Need advise for a welder

[Streetrod77]

I think its time for me to buy a mig welder. It is needed for body work and suspension work. I would like to get one that can weld up to 1/2 steel. I prefer a 110 but I do have a 220 in the garage. I never have welded before but I have found a teacher. He seems to want me to start with welding without the gas. I would like to know what y'all think because he does not weld car stuff. He does construction work.

[jeds]

I have a Miller 211 and so far it has been an awesome machine. It can run 110 or 240 and comes with an interchangeable plug end. It only goes up-to 3/8" though... What are you welding that's 1/2" thick!?

Also...what's your budget?

[Chad-1stGen]

I had similar goals to you and started taking welding classes at the local college. They don't offer car related welding classes but instead have a full program to train career welders who can do structural and pipe welding.

All students are reqiured to learn on Oxy Acetylene followed by stick (SMAW) before they can pick up a Mig or tig machine. Oxy Acetylene is great for teaching puddle control.

I have been researching my first mig welder a lot lately. I don' think you will find a quality welder that realistically will weld 1/2" on 110v. Also, 1/2" is HUGE and not used on cars... Most frame stuff on cars is way less.

Personally, I've been looking at either the Miller 190 or 211. The only reason I'm considering the 211 is for the ability to use either 110 or 220.

[66fury]

I have a miller 252 mig with a spool gun for doing aluminum also. I have done 3/4 steel with it and up to 1/2 alum without a preheat. Any welder that does 1/2 and up will be 220v.

[Streetrod77]

I said 1/2" but I have never seen anything that thick on a car. Basic car stuff will be welded. I just would like to buy one that I want need to buy a larger one later.

[im4u2nvss]

Like Jed said, the Miller 211 is great. I could not justify the cost for my needs and went with a basic, Lincoln 140. I will be doing sheet metal work, and some thin plate. For anything serious, I can tack it up, then burn it in with buddies Miller.
Also, if doing sheet metal work you will want to use gas.

[raustinss]

For a rookie with the possibility of getting a little more advanced as a fabricator my opinion get a all in one inverter Machine...Lincoln 210 MP.check it out.

[WSSix]

Check out Hobart welders. They are very similar to Miller considering Miller owns them. As a hobbyist, I couldn't justify the cost of a Miller which is typically more professional grade. I have the Hobart 140 and have done my coil over conversion and subframe connectors no problem. It will handle anything I need it to. I can even adapt it to weld aluminum using a spool gun if needed. Since you're wanting 220v, they offer machines that come ready for a spool gun should you want to weld aluminum.

What I would do is look at your budget and be very honest with yourself and what you'll be welding. You may find that a simple, quality 110v welder will handle 90% of what you'll ever do. For the thicker stuff, hiring a pro may prove cheaper in the long run.

[ilikeike]

Sign up for ZORO's email list. They have 30%off 12-24hr fire sales,and carry Miller.

[kevin_l]

I have a miller 211 also. So far I've been pleased with it.

[BBC71Nova]

Another suggestion for Miller 211 from Zoro. I recently upgraded from a Miller 175 to the 211 for no reason other than getting dual voltage and it was practically a free upgrade. I got my 211 early summer before the new inverter based 211 came out. During that time they were running a $200 machine rebate PLUS a free spool gun. Couple that with the 30% Zoro sale and selling my 175 for $550 and it was easy decision.

The dual voltage came in handy last weekend as I took it to my in laws to swap out an rv generator. I was welding 1/8" material using their 110v 30 amp rv shore power circuit. Worked like a champ. Fallback was to use their dryer plug but fortunately didn't need it.

That said, the transformer model is a heavy unit. Transporting the welder and bottle isn't really that practical so weigh that option accordingly.

If you buy new now you'll likely get the inverter model which is smaller and significantly lighter which may make portability practical.

[minendrews68]

i've got the

hobart 140 also. Great welder, no matter which you choose, take my word, use the shielded gas, not the flux wire. Much better weld that way.

[MtotheIKEo]

I originally thought like the OP and wanted the most capable machine, ended up buying a Miller 251. Honestly, I never used that machine anywhere close to it's capability. 90% of what I welded was 3/16" and thinner. When I moved I gave that machine and the large cylinder to my brother and bought a new Miller 211 and small cylinder. Way nicer, machine runs awesome, meets all of my needs and more since it is dual voltage capable, and it's way easier to store.

[Streetrod77]

Thanks for all the info. I will compare the three brands mentioned.

[ErikLS2]

I have a Miller 210 which is just awesome but before that I had a little Lincoln 220V from Home Depot that I added a MIG gas package too and it was fine also. I welded an entire Jeep frame and roll cage together with it no problem.

