What to build....??

[Radlark]

Ok one of the choices is not a first gen Camaro lol....

ok guys I have a choice to build one of 2 cars the rust is about equal on both cars, I have a 65 Skylark and a 67 Skylark to choose from both 2 door coupes trunk pans on both need replacing, and some small patch panels here there (I have attached a few pics). You don't see too many Skylarks but you see alot of Chevelles.

The 67 Has a warmed over 300 motor with a full Flowmaster exhaust that runs, the 65 starts but has massive blowby .......when I look at these two cars it seems as though it's 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other but it still seems like a tough choice.....I need some other opinions lol.

65 Skylarkhttp://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/gthmcty1/IMG_0333.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/gthmcty1/media/IMG_0333.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/gthmcty1/Skylarks/IMG_0340.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/gthmcty1/media/Skylarks/IMG_0340.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/gthmcty1/Skylarks/IMG_0341.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/gthmcty1/media/Skylarks/IMG_0341.jpg.html)


67

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/gthmcty1/Skylarks/IMG_0378.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/gthmcty1/media/Skylarks/IMG_0378.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/gthmcty1/Skylarks/IMG_0370.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/gthmcty1/media/Skylarks/IMG_0370.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/gthmcty1/Skylarks/IMG_0376.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/gthmcty1/media/Skylarks/IMG_0376.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/gthmcty1/Skylarks/IMG_0369.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/gthmcty1/media/Skylarks/IMG_0369.jpg.html)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/gthmcty1/Skylarks/IMG_0360.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/gthmcty1/media/Skylarks/IMG_0360.jpg.html)

[Build-It-Break-it]

I look at any car I build as an investment. If I can't get back at least 75 to 80%of my money if I ever decide to sell it then it's not worth my time. That said I personally wouldn't invest my money in either.

I'd look for another option. These cars become money pits really fast.

[Radlark]

I look at any car I build as an investment. If I can't get back at least 75 to 80%of my money if I ever decide to sell it then it's not worth my time. That said I personally wouldn't invest my money in either.

I'd look for another option. These cars become money pits really fast.

Don't really have an option besides these two they are sitting in my garage! I am trying to decide which to build, my money isn't long enough for a first gen Cam/FB (not really a big fan anyways), So I have to choose the lesser of 2 evils here, the price of a chevelle, Nova in either of these conditions would be in the 4-5K range these were practically dropped in my lap.

I understand BIB that you wouldn't invest but I am looking at the hand I am dealt with.....I have seen some cars on here that are STRAIGHT RUST BUCKETS and I know that some of these guys that have spent the cash to do it will not see ANY where close to what they have into them....... I guess I will try and make the best of the 67 I like the body style better.

[JohnC]

If I had to pick between those two, I'd pick the '65. It's smaller, lighter, and will feel more nimble with performance upgrades. Plus, it looks like it's in a little better shape.

Good luck with your decision and your project.

John

[Radlark]

If I had to pick between those two, I'd pick the '65. It's smaller, lighter, and will feel more nimble with performance upgrades. Plus, it looks like it's in a little better shape.

Good luck with your decision and your project.

John

JohnC thanks for your input the 65 actually is in a little better shape , I also look at the 67 and when I see them fixed up they see to catch the eye more. Ughhhh I hate the decision making process lol.

[GregWeld]

If money is an issue - don't start either one of them.


If rust repair is an issue - don't start either one of them.


If getting your "investment" back is an issue - don't start either one of them.


If I was going to do ONE - it'd be the '65 - and I'd drop a crate LS3 motor in it like Jason Rushforth did in his. Some decent stance - simple almost stock looking interior - a great set of wheels.... and you'd have a nice car. Not sure what the suspension platform is - but I'd keep that simple but upgraded... Tubular A arms - coil overs - triangulated 4 link - beefy reared... nice set of wildwood brakes (6's and 4's)... Single stage urethane paint job... a sleeper color. 60's cream or biege... or bronze color... a "grandmas" color.

When you get all done you should be right around 125 grand in a car worth about 30....

[Radlark]

If money is an issue - don't start either one of them.


If rust repair is an issue - don't start either one of them.


If getting your "investment" back is an issue - don't start either one of them.


If I was going to do ONE - it'd be the '65 - and I'd drop a crate LS3 motor in it like Jason Rushforth did in his. Some decent stance - simple almost stock looking interior - a great set of wheels.... and you'd have a nice car. Not sure what the suspension platform is - but I'd keep that simple but upgraded... Tubular A arms - coil overs - triangulated 4 link - beefy reared... nice set of wildwood brakes (6's and 4's)... Single stage urethane paint job... a sleeper color. 60's cream or biege... or bronze color... a "grandmas" color.

