you like vintage and can live with never being the Ultimate Car then run it. if you really have to win and have the talent to win jump into another class.

There is always room for improvement, for instance as a participant i have a front row seat to the action, not so great for a spectator, family member or fan. You would have needed a good camera to get a good shot and you didn't get to feel the thunder of an engine at full tilt coming through the straights. There was a really good crowd at the event and hopefully they will continue to come in the future. As for the classes, I love GTV but I also would like to see some recognition in that area. The Ultimate winner should remain that winner regardless of class but maybe something can be done to level the field. The D&E really made a difference in where I placed as well as others. I have to figure out where I get dinged and make some changes.

All that said, I am a home builder. My car is cobbled from cast off used parts, Ebay, Craigs, sites like this on or wherever I can find them. I have busted knuckles, bled, sweat, countless hours of time invested as well as money. I feel I have built a good car. It's opened up so many new doors for me. It's even surprised a few people. Can it be better? Of course, and I will continue to work on it as well as myself and participate in this series as long as it remains reasonably affordable and fun. I look forward to next year and maybe another invite. In the meantime there is more work to do.

For those that haven't done one of these at least try it. Get your cars together, make them as safe as possible and worry about where you may stack up later and run within your ability. This is the only series that i know of that lets you run on iconic tracks and really push your cars and yourselves. Build them, drive them, fix them, repeat!

[mfain]

I hope so! I've read that the 2016 rules will be out by the end of the year, we'll see what they come up with. I'd love to see them embrace cars like Dusolds Camaro and Pappys "thing" (that he isn't sharing any pictures of). Shoot, just on this site you could find a dozen "outlaw" style streetcars...I'd imagine some of the import and newer American muscle guys would love to see an Ultimate/Unlimited class as well.

The "thing" ....old photo.... I'll start a thread soon since I am a lot further down the road with the project than this photo indicates.

Pappy

56173

[So Cal Camaro]

I think most know that this isn't any kind of real race, more of an event to get together and run your car at whatever level you may be at. Some people go to GoodGuys, set up a chair and look at people looking at their car....uh, ok. For the folks that like to run their car in different events, this is the one to attend. (I'm talking more about the regional events then the finals in Vegas) I've seen all levels up folks running all sorts of cars. Is it for everyone? Obviously not.

It's a track day with more auto-X and speed stop then you'd get any place else. Throw in the vendors, expert drivers, an ass load of like minded people and you've got a great weekend. All that's needed is the Ultimate/Unlimited class:woot:



p.s. 1/8 mile is only half of a drag race

I don't see them doing an Unlimited class, as they currently don't even allow kit cars like Factory Five stuff...I could be wrong...will see soon enough

[DBasher]

I don't see them doing an Unlimited class, as they currently don't even allow kit cars like Factory Five stuff...I could be wrong...will see soon enough

Nope, you're correct. I sent a message to them asking to consider the class, the response I recieved, "We are the Ultimate Street Car Associstion. If it's a true street car, it should fit comfortably in the classes we currently have." Sounds good to me! Game on!


Pappy, the backside looks great! For some reason I thought you were building an early T-Bird...my bad. Looking forward to seeing what you've got brewin. :cheers:

[rickpaw]

Charlie, I saw a post on the Facebook with the dates and tracks for next year.
The highlights for the western events...
T-Hill, February 27-28
Vegas, April 23-24
COTA, August 6-7
Auto Club Speedway October 8-9



COTA will be a great track to run the cars on, if we get to run the full road course. The down side is it will be in August, and it will be HOT.



I compete in the USCA events because it is well organized, provides lots of seat time (if the event is not too crowded) has instructors to take advantage of and has some great like minded people to hang around with, learn from and have some friendly competition with. Vendor support is usually present and welcomed. It also lets me drive my car in a venue with other like cars to give me a bench mark of my cars abilities as well as my own. With the information I gathered over the course of competing in these events over the last year, I made some changes to the car and gathered much needed driving and set up experience. Granted, I am never going to rise to the driving level of Danny, Brian, Mary or Jake but if I can get close I am mostly satisfied and know I am going in the right direction.

Being lucky enough to have been invited to this years OUSCI I felt humbled by the field of drivers, the level and variety of cars, the SEMA experience, vendor support, and the event itself. Logistically it was difficult to arrange for time off, last minute hotel, costs and vehicle prep but it may be a once in a lifetime experience. A bucket list item and something I am very grateful and fortunate to have been a part of but it took a lot of work.

I knew before I started this build that trying to make a near 50 year old car out handle a newer prepared all wheel drive car, C5/6/7 or Porsche or other exotic was never going to happen. I chose to build my car because it provided a challenge and I love old iron. It would be easier and cheaper to have started with something newer and better like a C5/6 but then I wouldn't' be part of this group or even in this discussion. I just wanted to go out there and have fun and fun was had!

That being said the OUSCI had a different feel to it that a normal event. There was an East Coast/West Coast type feel to it and did not have the sense of community like I have seen in the past. Maybe it was just me or the fact that we were spread out across a large area I don't know. I normally keep to myself but I did reach out to several others that I only knew through facebook posts. I think I managed to get more noticed when I went out and hammered on the car and had some great conversations with some other drivers. Not sure if the car got any coverage as the camera crews seemed focused on all the usual suspects.

Jimi and his staff as well as the Optima staff do tons to get these events together and definitely hear and read what we are saying about the series. If the series is to survive it has to draw the participants regardless of class. If you like vintage and can live with never being the Ultimate Car then run it. if you really have to win and have the talent to win jump into another class.

There is always room for improvement, for instance as a participant i have a front row seat to the action, not so great for a spectator, family member or fan. You would have needed a good camera to get a good shot and you didn't get to feel the thunder of an engine at full tilt coming through the straights. There was a really good crowd at the event and hopefully they will continue to come in the future. As for the classes, I love GTV but I also would like to see some recognition in that area. The Ultimate winner should remain that winner regardless of class but maybe something can be done to level the field. The D&E really made a difference in where I placed as well as others. I have to figure out where I get dinged and make some changes.

All that said, I am a home builder. My car is cobbled from cast off used parts, Ebay, Craigs, sites like this on or wherever I can find them. I have busted knuckles, bled, sweat, countless hours of time invested as well as money. I feel I have built a good car. It's opened up so many new doors for me. It's even surprised a few people. Can it be better? Of course, and I will continue to work on it as well as myself and participate in this series as long as it remains reasonably affordable and fun. I look forward to next year and maybe another invite. In the meantime there is more work to do.

