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bad.samaritan
09-21-2015, 09:35 PM
I bought the SPAL twin 11" fan setup and their controller, a few years ago and the controller has died according to tech support and there is no replacement option from them.

So I'm looking for a PWM fan controller, preferably with the thread in style sensor. I like DCcontrols but it seems he only does probe style sensors.

Anyone have any experience with the flex-a-lite or painless controllers?


Can the Entropy PWM fan controller be used as a stand alone setup?

Thanks,

Mason

craig510
09-22-2015, 12:25 AM
I bought the SPAL twin 11" fan setup and their controller, a few years ago and the controller has died according to tech support and there is no replacement option from them.

So I'm looking for a PWM fan controller, preferably with the thread in style sensor. I like DCcontrols but it seems he only does probe style sensors.

Anyone have any experience with the flex-a-lite or painless controllers?


Can the Entropy PWM fan controller be used as a stand alone setup?

Thanks,

Mason

May not be directly applicable, I have a 2 speed controller, but I used a probe style (that is suppose to be shoved into the radiator fins) with a drilled out compression fitting. You can get an appropriate size compression fitting and drill it out so the prob can pass through and make good contact with the fluid. Swagelok sells pre-drilled fittings, but you can make your own pretty easy.

Good luck.

bad.samaritan
09-22-2015, 06:42 AM
Thanks, who makes your controller? I'd like to look into that

craig510
09-22-2015, 12:40 PM
This is the one I have. I have been using it for 3 years with no issues, but it has poor reviews now.

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/hda-3654?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKEAjw-IOwBRD1wrTC27fSjFISJABUDZ17zuVCPmPBvuaWjcNGeHm8jgo ynQZSzlR-I7SszpUJDhoCDWnw_wcB

GregWeld
09-22-2015, 04:25 PM
Might take a look at this company. I have not used them - but their product seems pretty "robust" and they have various types of sensors if you just ask.

Having said that --- I wish CarlC -- AKA mister VAPORWORKS would produce a robust PWM system for us!!



http://www.autocoolguy.com



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GregWeld
09-22-2015, 04:38 PM
Or this one from PAINLESS.....


Here's their page - as they make several for various applications:



http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/fan5

Blown353
09-23-2015, 10:13 AM
Having said that --- I wish CarlC -- AKA mister VAPORWORKS would produce a robust PWM system for us!!



Correct me if I'm wrong and things have changed since I purchased about 3 years ago but my Vaporworx controller is made by DC Controls. DC Controls also makes a nice PWM controller, one of if not the first PWM aftermarket unit to the market that I can recall. I've installed 4 of them over the years on friends cars and none have ever had an issue.

However, as the OP mentioned, he wants a thread-in style probe and DC only makes them with a dry-style probe for direct fin contact. While I'd also prefer a thread in wet-probe for cosmetics in reality DC's dry fin contact probe works *extremely* well and the unit is very accurate and repeatable. I'll let the fin-probe slide because the rest of the unit works fantastic.

CarlC
09-24-2015, 03:56 PM
Check out the new Derale PWM fan controller. I can attest to the robustness of the design and function ;-)

It has a screw in option for the sensor as well.

What can also be done with excellent results is to take the DC Controls press-in sensor, remove the covering, and epoxy it into a fitting. On the Camaro an old temperature sensor was gutted so only the brass housing remained. The sensor was then potted into the sensor body. A 3" pigtail/plug was added to make installation easier. Has worked flawlessly. The sensor is small enough to fit in quite small NPT fittings as well.

130fe
09-24-2015, 05:27 PM
Carl, are you using the Derale 16795 controller? http://derale.com/products/electric-fans/fan-controllers/pwm-controller/pwm-fan-controller-push-in-probe-detail Are you using one controller for 2 fans and AC or more than one controller. Thanks for any info.

CarlC
09-24-2015, 10:26 PM
I have an older DCC version in the Camaro. It drives a Mark VIII single fan and no AC.

If memory serves the Derale part has an AC override function and can drive multiple fans at the same time.

BonzoHansen
09-24-2015, 10:53 PM
Interesting idea.

Carl, do you know if it is ok to put a connector on the dcc temp lead? I want to put a weatherpack on it so i don't have to pull the sensor out of the rad fins.