When you get all done you should be right around 125 grand in a car worth about 30....


Greg LMAO!!! 125g for 30k! The platform is the same platform as the chevelle they are both A-bodies so suspension is plentiful!!!

Alot of the work I will be doing myself so like 80% of the folk on the board it will take some time being done in my 3 car garage.....

[GregWeld]

Greg LMAO!!! 125g for 30k! The platform is the same platform as the chevelle they are both A-bodies so suspension is plentiful!!!

Alot of the work I will be doing myself so like 80% of the folk on the board it will take some time being done in my 3 car garage.....



I just ran some quick numbers - including paint and interior... 100K will get it done if you don't have to buy too much sheetmetal. That's doing ALL the work yourself.

[Vegas69]

I'm with Greg, you might as well take your money for a ride and let it fly out the window. I'd build something that is more in demand. I don't care what anybody says, you will sell it eventually.

[Radlark]

Your right I just might sell it eventually......but like I said these were practically dropped into my lap, I don't have a 100k so I might as well just choose one and throw my money at it lol:G-Dub:

[Sieg]

Your right I just might sell it eventually......but like I said these were practically dropped into my lap, I don't have a 100k so I might as well just choose one and throw my money at it lol:G-Dub:

If they were dropped in your lap then your cost may be next to nothing and you can most likely sell as is for a profit or, you can bust your butt for how many hours fixing rust and unknowns, spend way more than you anticipated for parts and sell the car for how much of a loss?

[Radlark]

I think maybe I gave you guys the wrong impression that I am trying to build a 50-100k car ...I am not trying to put that type of money into a car.

I appreciate all your feedback I am just wanting to build a nice streetable semi pro-touring car on a budget (I know pro-touring and budget SHOULD NOT go together in the same sentence LOL), I was jut trying to get opinions on BODY STYLE recommendations between the two cars.

Skylarks are the Chevelles of the Buick world, I guess I must be looking at it from a different point of view when it comes to 64-72 skylark especially when the suspension, brakes basically everything on the chassis is the same as the Chevelle down to the fuel tanks........I guess compared to some of the beginning projects that appear on this board where you see a RUSTED HULK of a shell and they have to buy ALL new sheet metal and have about 3-5k (MAYBE EVEN MORE) in sheet metal alone and compared to the body repairs of the 2 cars that I am dealing with I guess to me I consider myself lucky.

Again I realize that I will not get out what I have into the car but at the same time I realize that, so I am being realistic in which ever body I decide to go with ....again thanks for those that chimed in and offered up there thoughts.

[Sieg]

FWIW - I didn't think you were going high dollar.

Sit down with note pad and start collecting realistic parts prices, factor labor, and other build related consumables then research the resale market. I just can't see how you can turn a profit on a car that's relatively low demand.

The only way I could justify the project would be if I was going to keep it a reasonable length of time and enjoy driving it.

I get into a project and usually end up adding another 10% to the cost just in new tools etc. :D

[Radlark]

FWIW - I didn't think you were going high dollar.

Sit down with note pad and start collecting realistic parts prices, factor labor, and other build related consumables then research the resale market. I just can't see how you can turn a profit on a car that's relatively low demand.

The only way I could justify the project would be if I was going to keep it a reasonable length of time and enjoy driving it.

I get into a project and usually end up adding another 10% to the cost just in new tools etc. :D

Sieg, I will take your advice on that notepad and pen :thankyou: , granted when all said and done it will probably only appeal to a smaller market (Buick lovers)_ and hopefully done tastefully enough it may appeal to others as well. I am definitely going to be enjoying this one for awhile (lol I cannot believe I just said that)!!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I think maybe I gave you guys the wrong impression that I am trying to build a 50-100k car ...I am not trying to put that type of money into a car.

I appreciate all your feedback I am just wanting to build a nice streetable semi pro-touring car on a budget (I know pro-touring and budget SHOULD NOT go together in the same sentence LOL), I was jut trying to get opinions on BODY STYLE recommendations between the two cars.

Skylarks are the Chevelles of the Buick world, I guess I must be looking at it from a different point of view when it comes to 64-72 skylark especially when the suspension, brakes basically everything on the chassis is the same as the Chevelle down to the fuel tanks........I guess compared to some of the beginning projects that appear on this board where you see a RUSTED HULK of a shell and they have to buy ALL new sheet metal and have about 3-5k (MAYBE EVEN MORE) in sheet metal alone and compared to the body repairs of the 2 cars that I am dealing with I guess to me I consider myself lucky.