For those that haven't done one of these at least try it. Get your cars together, make them as safe as possible and worry about where you may stack up later and run within your ability. This is the only series that i know of that lets you run on iconic tracks and really push your cars and yourselves. Build them, drive them, fix them, repeat!

^^^ My thoughts exactly. I'm a home builder. I built my car out of my home garage. I started with muscle cars because I like the looks/styling. Then got sick of going to car shows and dealing with snobs who pointed out all the stuff that are not "correct" for the car. I attended USCA event earlier this year in Texas as a first timer. I have not ran a track day or auto cross, or speed stop before this event, but I had a ton of fun. Plus as a bonus, my times continued to improve as the day progressed. At the end of the day, I had FUN and that mattered to me.

Tu

[carbuff]

COTA will be a great track to run the cars on, if we get to run the full road course. The down side is it will be in August, and it will be HOT.

Agreed on the HOT!

One comment I have for anyone listening... A couple of years ago I attended the Australian V8 Supercars race at COTA. It was the first, and only so far, event that I have attended where they used a crossover portion of the track which cuts off the rear dogleg. I really liked that track setup, and I think it would be worth considering for this event. It takes the highest speed portion of the track out of the equation (coming back down from turn 11 to turn 12).

It would allow more actual laps and take some of the risk out of the event. I realize that may not be the most popular suggestion, but I like the possibility of more laps with less risk personally!

Looking forward to making a couple of events next year, one in my back yard!!!

Found a good map showing the option I am referring to... See the cutover at turn 5...

http://racingready.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/CoTA-short-track-configuration-2.3-miles-for-V8-Supercars.jpg

[gerno]

Completely agree with Bryan on using the short course if possible. That straight in the back is LONG. Front is enough straight for me and corners are more fun.

[GrabberGT]

COTA is most definitely going to be hot. I cant imagine anyone being in the mood for BBQ once we're done slow roasting at the track all day.

I was just remembering today how hard it was to keep the car cool at TMS in March. Im going to have to do something about my cooling system before August.

[glassman]

Thats why street cars have a/c!!! lol, but not really laughing, really just enjoying my a/c in my "street car".....oops, forgot we need the windows down, yep, hot it is, cant stick our heads out the window either, dam!

[Panteracer]

Glassman... my buddy with a Yates headed 408 stack injected
Cleveland in his Pantera says Ac is for Babies... he said he
and the wife just spray each other with water bottles going
100mph plus on our way to the yearly Vegas Pantera get together:)
No AC in my cars..dead weight... just like the passenger

Bob

[Chad-1stGen]

When I was at Fontana watching guys in the pits with their windows up and A/C on staged and waiting to on track I will admit that I was pretty jealous.

Sadly, I have A/C but hadn't gotten around to getting it recharge after the motor swap. So I'm paying the weight penalty and getting no benefit!

[GregWeld]

Race cars run Cool Shirts.....









http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/photo2.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/65%20Mustang%20Track%20car/photo2.jpg.html)

[carbuff]

Race cars run Cool Shirts.....


But... But... This is a street car event!

:)

[Panteracer]

Chad I autocrossed many a day in 105 heat
changing tires on and off the car before and after
I used to run against a Doctor who had AC in his turbo
car... I would go over and he would barely roll the window
down.. ac blasting... classical music going... I told him
that it was cheating.. he just laughed and rolled the window
back up.. had some fun times running against him

Now if it gets too damned hot I just roll into my f250
and crank up the AC for a few minutes:)

Bob

[Chad-1stGen]

Bob, that is one good reason to use a tow vehicle instead of driving to all my events :)

[71RS/SS396]

Agreed on the HOT!

One comment I have for anyone listening... A couple of years ago I attended the Australian V8 Supercars race at COTA. It was the first, and only so far, event that I have attended where they used a crossover portion of the track which cuts off the rear dogleg. I really liked that track setup, and I think it would be worth considering for this event. It takes the highest speed portion of the track out of the equation (coming back down from turn 11 to turn 12).

It would allow more actual laps and take some of the risk out of the event. I realize that may not be the most popular suggestion, but I like the possibility of more laps with less risk personally!

Looking forward to making a couple of events next year, one in my back yard!!!

Found a good map showing the option I am referring to... See the cutover at turn 5...

http://racingready.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/CoTA-short-track-configuration-2.3-miles-for-V8-Supercars.jpg

Come on! You haven't lived until you've been 160+ with the aerodynamics of a brick! :poke: :) :) :mock:

[71RS/SS396]

The sponsors like Detroit Speed offer suspension parts for 5th gens, in addition to Vintage cars, K&N/Spectre offer parts for all year cars, Falken doesn't care if the car is new or old using their tires. Same for Lingenfelter, Holley & Wilwood brakes, they all sell parts for all year cars. The sponsors have adapted to the new world, so while you all like to complain about c5 Corvettes, Evo's or 5th gen Camaro's running in the event, if we didn't run, there would likely be no events as the Vintage guys are not coming out in force to the USCA qualifier events.

There were only 128 GTV cars registered all year at the 9 USCA events, and about 30 of those participated in more than one event to try and qualify for the OUSCI event. If the vintage cars want to be represented in greater numbers all they have to do is sign up and accumulate enough points to make the big show, like the EVO guys from RS Motors did.

They limit the number of entries, so fill the field at each event with as many vintage cars as you all can. USCA and Optima put on great events that provide all of us with a playground to drive the piss out of our cars and get some great seat time, which I do with a lot of friends at events. Do I ever expect to win the event? No, Do I have any less fun seeing where I stack up? No and I finished 57th overall...I am happily looking forward to the 2016 season!

Dannie, imho the reason you're not seeing the vintage cars out in force is, most know they have no chance of being competitive driving old iron. It's sad to see the genre of cars that built this series dwindling in participation. I think it will continue in this direction until this is just another racing series with late model cars competing. I understand why Optima is doing it this way, they want to sell batteries to the largest audience they can and there's a larger pool of late model cars than vintage cars.

[Jay Hilliard]

There should be 2 classes, Vintage and Late model. As Tim mentioned, 1992 and back are basically aero bricks compared to 1996-2015 cars.

Aero drag and downforce starts to play a big part of handling at 100 mph and up.

To put in perspective, back in 1969-1970, it took 620HP in a Dodge Daytona (which was very aerodynamic for 1970) to go 200mph and now it only takes ~450hp to go 200mph in a latest NASCAR speedway cup car.

[rickpaw]

There should be 2 classes, Vintage and Late model. As Tim mentioned, 1992 and back are basically aero bricks compared to 1996-2015 cars.

Aero drag and downforce starts to play a big part of handling at 100 mph and up.