CarlC
09-25-2015, 12:11 AM
That's what was done on mine since screwing in the modified sensor would be tough. Try to put the connector on such that it can be supported by zip ties, clamp, etc. The weight should not be supported by the fit of the sensor.

BonzoHansen
09-25-2015, 09:08 PM
Thanks for the info!

bad.samaritan
09-27-2015, 12:35 AM
Thanks for all of the replies guys, I picked up the controller from entropy radiators. It's not PWM in the version I am using, but so far I am happy with it. I am about 2/3 of the way done installing it. I'll post back in here once I get some miles on the car with it working.

snappytravis
10-11-2015, 04:42 PM
Or this one from PAINLESS.....


Here's their page - as they make several for various applications:



http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/fan5

I had this controller, I installed it, Had problems sent it in to Painless and finally after 3 weeks called them to see what was up. They said they where changing a few things.. I received it back and It had new setup instructions. Flip the switch up and hold the red button for 3 seconds. It worked a couple of times then wouldn't work right again. I called Painless (Pain in the azz) and they said that if It was there fault they would warranty it. If not it would cost me $160.00. So I shipped it back to summit and they refunded my money. GW said that I should go with relays, I ordered two relays and trigger them with a ground from my holley hp ecu at desired temps. Works like a charm.. So not saying not to try it if you desire, Just telling you my experience with it. Good luck

andrewb70
10-11-2015, 05:28 PM
I had this controller, I installed it, Had problems sent it in to Painless and finally after 3 weeks called them to see what was up. They said they where changing a few things.. I received it back and It had new setup instructions. Flip the switch up and hold the red button for 3 seconds. It worked a couple of times then wouldn't work right again. I called Painless (Pain in the azz) and they said that if It was there fault they would warranty it. If not it would cost me $160.00. So I shipped it back to summit and they refunded my money. GW said that I should go with relays, I ordered two relays and trigger them with a ground from my holley hp ecu at desired temps. Works like a charm.. So not saying not to try it if you desire, Just telling you my experience with it. Good luck

If you have a Holley HP, all you need is the C6 Corvette fan controller. The Holley HP can be configured to send a PWM- signal, which the C6 controller is looking for. It works like a charm!

I made a video a while back showing how it works with the Dominator ECU, but it would be the same for the HP.

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The biggest advantage is that there is no big surge when the fan kicks on and it only runs as fast as it needs to to keep the engine cool. I rarely see more than 50% speed.

Andrew

snappytravis
10-11-2015, 08:57 PM
If you have a Holley HP, all you need is the C6 Corvette fan controller. The Holley HP can be configured to send a PWM- signal, which the C6 controller is looking for. It works like a charm!

I made a video a while back showing how it works with the Dominator ECU, but it would be the same for the HP.

7C-Y0VsD6pY

The biggest advantage is that there is no big surge when the fan kicks on and it only runs as fast as it needs to to keep the engine cool. I rarely see more than 50% speed.

Andrew

I did look at that option somewhat Andrew, That is pretty sweet setup. However at the time It didn't seem that the main plug for the pwm controller was available. How did you terminate your wires to this end? I also am running 2 11 inch spal fans. I was under the understanding that I would need two pwm controllers. If I was to do It again I may try the corvette fan controller. What fan setup are you running?
The holley ecu's are pretty nice pieces when it comes to doing custom things such as this. I was over it and wanted to move on, to the next thing on the list and that is why I went with the relay setup. It was a simple solution. Thanks for the reply and the video. I will keep it in mind on the next project. :thumbsup:

andrewb70
10-11-2015, 09:07 PM
I did look at that option somewhat Andrew, That is pretty sweet setup. However at the time It didn't seem that the main plug for the pwm controller was available. How did you terminate your wires to this end? I also am running 2 11 inch spal fans. I was under the understanding that I would need two pwm controllers. If I was to do It again I may try the corvette fan controller. What fan setup are you running?
The holley ecu's are pretty nice pieces when it comes to doing custom things such as this. I was over it and wanted to move on, to the next thing on the list and that is why I went with the relay setup. It was a simple solution. Thanks for the reply and the video. I will keep it in mind on the next project. :thumbsup:

The consensus in this thread:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=40215

is that the C6 fan controller will handle dual 11" fans without issues.