[Depthrecordings]

Miller 211 here also. Awesome welder!

[GregWeld]

Thanks for all the info. I will compare the three brands mentioned.



Have to say it.... Don't learn from a guy that doesn't use gas.... You'll learn more from watching YouTube ---- search for "welding tips and tricks" Jody has videos for basic MIG, and beginners, just choose the basic videos to begin with.

If you can afford the $$ and the floor space.... Get a better machine than you think you want/need. You'll only buy one and you'll have it for years... And if you're any good at welding - there's no end to what you can fix or want to make.

[MODO Innovations]

If you can afford the $$ and the floor space.... Get a better machine than you think you want/need. You'll only buy one and you'll have it for years... And if you're any good at welding - there's no end to what you can fix or want to make.

I have to agree with Greg on the statement above.

[warriorridge]

I have a Hobart 210mvp. It will run on either 110 or 220 volts. It is rated for 3/8 single pass, but that doesn't that doesn't mean you can't ever weld anything thicker. You just have to make your joint right and maybe use more than one pass. Honestly, for automotive work you will rarely have anything thicker than 1/4, so something like the Hobart 210 or miller 211 will be more than adequate for automotive work, with enough extra capacity to do some occasional 3/8 or 1/2. The hobart 210 and miller 211 can run on either 110 volt (although not at full capacity) or 220 volt, so that may be an option for you. The Hobart and miller use the same drive system and torch, but use different electronics, Hobart has stepped voltage control, and the miller has variable voltage control.
As for flux core wire/no gas vs solid wire/gas, the advantage for flux core wire is that it is more tolorant for dirty or rusty metal,

[warriorridge]

I have a Hobart 210mvp. It will run on either 110 or 220 volts. It is rated for 3/8 single pass, but that doesn't that doesn't mean you can't ever weld anything thicker. You just have to make your joint right and maybe use more than one pass. Honestly, for automotive work you will rarely have anything thicker than 1/4, so something like the Hobart 210 or miller 211 will be more than adequate for automotive work, with enough extra capacity to do some occasional 3/8 or 1/2. The hobart 210 and miller 211 can run on either 110 volt (although not at full capacity) or 220 volt, so that may be an option for you. The Hobart and miller use the same drive system and torch, but use different electronics, Hobart has stepped voltage control, and the miller has variable voltage control.
As for flux core wire/no gas vs solid wire/gas, the advantage for flux core wire is that it is more tolorant of dirty or rusty metal, and you don't have to carry a gas cylinder. The disadvantage is that it doesn't weld as nicely, more spatter than with gas, and the weld has a slag coating that will need to be removed. Also flux core won't work for thin sheet metal.
Solid wire with gas works much nicer, for automotive work, I would recommend using gas. Hope this helps...

[rustomatic]

To pile on to a pile of the same suggestion, I treated myself to a Miller 211 earlier this year (because I figured the latest version of my forever changing car deserved better), along with a big gas bottle, and it's really convinced people that I have some kind of skill (they are wrong). It's a great machine, and is a million times better than my old Eastwood 135 (observe internal hardware/drive mechanism), which still has a purpose or two--it has been dedicated to crappy flux-core welds forever . . .

[TheJDMan]

I have been welding for over 40 years in one form or another and I have always had the best luck with Lincoln welders. I have had several stick welders but my first MIG was a Lincoln 140 110vac and I gave that to my brother when I upgraded to my current Lincoln 256. For automotive welding and occasional heavy welding I would recommend the Lincoln Power MIG 210 which is also a dual 110/220 input. Like some have said, don't waste your time on flux core, learn to use the proper shielding gas. The bottom line is that both Miller and Lincoln are top of the line welders, while brands such as Hobart and other no name welders are lower cost units.

[GregWeld]

You're asking about MIG welders and my recommendation never waivers about getting the very best one you can.... because of future use - and because this is a tool you'll have for a very long time. I was reminded of this today when at "the shed" and I decided I hadn't TIG welded for a couple weeks --- and if I was going to do some - I might as well butt weld some box cutter blades together for practice. Why do I mention this? Because I bought a TIG machine - that at the time had many more bells and whistles than I might use... I bought a Miller 200 DX. Today - welding the edges of razor blades together - I needed everything that machine could muster up! Pulse - with front and background splitting...and a super steady arc... And while it took me several tries experimenting with the settings - the machine was capable of delivering what I needed and I was successful in welding them with no filler... and a bead that measured .0724 (about two hairs worth).

Just sayin' --- today was proof of why I make the "get the best you can" because you never know what you're going to do going forward.