Again I realize that I will not get out what I have into the car but at the same time I realize that, so I am being realistic in which ever body I decide to go with ....again thanks for those that chimed in and offered up there thoughts.


It might help some of these guys trying to help you out if you layed out what your plans and expectations are for the car.

The 67 has a lot of money in metal work to be done. Alot of that metal will have to be fabricated or taken from a donor. That can get pricey.

I know you are doing most of the work yourself but time is money and the longer you take the more money will sit.

Parts cost money, are you gonna rebuild our current power plants? Are you going to upgrade?

In my eyes as a garage builder the 65 shows more potential. With less un-rust work and a nicer body.

As for resale and investment. Buick guys are funny like Mopar guys. It either has to be some numbers matching rarity or a balls out resto mod for those guys to get out of bed to drop some coin.

So what are you doing really?

[Radlark]

Vince the goal is to upgrade the suspension, brakes, interior and drivetrain. The car is going to be used as a semi-daily driver is going to have aftermarket AC all the creature comforts of a newer vehicle which I already have in the garage. As far as the drivetrain is concerned I have a 2005 5.3 with the transmission I'm still debating if I want to set the car upto do some auto crossing, right now the car main purpose is to just have a fun reliable car that I could hop in and drive to Vegas if I wanted to and not worry about it breaking down on me.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Vince the goal is to upgrade the suspension, brakes, interior and drivetrain. The car is going to be used as a semi-daily driver is going to have aftermarket AC all the creature comforts of a newer vehicle which I already have in the garage. As far as the drivetrain is concerned I have a 2005 5.3 with the transmission I'm still debating if I want to set the car upto do some auto crossing, right now the car main purpose is to just have a fun reliable car that I could hop in and drive to Vegas if I wanted to and not worry about it breaking down on me.

Ok well that clears it up..abit...

I see
5.3L with auto trans
Swap Oil pan
Mount kit
Engine Harness
PCM program
Air intake
Headers
front drive system
LS swap radiator
Hoses
Exhaust system
EFI fuel tank
Fuel pump
fuel sender
fuel lines
fittings
clamps
filter
regulator
Lokar shifter
driveshaft
trans cooler
hoses
fittings
Vintage air system
Dynamat
Gauge set
new front seats
carpet
headliner
dash pad recover
American autowire update kit
Kore3 C5 13" front and 12" rear brake kit
Manual Wilwood master
Wilwood prop valve
Right stuff brake plumbing
overhaul the rear end with 3:73 gears
fill and paint firewall
clean prep and paint frame
or powder coat frame
tubular front suspension
overhaul steering system
Delphi steering box
adjustable rear suspension
front and rear coil over kit
sway bars front and rear
18" wheels and tires
replace trunk
driver paint job
bedliner under carrige

[65_LS1_T56]

Wow, ^^^^ that sounds almost exactly like the parts list on my car!
I agree totally with Vince. Use that list to estimate. I like the 65 better also, but I'm biased :D

[Evan Iroc-Z]

I love reading this site. The builds are amazing. However, coming from a very different income bracket than most, I take a very different approach. You could easily get away with $20-30K into this car and come out with a nice ride. You could roll with factory manifolds to save hundreds, make your own harness for next to nothing, if motor is going to be stock use a factory Y or F body pump, use the factory truck accessories and remount the alternator to fit under the hood (you may need a 2008+ truck water pump for the relocated inlet), use a Y body filter for a cheap returnless system. That gets you a complete running engine for a couple of thousand and since you own the 5.3 already you are way ahead.

I personally really like the '65 and think you should use that one.

[GregWeld]

I love reading this site. The builds are amazing. However, coming from a very different income bracket than most, I take a very different approach. You could easily get away with $20-30K into this car and come out with a nice ride. You could roll with factory manifolds to save hundreds, make your own harness for next to nothing, if motor is going to be stock use a factory Y or F body pump, use the factory truck accessories and remount the alternator to fit under the hood (you may need a 2008+ truck water pump for the relocated inlet), use a Y body filter for a cheap returnless system. That gets you a complete running engine for a couple of thousand and since you own the 5.3 already you are way ahead.

I personally really like the '65 and think you should use that one.




Driver quality paint and a stock "Legends" or similar interior just ate half that number.... you've yet to buy tires and wheels - A/C and on and on. Unrealistic number crunching is why these projects sit on jack stands for years.