I am using a C6 fan. It is a cheap Dorman fan that was on super sale on Amazon for 80 bucks and it came with the proper connector to mate with the C6 controller. The C6 fan is rated at 400 watts, which works out to about a 31 amp draw at 13 volts. I used a Metripack 480 (32 amp) series 3 cavity connector on the other side to provide power and PWM- signal to the controller.

Andrew

snappytravis
10-11-2015, 09:26 PM
The consensus in this thread:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=40215

is that the C6 fan controller will handle dual 11" fans without issues.

I am using a C6 fan. It is a cheap Dorman fan that was on super sale on Amazon for 80 bucks and it came with the proper connector to mate with the C6 controller. The C6 fan is rated at 400 watts, which works out to about a 31 amp draw at 13 volts. I used a Metripack 480 (32 amp) series 3 cavity connector on the other side to provide power and PWM- signal to the controller.

Andrew

So your fan setup is like this one? Then I plugs into controller. Then on the input side of pwm controller you have power, ground and trigger wire from your holley hp output extension harness?

andrewb70
10-11-2015, 10:10 PM
So your fan setup is like this one? Then I plugs into controller. Then on the input side of pwm controller you have power, ground and trigger wire from your holley hp output extension harness?

Yes, that is my fan. The shroud even has a place for the controller to sit in.

There are a lot of details in my build thread:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1743605-1967-cougar-build-over-500-pictures-videos.html

The controller has 5 wires. Positive and negative that go to the fan, the positive and negative from the vehicle power, and the PWM- signal wire.

For power going into the controller I have the negative coming directly from the battery and the positive also from the battery but going through a 40 amp circuit breaker connected through the 3 cavity metripack 480 connector.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/cougar/473.jpg

The PWM- signal wire goes from the 558-400 sub harness that connects to the Holley main harness. That wire also goes into the 3 cavity metripack 480 connector. All power wires are 10 gauge, while the signal wire is only 20 gauge. The 558-400 harness comes with 20 feet for each lead so there is plenty to run just about anywhere. Few more pics...

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/cougar/478.jpg


http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/cougar/479.jpg

Andrew

snappytravis
10-11-2015, 10:43 PM
Yes, that is my fan. The shroud even has a place for the controller to sit in.

There are a lot of details in my build thread:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1743605-1967-cougar-build-over-500-pictures-videos.html

The controller has 5 wires. Positive and negative that go to the fan, the positive and negative from the vehicle power, and the PWM- signal wire.

For power going into the controller I have the negative coming directly from the battery and the positive also from the battery but going through a 40 amp circuit breaker connected through the 3 cavity metripack 480 connector.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/cougar/473.jpg

The PWM- signal wire goes from the 558-400 sub harness that connects to the Holley main harness. That wire also goes into the 3 cavity metripack 480 connector. All power wires are 10 gauge, while the signal wire is only 20 gauge. The 558-400 harness comes with 20 feet for each lead so there is plenty to run just about anywhere. Few more pics...

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/cougar/478.jpg


http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/cougar/479.jpg

Andrew

It seems that I talked to spal about my fans, and they said that the corvette fans are brushless. I can't remember for sure, It may have been that my fans wouldn't work with the pwm controller. I can't remember. I think that is a sweet setup for sure. If I do another project I may go that route. Good Job and thanks for sharing the info. I know on Lous Change build thread they installed the same controllers. I will have to find it and see what fans they ran. They used 2 corvette controllers on it.
Thanks again, I understand it a lot better now.

andrewb70
10-12-2015, 11:00 AM
It seems that I talked to spal about my fans, and they said that the corvette fans are brushless. I can't remember for sure, It may have been that my fans wouldn't work with the pwm controller. I can't remember. I think that is a sweet setup for sure. If I do another project I may go that route. Good Job and thanks for sharing the info. I know on Lous Change build thread they installed the same controllers. I will have to find it and see what fans they ran. They used 2 corvette controllers on it.
Thanks again, I understand it a lot better now.