To put in perspective, back in 1969-1970, it took 620HP in a Dodge Daytona (which was very aerodynamic for 1970) to go 200mph and now it only takes ~450hp to go 200mph in a latest NASCAR speedway cup car.

Dont know what's coming for 2016, but they did have GTV (vintage) class, for vehicles 1989 model year or older. So that takes out the old cars vs. modern car argument. It just seem that not many older cars participated this year, and I'm not sure why.

Tu

[carbuff]

Come on! You haven't lived until you've been 160+ with the aerodynamics of a brick! :poke: :) :) :mock:

I hear ya... If someone like Dusold decides to turn up the boost on his Camaro, coming out of turn 11, with 3/4 of a mile and a running start, I bet he can hit that or more!

:eek: :omg: :morepower :brix:

[GregWeld]

Dannie, imho the reason you're not seeing the vintage cars out in force is, most know they have no chance of being competitive driving old iron. It's sad to see the genre of cars that built this series dwindling in participation. I think it will continue in this direction until this is just another racing series with late model cars competing. I understand why Optima is doing it this way, they want to sell batteries to the largest audience they can and there's a larger pool of late model cars than vintage cars.



This seems to be a "chicken or the egg first" classic..... My thought is that HAD Classic American Muscle turned out in sufficient numbers at the local events... you might not be seeing the number of late models and imports. It takes quite a few entrants to make these events worthwhile. If you need 70 cars to turn out and only 30 show up -- that's a huge loss.... and that's EXACTLY what we saw the first year or so. Low turnouts of those the series initially catered to. Then what's left?? Open it up and promote it to more entrants...

I don't know that people understand what it takes to put on one of these events. The club I belong to says it cost $60,000 (sixty thousand dollars) to rent Sonoma Raceway and put on a weekend event! That's 120 folks paying $500 for two days just to break even...

[GregWeld]

But... But... This is a street car event!

:)




I know.... but it's just hard for me to keep my mouth shut.... LOL

[71RS/SS396]

This seems to be a "chicken or the egg first" classic..... My thought is that HAD Classic American Muscle turned out in sufficient numbers at the local events... you might not be seeing the number of late models and imports. It takes quite a few entrants to make these events worthwhile. If you need 70 cars to turn out and only 30 show up -- that's a huge loss.... and that's EXACTLY what we saw the first year or so. Low turnouts of those the series initially catered to. Then what's left?? Open it up and promote it to more entrants...

I don't know that people understand what it takes to put on one of these events. The club I belong to says it cost $60,000 (sixty thousand dollars) to rent Sonoma Raceway and put on a weekend event! That's 120 folks paying $500 for two days just to break even...

Greg, I'm not real sure where you think they catered to vintage cars last year, this basic format/rule set has used since this series started. I know what it costs to do these events trust me. It's their sandbox and they should do what they want since they're footing the bill. In it's current configuration the lightweight AWD cars are going to eventually dominate this event. I'm not sure how you fix it or if they should, but I don't ever see a vintage car being competitive at the invitational ever again.

[71RS/SS396]

Dont know what's coming for 2016, but they did have GTV (vintage) class, for vehicles 1989 model year or older. So that takes out the old cars vs. modern car argument. It just seem that not many older cars participated this year, and I'm not sure why.

Tu

They only use the class format at regional qualifiers, they don't use that at the invitational in Vegas.

[71RS/SS396]

There should be 2 classes, Vintage and Late model. As Tim mentioned, 1992 and back are basically aero bricks compared to 1996-2015 cars.

Aero drag and downforce starts to play a big part of handling at 100 mph and up.

To put in perspective, back in 1969-1970, it took 620HP in a Dodge Daytona (which was very aerodynamic for 1970) to go 200mph and now it only takes ~450hp to go 200mph in a latest NASCAR speedway cup car.

Jay, the aero only matters on the road course it's not really a factor on the auto-x or speed stop.

[GrabberGT]

Dannie, imho the reason you're not seeing the vintage cars out in force is, most know they have no chance of being competitive driving old iron. It's sad to see the genre of cars that built this series dwindling in participation. I think it will continue in this direction until this is just another racing series with late model cars competing. I understand why Optima is doing it this way, they want to sell batteries to the largest audience they can and there's a larger pool of late model cars than vintage cars.

I have to disagree here. I think its more of a numbers game. There just arent as many of us out there as we'd like to think. As mentioned earlier in this thread about Goodguys autocross participation, (quoted below) just add the cost of attending these events, the stigma of "my car isnt good enough", purchase a helmet, fire extinguisher and other gear, the increased wear and tear on the vehicle, the fear of damage... and you see how the pool of GTV cars shrinks even further.

Before you go off in the direction of what a great value these events are, consider this... Most of the GG autocross participants are paying nothing to autocross. Outside of the Pros/Sponsor cars, most of them are at GG anyway and are doing the autocross just for the heck of it. If they only get to make 4-5 runs a day, that great! They're not seriously racing anyway and it costs them nothing in addition to do it.

Looking at it this way, I understand the numbers. Its going to take some time to build the Pro-touring base to the levels we are expecting at these events. Until then, lets keep the GTV class alive by ensuring the participants' efforts are acknowledged. It takes more to bring a GTV car to the event than any other class. The other classes all start off with performance. Just upgrade tires (or dont) and you're ready. A GTV car is a re-engineered and built car. (on a side note, shouldnt the D&E scores reflect this more? Really... we swap out our suspensions, motors with EFI, cooling and fuel systems, interior functionality and creature comforts, body mods... and we're scored within a single point of a late model with upgraded tires and lowering springs???)

Regarding the number of GTV guys... The population of protouring cars in general is already a fairly small segment of the overall car hobby. Look at Goodguys events. These events are targeted towards older/vintage cars and draws thousands and thousands of cars to each show and when you walk around how many of them are trully build with a focus on protouring/handling beyond some big wheels and bling?. I'd say well under 10%. Of that group less than 100 actually participate in the autocross portion.

[GregWeld]

Greg, I'm not real sure where you think they catered to vintage cars last year, this basic format/rule set has used since this series started. I know what it costs to do these events trust me. It's their sandbox and they should do what they want since they're footing the bill. In it's current configuration the lightweight AWD cars are going to eventually dominate this event. I'm not sure how you fix it or if they should, but I don't ever see a vintage car being competitive at the invitational ever again.



I get what you're saying Tim --- I was really referring to the series beginnings -- when car turnout was actually pretty poor.... which opens the door to finding attendees anywhere you can. If the series took off and was full to the point of having waiting lists of "PT cars".... then we probably might not (might is key here) be seeing all the newer stuff.