[Che70velle]

Pictures Greg, or it never happened...:poke:

[GregWeld]

Pictures Greg, or it never happened...:poke:



FINE!! LOL




set up was a little tricky!! Took me about 4 pairs of blades to get the machine set....


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/IMG_8812.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/WELDING/IMG_8812.jpg.html)





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/IMG_8814.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/WELDING/IMG_8814.jpg.html)







A TEST BEAD - no filler..... just to get the machine set to run a puddle.....







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/IMG_8816.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/WELDING/IMG_8816.jpg.html)





Found I had to have a super sharp tungsten! In order to focus the arc....







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/IMG_8818.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/WELDING/IMG_8818.jpg.html)







DONE!!


Now ---- my old eyes really struggled with finding and keeping the joint.... so there's a little wandering.

JUST FYI --- That "bead" --- no filler --- is .0724" wide.... that's about 2 hairs width!! No kidding!! I measured it.





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/gregweld/WELDING/IMG_8817.jpg (http://s919.photobucket.com/user/gregweld/media/WELDING/IMG_8817.jpg.html)

[Ron Sutton]

And you need a good helmet. :)


.

[GregWeld]

That was the reason I was having trouble seeing the joint!!!

[Che70velle]

Greg, that's crazy small. All kidding aside concerning helmets, I bought a new auto dimming adjustable helmet, that goes down to a 7 shade, and for the first time I could see my work with having to rig up lighting. I can weld SO much better now that I can see what I'm doing.
Sorry about the hi-jack OP!

[GregWeld]

Greg, that's crazy small. All kidding aside concerning helmets, I bought a new auto dimming adjustable helmet, that goes down to a 7 shade, and for the first time I could see my work with having to rig up lighting. I can weld SO much better now that I can see what I'm doing.
Sorry about the hi-jack OP!



I've said that dozens of times in various welding thread discussions on here -- if you can't see - you can't weld!!

I had the machine set at 20 amps (variable with my foot pedal control) and had it also set on pulse -- and holding a really really tight arc..... so "sight" was an issue! There just wasn't much light running ahead of the torch. There isn't much of a "joint" when butting two razor blades!! I'd have to stop - get back on the butt joint and start running some more.

Glad you got a good quality helmet! It makes a world of difference.

[WSSix]

x2 once I got my Hobart auto helmet, I could see what I was doing. My welding is still nothing special but I can see what I'm doing wrong now :D

[66fury]

greg, did you mean to say .007 for the weld width,cuz .07 is over a 1/116 th inch which is way big for a hair.nonetheless ,great welding skill.had a guy at the shop that used to cut beer cans in half and weld them back up,pretty cool.

[GregWeld]

greg, did you mean to say .007 for the weld width,cuz .07 is over a 1/116 th inch which is way big for a hair.nonetheless ,great welding skill.had a guy at the shop that used to cut beer cans in half and weld them back up,pretty cool.



Yeah Mark --- I was being a bit funny and couldn't (wouldn't) say what I wanted to...but I'm sure it was more than just two hairs width. It wasn't very wide... but more than a couple hairs. LOL


I was quite impressed with how hard it was to weld! There is just nothing there when you're on the edges. It would be easier to lap 'em just a bit - but then that would take all the fun away!


I'm going to try the cans - I've been poking around the internet, and the easier way is to weld two bottoms together, because they're supposed to be thicker at the bottoms.

[KPC67]

I'm going to try the cans - I've been poking around the internet, and the easier way is to weld two bottoms together, because they're supposed to be thicker at the bottoms.

Isn't that cheating!?

[GregWeld]

Isn't that cheating!?




What's your point Kevin?? :action-smiley-027:

[CRCRFT78]

Lol ^^^^

[rallystyle]

looks like most are using the miller 211 . any one had a chance to use the new inverter model one ? was looking at the miller 211 or the lincoln mp210 setup. any one use that yet? i will not be stick welding and have access to a tig when i need it.

[98ssnova]

So I have a Miller Matic 141 MIG used so far with good results. Can you guy think of anything that would limit me with using to build my car. Say frame mods etc? Thanks guys!

[GregWeld]

So I have a Miller Matic 141 MIG used so far with good results. Can you guy think of anything that would limit me with using to build my car. Say frame mods etc? Thanks guys!


Your 141 is rated to 3/16" - so frame mods are about at it's max - but certainly doable. What people don't factor in when buying welders etc is the DUTY CYCLE.... yours is rated 90 Amps @ 20% Duty Cycle. There's where the price of the machine etc make it a "home owner" or light duty machine. My 211 has a 160 amp @ 60% duty cycle rating.