Let's use your 30K number.... that's 30 MONTHS (2 and a half years) of spending or saving $1,000 per month.... net after taxes. That's with no hiccups. More like $500 a month for 60 months -- which is FIVE YEARS of labor and savings/spending.

People always underestimate the actual costs of building projects. They never count on the gas tank needing to be replaced -- oh doing EFI?? There's a pump and sump tank... There's just so many "little" items that nobody counts on...

[ironworks]

If your getting both Cars for near nothing, Why not figure out where your biggest value in those cars will be ( maybe just cleaned up and ready to sell or fix the rust and pedal them ). Clean em up and sell them both. Take that cash and roll it into something more desirable. Todd is right at some point you will sell the car. No sense taking a bath on it because it is a Buick and not a Chevelle. The after market parts following for a Chevelle is 10 times that of a Buick. That lessens your build cost right there.

The only way to make these 2 cars make some kind of sense is to do every single thing your self and not put any value on your labor into the cars. Cuz they might be worth a the value of just the parts when your done.

[GregWeld]

Quote him a "driver quality" paint job.....







If your getting both Cars for near nothing, Why not figure out where your biggest value in those cars will be ( maybe just cleaned up and ready to sell or fix the rust and pedal them ). Clean em up and sell them both. Take that cash and roll it into something more desirable. Todd is right at some point you will sell the car. No sense taking a bath on it because it is a Buick and not a Chevelle. The after market parts following for a Chevelle is 10 times that of a Buick. That lessens your build cost right there.

The only way to make these 2 cars make some kind of sense is to do every single thing your self and not put any value on your labor into the cars. Cuz they might be worth a the value of just the parts when your done.

[buickfunnycar.com]

Having grown up as a kid around Buicks,I can tell you it takes one to know one...they're sleepers and the Buick family is fiercely loyal...so many here wouldn't understand.

1965 was the start but by '67,they really were something special and while they may not bring Chevelle money...dare to be different I always say!

You could always save your coins and go this route...:hairpullout:
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p3/topfueljohn/DSC06665_zps1b674313.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p3/topfueljohn/DSC06667_zpscd1e189c.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p3/topfueljohn/DSC06669_zpsb1d93b9d.jpg

[OLDFLM]

You could skip the 5.3 and put the 67 drivetrain in the 65 to get the running/driving goal out of the way first. Do a Hotchkis TVS and go with KORE3 13"/12" C5/C6 brakes... you may even be able to clear those brakes with some 18" steel ralley style wheels on the cheap... or better yet, the monies saved by using the 67 drivetrain could set you up with a nice set of wheels like Jason Rushforth has on his car... search for "Project Wheels and Stance"!

This route would get the car running & driving so you can enjoy it while you do other upgrades... gather all the pieces for the LS swap if that's what your heart is set on... all the while keeping the fun factor up and the down time low so that you don't grow tired/weary/embarrassed of the "project car on jack stands" in the garage and can actually enjoy this thing we call a hobby.

:soapbox: :beathorse

[ironworks]

Quote him a "driver quality" paint job.....

Well all our paint work starts at 20k. The term "Driver Quality" is kind of subjective. Wes Rydell drives his Ridler winning Grand Master in the rain.

You just have to decide what you don't want. If you want to dare to be different, go right ahead, so really great cars have been done with off the wall body styles. But you just need to know where you might end up. I'm the president of the dare to be different club, I build the only tube chassis transaxle pickup truck in existence when I did it like 8 years ago. I got a ton of press for my business and sold it at a huge loss. No matter what you do a truck will never sell for what a camaro will. It's just a fact.

[Twoblackmarks...]

Fix both! :D I would much rather have an Buick than an Chevelle, but that is because I think it looks cooler. Even though Chevelles also look nice though... Hmm..

One of them looks a bit easier to finish though..

I would keep it "cheap" and run Wide Buick or other Rallies, LOW, and of course Buick powered. :)

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Well all our paint work starts at 20k. The term "Driver Quality" is kind of subjective. Wes Rydell drives his Ridler winning Grand Master in the rain.



exactly, my understanding of driver quality would be what you guys call a 10 footer. $6000 Maaco spray and pray.

[preston]

Wow what ever happened to building cars for fun ? Maybe i missed it in the OP, but I didn't see where resale was his motivation. I feel if you are building a budget limited driver type car, odd body styles are more appealing (I also recommend the '65, it looks way more vintage and muscle).
I never worried about eventual cost and resale and such when I started, I just enjoyed every step of the way.

Drive it around a little bit, look at in the parking lot from different angles,and if you like it, build it.