[71RS/SS396]

I have to disagree here. I think its more of a numbers game. There just arent as many of us out there as we'd like to think. As mentioned earlier in this thread about Goodguys autocross participation, (quoted below) just add the cost of attending these events, the stigma of "my car isnt good enough", purchase a helmet, fire extinguisher and other gear, the increased wear and tear on the vehicle, the fear of damage... and you see how the pool of GTV cars shrinks even further.

Before you go off in the direction of what a great value these events are, consider this... Most of the GG autocross participants are paying nothing to autocross. Outside of the Pros/Sponsor cars, most of them are at GG anyway and are doing the autocross just for the heck of it. If they only get to make 4-5 runs a day, that great! They're not seriously racing anyway and it costs them nothing in addition to do it.

Looking at it this way, I understand the numbers. Its going to take some time to build the Pro-touring base to the levels we are expecting at these events. Until then, lets keep the GTV class alive by ensuring the participants' efforts are acknowledged. It takes more to bring a GTV car to the event than any other class. The other classes all start off with performance. Just upgrade tires (or dont) and you're ready. A GTV car is a re-engineered and built car. (on a side note, shouldnt the D&E scores reflect this more? Really... we swap out our suspensions, motors with EFI, cooling and fuel systems, interior functionality and creature comforts, body mods... and we're scored within a single point of a late model with upgraded tires and lowering springs???)
I've been attending events all over the country regularly for 6 years, not just usca events. Until a few years ago the participants were largely vintage cars. Since capable drivers started showing up in late model cars and winning the tides have changed in that regard, Karl Dunn, Randy Johnson, Brian Hobaugh, and Chris Jacobs all switched to C5 vettes, why, because they can be more competitive in them. As far as the DE part of the event I think it's stupid and has nothing to do with a racing series, most of the top tier cars have gotten so far away from a real street car that it's a joke to pretend that they are.

[71RS/SS396]

I get what you're saying Tim --- I was really referring to the series beginnings -- when car turnout was actually pretty poor.... which opens the door to finding attendees anywhere you can. If the series took off and was full to the point of having waiting lists of "PT cars".... then we probably might not (might is key here) be seeing all the newer stuff.

Mark my words... the lightweight awd's are going to own this series. I've already moved on from attending these as several of the other "regular attendees" have as well. It just doesn't make economic sense to me to attend to be mid pack since I have double the cost with Deb participating as well. I can run for the fun of it and spend $4700 for my membership for the entire season at VIR, have 20 track days (with a top shelf catered lunch) and get a minimum of 2.5 hours (usually more) of actual seat time and have maybe 10 cars to run with on a 3.25 mile track that is one of the best in the country. That works out to less than $250 a day for both cars. I only have to travel 1 hour, can sleep in my own bed, and eat at home, pretty easy decision for me. I'll save my out of town excursions to hang out with my friends for Goodguys where the savings in entry fees will pay for most of my food and lodging for the trip.

[rustomatic]

I'm glad to see somebody approaching this topic with a rational cost analysis relative to the cost of regular club-type track days. For autocross time (plus speed-stop, if you don't mind burning up your equipment in the stop box), USCA offers good stuff, so long as you're not paying for the full weekend. As for the track experience, so long as you live within reasonable distance of a track or two, the price (of participating in a USCA event) is just not all that great. Sometimes, people's competitive nature just creates a grotesquely mediocre fight to be king of the dipsticks (there's another, better 16 Candles term, but it would be dirty); when you come to this conclusion, and you're not one of those who's determined to put a dog in the cock fight, you find a more realistic venue for having fun speeding (like a regular track day, which usually offers more track time than most people/cars can take) . . .

Mark my words... the lightweight awd's are going to own this series. I've already moved on from attending these as several of the other "regular attendees" have as well. It just doesn't make economic sense to me to attend to be mid pack since I have double the cost with Deb participating as well. I can run for the fun of it and spend $4700 for my membership for the entire season at VIR, have 20 track days (with a top shelf catered lunch) and get a minimum of 2.5 hours (usually more) of actual seat time and have maybe 10 cars to run with on a 3.25 mile track that is one of the best in the country. That works out to less than $250 a day for both cars. I only have to travel 1 hour, can sleep in my own bed, and eat at home, pretty easy decision for me. I'll save my out of town excursions to hang out with my friends for Goodguys where the savings in entry fees will pay for most of my food and lodging for the trip.

[gerno]

I'm glad to see somebody approaching this topic with a rational cost analysis relative to the cost of regular club-type track days. For autocross time (plus speed-stop, if you don't mind burning up your equipment in the stop box), USCA offers good stuff, so long as you're not paying for the full weekend. As for the track experience, so long as you live within reasonable distance of a track or two, the price (of participating in a USCA event) is just not all that great. Sometimes, people's competitive nature just creates a grotesquely mediocre fight to be king of the dipsticks (there's another, better 16 Candles term, but it would be dirty); when you come to this conclusion, and you're not one of those who's determined to put a dog in the cock fight, you find a more realistic venue for having fun speeding (like a regular track day, which usually offers more track time than most people/cars can take) . . .


Agreed with these points as well. I prefer running track days, it give me more seat time in an event I want to participate. Good Guys is frustrating because the cater to the Pros and you sit around a lot. Local AX is a lot of work all day for 5-6 runs which makes GG better. It's up to each person.

This last weekend I drove in my first Lemons race. You want to talk about getting some track time with competition, it's a pretty good way to do it. I ran the shortest driving stint due to blowing a clutch and having to swap it out but still got 1hour 45min of non stop seat time. Others on my team ran for 2.5-3 hours. Not to mention this was while going head to head with other drivers which was awesome. It was a blast and definitely something I'll do again.

I'm also seriously considering NASA CMC or AI. For the cost to make my 72 competitive in other events I can buy a true NASA race car that's safer than what I have and have a blast. Not saying I won't still compete in other areas, I just don't think I'll be putting a huge effort into it going forward.

[GregWeld]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... I'm sorry.... but I've been watching these events - helping at these events - hauled cars to these events.... pimped people to go to these events... I love the people that put them on... and those that participate. It's ALL good car stuff. But then.... I go drive my track cars at a track event.

Yesterday I was prepping one of them for Laguna Seca - after I took the tire rubber off with Mothers 3R (racing rubber remover) - I then got the buffer out to clean up the paint a bit more behind the rear wheels. The whole time I'm cleaning and going over the car with the Adams detailer - I'm thinking to myself - man this car looks great for a race car. I'm pretty sure I paid less for it in total, than some of the cars owners that run these events paid for their paint jobs. So that "what it cost" argument just kills me. Really? Some people pay 4 to 6 grand just for their wheels... and we're discussing what it costs to run your car for a weekend on some of the most famous race tracks in the country?? LOL

Does anyone that runs ANY event ever think about the cost of blowing a motor? A tranny? A rear end? Chewing up a nice set of tires? Oh - how about an off track - or eating a wall?