Given that most of our welding for hot rod projects are for short bursts... some of this is perfectly adequate. It wouldn't be if we were in a job shop trying to crank out parts all day.

[98ssnova]

Your 141 is rated to 3/16" - so frame mods are about at it's max - but certainly doable. What people don't factor in when buying welders etc is the DUTY CYCLE.... yours is rated 90 Amps @ 20% Duty Cycle. There's where the price of the machine etc make it a "home owner" or light duty machine. My 211 has a 160 amp @ 60% duty cycle rating.

Given that most of our welding for hot rod projects are for short bursts... some of this is perfectly adequate. It wouldn't be if we were in a job shop trying to crank out parts all day.
Thanks Greg it was free I won at the company Holiday party. So I will take that should be just fine for what I want to do.

[GregWeld]

Thanks Greg it was free I won at the company Holiday party. So I will take that should be just fine for what I want to do.



Heck yeah you lucky dog!!! I won a bowling ball once... that was it! For my entire life -- I'd much rather win a Miller welder!!

[GregWeld]

Remember too ---- the welder ratings for gauge are what they're capable of in ONE PASS. Nobody says you have to weld anything in one pass.

[rallystyle]

Well i moved and now have a spot for some welders. i had access to a Lincoln 175 tig before and now i dont have anything. looking to add a mig welder to the mix. was looking at the miller 141 or 211. maybe 215. i would be using it to put in sub frame connectors and mini tubs. i will buy a tig down the road as it is my preferred method of welding. any feed back on which way you would go? or any other machines i should look at? thanks

[GregWeld]

Well i moved and now have a spot for some welders. i had access to a Lincoln 175 tig before and now i dont have anything. looking to add a mig welder to the mix. was looking at the miller 141 or 211. maybe 215. i would be using it to put in sub frame connectors and mini tubs. i will buy a tig down the road as it is my preferred method of welding. any feed back on which way you would go? or any other machines i should look at? thanks

I've always advocated to buy the larger machines if you can.... they're just simply better welders and allow you to do whatever you feel like vs what you "can". once you own a welder -- you'll find all kinds of friends that need repairs on gates -- or broken whatever....

I too, far prefer a TIG machine -- water cooled -- with all the bells and whistles -- because you can then weld almost anything. But of course - the cost is X gazillion more than a MIG

[SSLance]

I've been getting reacquainted with my newish Miller 211 the past week or so and for a home shop, it's really nice. I am NOT a welder but once I get the wire speed and amps set I can do alright. This machine speeds that process up for sure.

Did this today butt welding two 0.25" thick pieces of metal with the machine plugged into 20 amp 120v plug and 0.24 wire...

https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Monte-Carlo-Barney/i-8wwrg7s/0/2a5f7f0b/XL/20181007_150018-XL.jpg

[DT69Cam]

What do you guys think about using .030 wire ? I have a Miller 140 and have not tried .024 wire yet. Thx.

[GregWeld]

Depends on what you're welding.... not really about preference....

I prefer smaller wire when stitching thin sheetmetal.... and then I also clip a point on it... but those are just preferences and techniques.

[SSLance]

This is my first time trying 024 wire. It lets you move slower and be more deliberate and control the puddle better which is good for me right now welding on 0.120 steel.

One thing I don't like about the small wire is if you stick it to what you are welding, the pusher wheel will fold it almost instantly inside the welder and it's a pull, cut off and refeed deal before you can get started again. After about the third time doing that one gets MUCH more careful about what one does with the tip of his wire. :censored:

[rallystyle]

Looks like i will be adding a 211 to buy list. i have to put floor pans in the el camino so i will be picking up some .024 to go with it then. now if i could find the a good deal on a dynasty tig.

[FaBrycation]

This is my first time trying 024 wire. It lets you move slower and be more deliberate and control the puddle better which is good for me right now welding on 0.120 steel.

One thing I don't like about the small wire is if you stick it to what you are welding, the pusher wheel will fold it almost instantly inside the welder and it's a pull, cut off and refeed deal before you can get started again. After about the third time doing that one gets MUCH more careful about what one does with the tip of his wire. :censored:


On the topic of creating a bird's nest in your machine. In the situation you are describing, it sounds to me like you need to back off the tension on your feeder wheel. A rule of thumb is that you should be able to pinch the wire coming out of your gun with your fingers and be able to stop the wire with your feeder wheel spinning without folding up the wire. Back off of your tension until this is possible and you will be golden. I've been using .024 wire for years and haven't had a single bird's nest issue for years either using this technique.


Hope this helps


Brycen

[SSLance]

Thanks Brycen... I can try that for sure...