[Radlark]

Wow what ever happened to building cars for fun ? Maybe i missed it in the OP, but I didn't see where resale was his motivation. I feel if you are building a budget limited driver type car, odd body styles are more appealing (I also recommend the '65, it looks way more vintage and muscle).
I never worried about eventual cost and resale and such when I started, I just enjoyed every step of the way.

Drive it around a little bit, look at in the parking lot from different angles,and if you like it, build it.

Preston thanks that's exactly what I was shooting for lol, I think I'm going to sell the 65 and build the 67! I appreciate all who chimed in again, I like the body of the 67 more than the 65.

[Ron in SoCal]

I like Preston's logic. :thumbsup:

If budget is an issue, I think you forego the LS route, get some C5 brakes and a power booster for less than a grand. Keep your eyes peeled for some take off or resale wheels and suspension, do all the work yourself and waa-laa you're running.

The only hole in that plan is the starting point. You're gonna invest some money no matter what you build, so sell the two and find another, better starting point so you're not stuck in sheetmetal hell.

Good luck whatever you do!

[Vegas69]

Do what you want just like you planned from the start. :tv_happy:

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Preston thanks that's exactly what I was shooting for lol, I think I'm going to sell the 65 and build the 67! I appreciate all who chimed in again, I like the body of the 67 more than the 65.

Noted for future reference when you are looking for a roof panel and rear inner structure. :hairpullout:

[Flash68]

Do what you want just like you planned from the start. :tv_happy:

Truth. We've all been there.

[Evan Iroc-Z]

Driver quality paint and a stock "Legends" or similar interior just ate half that number.... you've yet to buy tires and wheels - A/C and on and on. Unrealistic number crunching is why these projects sit on jack stands for years.

Let's use your 30K number.... that's 30 MONTHS (2 and a half years) of spending or saving $1,000 per month.... net after taxes. That's with no hiccups. More like $500 a month for 60 months -- which is FIVE YEARS of labor and savings/spending.

People always underestimate the actual costs of building projects. They never count on the gas tank needing to be replaced -- oh doing EFI?? There's a pump and sump tank... There's just so many "little" items that nobody counts on...

I get what you are saying. I have always created a budget and doubled it because of whileImatititis. I guess the true question goes to the OP. Do you want the car running and driving or do you want the car completely finished and running and driving.

I guess my point is, I have never had the money to go buy all brand new items, so I bargain shop like crazy. If you go all new then yes my numbers are WAY off, but he doesn't need to spend $100K to build this car.

[GregWeld]

I was trying to be realistic for he OP..... because MOST people can't write a check for 10 grand let alone 100.... And MOST people tear into a car before they really sit down and figure out the TRUE amount of work/tools/hours/costs really are.

Maybe - maybe - the OP will take another look - put pencil to paper... bust out a calculator... and then will, or maybe won't, start down this slippery slope. My comments are to get someone THINKING.

[Vegas69]

When I think budget build, it consists of buying a running car that has usable parts and a driver paint job already. It needs tweaked to your liking. Not only is this the most economical route, it keeps you on the road.

[buickfunnycar.com]

I like the body of the 67 more than the 65...

No argument there from me...:relax:

[DBasher]

What I've learned is to start off with the best you can afford and build on it from that point. The two cars posted would need to be damn near free for me to want to move forward. Not that they're junk, it's just with the amount of work they need it wouldn't make sense for me. I don't like rust.

A quick search in the local classifieds shows a few 65-67's that are decent driver quality for $3500-7000....that's about what it'll cost to rebuild a motor/transmission.

The good thing about these cars are they are cheap with low resale value. If you can't find patch panels chances are you can find a complete car for next to nothing and cut it up.

:thumbsup:

[Radlark]

Luckily the 67 has a nice running motor compared to the 65 which the car starts and runs but it smokes.

Greg I greatly appreciate you for "keeping it real"!

As I tore more into the 67 the repair work is not going to be that difficult I found a guy parting out a 67 so I will be scavenging off of that. I am not too concerned about the paint at the moment my focus will be:

1. Ensure the motor and trans reliability
2. Make it safe to drive brakes (finding a nice set of rollers while I am at it), steering , stopping (giving tobin a call) electrical (that is my specialty)
3. Repair body
4. Repair Trunk
5. Drive it
6. SELL THE 65 SKYLARK
6. Start upgrading to the good stuff slowly I already have parts in my garage that I have been collecting for the past year.

Again I truly appreciate all that chimed in and offered up there advice/opinions!!!