If 4 or 500 bucks is killing you.... better find a new hobby.

[71RS/SS396]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... I'm sorry.... but I've been watching these events - helping at these events - hauled cars to these events.... pimped people to go to these events... I love the people that put them on... and those that participate. It's ALL good car stuff. But then.... I go drive my track cars at a track event.

Yesterday I was prepping one of them for Laguna Seca - after I took the tire rubber off with Mothers 3R (racing rubber remover) - I then got the buffer out to clean up the paint a bit more behind the rear wheels. The whole time I'm cleaning and going over the car with the Adams detailer - I'm thinking to myself - man this car looks great for a race car. I'm pretty sure I paid less for it in total, than some of the cars owners that run these events paid for their paint jobs. So that "what it cost" argument just kills me. Really? Some people pay 4 to 6 grand just for their wheels... and we're discussing what it costs to run your car for a weekend on some of the most famous race tracks in the country?? LOL

Does anyone that runs ANY event ever think about the cost of blowing a motor? A tranny? A rear end? Chewing up a nice set of tires? Oh - how about an off track - or eating a wall?

If 4 or 500 bucks is killing you.... better find a new hobby.

Greg, it's not $4-500 for me, it's $1,000 just for entry fees, then there's food, lodging, and fuel... not hard for it to turn into a $3,000-$5,000 weekend depending on the distance traveled and that's if nothing breaks on the cars. I'm seriously thinking about selling one of our cars and buying a used stock car for track days.

[ironworks]

Greg, it's not $4-500 for me, it's $1,000 just for entry fees, then there's food, lodging, and fuel... not hard for it to turn into a $3,000-$5,000 weekend depending on the distance traveled and that's if nothing breaks on the cars. I'm seriously thinking about selling one of our cars and buying a used stock car for track days.


When I started racing at the local dirt track after selling my 67 camaro. I bought the whole car for 6800 ready to race and capable of winning. The driver was not capable. But I had a great time in that deal. Just the repair work from the door to door damage was insane. Plus we raced every other saturday night. It cost like 15 dollars to race as long as you made the A main race the previous weekend. When I redid the engine, the builder told me a full on engine capable of running up front where ever was 35.... I said 35K. He said no...... 3500. I said I will take 2.

[GregWeld]

Greg, it's not $4-500 for me, it's $1,000 just for entry fees, then there's food, lodging, and fuel... not hard for it to turn into a $3,000-$5,000 weekend depending on the distance traveled and that's if nothing breaks on the cars. I'm seriously thinking about selling one of our cars and buying a used stock car for track days.



Hey -- Tell me about it..... I trailer the big rig a day and a half (at less than 5 MPG) to an event.... burn race gas at $10 a gallon and use 5+ gallons every 20 minute session... A set of Hoosiers will last me about a weekend... Brake pads... Add Sutton's weekend fee (I do that because it's fun and it's like going to driving school every weekend)...

When you add in my shop - back up cars - tractor trailer - I have over a million dollars in support of 3 or maybe 4 track weekends per year.

Ridiculous.... Just shoot me! I'm a moron.

[Blake Foster]

Hey -- Tell me about it..... I trailer the big rig a day and a half (at less than 5 MPG) to an event.... burn race gas at $10 a gallon and use 5+ gallons every 20 minute session... A set of Hoosiers will last me about a weekend... Brake pads... Add Sutton's weekend fee (I do that because it's fun and it's like going to driving school every weekend)...

When you add in my shop - back up cars - tractor trailer - I have over a million dollars in support of 3 or maybe 4 track weekends per year.

Ridiculous.... Just shoot me! I'm a moron.

:bigun2: :bigun2: :bigun2: :bang: :snapout:
you asked for it.

[GregWeld]

:bigun2: :bigun2: :bigun2: :bang: :snapout:
you asked for it.




I'm going to sell it all shortly..... buy a $1500 GoKart and drive it thru the neighborhood and post YouTube videos. Or maybe go Trash Can racing with Payton King and Ron Schwarz...

[clill]

Hey -- Tell me about it..... I trailer the big rig a day and a half (at less than 5 MPG) to an event.... burn race gas at $10 a gallon and use 5+ gallons every 20 minute session... A set of Hoosiers will last me about a weekend... Brake pads... Add Sutton's weekend fee (I do that because it's fun and it's like going to driving school every weekend)...

When you add in my shop - back up cars - tractor trailer - I have over a million dollars in support of 3 or maybe 4 track weekends per year.

Ridiculous.... Just shoot me! I'm a moron.

Mission accomplished......:G-Dub: :welcome3:

[Panteracer]

Greg,
Where in the world are you buying race gas at $10 a gallon
Cost me $19 a gallon for 110 or 112 leaded.. and yes I also
burn 5 gallons a session but love it

Bob

[ironworks]

Greg,
Where in the world are you buying race gas at $10 a gallon
Cost me $19 a gallon for 110 or 112 leaded.. and yes I also
burn 5 gallons a session but love it

Bob

Wow your getting hosed. I bought a 55 gallon drum for like 450 delivered.

I buy 5 gallon pales for 54 bucks.

[GregWeld]

Wow your getting hosed. I bought a 55 gallon drum for like 450 delivered.

I buy 5 gallon pales for 54 bucks.



Okay -- can you even do math??? 54 divided by 5 = $10.80 per gallon


Oh wait --- you were referring to Bob paying $18 or 19.... yeah -- that's at the Pantera only station. HAHAHAHAHA

[GregWeld]

Mission accomplished......:G-Dub: :welcome3:




Yep!


"Hey! You know what you need...... "

[Chad-1stGen]

I get what Tim and Gerno are saying when you compare pure cost to seat time, none of these events ever paper out. It has been that way since I attended the first inaugural Run To The Coast in SoCal.

Open track days are always far cheaper and offer more seat time. So there has to be something more a non podium finisher gets out of it. For me, its the chance to run with a much larger vintage turnout than open track days give. Run in the best organized series and yes be able to compare my own driving skills and car's capability to the best in our area of the hobby. I know I'm not going to win and thats ok. I just want to see how close I can get! For me that is fun, but I also don't attend events USCA across the country. I attend the ones in my back yard.

I too would like to run Lemons or Chump or some other race series. It would be much more competitive, safer and *cheaper* than what I do with my 68 Camaro. But it would have to be in addition to, not instead of, my camaro because I love running vintage iron on a race track.