I can't imagine that an 80 dollar fan is anything fancy. I really don't see a link between PWM control and whether a fan motor is brushless or not. The ECU send a duty cycle command to the C6 controller, based on that command, the controller adjusts output voltage to the fan. It's as simple as that.

I think using 2 controllers is overkill. What's the current draw of the 11" Spal fans? My guess is that it is under 15 amps each.

Andrew

GregWeld
10-12-2015, 02:17 PM
I can't imagine that an 80 dollar fan is anything fancy. I really don't see a link between PWM control and whether a fan motor is brushless or not. The ECU send a duty cycle command to the C6 controller, based on that command, the controller adjusts output voltage to the fan. It's as simple as that.

I think using 2 controllers is overkill. What's the current draw of the 11" Spal fans? My guess is that it is under 15 amps each.

Andrew



Big difference when you're using PWM.... from what I've read doing research.

andrewb70
10-12-2015, 09:34 PM
Big difference when you're using PWM.... from what I've read doing research.

Greg,

Are you referring to PWM in general or using a brushless fan or both?

I absolutely love my set-up. The fan kicks on slowly and gently and speeds up as needed. Most of the time you can't even hear it run.

Andrew

Larry R
04-21-2017, 10:23 PM
Greg,

Are you referring to PWM in general or using a brushless fan or both?

I absolutely love my set-up. The fan kicks on slowly and gently and speeds up as needed. Most of the time you can't even hear it run.

Andrew

How does one incorporate operating an air conditioning compressor in your set up? I have seen some ideas on the forum, but am still not sure how to do it.

Thanks, Larry

andrewb70
04-22-2017, 09:25 AM
How does one incorporate operating an air conditioning compressor in your set up? I have seen some ideas on the forum, but am still not sure how to do it.

Thanks, Larry

Larry,

I don't have AC, so I can't help. Others have done this, so hopefully they will give you some input. The following is a guess:

The AC compressor is controlled by the VA computer and not by the engine ECU. The ECU monitors AC pressure and coolant temp and adjusts the fan speed accordingly.

Andrew

Larry R
04-22-2017, 11:37 PM
Larry,

I don't have AC, so I can't help. Others have done this, so hopefully they will give you some input. The following is a guess:

The AC compressor is controlled by the VA computer and not by the engine ECU. The ECU monitors AC pressure and coolant temp and adjusts the fan speed accordingly.

Andrew

I am not familiar with the VA computer. Can you give me some insight? Thanks, Larry

andrewb70
04-23-2017, 05:53 PM
I am not familiar with the VA computer. Can you give me some insight? Thanks, Larry

I wish I could, but as I said before, I don't have A/C on my cars.

Andrew

Larry R
04-23-2017, 06:28 PM
I wish I could, but as I said before, I don't have A/C on my cars.

Andrew

I wasn't trying to be obtuse, I did read that you do not have A/C. But since you mentioned the compressor was controlled by the VA computer, I was hoping you had some knowledge of that.

I have been studying this and I can see how to incorporate the PWM with the fans and my Holley HP, but not the A/C. One way I came up with to speed up the fans when the A/C comes on, is to use have the signal from the trinary switch go to a relay to shift the power to the fans from the PWM to a constant 12 volts for the duration of the higher pressure seen by the trinary switch. I would rather have it all go through the PWM but I don't believe I have enough I/O's with my HP to do this. Again, thanks for your input. Larry

andrewb70
04-23-2017, 07:04 PM
I wasn't trying to be obtuse, I did read that you do not have A/C. But since you mentioned the compressor was controlled by the VA computer, I was hoping you had some knowledge of that.

I have been studying this and I can see how to incorporate the PWM with the fans and my Holley HP, but not the A/C. One way I came up with to speed up the fans when the A/C comes on, is to use have the signal from the trinary switch go to a relay to shift the power to the fans from the PWM to a constant 12 volts for the duration of the higher pressure seen by the trinary switch. I would rather have it all go through the PWM but I don't believe I have enough I/O's with my HP to do this. Again, thanks for your input. Larry

Toward the end of my Cougar build thread, I discuss how to configure the Holley software to have two PWM tables one for AC on and one for AC off. This way you can have the fans come on when the compressor is on.

http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/109464-1967-Cougar-build-(over-700-pictures-and-videos)

Andrew