I disagree with Gerno's comments about SCCA autocross though. Gerno, how in the world you think goodguys is easier or more fun than SCCA blows my mind. Goodguys, you are there for 9 hours and if you aren't a pro get either 4 or 5 runs in a single day. I attended an SCCA autocross yesterday. I was there for less than 5 hours (including time to set up, walk the course, work etc.), got 8 runs on a HUGE and challenging autocross course all for $55. I'll take that any day over the goodguys events.

[Panteracer]

Wish we could get 8 runs in a day.. 3 for SCCA and
5 for American Autocross...

Race gas.. we only have a few guys left around here that
I know of that sell it because of all the forms they need to
fill out for leaded gas.. most gave up.. guess that is why
the pricing is so high

Bob

[gerno]

I get what Tim and Gerno are saying when you compare pure cost to seat time, none of these events ever paper out. It has been that way since I attended the first inaugural Run To The Coast in SoCal.

Open track days are always far cheaper and offer more seat time. So there has to be something more a non podium finisher gets out of it. For me, its the chance to run with a much larger vintage turnout than open track days give. Run in the best organized series and yes be able to compare my own driving skills and car's capability to the best in our area of the hobby. I know I'm not going to win and thats ok. I just want to see how close I can get! For me that is fun, but I also don't attend events USCA across the country. I attend the ones in my back yard.

I too would like to run Lemons or Chump or some other race series. It would be much more competitive, safer and *cheaper* than what I do with my 68 Camaro. But it would have to be in addition to, not instead of, my camaro because I love running vintage iron on a race track.

I disagree with Gerno's comments about SCCA autocross though. Gerno, how in the world you think goodguys is easier or more fun than SCCA blows my mind. Goodguys, you are there for 9 hours and if you aren't a pro get either 4 or 5 runs in a single day. I attended an SCCA autocross yesterday. I was there for less than 5 hours (including time to set up, walk the course, work etc.), got 8 runs on a HUGE and challenging autocross course all for $55. I'll take that any day over the goodguys events.


I think it may have to do with the local group and perhaps the weather. Typically we only get 5 runs locally and lately the courses haven't been the best in my opinion. Last event 2 of the corners had light poles placed exactly where the car could spin in a corner so I wasn't willing to go all out there. Not that I had a choice because my fuel rail broke but still. It also gets hot as hell in Austin during the summer. Working the track shagging cones blows. I also have red hair and get fried by the sun. Not saying I don't enjoy running the car, I guess I'm just lazy and really hate picking up cones. Yes, guess I am a pansy... :snapout:

[carbuff]

I disagree with Gerno's comments about SCCA autocross though. Gerno, how in the world you think goodguys is easier or more fun than SCCA blows my mind. Goodguys, you are there for 9 hours and if you aren't a pro get either 4 or 5 runs in a single day. I attended an SCCA autocross yesterday. I was there for less than 5 hours (including time to set up, walk the course, work etc.), got 8 runs on a HUGE and challenging autocross course all for $55. I'll take that any day over the goodguys events.

Since Steve and I run in the same local events, I can back up what he is saying. We don't get local SCCA events, but our local group is very active at the regionals and nationals. Typically, we arrive by 8:00, are there until 4:00, and get 4-5 runs (I've never had more than 5). There are 3 run groups, with about 40-50 cars in each. We work one shift, have one off, and run the 3rd. I think every one I have attended had me running the first group (which sucks, as the track is generally dirty), and working the third, meaning I'm there all day. And it costs $35 - 45 depending on the track.

By comparison, I had 15 or 16 runs at the last GG event (Friday/Saturday, I didn't drive on Sunday when I could have gotten even more), and I missed one session while I was repairing the car. I don't have to work the course, I get to socialize with more like-minded people (ie: vintage cars), and I have the whole GG show to wander around if I want (time permitting). Oh, and I pay $45 for the 3 days.

It sounds like our local events are somewhat opposite experiences...

I don't enjoy going to our local auto-x events, but I need seat time if I want to improve. I really enjoy the GG events, but I've only ever attended the ones in Fort Worth. I wish we had more that we could get to easily, but no other one is less than a full day's drive that I am aware of.

Back to the subject of OUSCI. I've spent the last week putting serious thought into whether I could attend multiple events next year. COTA would be local, but I have a conflict that weekend that I may have to miss COTA for. I can't believe I could even think that, but it's true. NOLA is close enough that I would probably find a way to get there. The next 3 I have looked at are 18+ hour drives for me. That's 2 days of driving each way, 2 days there, meals, hotels, gas, entry fees. Oh, and I need a vehicle to tow with and a trailer. :) It would take a big commitment in time and cash to make those...

I'm not knocking the events at all, I'm just not fortunate enough to live in a place where I can get to many. I don't think the $500 is unreasonable for the event, given the multiple aspects which take place (road course, speed stop, auto-x). I believe we had 5 20-25m sessions on the road course which is more than I generally get at local events. I had 12 or 13 auto-x laps, which again is more than I typically get (and I didn't have to work the course!), and I had 10 or 11 speed stop laps. I think that's pretty decent.

[Che70velle]

I have yet to run my first autocross in my Chevelle, as it's almost built, and winter is coming fast. You guys here make a guy like me second guess the entire autocross weekend with all the boohooing going on here. I learned a long time ago that Motorsports at any level is costly, if you wish to compete. I spent enough money racing asphalt late models to pay my house off...twice. Greg's comment on the $4-500 is spot on.
Hopefully this thread doesn't de-rail someone's plans of hitting a local track weekend, and actually enjoying it. I know I'm sure looking forward to mine!

[Flash68]

This whole thread comes up every year, It just gets long each year.

Sure does. And there are new things to talk about each year too.


Hopefully this thread doesn't de-rail someone's plans of hitting a local track weekend, and actually enjoying it.

I think (and hope) just the opposite! People should explore all their local offerings and see what they like and where the "value" is for them, and not just financial value. The examples of Chad (Socal) and Steve and Bryan (Texas) illustrate that pretty well above.

It might be just what they thought, or it might surprise them.

Then there's still that pro touring thing where people just drive around on roads and stuff.... :idea:

[Depthrecordings]

I for one can not wait to experience as much seat time at as many events as possible. I have been building my car specifically for autocross after seeing the event at a goodguys show a few years back.

I know there will be ups and downs to each groups events, but I take that as par for the course. Maybe I'm too "green" to understand all negativity. I just want to drive my car fast :)

[GregWeld]

I for one can not wait to experience as much seat time at as many events as possible. I have been building my car specifically for autocross after seeing the event at a goodguys show a few years back.

I know there will be ups and downs to each groups events, but I take that as par for the course. Maybe I'm too "green" to understand all negativity. I just want to drive my car fast :)


I don't know why you'd find a great discussion to be "negative" -- this is how forums work - people come on and discuss stuff. I haven't read anything negative except for people explaining why they like one format over another. Usually people learn from these explanations and discussions. Even the promoters can come on and see what people have to say about their events and sometimes it leads to changes and improvements. That's not negative.

[Panteracer]

I have come from running karts, to dirt bikes to autocrossing and then
Open Tracking..... I do like the open tracking but because
of my Optima invite a few years back I got hooked on autocrossing
again...
I have said it once before you can run an autocross many times and
it is almost impossible to have a perfect run.. it reminds me of dirt
biking... make quick decisions and trying to get it right quickly

On a track you can go there time and time again and finally
figure things out... in autocross the course is gone after the
day you run it. I really like that challenge

I am also learning how to adjust the car somewhat
although mine still has a ways to go

If you want to run your car and have some fun then
autocrossing is a good start.. hell running the car anywhere
hard in a controlled environment is great
But really for beginners it is a great place to try your car out

Best event I have ever done is the Virgina City Hill Climb
5.1 miles 27 turns on a closed road running 125mph plus
with no guard rails or rules.. just hang on!!!

Bob

[SSLance]

This leads back to the bigger things get, the harder they are to make everyone happy.

We had 174 timed entries in our last KC Region SCCA event last month whereas we typically have 100-110. I was pretty certain it was going to be a disaster because we have to be cleaned up and off of our site at 5 pm sharp, no exclusions. The chair, co-chair and a few of the "leaders" of the Region did a fantastic job though and the whole event ran pretty smooth and we still got 4 runs each but we missed out on our typical parade lap.

Just growing a 1 day event from 100 to 175 entries was a huge undertaking that took planning and a lot of extra work, but the coffers at the end of the day were almost double full from where they typically are. This is how it works...

As an entrant, I prefer the light entry days were we get 5 or 6 runs a day but as a club, I see the benefits of higher numbers. It sounds like the SCCA Regions all have much different Solo events based on how the Regions are run and the number of entrants...it's interesting to me to here reports back from how other regions do things and what the results are.

[DBasher]

I used to get asked why I was building a car and sinking X amount of dollars into it, just to load it on a trailer, drive 13hrs and make 10 runs in a weeks time.....I still don't have a good answer......it's Bonneville man!
Some people feel the need to drive across the country to go to Hot August Nights or Sturgis or....whatever.
My friends and I have done four of these events, Pahrump, Laguna, Portland (lame) and Thunderhill. We share the fuel cost, kinda, lodging and the driver pays the entry. Every one of them has been a complete blast, not just the track time but the other folks involved and the time spent with friends.

We'll continue doing the events closeish to home and see what happens next year, I can guarantee we'll be having a blast no matter what cars/classes are running.

:cheers:

[chichirone]

Since Steve and I run in the same local events, I can back up what he is saying. We don't get local SCCA events, but our local group is very active at the regionals and nationals. Typically, we arrive by 8:00, are there until 4:00, and get 4-5 runs (I've never had more than 5). There are 3 run groups, with about 40-50 cars in each. We work one shift, have one off, and run the 3rd. I think every one I have attended had me running the first group (which sucks, as the track is generally dirty), and working the third, meaning I'm there all day. And it costs $35 - 45 depending on the track.

By comparison, I had 15 or 16 runs at the last GG event (Friday/Saturday, I didn't drive on Sunday when I could have gotten even more), and I missed one session while I was repairing the car. I don't have to work the course, I get to socialize with more like-minded people (ie: vintage cars), and I have the whole GG show to wander around if I want (time permitting). Oh, and I pay $45 for the 3 days.

It sounds like our local events are somewhat opposite experiences...

I don't enjoy going to our local auto-x events, but I need seat time if I want to improve. I really enjoy the GG events, but I've only ever attended the ones in Fort Worth. I wish we had more that we could get to easily, but no other one is less than a full day's drive that I am aware of.

Back to the subject of OUSCI. I've spent the last week putting serious thought into whether I could attend multiple events next year. COTA would be local, but I have a conflict that weekend that I may have to miss COTA for. I can't believe I could even think that, but it's true. NOLA is close enough that I would probably find a way to get there. The next 3 I have looked at are 18+ hour drives for me. That's 2 days of driving each way, 2 days there, meals, hotels, gas, entry fees. Oh, and I need a vehicle to tow with and a trailer. :) It would take a big commitment in time and cash to make those...

I'm not knocking the events at all, I'm just not fortunate enough to live in a place where I can get to many. I don't think the $500 is unreasonable for the event, given the multiple aspects which take place (road course, speed stop, auto-x). I believe we had 5 20-25m sessions on the road course which is more than I generally get at local events. I had 12 or 13 auto-x laps, which again is more than I typically get (and I didn't have to work the course!), and I had 10 or 11 speed stop laps. I think that's pretty decent.

I 100% agree with you Bryan. The GG's event at TMS rocks. We got a bunch of runs, like minded car guys, and a ton of camaraderie, regardless of how we all finished. The USCA event at Texas Motor Speedway was the same. Us hacks had a great time burning gas, tearing up tires, were able to get loads of track time, and had fun BS'ing in the garage/after hours.

The SCCA events are long days with little seat time in North Texas. Maybe different in other parts of the country. The most runs I got in 2-3 years of attending events was 5 runs for an 8-9 hour day. The opportunity cost of my time just did not compute. Plus I am ADD, so the lack of activity bored me to hell. Not my cup of tea.

This is exactly why a group of us (me, Dusold, Chris, Gary, North Texas Camaro Club, Greg, Bryan, and others) decided to partner with a local auto-x event coordinator, Equipe Rapide, and put on our "own" events to emulate a mini-USCA event. We had 25-30 cars (approx 20 of them GTV cars) and charged $75 to $90 for participants to get 20 auto-x runs, a bbq lunch, course workers, and some fun awards. We had some support from a couple sponsors but overall it cost roughly $2,500-$3,000 for Equipe Rapide, parking lot rental, insurance and course workers. We made NO money off these events. We had a TON of fun tho. We were able to have passengers. Introduce others to auto-x. We had families come out and Dad ran his 1st gen Camaro, their daughter/son-in-law ran their 5th gen Camaro and they everyone enjoyed a day of camaraderie. Exactly what the regional USCA events emphasize and we were able to re-create.

For 2015 we investigated a speed stop, auto-x, and road rally/poker run. Had I not moved to Ohio, we would have had 4 events in North Texas with auto-x and speed stop at Lone Star Park. Target was 40 cars...probably would have had minimum 40 runs between both elements in one day. Again, the intent was to emulate the USCA events and bring more guys and gals out to enjoy driving their cars.

I guess what I am saying is any "series" can be enjoyed, especially one like the USCA events. If you really want to have it your way though, go create it yourself. Instead of crapping all over the rules or pointing out what's wrong, be the impetus for change and coordinate an event you believe how it should be and do it yourself. I believe Tim is doing it by investing his money at VIR and it works for him. Steve is taking a different approach which is intriguing as well by investing in a prepped NASA car. Me, I'll have my TA at the GG's event in Columbus in 2016. Some of you guys will go to SCCA or attend one or more OUSCI events. To each their own. No matter what, all these ideas are a lot of fun if you are a car guy. Main issue is you just have to show up.

[GregWeld]

I 100% agree with you Bryan. The GG's event at TMS rocks. We got a bunch of runs, like minded car guys, and a ton of camaraderie, regardless of how we all finished. The USCA event at Texas Motor Speedway was the same. Us hacks had a great time burning gas, tearing up tires, were able to get loads of track time, and had fun BS'ing in the garage/after hours.

The SCCA events are long days with little seat time in North Texas. Maybe different in other parts of the country. The most runs I got in 2-3 years of attending events was 5 runs for an 8-9 hour day. The opportunity cost of my time just did not compute. Plus I am ADD, so the lack of activity bored me to hell. Not my cup of tea.

This is exactly why a group of us (me, Dusold, Chris, Gary, North Texas Camaro Club, Greg, Bryan, and others) decided to partner with a local auto-x event coordinator, Equipe Rapide, and put on our "own" events to emulate a mini-USCA event. We had 25-30 cars (approx 20 of them GTV cars) and charged $75 to $90 for participants to get 20 auto-x runs, a bbq lunch, course workers, and some fun awards. We had some support from a couple sponsors but overall it cost roughly $2,500-$3,000 for Equipe Rapide, parking lot rental, insurance and course workers. We made NO money off these events. We had a TON of fun tho. We were able to have passengers. Introduce others to auto-x. We had families come out and Dad ran his 1st gen Camaro, their daughter/son-in-law ran their 5th gen Camaro and they everyone enjoyed a day of camaraderie. Exactly what the regional USCA events emphasize and we were able to re-create.

For 2015 we investigated a speed stop, auto-x, and road rally/poker run. Had I not moved to Ohio, we would have had 4 events in North Texas with auto-x and speed stop at Lone Star Park. Target was 40 cars...probably would have had minimum 40 runs between both elements in one day. Again, the intent was to emulate the USCA events and bring more guys and gals out to enjoy driving their cars.

I guess what I am saying is any "series" can be enjoyed, especially one like the USCA events. If you really want to have it your way though, go create it yourself. Instead of crapping all over the rules or pointing out what's wrong, be the impetus for change and coordinate an event you believe how it should be and do it yourself. I believe Tim is doing it by investing his money at VIR and it works for him. Steve is taking a different approach which is intriguing as well by investing in a prepped NASA car. Me, I'll have my TA at the GG's event in Columbus in 2016. Some of you guys will go to SCCA or attend one or more OUSCI events. To each their own. No matter what, all these ideas are a lot of fun if you are a car guy. Main issue is you just have to show up.





I just drove the rig 2 1/2 days (so that'll be a 5 day round trip drive) just to drive Laguna Seca for ONE day.... "Just show up" sums it up perfectly. None of these events should struggle to get "us" to show up.

[Gscherer78ta]

I 100% agree with you Bryan. The GG's event at TMS rocks. We got a bunch of runs, like minded car guys, and a ton of camaraderie, regardless of how we all finished. The USCA event at Texas Motor Speedway was the same. Us hacks had a great time burning gas, tearing up tires, were able to get loads of track time, and had fun BS'ing in the garage/after hours.

The SCCA events are long days with little seat time in North Texas. Maybe different in other parts of the country. The most runs I got in 2-3 years of attending events was 5 runs for an 8-9 hour day. The opportunity cost of my time just did not compute. Plus I am ADD, so the lack of activity bored me to hell. Not my cup of tea.

This is exactly why a group of us (me, Dusold, Chris, Gary, North Texas Camaro Club, Greg, Bryan, and others) decided to partner with a local auto-x event coordinator, Equipe Rapide, and put on our "own" events to emulate a mini-USCA event. We had 25-30 cars (approx 20 of them GTV cars) and charged $75 to $90 for participants to get 20 auto-x runs, a bbq lunch, course workers, and some fun awards. We had some support from a couple sponsors but overall it cost roughly $2,500-$3,000 for Equipe Rapide, parking lot rental, insurance and course workers. We made NO money off these events. We had a TON of fun tho. We were able to have passengers. Introduce others to auto-x. We had families come out and Dad ran his 1st gen Camaro, their daughter/son-in-law ran their 5th gen Camaro and they everyone enjoyed a day of camaraderie. Exactly what the regional USCA events emphasize and we were able to re-create.

For 2015 we investigated a speed stop, auto-x, and road rally/poker run. Had I not moved to Ohio, we would have had 4 events in North Texas with auto-x and speed stop at Lone Star Park. Target was 40 cars...probably would have had minimum 40 runs between both elements in one day. Again, the intent was to emulate the USCA events and bring more guys and gals out to enjoy driving their cars.

I guess what I am saying is any "series" can be enjoyed, especially one like the USCA events. If you really want to have it your way though, go create it yourself. Instead of crapping all over the rules or pointing out what's wrong, be the impetus for change and coordinate an event you believe how it should be and do it yourself. I believe Tim is doing it by investing his money at VIR and it works for him. Steve is taking a different approach which is intriguing as well by investing in a prepped NASA car. Me, I'll have my TA at the GG's event in Columbus in 2016. Some of you guys will go to SCCA or attend one or more OUSCI events. To each their own. No matter what, all these ideas are a lot of fun if you are a car guy. Main issue is you just have to show up.


Well said Jay! I do this just for fun and enjoy hanging out with other car guys and helping everyone improve. To me, it's a community not so much a competition.

We will have a Spring and Fall event this year and we will have a speed stop challenge. I took the reigns of the event you started and we had a great time last summer and got our money's worth. With OUSC not coming to the DFW area next year I will set this event up to be similar to what Optima has done because I like that format- lots of driving and very little sitting ( unless you want to sit).

If you're in or near the DFW PM to get on the email list for these events.

Greg